While it's a rather old article . Pretty sure many Vietnamese do not think much about the Russian perspective which can end up being like this .




The committee for liquidation started working at the former Russian base Cam Ranh in Vietnam. The rich inheritance of the Soviet Union is going to be handed over to Vietnam: the docking area, the houses, the electric power plant, an airbase, and even a bath house. The committee will determine which property can be ?saved from Vietnamese possession.¦ Two storm-boats are reserved to carry the army equipment to Vladivostok.

This rich gift springs from Russia's money, or the absence of it, to be more precise. Hanoi requested that Moscow pay the annual rent of $200 million for Cam Ranh. The Russian leadership made the decision to shut the base down ahead of the scheduled time. What can Russia do? Vietnam learned how to count money, especially bucks.

However, the Americans have the possibility not to count them. Admiral Dennis Blair, Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Pacific Command visited Vietnam in February. Americans offered to render material and technical assistance in exchange for use of the airbase. The rich Pentagon is ready to pay for its second coming to Vietnam: five or six thousand dollars for each takeoff and landing, up to $15 thousand for anchorage. Uncle Sam can buy everything.

Andrey Mikhailov PRAVDA.Ru

Translated by Dmitry Sudakov http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/06/05/29798.html



Russia left Cam Ranh for nowhere


The ferryboat Sakhalin-9 arrived at the Vietnamese port of Cam Ranh on April 24. The boat will carry equipment that was dismantled from the former Russian base to the city of Vladivostok.

Cam Ranh was built by Americans in the middle of the 1960s. The base in Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam, was used by the Pentagon to bomb the territories that were controlled by Vietnamese guerrillas. American President Lyndon B. Johnson visited the base and stated that the stars and stripes would blow in the wind there forever. B-52 bomber planes used to take off from that base during the period of the war in Vietnam.

Cam Ranh was the base where Americans started their experiments with dolphins, using the animals to destroy enemy ships and divers. America released the information later, and it became known that trained dolphins killed up to 60 Vietnamese divers that were trying to blow up American vessels. It is interesting that the US Congress gave permission to the US Navy to catch 25 dolphins and sealions for national defense purposes, in spite of the fact that such hunting was prohibited.

After the war in Vietnam was over, and after American troops were withdrawn from South Vietnam, Moscow hoped that Hanoi would rent the base to the USSR. Moscow was longing to have the Soviet naval fleet on the shores of Vietnam in order to change the correlation of forces in the Pacific military theatre and undermine the American monopoly with its bases in the Philippines, Japan, and South Korea. However, Vietnam did not rush to help the USSR.

Vietnam agreed to hand Cam Ranh over to Moscow due to China, which decided to teach Hanoi a lesson in 1979 for overthrowing Beijing’s protégé Pol Pot in Cambodia. The Chinese army crossed the Vietnamese border on February 17 and reached Vietnam-s capital in a month's time.

The Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union held an urgent session, at which it was decided to send a special envoy to Beijing with an ultimatum to the “Chinese supremacists.”

While the Chinese army was attacking Vietnamese trenches, units of the Soviet army were conducting “a psychological attack” on the border between the USSR and China, and vessels of the Pacific fleet were heading to the Yellow and South China Seas. Beijing understood everything at once, and Chinese troops were quickly withdrawn from Vietnam.

The governments of the USSR and Vietnam signed the agreement on the use of Cam Ranh base. The document was signed on May 2, 1979, and it actually stipulated the free use of the base for the period of 25 years. The base experienced its triumph during the Cold War era.

After the USSR collapsed, Russia did not care much about the base. Russia has not used Cam Ranh for several years, and the question vanished gradually by itself. A part of its territories was given back to Vietnam, and the Russian personnel made up some 40 people. The base was turning into some kind of forgotten civilization, which was slowly drowning in the jungle.

The ships of the Pacific navy entered the base once every several months. However, the question was who was the enemy in South East Asia, or was there an enemy at all? Cam Ranh was waiting for political and strategic decisions: what should be done, and for which war should it be prepared? The rent agreement was to expire in the year 2004, and the decision was supposed to be made two or three years before that date.

At first, Vladimir Putin was thinking of prolonging the time of the rent, but the events of September 11th crossed those plans out for good. The Russian leadership decided to sacrifice the base due to the considerations of the moment. Americans nodded, but they did not make any concessions to Russia in return. What could Russia do after that? Nothing, just shut the base down.

Russian military men all said that the base was a burden for the budget and that it was a Cold War relic, which it was not good for executing the geo-strategic goals of the army. These are all lies, as well as the statements that said that Russia would always be able to get the base back.

Washington and Beijing have their eyes on the base already. Russia has to have enough courage to say that it is leaving the Pacific region forever.

Dmitry Chirkin PRAVDA.Ru

Translated by Dmitry Sudakov http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28156.html



What do Russia and Vietnam want from each other?


Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Kasyanov continues his tour of Asian countries. After visiting Mongolia, he set off for Vietnam on March 26. Both states used to be Moscow’s close allies in the Soviet era. Mongolia was even called “the sixteenth Soviet republic." When Leonid Brezhnev was at the head of the Soviet government, a project for addition of Mongolia to the Soviet Union was developed. The project was about to be implemented, but at the very last moment, it was decided to give it up.

The Soviet Union managed to establish close contacts with Vietnam during the war between the South Asian state and the USA. Soviet weapons helped Vietnam achieve victory. When the war was over, the relations between the two states were still close.

After the breakup of the USSR, political and economic relations with Vietnam and Mongolia practically came to naught. As a result, the economies of both states, which were very dependent on the Soviet Union, faced a severe crisis. They had to start reforms in the economic sphere, and, first of all, they had to re-oriented themselves towards commercial partners from other countries.

Russia and these two Asian states have increased their contacts within two last years. Last year’s visits of President Vladimir Putin to Mongolia and Vietnam have considerably contributed to these new relations. Russia wrote off a great part of Mongolian and Vietnamese debts to the USSR, which is said to be the main result of the visits.

Vietnam’s debt to the Soviet Union made up $11 billion, and the majority of it was written off during Vladimir Putin’s visit to the country. In fact, Hanoi will have to pay only a quarter of the sum in the next twenty years. The majority of the payments will be done in consumer goods.

Until recently, the Soviet Union, and later Russia, have been renting Vietnam’s Navy base in Cam Ranh. However, the base has been practically idle over the last ten years. Finally, the lease was surrendered in October of 2001. The lack of financing for the base management was mentioned as the main reason to give it up. At once, information appeared that the base may be held on lease by the USA. Vietnamese authorities rejected the idea at once and said the base would not be given on lease at all.

No official date for withdrawal of the Russian staff from the base in Cam Ranh had been announced before Mikhail Kasyanov’s visit to Vietnam. On the visit’s eve, head of the Russian Navy central headquarters Admiral Viktor Kravchenko said that Russia would hand the base over to Vietnam by July 1, 2002.

Russian arms supplies to Vietnam are another important subject to be discussed during the coming talks. Russian politicians always touch upon the subject during their visits to the Asian countries. It is quite natural, as the Asiatic market is the most attractive for Russia. One more question arises here: how is Vietnam going to pay for the arms supplies?

Several ways can be suggested. It would be possible to expand cooperation between the countries in the spheres of power and oil-and-gas industries. Cooperation in these spheres was also discussed during Mikhail Kasyanov’s visit to Mongolia. Russia is ready to discuss the construction of an oil pipeline via Mongolia’s territory to China. If the project is a success, all participants will greatly benefit.

Despite the fact that many projects in the oil-and-gas sphere were created in Vietnam, no oil refinery has been constructed yet. The explanation is easy: lack of financing. Mikhail Kasyanov’s visit to Mongolia is believed to have solved the problem.

Thus, the key spheres for Russian-Vietnamese cooperation are the following: the oil-and-gas industry, arms supplies to Vietnam, and consumer goods from Vietnam to Russia. Commercial relations between the two countries will not concern only the mentioned spheres, as several joint enterprises in the spheres of chemical industry, construction, etc. have already been created.

Russia and Vietnam have considerable potential to be actively developed. Special attention will be paid to development of economic and not political contacts. Such is the requirement of the time.

Oleg Artyukov PRAVDA.Ru

Translated by Maria Gousseva http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/03/26/27188.html
Read the original in Russian: http://pravda.ru/main/2002/03/26/38815.html

Vietnam needs to hurry up with its prolonged refinery's in her spratly territory. As for Cam Ranh, lease it to America, and pressure China into giving some of our territory back.

Lani, thanks for the article.

In the near future, Vietnam will lease the Cam Ranh Bay to the US.

What the fu-k is wrong with you ba que wanting the damned American troops on Viet Nam's soil? On the other hand, they make nice moving target with their big frame. Don't you ba que forget that they abandoned you once? You guys are like a needy girl who keeps coming back to the same abusive boyfriend again and again... and again.

Why would Vietnam wants to be American's military b!tch. Both South Korean and Japanese can't stand American troops that much (many reports of rape, growth of prostitution etc.). The only way to deal with both China and USA is to balance their power of influence in Vietnam not tipping the balance to a particular nation.

Mr. Arun:

Calm down and take it easy.

Mr. Supernova:

You will be suprised to learn that Vietnam is one of the most pro-American countries in Southeast Asia.

^ And also, having the American troops on Vietnam's soil wil endanger the country's stability. Look at what happened to countries who are tied to US militarily ? They are hated by Middle East countries for being American's lap dogs. The next thing you see is terrorist bomings in Vietnam

We're pro-American dollars, technologies, entertainments, but not its ideologies. Show me one Vietnamese who supports the invasion of Iraq and the rapes and murders of its citizens! Remember that ba que do not count as Vietnamese.

SoCal, the best thing to do is turning Cam Ranh Bay into an industrial zone like the Subic Bay of the Philippines. I don't know why Vietnam chooses Dung Quat over Cam Ranh. With deep water port, air port and other infracstructures already in place, we don't need to invest a lot of money.

No any foreign troops in Vietnam though, don't we learn any history yet? They always bring in troubles and unstable in the region. Viet nam still poor but strong enough to stand alone by itself. The future is ECONOMY, we must be good on that.

Even if Vietnam leases the Cam Ranh Bay to the U.S for $300 millions a year, that's puny little money.
What can we get with $300 millions? 300 T-72 tanks or 7 SU-30MKs or 1 frigate or 1 S300 system; the benefits will not justify what we could potential lose for doing this kind of deal.

3 billions a year? Yeah, the communists will definitely think about it

I'd say that the fact that there are no American troops stationed in Vietnam - that fact allows us to focus on a strongly positive view of America, what America has to offer and what America and us have in common. I believe that the presence of American troops in Vietnam could color our relationship in a negative way, unless the government is successful in making it clear to our people that these troops are in Vietnam under conditions specified by the government and that any misbehavior by American troops comes under the jurisdiiction of the Vietnamese courts. And even then, there still will be Vietnamese who won't be happy about the whole concept of American troops stationed in Vietnam.

This is one of the reasons why I respect the South Vietnamese military (ARVN). During the war, firefight between South Vietnamese military police and American GIs occured on a daily basis arising from the retarded attitude of the American. South Vietnamese soldiers often beat or shot to dead American GIs in broad daylight or pulled American GIs over and physically slaped them across the face if they failed to salute South Vietnamese military officers. I can't say about the rest of American's allies for having the courage to beat, shot, slap American soldiers like South Vietnamese soldiers used to do

never heard of this before. and i doubt it happened. you cant kill a soldier for not salluting an officer.
some Vietnamese are full of bs when telling stories, especially about the Vietnam war.

but yeah. i agree about leasing Cam Ranh to the Americans.

It did happen a lot. My parents and relatives who have lived through the war told me that. I also heard it from many Vietnamese about these kind of things between the U.S and South Vietnamese military. There were many many things about the Vietnam War that you don't be able to know to find out about, especially on the History Channel or American academic sources.

there might be some fighting exchanges between the SVN soldiers and the Americans; but i dont think the SVN soldiers would dare to shoot an American just because that American didnt sallute a SVN officer.

Not shoot but slap.

Werd.

And what is the price tag should be?

for 2 reasons

regional stability and
defense

Vietnam let the Americans do the defense of the East Sea, while we concentrate our efforts in the economy. yet, at the same time, tau will take a different stance in SEA.

^^ haha so you want us to be like japan?

http://e.a.cnn.net/WORLD/9603/okinawa_rape/index.html

That's the price for being an American dog

national security and economic growth, or little girls? you choose.

The Japanese are smart though, they put American troops in Okinawa, not a historically Japanese land and people


I choose balancing Chinese and American influence, not letting any of these countries has an upper hand in Vietnam's soil. I choose to let Vietnamese people have our own dignity. I choose NEVER to put ANY foreign troops in Vietnam's soil, not Chinese, not American, not anybody except for Vietnamese.

Oh man! Even the most fervent ba que wouldn't say that. Stop calling yourself Vietnamese because you have lost your roots.

isn't it better than to sell our women and children to the brothels of the bastards in dai` loan, tau`, va` nuoc' cho' han`? with an economy like Japan, the majority of Vietnamese will not have to endure the beating and selling of themselves by other foreigners.

We have been through this lame argument before. There will always be forced prostitution of some kind no matter how powerful the economy is. Look at your own country, the United States, for a change. There are plenty of hookers around to choose from, some disguised as escort service, which is legal. Children are being kidnapped and forced to be sex slaves to pedophiles in "the greatest country on earth" called America. In fact, there was a study out a few months ago that points to the US as the biggest source of kiddie porn IN THE WHOLE WORLD. If you fail to see any of that, then you need glasses, or a new brain and while you're at it, new white skin.

If the US goes back to Vietnam.Wont it give legitamcy to the current regime.If that happens then it gives illegetimacy to the whole US involvement in the Vietnam war.What happens next GW Bush declares he was right in not going to 'Nam way back in '68.Does the US appologise to the GIs for sending them to fight against a communist regime that running the country now.Is Jane Fonda right?Or says that the election of 1956 should have gone ahead.
I think there will have to be some democratic changes to happen first,even window dressing cahnges, for the US to go back just to avoid the difficult questions.

I would not want to lease it to the US, and I would not want any foreign soldier in our land. It would just make us one step closer to becoming an American dog.

you're pretty lame for making personal insults.

What's weird? I would be uncomfortable with the concept of American troops stationed in Vietnam, unless the rules of interaction make clear that we are masters in our own house. On the other hand, some Vietnamese would be uncomfortable with any foreign troops stationed in Vietnam as a matter of principle, and I can easily understand the point of view of these Vietnamese.

Japan represents Northeast Asia to contain China.

Vietnam represents Southeast Asia to contain China.

You may not like the idea but it is the reality that Vietnam has to face.

The United States will help to maintain this fragile balance.

BTW why do you need to contain China? is it a kind of disease?

If the PRC doesn't throw its (huge) weight around, then we don't need to contain the PRC.

It is natural to balance the growing power of China.

This natural state is similar to the government in the United States. We have the three branches (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial) to balance each other's power.

isn't almost all southeast asian nations are pro-america, why does vietnam needs to lease Cam ranh

Mr. Arun:

Your continous name calling of many Viet Kieus abroad as "Ba Que" is not conducive to national building and reconciliation. I request you to stop this uncivilized behavior.

Dung Quat at bottom of webpage

Will it be reserved mainly for industrial development & economic purposes only ? We'll see ...
what many including the Chinese ? believe to be the best and most beautiful deep water port facility in the entire world

First it would be great if US stations there which may deters the Chinese from engage in any conflict at Spratly Island.

But I rather have it turn into a capital seaport for Vietnam and possibly ASEAN.

Considering the fact that China is a bigger market for US goods, I really doubt Vietnam can depend on the US to help them at the cost of losing business in China.

My rule is to never depend on another nation for your security, South Vietnam got majorly screwed when the US abandoned them and they didn't have the experience to fight against North Vietnam alone because they depended too much on the US to do it for them.

Vietnam also got screwed when Soviet Union stopped giving aid after the cold war was over.

So basically never depend on anyone for anything, as the climate might change and your "friend" might abandon you and you would totally get screwed if you depended on him totally for your needs.

Keep Cam Ranh as a port for the Gulf of Thailand region and make money and use that industry knowledge you get from that to make your own defense without relying on another country.

I want to add to the list:

Russia and India and the growing ASEAN. Specifically China is fast growing and already on its way to be an influential force in Asia. However geographically speaking, China doesn't have the advantage like the U.S to be one ocean away from most powerfull countries. Russia is in a slump right now but there would be a time when they wake up. Also, India is fast growing. One wrong foreign policy from Bejing could result in many angry neighbors from left and right, top and bottom.

China should be the last thing that VietNam should be worry for now. Border issue and conflct always exist between countries. As long as VietNam does't give ground on the politic talk table then the tension would remai the same and war wouldn't likely to happen.

Where in Asia can a country that is on good side of both North and South Korea, and China and Japan

Request denied. Ba que is the official term used in Viet Nam to designate ba que flag lovers. So you see, it is purely used for the purpose of recognition, not insult.

I don't find it amusing that both sides, including you, call each other names and impede the progress of Vietnam. I reject this kind of uncivil action.

Vietnam had expanded southwards since the 17th Century :
" Hoành Sơn nhất đái , vạn đại dung thân " .
The uneducated red flag wavers , most of them are ... , had taken everything for granted .

Why did you have to be name calling people?

Because they are learning how to speak English now from French , Russian ...
And yet they did not even take time to think about Viet history from China 's " Vô độc bất trượng phu , hảo tâm phi quân tử " .

Hypocrite! You can't even name who the ba que are. Let me give you a hand: the old man who loves quoting Chinese in here. Even the other ba que wouldn't go near him. Would you consider him ba que? .

Arun:

I offer you my constructive comments to help you become better.

You take it easy and think of ways to unite Vietnamese at home and around the world.

Don't be a HATER.

SoCal beating around the bush as usual. Would you consider LaniKai a ba que? Hell, even he considers himself ba que but you wouldn't. . Let me see who else is ba que! Help me out, SoCal!

How dare you : I am an American !
{ Death better than Reds }