On the eve of the new round of negotiations on the Kurile Islands ownership, the Japanese are conducting wild propagandist campaign in the Russian-language Internet.
Recently the following information appeared on the animation website, "Don"t mix the Northern and Central Kuriles and another group of the islands - the Southern Kuriles. The Northern Kuriles were a part of Russian Empire until 1847, and then they were given to Japan, but the Southern Kuriles have always been owned only by one state - Japan. The four islands of the Southern Kuriles are the sticking point of Russian-Japanese relations (Shikotan, Kunashir, Iturup and Khabomai range), until 1947 the islands were always owned by Japan. By the way, the Japanese Naval base from where the Japanese squadron went to bomb Pearl Harbor, was located in Iturup island".

Meanwhile, Russian political elite seems to be inclined to sell the Kuriles "in exchange of peace". According to Gazeta.ru, "Head of State Duma Committee on International Relations Dmitry Rogozin estimated the Kureles at $2.5 trillion".

According to the Institute of Fishery located in Kamchatka region, warm flow Kurosio and cold flow Oyasio bring enormous quantity of biomass to the Southern Kuriles. This biomass in the form of fish was taken by Russian fishing boat from all the regions of the Far East. This fish helped Communists to avoid regime collapse much earlier than in 1991. There was no threat of famine when tins of the Kuriles fish were in stock of all Russian food-stores. And the source of fish created by the sea flows, is eternal. And it would be stupid to kill the hen laying gold eggs.

The negotiantions on the destiny of this "hen" started in 1991. At that time, Soviet Foreign Minister Eduard Shevarnadze gave the shelf of the Bering Sea to Americans. Salmon migrates along the shelf to Eastern Kamchatka. If Japanese put several kilometers of nets in the Southern Kuriles, Kamchatka will have no fish. In addition, if Russia gives up the Southern Kuriles, the Okhotsk Sea will gain the status of international sea, and foreigners will claim its rich fish resources as well.

By the way, the Kuriles were not always owned by Japan. Several years before the Russo-Japanese war, Russians exchanged them to the half of Sakhalin island. Today the islands are important because this are is rich of oil.

Meanwhile, in the neighboring Khabarovsk region, Damansky island and the Tumannaya river were given away to China.
Today the Chinese are going to construct super-port Tumangan near the border between Russia and North Korea. The port is going to surpass Rusian seaports Vladivostok and Nakhodka in the Pacific. Allowing foreign Navy and in Okhotsk Sea will mean having foreign military presence in your own territory.

Surprisingly, we are fighting in Chechnya where there are no Russians left, and oil reserves have been exhausted, but the big areas rich of oil and fish can be given away for nothing.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/88/354/12879_Kuriles.html

Estimated 2.5 Trillion Dollars for the Kurils?! That's ridiculous. Russians are gonna have a field day trying to 'sell' these. If Japanese consider this a proposal theyre way off. That number is a tease even if it's cut down to half that. Is this how Russia expects to jump start their economy and pay for debts by attempting to selling off small disputed islands for astronomical prices? heh.

I think this is only the starting price. I dont think japan will pay all that money. Atleast I hope not.

LOL....even half that amount for a few tiny southern kurile islands. I would believe that Japan could afford a 1 trillion and some amount over a long period of time, but do the benefiits outweigh the sheer cost for these tiny islands? for me, i believe not and also the act of paying for something shows that you gave up and acknowledged Russia's ownership of the southern kuriles. shows what was all the fuss about for the past 50 or so years when in the end money talks.

At least something is on the table.

umm im confused......so is it the whole kuril archipelago to be sold?

and does japan want Sakhalin as welil?

wow im interested to learn more about that part where it says



i was not aware of such a concept.

Well I want the islands back. No one else will buy the islands for this obscene amount if japan doesnt. The russians WILL lower the price if they really want to sell it off.

The entire Kurile Archipelago?? Hell no! Sakhalin?! Hell no! Only the Southern Kuriles which are claimed by Japan. There are two major islands and a few more smaller ones right off the northeastern coast of Hokkaido. Very small islands indeed, i dont know how Japan will benefit much from those if they end up paying for em.

Russia does have a lot of useless land.

Economically, there's really not much benefit to having the Kurile Islands. It's so far up north and the climate is very cold. Much of the time the water is half frozen so ships can't really travel there either.

I agree with CJK's statement. Russia is still an unstable country, politically and economically. This is just a ploy to try to jump start their economy and show the world that they have the ability to trick stupid nations into paying obscene amounts of money for worthless crap.

BUT, for Japan, getting the Kurile Islands is a symbolic thing. It shows the world that Japan was right in wanting to get the islands back. The people there want to be part of Japan again. And Japan is willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a crappy piece of land to get those people back. Fifty years have passed since WWII and its time all the wrongs are righted.

Good. Though Russia is doing this for its own unstable reasons, the Southern Kuriles were as Japanese as Honshu or kyushu were. Not like Okinawa or Sakhalin, these were part of Hokkaido. The Central and Northern Kuriles were Russian territory. But the Kurile people want to be under Japanese government control again.

Geez, youre a real imperialist arent you. First of all the Southern Kuriles arent Japanese so quit comparing it to Honshu. Okinawa/Sakhalin? Again these were islands that were taken thru violence and greed and how cn okinawa be a part of Hokkaido; it's bloody like a couple thousands miles away. The Kurile people want to be under Japanese control?? Again...theres just too much wishful thinking on these forums.

And you're quite the anti-Japanese nationalist aren't you? Stop labeling people.

The Southern Kuriles were never Russian. They were part of Hokkaido and were taken through war in 1945. I said the Kuriles are not like Sakhalin and Okinawa, read carefully, you've gotta learn that. I said the Kuriles were not taken through war, they were part of historical Japan.

Want me to gain six pages of proof like I did with Takeshima or do you prefer to not?

I'll do it anyway, cause I feel like it.

Kurile 1

Told from Russian view, even this shows Japanese colonization and ownership of Kuriles and how the Russians took it in the 1800s and 1700s. - Kurile 2

Kurile 3

There you go. Need more? Just let me know and I will get more sites and ask my proffessors for you.

And don't ever disrespect me or moderately insult me again without having proof that I'm wrong, all right?

These are indeed japan islands. They should either be returned to japan or given their independence. Either way will suffice for me.



They are japanese people... I am not sure exactly what their desire is however.

Yes, feed me more manipulative drivel. Send me sites about Japan's short time of tok-do/takeshima history.

Yeah, tell me about how the southern kuriles were once Japan's.

Southern Kuriles belong to Russia, Diao Yu Tai belongs to China, Tok-do belongs to Korea.

The southern kuriles may have belonged to Japan, but thats what happens when you create huge headaches of war. Things change whether you like it or not according to the victor.

There are no Japanese on the Khuriles whatsoever that want to be part of Japan. Reason why is the Soviets expelled them all from the island in 1945.

As for returning the southern Khuriles to Japan, it really isn't that big of a deal since the land is fairly insignificant. The only thing people factor in is fishing rights. (There is not actually any oil there, or at least no one has started any drilling project)

The Helsinki Final Accords during the 70's in Europe essentially solidified the boundaries of the present day states. Including a large chunk of eastern Germany that was absorbed into Poland. Following a large chunk of eastern Poland absorbed by the Soviet Union. That was far more unfair than the loss of a few two bit islands and millions of Germans were expelled from the territory. Yet no one really complains about it now, not even the Germans since the issue was settled in Finland.

The problem was, there was no such agreement in Asia following the end of the second world war to clearly demarcate territories and boundaries. Which is why you have arguements over Tokdo, Diaoyu, Spratleys, and Khuriles, and a bunch of others.

The Soviets did expell many Japanese from the islands in 1945. But I have seen and read about Russified Japanese living on the Southern Kuriles. They do not belong to Russia. Even after I gave you a Russian site that proved we were right, are you people too stubborn to realise that?

Too stubborn for what? I didn't say the Khuriles didn't belong to Japan. All I wrote was that it is wrong to say the people of the Khuriles want to return to Japan now since most of them are Russians who arrived after 1945.

Buddy, my parents are from fu-cking Yuzhno-sakhalinsk, Sakhalin Island, Russia...dont talk on behalf of displaced peoples....who do you think brought all this disarray? Who cares if there are Japanese-Russians.....im sure theyre doing fine like all the displaced koreans all over asia and russia. Who are you to say that they dont belong there; it's home for them. Im sure they have more allegiance to their adopted country rather than Japan. Im sure there arent even that many; im sure indigenous Ainu outnumber them.

When you try to argue something you need to know both sides and not just read the claims on the side you favour.

GOOD BYE. Dont believe everything you read!

ComradeJing, wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the CJK dude.

CJK -

Relax. Don't cuss at your island. The Koreans have nothing to do with this. Though you are quite the Korean nationalist, they have nothing to do with Sakhalin. The Kuriles are JApanese. The Russians admit it. The Japanese say it. Its obvious. Not Sakhalin, or the north/central. the south.

The only people who think that the Kurile Islands should not belong to Japan are the old Soviets and nationalistic Koreans. Japanese and Russians both agree that Kurile Islands are Japan. My grandparents were born and raised on those islands. Everyone there is Japanese. What more evidence do you need?

I find this odd, but a looooooooooooong time ago, I read in the LA Times that the folks over those islands felt that Russia ain't giving a damn on them anymore...

Because koreans always have something to say in situations that do not even involve them.

Of course Russia doesn't care about these islands. They're are worthless. Only the old Soviets wanted them. The Soviets were strong proponents of the Southern Movement. They wanted "Mother Russia" to expand south to warmer climates. Japan was warmer, industrialized, and surrounded by water (so good for building a massive navy). But now that the Soviets are gone, there's really no need for the Kuriles. But Koreans and the Chinese will do anything in their power to make the Japanese miserable.

Okay Ogumo, that was a good generalization about Koreans: Because koreans always have something to say in situations that do not even involve them.


Yeah sure!

Did you ever think that price was set to be be that high so the Japan will refuse the offer and forget about those islands?

Russia is so broke, desperate and broken down that it has been resorting to selling everything it has to survive (i.e., its weapons, nukes, women, everything.) Russian economy has been getting worse over the past decade, and there's no sign that it will get better anytime soon. Now that Russia is down, the US will make sure that Russia will never get up again. Japan just has to be patient and wait for Russia's situation to worsen. There will come a time when Russia's situation is complicated by a natural or man-made disaster. Then Russia will desperately need money. Then Russia will have to sell the islands at a bargain. Japan just has to wait for the advantage.

Yeah ok. I'm truly impressed by ur profound knowledge of Russia.

Welcome back barker, I thought you left for good after you lost that argument a while back.

Personally I think Japan has the moral high-ground in this territorial dispute with Russia since some of the evidence provided above are credible and true; Soviet Russia was indeed hell bent on invading Japan during the final days of WW2 until American occupation and reconstruction that were able to save Japan from the red tide. Japan, however, is more in the wrong regarding the two disputes with Korea and China. But hey, this topic's been debated to death so let's not go there for now.



Blunt statement from you, but what do i expect? I thought you were an able and respectable debate opponent until you started making outrageous statements that have holes all over them, and your so-called evidence is incredibly biased and you refused to review the information from other perspective. You claimed to be a historian, looking over "primary," secondary, tertiary, and so on sources. You have YET to tell us what and who your primaries are, and you only review subsequent sources that benefit to your biased view of history. And in addition to all that, your generalization is gradually turning into something despicable and annoying.

Look, that's true that Soviets were more intrested in those islands than Russian Federation, but if Russian would give up those islands it's not going to happen any time soon, and Russian President (Putin) can't just give it away because if he does, his already low ratings and Credibility will drop to nothing,,, and then no one can say what's going to happen. So the only solutions they found to at least put this issue off for some time is to set the outrageous price for those islands. I'm for one agree with that solution even though I think it's not going to go through but at least it will buy some time becasue Russian got enought on it's plate already.

i think russia is very well aware of who's their enemies or not, so that's why they're getting closer with china.

Yes you right, but I think Japan with their demnads of those islands is Russian least concern. On the last meeting btween chinese and russian leaders they came to the point that China will support Russia with Chechen problem and Russian will support China with Taiwan problem...

$2.5 trillion is a ridiculous amount. It's outrageous for four tiny islands. Doesn't Japan have a strong case arguing that the Northern Territories were "illegally" obtained by the Soviets after World War II (because of some behind-the-scenes deal the Russians had with the U.S. and the U.K.)?



So true 2 It happens with all kinds of races (esp. the U.S.), but it's pretty conspicuous with the Koreans.

The islands arent as high on my radar anymore. Japanese need to deal with much larger issues. However japan should never ease off of its claim.

Russia is selling everything, military weapons to CHina, islands to Japan. Loseing most of their land over 10 years ago, or selling them off to be independent.

Russia sounds weaker & weaker as years go by

I think this maybe a good time, for Ghengis Khan need to rise from his ashes again & re-conquer.

-

russia is okay la russian is just okay