http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh



Is it me or are Yellow flag wavers trying to ruin Vietnam's image?

I thought they believed in free speech but they protested and blocked the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization from exercising their free speech of marking Ho Chi Minh as a world hero.

Vietnamese in the Western World have freedom of speech and they are allowed to exercise them.

Viet Kieus can vote and have money.

So what? Vietnam has more money than the Viet Kieus. Why do you think the US is always screwing over the Viet Kieus just to trade with Vietnam?

What's a "world hero"? I can see why HCM would be viewed as a Vietnam hero but not a world hero.

fu-king outrageous!

Maybe the fact that he defeated the French which led to uprisings in other colonized countries which led to the end of colonization.

Even the UN recognizes him as a world hero and a fellow Vietnamese would have been one but no Yellow Flag Wavers had to ruin it.

heres goes another one of these threads

because they have the right to protest? in this case, he's not a world hero? they aren't making it bad for vietnam's image, HCM is bad for vietnam's image.



great job, kid. you compared a country with a group of people.

Are you sure?

Any relevant sources other than Wikipedia?
Nothing on the UNESCO website about this topic.
Are you suggesting that a group of Viet Kieus are stronger than the United Nation and dictate its actions.

I don't believe HCM can be credited for the end of worldwide colonialism. Worldwide colonialism ended for several reasons. First and foremost being the destruction of Europe during WW2. The European powers simply did not have the power to maintain these colonies after the war and the colonies took advantage of the situation. I also don't see how Vietnam could serve as an inspiration to other colonies given several former achieved their independence before Vietnam did.

Philippines - 1946
Burma - 1947
India - 1947
Indonesia - 1950
Vietnam - 1954

And I'm not sure Africans were looking to Vietnam for inspiration.



As the grandson of a Viet Minh soldier, I respect HCM as the man who kicked the French out of Vietnam and I think a lot of the hatred towards him on the part of "Yellow Flagies" is unwarranted. However, I don't view him as a "world hero" what ever that is. I'm not even sure that there are any "world heros".

LaiSteve66:

Your post above is wrong on all counts:

Dien Bien Phu, symbol for all time
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/20/024.html

As for the quality of the source, "Le Monde" is probably the most serious daily newspaper in France and is probably the French equivalent of the New York Times and the Washington Post here.

You are also confusing the Americans who gave the Philippines her independence with the British who gave India and Burma their independence with the French colonialists. Not all whites act alike, and the French colonialists were a particularly anal group who were hell bent on holding on to control in Vietnam whatever else happened elsewhere in the world. The Dutch were just as anal, but President Truman and the US Congress had made it very clear to the Dutch that any continuing attempt to restore Indonesia as a colony would cost the Dutch the total American cut-off of reconstruction aid including participation in the Marshall program.

The world sees Abraham Lincoln, Sir Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, Reverend Marther Luther King, JFK and Robert F. Kennedy as heroes. However nuanced my own view of the historical HCM is, much of the colonized and post-colonial world (and a large part of the West) saw HCM (and still sees) as a hero.

My post isn't wrong. Byron asserted that HCM might be responsible for the end of worldwide colonialism and I explained why he probably isn't. Everything you state is true but it's beside the point. There's no confusion. I already knew the circumstances of the aforementioned countries were entirely different.

How can ho chi minh be recongized as a world hero, or even a hero for Vietnam? What he did was push the French out of Vietnam by ordering others to do so. His thoughts of the freedom of Vietnam from french was a great thing but still what kind of Vietnamese wants a French to control their mother land? If you were to say Hoho is a hero than you should have to state that every Viet that believes in the freedom of Vietnam is hero. The ones you should consider are the men that fought against those French.

Secondally i will now state why he is no hero, but a hitler. Hoho beliefs in Vietnam is heroic but what he did was not. He took the land of wealthy farmers and instead of giving it to the poor, he gave it to the government. Those richest that were earn were taken by the government. So how does his belief in communism apply to what he did? What makes Hoho a hero if 2 million Vietnamese left their homeland for foreign land because of communism? What makes Hoho a hero if to this day you still see millions of Viets living in poverty? Look at the lives of those who live in farms or the ones living on the streets. Their is no respect in what he did. And actions speak much louder than words. The actions of Hoho should be judged of him, not the words he said. Vietnamese should never fight against Vietnamese, and no fuking Vietnamese should paise that, and paise the man that believed and started that.

The flag of 3 stripes waves in the heart of true Viets, and the flag of the star pierces that Viet heart into selfishness and stubborness.

Members of my own family joined the Viet-Minh to fight the French, so I don't give a damn about your sanctimonious "The ones you should consider are the men that fought against those French." VNCH propagandists like you prefer the kind of Vietnamese heroes who were not successful against the French, perhaps because these heroes are much "safer" for you than those who were successful.


That's an ignorant, jackass statement that is typical of VNCH propagandists. Hitler believed in a master race, and wrote in his book "Mein Kampf" that he considered Jews and Slavs subhumans, and that he was going to wipe out the Jews and enslave the Slavs. I don't recall HCM believing that Vietnamese are a master race or that ethnic and religious minorities should be wiped out. I don't think he ever made any Vietnamese salute him as "Heil Uncle Ho!", and I don't recall HCM as having ever been a megalomaniac.


Landlords working the land of their tenant farmers with their own hands? You are either ridiculous or pathetic.


If you can't see why HCM is viewed as a hero in much of the world, that's not my problem. I can't say that I am happy about his legacy, the VCP under Le Duan, and that his VCP had too many Maoists and Stalinists, but that's another issue.


I'll make an exception for the Nguyen dynasty, Ngo Dinh Diem, Nguyen Van Thieu, etc. who were as worthless as they come.


VCNH crap. This flag was the flag of the Nguyen dynasty, and it should have been thrown in the trash can along with the Nguyen dynasty.

There is a reason why Vietnamese are poor and want to leave their country. And what you believe in is what caused and is causing the problem. Show some fuking respect and stop your smartas$ beliefs of what you learn in the text books. Hear the stories of Vietnamese who experience the reign of ho chi minh and have some respect for what they been through. The Vietnam war should have never happened and Vietnamese should not experience what their experiencing.

I'm going to give this short. FUK COMMUNISM and FUK THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN COMMUNISM.

btw smartas$ hitler turtored and kill jews, and ho chi minh turtored and killed Viets. And you believe a man like that should be praised in some standard?

Intelligence resticts people from happiness, and i know this applys to you.

And fu-k those like you who turned RVN into a $hithole instead of a working democracy, and falsely accused every opponent of the Saigon regime of being a Communist.


And RVN did not torture and kill Viets? Dumbass.


Intelligent people do have a lot of things to worry about, cows don't. So moo away.

lol holy $hit man, the flag of the star that waves in your heart did pierce it into selfishness and stubborness.

Selfishness for no respect for Vietnamese but respect for communist.

Stubborness for still believing what your communist parents have taught you as a child.

Intelligence from your own mind creates individually, Intelligence from internet sources and textbooks creates smartas$es.

Calling those who disagree with them "Communist", and jailing, torturing, and executing them is an old VNCH habit. That's why I always want to puke when the likes of you claim to be pro-democracy.

Why are you in America when you believe so strongly in the beliefs of communism? Why would you flee the country in which the government is created by the form of government you believe in? There is a reason why Vietnamese left Vietnam, and there is a reason why you left Vietnam. If you love Vietnam's government so damn much why don't you just go there and live a life? try to make a living there and live under the rules of communism. And in the end we'll see how a government like takes care of their people and take care of a communist like you as well.

- i hope after you read this that you get some good internet sources to reply back.

Both the VC and VNCH have failed to perform their duty for the Fatherland, lets us create a new government and heal the scars!

Creating a new government will totally collapse the Vietnamese economy right now. It would set Vietnam back to a decade or more just by simply destroying the existing system. Furthermore, the new government would not experience high growth such as 14% or more to catch up with the existing current government, because it's simply impossible nowaday.

I live in America, because I believe in democracy. Last time I checked, there is real democracy in America, no thanks to you. You live in America, because you made a hell of a mess out of RVN and you ran away to America rather than face the consequences.

People can believe in what the want in America. He can be a Communist if he want, Theres a Communist Party in America. Even the Facist have there own group here. And how would you know if it would be hard to start a life in Vietnam? Had you ever tried and lived there or were you too busy living in the US? The Vietnamese are among the happiest people in the world. I don't think we should change what is not broken.

Yes, there are Fascist groups in America. That's probably why AnhPeter feels so much at home here.

You believe in democracy but you also believe in communism and praise ho chi minh? you just contradicted everything you have said and you just stated how much of a hypocrite you are. That.. or just one huge smartas$


And also where did i state i love America so much?



Their are happy people in Vietnam, and there are also people who sell their daughters to koreans, thai's, and chinese to become prositutes, and there are also Vietnamese women who would marry any type of foreigner they lay their eyes on. Just because their happy doesn't mean it is the environment that made them happy, but what they appreicate so easily because of what they don't have.

I didnt mean make a complete change from Communism to Capitalism right away.
I mean that there should be another party or more to compete witht he communist for the leadership.
If not then the best thing the VC can do is stay the hell of out the people way of developing the nation and expel corruption!
The Vietnamese people doesnt care who their leader is or what regime they lived under as long as that regime allows them the freedom to live and to glorifies the Fatherland. Seriously, we Viet doesnt care much about politic, we love life and just wanna to live in peace. Centuries of warfare have runied our country, we only want peace and the freedom to glorifies the Fatherland.
Simple yeh? but its hard Because we Viet just do not know how to unite...........
Such a pity!

There is no contradiction at all: true to your stinking VNCH habit, you said that I believe in Communism without regard as to whether it is true or not. I didn't bother to contradict you, because I think that you are nothing more than a VNCH piece of garbage and I'd rather talk to myself than talk to garbage.

I praised HCM to the extent that he did good and so does much of the rest of the world, regardless of whether you like it or not - You obviously don't, but your opinion counts for $hit in the larger scheme of things. I have mentioned repeatedly in previous posts that my opinion of the historical HCM is nuanced because I am troubled both by a number of his historical actions toward fellow Vietnamese and the fact that the VCP he founded included an all too high number of Maoists and Stalinists. However, I just fail to see why I need to justify myself to a piece of under-educated VNCH garbage like you.

Only stupid, crazy people do that crap. And many of those women that go for foreigners are just gold diggers. Gold diggers are in the US too, greed is just human nature.
Plus, out-of-nation Vietnamese are not to speak for true Vietnamese actually living in Vietnam about happiness.

Improving and restructuring governance to force out corruption and to bring in transparency and accountability has to be the top priority. Once we have that, we will have a successful democracy. Otherwise, we could end up like Russia and so many post-colonial African countries which started (or restarted) as democracies and ended up as trash cans.

This is not to say that we should not push for democracy. We need to keep pushing democracy as a vitally important tool for economic and social development because no government can be all things to all people: we need homegrown NGO's to provide much needed social support and assistance to families in need, but these NGO's will have a hard time being created if the government keeps interfering with the right of free association. We also need to push the right to free speech, so that people can sign petitions and present grievances so that issues can be identified, prioritized, and addressed effectively and efficiently.

I expect that dissatisfaction in the PRC is growing to the point where the place could blow, and we certainly don't want to be part of that explosion and share their fate, if the PRC leadership fails to address the social issues they have neglected for so long.

My words are spoken by those who lived and living in Vietnam. Don't talk about what i did or did not do in my life.

LOL Multiple parties instead of one party and you talk about Viet being united. One party, one country, one fuhrer, Viets united! (j/k)

How about this transition? The communist party drops the communist in their name (there is a rumor that they want to change the name into socialist party), and accept other people as members. Right now there are reformist/conservative factions within the Party, ideally they should split into 2 parties in the future. Then you got a 2 parties system like the US. Not really the democracy system I want I don't like the bipartisan bickering bs. I prefer the system in most European countries with multiple parties rather than the US system with its "winner take all" election which causes a 2 parties system. But I would be a happy man.

*Wakeup Preydominator! It's just a dream.

Then why in the hell are you complaining and b!tching? My beliefs are mine and there is no way your going to change that. Smartas$es like yourself say such things to try to be smart and show what kind of education you have. I speak out of my mind and what i believe in. I don't go around restating what someone said or what he or she said wrong. And you say you didn't try to contradict me? Fool that was all you been doing. I speak for the word of my haterd of communist and i have to defend myself from the likes of communist like you. Good job learning about things you have learned by teachers but not on your own.

When did i say "one party, one Fuhrer?"
I believe in one VIET NAM!!!!!
Man i think you have some Nazist influences: Ein Volk, Ein Fuhrer, Deutschland !! (One people, one leader, GERMANY!!!)

I'll take bickering bs over civil war any day. On the other hand, we Vietnamese are frighteningly good at bickering. This is why I prefer the US system, which allows parties to bicker, while ordinary people are free to start their own businesses, form professional associations and move the country forward, even if the government looks paralyzed.



Jackass. And it's crystal clear that you don't even know what a Communist is, because you keep calling me a Communist like the ignorant VNCH propagandist whore that you are. You are getting incoherent, btw.

One or few person's happiness does not represent the nation. Its like asking an unhappy Black guy thats on welfare how living in the US is like.

Like i said.. Don't talk about what i did or did not do in my life, or who or how many people i have talked too



an inch of a ruler is still part of the ruler. eventhough how little or how much you believe in communism, your still a damn communist.

Is it me or some people here are slow on sarcasm? If you don't know the internet lingo: j/k stands for just kidding.

That's why I called you a VNCH piece of garbage.

stop the bashing guys, i dont think you are getting anywhere.

Well, I guess instantly calling people with different political opinions than you a Communist is wrong too isn't it?

Oh yes, I am. I said that these VNCH types are in the habit of calling any Vietnamese they don't like or whose opinions they don't like a Communist and anhpeter was kind enough to make my point for me.

No.. when that damn political view is toward communism. because that is what he or even she is, a communist.

Things can aim toward but doesn't actually point directly

Shut up!!!! The people of Vietnam will change the goverment when they feel it is needed.

BTW everyone here scream this color and that color is not even live in Vietnam. Only those living there have any right to say anything.

HCM was a monkey-brained person who wrote a book to praise himself and maybe that is one of the reasons that some of his followers didn't let him get burried properly as he wished when he died. Why some people still worship this bastard?

jeez you people? why cant we put aside our difference and unite to build rebuild Viet Nam, we will go nowhere if we keep doing what we are doing now.

Okay, I read this article. I was wrong about Africa so I've altered my view. The Vietminh accelerated worldwide decolonization to a significant degree.

I still stand by the view that the root cause of decolonization was WW2 as evidenced by the failure of the Dutch in Indonesia and the release of India, Burma. I'm not sure what motivated the Philippines release, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Vietminh. I think it's safe to assume that Indonesia had nothing to do with the Vietminh and the Release of the other two colonies and little or nothing to do with with the events in Vietnam. Unless there's evidence to the contrary.

My goodness... i called you a damn communist because every damn thing you spoke about was toward communist you damn moron. You defended and talk $hit about my comment towards communism.. isn't obvious to me that i would think your a fuking communist? Get a social life and learn to speak to people, cause you don't understand $hit of how people think when a certain person trys to contradict or argue against them.



hell nah, fuk communist