Nice video, the song is kinda catchy. What does 'ma noi ma noi ta ma da' mean?

Off-Topic
Zaw-Gyi,I know about how the Thais treated the Shans that fled to Thailand(and other people too),but don't you know that Thailand is also virtually like a dumping ground for these illegal immigrants and all the crimes and society problems that they bring with them ? Anyway,Thailand being a centre location have to help these people too,but Thai should also seriously adopt the policy of Singapore,where it's very harsh to illegal immigrants.

On-Topic
SHAN should belongs to Thailand,go do a survey on them and see whether they feels more affilated with the burmese than with the Thais.I've been to there before,and all I can said is that our culture are so similar,and they adores Thais,no kidding. They consider themselves one part of us too.The Burma Junta should started treating them right now,if not then I think Thailand would do a much better job than them.

Come to think of that,if we really want a state expansion,the Mon should also join us too,consider our culture similarities and how much we've been helping them.

Ma noi ma noi tam ma da means an ordinary little dog,my grandma was the orginal singer of this song ^ ^

Hi Erla <3

i find your arguments so adorably cute but you've been brainwashed into thinking this because because you have poor experience of anything other than Mons or Shan in your country either flattering you with how similar your cultures are or from your own limited observations .

Which part of the MASSIVE Shan state did you actually get to ? KengTung ? , Taung-Gyi ? , Hsipaw ? Mong Meit ? . How many Shan do you actually know ? How many did you actually speak to ? What kind of Shan were they ? What socio-economic group did these Shan belong to ?

it's always the privelege of the poor to feel oppressed - especially when it is true - but also to blame things on ethnic or cultural differences . These differences usually don't matter when there is wealth . I don't remember the majority Shan states repeatedly sideing with AYutthaya over their 1000 yr old history . When Burma was rich and powerful they affiliated with BUrma and often CHina - even KengTung the eastern most and least Burman state did so ( hence dozens of marriages between Burmese royalty and Shan aristocracy over many many centuries )

What similarities are there with Siamese culture ?? We ( Thailand and Burma ) share a massive border so surely it makes sense that there is blurring of cultures and ethnicities there also given that there were no firm boundaries before the British imposed them . What cultural similarities do you share with the Mon that makes Mon more Thai than Burmese ? Mon are MOn but if they are similar to anyone then its to the BUrmans . Everyone knows this . Mons that deny this do so only because of perceived hurt . If you want to give them a homeland why not carve one out of Thailand for them . The Mon state was created in the 1970s out of recognition that some Mon felt very Mon and wanted a homeland ( i know it's not ideal but most Mon have become Burmans over the years - what do you want to do about that ? reconvert them ? - what's done is done and coercion is not only by force but by wealth )


The essence of Mon is also that of Burmese ( we are more like Mon than Thai - in terms of culture Mon and Burman cultures are derivations of each other and have been for a 1000 years ) Why do you guys deny your Khmer heritage and only remember your MOn ? On a world map we too are culturally similar to you compared to say the Malay , Indo , Flips or Vietnamese : does that mean we join with Thailand too ? ( maybe we should as junior partner to Siamese supremacy - ha ha )


AS for the Shan , whereas I agree that the eastern fringes especially KengTung ( which incidentally can also be called Chiang Tong ) was created as an offshoot of Chiang Mai by Lanna royalty and therefore feel affiliated with Thailand becasue Lanna is NOW annexed by Siam, I don't think you realise how big the Shan state is or how different the the Shans really are even to each other .

There are Lanna-ised Shans as well as BUrmanised -Shans and Sinofied - Shan ( BUT NO SIAMISED SHAN - got it ? ) as well as there being 50% of population of the Shan state who ARE NOT SHAN.

The BUrman identity is also not "pure" IT's part Shan , part MOn , part Tibeto-Burman . ( likewise Thais on the whole are part MOn , part Shan , part Khmer ) SO ACTUALLY WE ARE 2/3 RDS THE SAME . Terrible isn't it . We're like brothers who've fallen out because one brother pissed in the other's pint 10 years previously and are now fighting over who's best friends with the other brother .


By simple mathematical calculation the central Burmese are also 1/5 Ayutthayan as thats where your court and 50,000 of your citizens ended up ( never to return but making up about 20% of the population of Ava at the time ) . They became assimilated losing language but adapting Siamese tradition to enrich our society giving it more depth and layer . Do you know we acknowledge that Ramakien influenced our perception of the Ramayana so much ( when the exiled court members adapted to Burmese tastes ) that it has become cherished as our own .


Please stop this bull$hit , playground "we are so similar so we should be friends " and just get on with it sorting out your own issues in Pattani and your dissent in Issan or Surin .


I repeat : This amounts to taking advantage of a weakened state for the mere purposes of state expansion .





If you want cultural similarity look to Lao first then Cambodia . DOn't play this "Shans are so similar to us so should be part of our team" bla bla bla ( part of your team and do what ? provide you with more cheap labour , prostitutes and raw naterials for your Chinese owned industries ? )

I don't see Shans openly longing to be part of Yunnan or Laos ( to whom cultural similarity is IMHO GREATER. ) This is because poor oppressed people will always go where the MONEY .

Actually word on the street is that eastern Shans do want to unite BUT with Lanna , North Laos , Sipsong Panna and Dehong .

So why not give independence to Lanna ? There are some in Lanna that do want greater autonomy and feel their culture has been butchered by Central Thais and if in the future Laos were to become wealthy or China were to become the wealthiest and strongest nation in the world I can see Lanna wanting to join with Laos and parts of CHina for sure .









I have many relatives in Bangkok who are ethnic Shan and you know what ? They consider themselves BURMESE and travel back and forth all the time . Why ? They are well off .

It's always easy to confuse socio-economic issues with ethno-religious ones . That's the problem in this world.





By your argument , Burma should have Lanna back since from my own observations the culture there is so similar to our own ( rather than with Siam ) . You've only "owned" Lanna for as long as we did .



My Santa wish is for a democratic stable government in BUrma with nuturing of ethnic ties between the different groups with stability and growth in associated partnership between all SE Asian nations . Once this is achieved and the Shan state can be independent on its own , then a referendum should take place on INDEPENDENCE and being able to go on its own and not to serve as some backwater of Siam ( this is an ethnic Shan - ME speaking )

Zaw gyi

Those shan girls in the videos are pretty. Are you in the Shan state of Burma now? I need a good looking wife. Can you hook me up with one of the prettiest shan girls there. I want a wife that is no older than 30 and no younger than 25. Tell those girls they need big Daddy elephantking lolz . I also listen to the shan talk on one of these links in Asian finest. Shan in burma sounds nice and funny. It sounds like little kid speaking lao lolz. If I had a wife to talk like that to me everyday I think she will look beautiful just hearing her talk.

Tell them : Aibao Big Daddy Elephantking huk sao Tai yai .

Sound like your grandmother were Lao descendant, I don't think Central Thai( Siamese= Mon/Khmer) say Ma noi ma moi tam ma da..LOL,, Let me hear Ma noi ma noi tam ma da in Central Thai language..

There are a lot of Shan or Tai Neua people living in Northern Laos. Lao and Shan or Tai Neua are Kun Bourom children.

There are two kinds of Lao that I want you guys to know. One group of Lao fall in this camp: We are "Tai by blood and Tai till death" And the other group of Lao fall in this camp that says: "Nah mothefu-ker, I'm Lao and Lao till death, just like our real Lao king Chao Anou and all the real Lao who gave their life for this real Lao $hit". And like I said in my other thread, "will the real Lao stand up!"

Look Lil'Man, dont ever try to disprespect me! Your attitude is not Lao and is the same attitude that has been dividing our people.

There are two kinds of Lao that I want you guys to know. One group of Lao fall in this camp: We are "Tai by blood and Tai till death" 5555

Your intelligence needs serious questioning... Tai is used in a broad term and Lao in a narrow term, dont be so simple-minded.

Look fool, you talking to a Vientiane/Savannakhet Lao. I'm the motherfuking type of Lao that will die for this fu-king Lao $hit like my king Chao Anouvong. I ain't got no time for punk @$$ Khon Lao who "On-Sone"(admire and worship the Thai). You think I don't know about "Tai" being a general term? I'm Lao, that's all I consider myself. If you want to call yourself "Tai" then do it, but don't be telling this to the Chao Anouvong type of Lao like me. You think I give a fu-k about "Tai this or that" from Southern China some thousands of years like they mean $hit to me. Nah homeboy, you mistaken.

Let me tell you what divided our people, those punk @$$ Lao who "On-Sone" the Thai, that's what divided our people. Those muthfu-king Lao who didn't help their own people defend against those muthfu-king Thai who fu-ked their people. That's what divided our people.

Good post, i agree with that point, 99% of it

I tell u what, Siamese can have Southern Laos, and we can unite Shan states, Lanna, and Northern Laos, NE Vietnam, and SipsongPanna, but we have to also include Vientiane, and Northern Isaan since the great majority are Tai, or lao ppl who were forced to relocate there.

Get the hell out of here with that $hit. The last time I checked, it was Lanna and Northern Laos that didn't do $hit for Muang Lao, leaving Vientiane and Southern Laos to defend Muang Lao. If it was up to Northern Laos to run things, the Siamese would continue to push Khon Lao around. Northern Lao="Hen Kair Thou"(selfish). If Vientiane line was still around, you know Northern Lao, especially Muang Luang would have gotten their @$$ checked.

^All this time in Lao chat, Pimp always use to make fun of or shoot down Northern Lao folks, but now that Manleow person is telling him something that he disagrees with or makes him angry (although Pimp has bad mouthed Northern Lao folks much worse and far too long) he gets hotheaded again.

this gonna get p.raja heated.

arnt Southern Lao ppl more Siamese then they are Lao anyway,

I mean, Central Thailand southern Isaan and Southern Laos, are pretty much the same, Wat Phu in Southern Laos was the old capital of Siam

Lanna and Northern Lao are the actual Lao Ppl, Southern Lao are hybrids like the Siamese,

We are talking about reunifications of the Tai/Lao, i dont feel the actual Thai ppl (cental THai) are really apart of the Tai nation, I mean the Northern Thai are really Lao, and most of Isaan are Lao, and the Shan are the same as the Lao (actually Lao)

Yeah, you're right. The actual Lao people who sold out their land and people to the Siamese. The actual Lao people who fought on the side of the Siamese against their countrymen. I don't think some of us learn anything from the time of Chao Anou. He gave his life and soul just so future generations can have a land of their own and be proud to call themselves "Lao", and this "Buc Hua Yai"(big head) talk about wanting to give up more of land to the Siamese. This is a sign of "Khon Kee Kad"(coward person).

Trust me, Central and Southern Lao would not hesitate to check Northern Lao if we have to. Abraham Lincoln did all in his power to perserve the union, and we as Central and Southern Lao will fight with all of our might to perserve our land against any enemies, outside or within our land who want to divide and seperate Muang Lao.

I believe Wat Phou was built by Krom.

The ancient Siamese spoke and wrote Krom, the Siamese are descendants of the Krom, So the Southern "Lao" are partly Siamese/Krom mixed with the Lao ppl who migrated south into the region along the mekong

the ppl of Lanna are my brethrens, we are the same ppl, I have more in common with the ppl of Lanna then I do with the ppl of Southern Laos. Ethnically of course.

These are the Real Lao, we are the Lao ppl that gave u birth, so don’t bite the hand that brought u to life

I don't give a fu-k who you have in common. If you ever think of wanting to give any of our land to the Siamese, then you are my enemy and the enemy of all the Lao people who fought and died for our freedom. Remember that, "Buc Hua Yai".

Ur logic makes no sense, im trying to unite ALL the Lao ppl, but u are only caught up in the petty nonsense of who owns what part of Land, the Lao blood is more important then dirt.

To be honest, I would return Wat Phu to the Khmer’s, since its actually Khmer architecture or built by their ancestors

If you think it's just dirt, then your thinking is very flawed. Lao blood and the land you call "dirt" are inseparable. It's the "dirt" you call that this Lao blood has been spilled. It's this "dirt" that this Lao blood has nourished. It's this "dirt" that my king, Chao Anou stood for and died for.

He did not spill anything for dirt, he spilled his blood for the ppl, for Lao ppl, his vision is like mine, he saw the ppl of Loungprabang as the same as him, he saw that ppl of Lanna the same as him, they were all his lao ppl

Many of his general were of Lanna descent, he could care less for dirt,

Yes it is just dirt, his vision was not to keep a peace of dirt or how much dirt can he obtain, his vision was to unite all Lao ppl, including Lao ppl of Loungprabang, Lao ppl of Lanna.

Just as today, Lao ppl are not just ppl who live inLaos, some arbitrary imaginable line/boarder, This Lao bloodline is all over Thailand, as well as many other nations

The land Lao people live in, is that land that Lao blood has spilled. You think land and people are two different things? How do we sustain life if it wasn't from the land you call "dirt". Yeah, I know he wanted to unite Lao people, but unfortunate Chao Noi and Muang Luang and Lanna joined Bangkok and "Hak Lan" Vientiane. If Lao people weren't so "divided" just like your ignorant @$$ want to give our land to the Siamese Thai after we tried so hard to free ourselves from these oppressors, that to me is just as worst as the Thai. You're the kind of Lao that would join the Siamese and attack your countrymen if war broke out between Laos and Thailand today. I know people like you. People like you are my enemey just like the Siamese are.

Yeah bud, since we are questioning each others Laoism, let me start by saying, the way u talk degrades lao ppl, the hate u spill everyday is a derogation to my ppl. I don’t hate Thai ppl, cuz the majority of them are Lao, they have been taught things their whole lives other then the truth,


Ur most likely not even Lao, but a hybrid just as the Siamese are, I am pure Lao, from the heart of Lanxang, so I rather u not question my dedication to my ppl, because it goes beyond simple boarders



ur more likely, like a little Kha, who does whatever his master tells him, whether that be Lao or Siamese, u do what u do Whether what u r doing is right or wrong,



Muang Loung did not fight with the Siamese, they abstained from the conflict, and as a result, certain nobles were punished and imprisoned in Bangkok.



Chao Noi was also disrespected in the years under Viengchan, being the descendant of Khun Boron 7 sons that established the 7 cities under Lao rule, he felt he should receive equal respect as his descendant, XiengKhoun was one of the first Lao capitals, including Loungprabang, Chiangmai, SipsongPanna, Shan States, Tokin Region, and Ayutthaya.



However, Chao Noi deserved what happened to him, when Anouvong was captured. Anouvong was the bravest Lao in its long history, and should be respected for that.

Where yall goin with this^^^^^ it only leads to destruction. we're all have more than a share of our Lao bloodlines so be a proud Lao. show each other with respect, stop questioning or patronizing each other....give me some love right!

Krom is refering to Cambodian.

^This seperation of our people needs to end! This garbage has gone on far too long. I admit that over the past several months I have just been looking the other way (most of the time) whenever Khon Tai Dhai or Tai Vieng talk down on all the Tai Neua folks. Resorting to the same behavior that some of the members have done to us Northern Lao folks is NOT the answer either.

Even when a fellow Lao friend of mine came to visit me and other Asians where I live questioned her validity of being Asian or Lao I still defended her when people talked bad about her (she is a Lao from Champasak). I told them, she eats the same food I do, wears the "Sinn" skirt at home just like I do, and speaks the same language that I do. That to me still means she is just as Lao as I am.

Pimp and Manleow, don't you think that this is the kind of attitude that reassures the Siamese that Khon Lao will never be as ONE because we still b!tch amongst ourselves? This is the kind of "coerced" behavior that we should not continue, so please stop, for the sake of all Khon Lao everywhere.

yes, Krom >>> Khmer/Siamese >>> Cambodian

Well San if u send me a pick, then i will stop, and thats final, i've heard u said u are pretty hot, i want to be make sure that is true

anyway, i didnt make any references to him personally until the last post, so i tried to have a descent debate without name calling, seems he did not want to comply

i actually like his pride but dont like his negativity

If you ever said that $hit in front of my face, I would knock your front teeth out. You and any Lao or any Siamese want to divide this land of my king Chao Anou and all my people who fought and died will get dealt with the same way, regardless if you Lao or Thai. I have no respect Tai Muang Luang because you guys are "Kee Kad"(cowards) and "Hen Ga Thou"(selfish). I been around enough Tai Muang Luang to know who they act like. This is Vientiane/Savannakhet Lao you talking "Buc Ha Hua Yai"(You fu-king big head). You disrespected "Din Lao" by even thinking if giving it to the Siamese. I wish you would say that to a real Lao face like me and see what's going to happen to you.

Alright!!! Let's end this now.plz,

There's no one here have the authority to give away our motherland! and know better not to make such nasty suggestion.

Although, comment was made about wat phou Champasak. but i willing to let it go...can we all just get along?????????

I totally agree. Nobody here have the authority to add or divide Laos. Just leave the way it is. We can not go back and change the past, but we can make the future better.

i will call u "Ka Men," cuz ur a stinking savage, U cant touch me, what did u do? Since ur calling my ancestors traitors, Ur great great granddaddy most likely just followed the elephants picking up its crapp, thats the extent you and any of ur ancestered ever did, the ppl of Muang Loung came in and rebuild Viengchan out of its ashes, its ur Savannakhet Lao Deng half Keow that come in and distroyed our country.

, anyway,

Wat Phu was apart of the Siamese Land Jenla? so they have a connection to the land, but if u have any insight on Wat Phu, ur more then welcome the input Xonelong. is Xone like Zero, and long is of course lost. so no one will be lost wah?

Besides, i was merely talking about the Topic, Tai's ppls reunification, i dont know where this Ka gets off saying who or anyone is a traitor,

Savannakhet is holding power and there's nothing Muang Luang can do about it. What? Hahaha. Muang Luang needed the French to make them king. Hahaha. Ain't that a shame. A gutless people who couldn't even stand up against the Thai Dahk Lae. lol. And calling me a "Ka" hahahaha. I guess my dad is the White-est Ka then. hahaha. You're going to have to do better than that, man. "Kee Kad"(cowards) like Tai Muang Luang can't hand with a Vientiane/Savannakhet Lao.

if he is white, then Most likely he is Kon Keow, because the only light skin ppl in Savanh is kon Keow, since u guys are a bunch of Vietnamese assKissing traitors, selling our land to the Viets,

hahahaha

Kon Viengchan/MuangLoung representing

My Dad is Tai Vientiane, "Buc Hua Yai". Muang Lao under the Royal Government wasn't any better. They abuse their power too. I hear back then that the leaders back were just as corrupt. They see any pretty women from "Ban Nork" country side, they went their and took them from their husband like they are some kind of "Tay-va-da".

We never sold our land to the Viets. We only use them to help fight our fight. If we had the man power, we wouldn't need them. Laos will never sell out our land to the Gao or the Thai Dahk Lae. Unlike your ancestors, scared to fight the Thai Dahk Lae. lol.

You're a small minded fool for thinking of only of "Us vs Them", Say-lee vs Ai Nong. It's not that about that $hit. It's about restoring pride to Muang Lao and standing up against those punk @$$ Thai Dahk Lae that did us wrong in the first place. It's about re-asserting ourselves again and showing the Thai Dhak Lae that the days of trying to belittle Khon Lao is over. You remember when Lao blew up the Thai "patrol boat" and the Thai had to close their borders. That's what I mean by a more assertive Muang Lao. The days of turning a blind eye and letting the Thai get away is over.

whatever buk Keow, u ppl are traitors, shooting Lao ppl while they try to cross the boarder, inprisoning and killing our fathers, uncles, brothers, and grandfathers in ur so called re-education prison camps,

u ppl will kill ur own ppl, Chao Phettsirat was right not to trust Viet Dogs traitors like you,

How am I a traitor when my family were "Oup-Pa-Yop"(refugees) like your family "Buc Hua Yai". I look at both sides equally. I'm beyond picking sides, I'm just pro-Lao all the way, whatever works for Muang Lao, I'm all for it. There is no perfect system. We don't live in a perfect world. Our people been through so much, and you still think of "Say-Lee vs Ai Nong". That's a sign of a small minded person.

I would not get into anything destructive to Lanxang . The only time I will get sensitive is when people come and disrespect the line of Anouvong.

Lets listen to some music for a while my brothers and sister. Memorize the mekong .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL66QeYdjRY&NR=1

Manleow, you sound like a reasonable person. nah, thats not what Xone means, the long part is correct.

you already know the answer to wat phou . what I can share is the memories that I have. I never miss boun wat phou when growing up, i would go as many trips with adult in a day. there something about it that make peoples walk up/down the step without complaining. Next time, if I have a chance to go again I would try to ride the elephant around the phou and take a swim in the lakes where the local/men having some kind competitions as part of traditional.

If you never been, then you should go see for yourself in person. maybe the spirit of our ancesters or whoever was and the magical of wat phou will make you change of heart and decide to keep instead, so the younger generation will have some place to hang out or even try to pawn it out when they experiencing financial difficulty...loz

Yet the war of words continues.

I did try, maybe I should try a bit harder.

It is so unlike me..my bad.

I agree, but the spirits that build Wat Phu, the spirits which surrounds it is most likely Siamese/Khmer ppl’s spirit, its their blood and sweat that created that place, and maybe some sort of lao spirit who mixed with them, like luke sort, also hangs out there chillin.



But the ancestors of the ppl that Build Wat Phu, Kon Siam and Kon Khmer still exist today, Some in that region who mixed with the Lao ppl since we conquered it, as well as in Siamese in Central Thailand, Cambodia and Southern Isaan. But it is their Ancestors, Not mine. Whether or not it lays in the boarders of Laos today, Lao ppl did not build it, if they had any part of building it, most likely they were slaves at that time, Since the concentration of Lao ppl were still up North.



So know that, I don’t Claim Wat Phu as being a Lao creation, so I don’t claim it, Laos can claim it as national treasure of course, and they should, because it is a national treasure in side the country of Laos, but Laos (ppl of Laos) and Kon Lao are two different things when I mentioned the above as I did. Its like the Spanish conquering Mexico and claiming the Aztec, Maya pyramids is theirs and they built it, so no, I give too much credit to the ppl that built it (khmer/Siamese ppl), whether nor not I have a distaste for them or not. My distaste for them doesn’t cloud up my reasoning and the truth.

now, if Lao ppl built something on top of Wat Phu, as they did for many of the Stupa's, like the That loung, then yeah, We can claim it as being more apart of Kon Lao because we physically built it with our own hands

3 mighty kings are fighting again. I hope they won't divide Lanxang into three kingdoms again.

yall need to chill.



kidding me right? i have family in from the south, my grandma of my moms side is from svk, neither she or anyone else in my family are chinese/viet. yeah theres a few viet-lao in svk but for the most part theyre all lao.

Nah,..History will never repeated, no Lao peoples allow that....but, thx for the humor.. lolz




No body will disagree with who were the creators/builders of wat phu. I am pleased that you allow Laos claimming it as their national treasure.

I refer our(my) ancesters who have ruled and shed their blood in protection of this great architectural site and its people since it became part of Lanxang..some hundreds of years ago and I believe they prolly kickin..what not with those of the original builders and thanking them every day same way i did.

Boon wat phu is a meaning to show those of the builders/creators, rulers,slaves and the live of those animals who had given their lifes to feed those i mention for wat phu as we see today, we kon Lao in general had never forget and appreciated what they left us with. We should with all means to protected and treasure as it meant to be so our younger Lao generation can carry on the traditions for years to comes...

As for "look sot" it is very common not only in Laos but else whare in the world. Who to say the pure Lao(s) is only in up north since where it started, i doubt the peoples who came to liberated Lanxang with Chao Fa gnum never get to mingle with our Lao peoples or maybe they return to khmere after Chao Fa gnum throw a big celebration party that last for so many nites and send packin...

I honestly do not feel the need for us(Lao) to stirred up things from the history and used it against one anothers, its pointless! time to put our foot down and end all of the adversaries differennes that has been carry on for years.... its good that we know the history, know where we came from and be proud of who we are and those who died fighting for the caused. there's absolutely unescesary to dig up their graves and put them in vain as we have done and that is disrespectful in my personal point of veiw.

please enjoy the the vd's clip below, its about wat phu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb9WGy4NXYE...ted&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gYIgxTHUfU...ted&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqCsO-FAf1o...ted&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVH5GZOBipE...ted&search=

good post !

..(head's gettin big!)....btw, very much thx..thx...my brother.