During the period when China force its control over VN, there were mandatory gifts that the Vietnamese people had to ofter the Chinese yearly or even more often. These gifts range from inventions, arts, to even people with skill. I know these events occured and they are indeed recorded in history text, though I have heard some particular objects/people but I haven't bumped into textual verification. The big reason is that anything note would be under the name "China" because technically on the international view - VN was China. Our inventions would have been a subgroup of our oppressors. Here are some things my parents and my parents friends said are orignally Vietnamese - could anyone find more on this topic or share what you know?

1) The compass was originally Viet. Some people say this because sea trading wes more bustling in VN. The possible reason that it may be called a Chinese invention is because the sea right next to us is named "South China Sea"

2) Fine China - I heard of some realtion to "bát tràng" that the Viet cultured fine porcelain first

3) Dynamite - I heard that rudimentary and prototype dynamite was a Viet invention that was given to the Chinese?

Those of you from Chinese origin are probably gonna just say this is B.S. So don't bother posting if your gonna say that. 1000 years from now your gonna say Tibetan chanting is a "Chinese" invention because you currently own Tibet. This is like the US saying hoola dancers in Hawaii or the Tacos in New Mexico are 100% America. Canad says maple sirup is Canadian - bah!

We also invented the the cannons. Hồ Nguyên Trừng invented it at around 1410s.

One of the architects that built the Fordidden City in Bejing was a Vietnamese who was forced to to China after the fall of the Hồ dynasty in 1410s.

Yah, some Chinese dudes might copy these and say it's bs in some other stupid forums.

Sweet - I knew it! Our people have been drained from VN all these years.

I have also heard that the Great Wall of China used massive amounts of Viet prisoners/slaves to make the wall. Anyone who was killed or died was simply thrown into the center of the wall and covered up with more building material.

This is true Dai_Viet. I read an article (trying to remember what the magazine)
it is a very famous magazine (can't recall "National Geographic" or "Readers' digest" or "World Architecture" ?) that highlight the story of this Vietnamese architect. Basically he was hired by the Chinese to build this Forbidden City in Beijing. He was well rewarded for his works in golds. But unfortunately he died without having return to Vietnam after the building.

Also make note that the Chams are one of the greatest builders in history (like their cousin Khmer "Angorwats") the ruins of Cham architecture is still a mystery to some scientists. They have no idea how these people do it; what method was employed and what substances was used to make the bricks stick together in close proximity without resorting to using the contemporary cement.

I read this sometime back. I can't recall the magazine now. I'll look for it and let you guys know.

In regards to "bắng trằng" porcelain/ceramic, recently there is a discovery that off the coast of Vinh or some in close vicinity that dated back the materials that was on its way to China and throught the regions as exports goods.

Well you can related to today's society as well. When you think of Space Rocketeering, you immediately think the USA/Russian who is rightfully in the talks but if you look back in history. Without the Jewish-Germany scientists the space program of both USA and Russia would not be possible in such a short time.

Many inventions nowaday in the USA are credited under the USA but little beknownst that the background of some of these learned minds are of foreign descendants.

Interesting. I've never heard of these claims before except for the building of Forbidden City. Do we have proofs to the claims?

this is widely known..., not just prisoners, soldiers, ordinary men were all taken to build the great wall................ It is believe that up to 1 million men were used. :genius:

secondly it seems all of the other claims you made is "i heard", you know i heard alot of things too. I would really like to see some facts.

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blcompass.htm

Here are the chinese proof. May i see your proof, besides from your parents claims?

Also dynamite? The last time i heard it was a swedish that invented dynamite? Did you mean gun powder, or fire crackers or small gernades? If you do mean the dynamite, i have no idea what you are talking about, i think you should be talking with the swedish instead.

Just because these invention were made during the time China owns vietnam, or as you people like to say oppressing vietnam, why does it have to be "vietnamese" can't it be an chinese who live in that period that invented it?
Also i am really sorry to dismiss your parents claims about the compass. So just because the trade with vietnam was bustling it was a Vietnamese invention? Sorry its doesn't make any sort of sense at all. So i think india has a strong claim to inventing the compass as well, since they trade alot as well with its neighbour and the west. The mongols too, they love to move around, i think they need direction aswell. Japan too, since Japan is an island and in those days you have to take a ship and go to other places to trade and explore, i think Japan has a strong claim too.




also peace people, if found flame, not intentional. i apologise before hand.

Does anyone have PROOF of any of this? We can't just make up these wild claims without any proof you know.

As for the invention of cannons this is false Ho Nguyen Tran didn't invent Cannons he invented the CASTING of Cannons which he was taken prisoner by the Chinese to improve their cannons for them.

Anyone know what Casting of Cannons are?

http://www.vietnamtourism.com/e_pages/viet...h_lyandtran.htm

"Among other forms of technology was the casting of cannon. Ho Nguyen Trung, taken prisoner by the Ming, was entrusted by the Chinese emperor to make cannons for the Chinese army."

As for the compass that is probably false considering the first compass China used was made out of mercury with a SPOON in the middle, that would turn, I really doubt Vietnamese ships would use a spoon in navigating the waters.

Again please don't post claims without backing it up with proof.

I will provide one invention by Vietnamese to China that helped prevent famine in China. It is the growing of a new type of rice that was introduced from Vietnam into China.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/china/age2.html

"One of the major agricultural innovations that we talk about in the NOVA documentary is that a new type of rice was introduced from Vietnam that grew faster. It prevented famine and allowed people to grow a double crop of rice each year, giving them a surplus that they could sell on the open market. This led to more wealth in the rural sector"

just wondering what are casting of cannons???????????

is it those aiming things???????

It's the art of making cannons. Cannons will explode if you don't make them properly.

Back to topic, I think Ho Nguyen Trung should have committed suicide rather than helping his country's enemy. They were used against Vietnamese.

But were Chinese cannons back in the day as effective as Europeon ones?

Remember Vietnam had to pay tribute and I doubt he was the only one that knew how to cast cannons in Vietnam, so if he committed suicide they would just find someone else.

I heard that the Chinese cannons during the reign of Khang Hi, Ung Chinh and Cang Long of Thanh Dynasty were very effective. However, the subsequent emperors chose a policy of isolation and gradually fell behind the west. This is just about cannons ok? The Chinese decline started much earlier, dating back to the early Ming Dynasty.

But anyway, the above three emperors were very effective at keeping the Russians, Japanese and Europeans at bay.

DELETE

Does anyone know anything about the new type of rice Vietnam brought into China that grew faster than the rice they had and helped prevent famine in China and stuff? I posted the link about it above if you want to read more about it.

is it pearl rice? I dont know if people refer as pearl rice. But if i am correct pearl rice came outside of china.


as for other types of rice ehhhhhhh, who cares, i need rice every meal man. Can't live without it.

Bryon why you delete your previous post? Remember we are talking about the fact, not just someone pop up and say "We invented the blah blah"

Does anyone have proof?

We want the truth not some story told by ancestor.

From: The Cambridge History of China (Vol. VII).
If you look into the Early Ming time history materials anough, you might get some information about this

I deleted my previous post because it was the same one as the one below it and I didn't want to get caught for double posting.

As for proof, I provided it with LINKS in the post above.

BUT I said the compass is a Chinese invention and not Vietnamese.

I provided proof that Vietnam did NOT invent the cannon but they did invent the technology of CASTING the Cannon which help prevent cannons from exploding when they were fired.

I also provided proof that Vietnam introduced a new type of rice that grew faster than the rice in ancient China which help prevent famine in China as well.

Anyway don't take my word for it just click on the links that I posted above to see.

So here it is:

-Chinese invented the Cannon
-Vietnamese invented the CASTING of the cannon but not the whole cannon itself.

-Chinese invented the Compass.

-Vietnamese invented and grew a new type of rice that grows faster than any rice in China and brought it to China and helped prevent famine.

-As for the porcelin, I have to look into it.

Sorry about that, I didn’t realize you have edited the above post.

For supernovas, from your recent post I have realized that you are trying to find trouble with Chinese. You are like trying to proof to Vietnamese that you act like a Viet. Because I do know that you have some problem in the past with them. Off course, I can’t provide proof to proof it since it is like a personal problem. However, I will play with you while I have spare time, at the moment I am very busy.

You are one absurd of a person. He stated a fact and you try to cheapen him by saying that he's trying to prove his Vietnameseness to gain some credibility among us. For your information, I have stated this before and will state it again, even though occasionally I disagree with him, at the same time I also respect him for his intelligence, articulateness and reason.

I disagree with a person over one thing does not mean I have to disagree with that person over everything. I'm sure this applies to supanovasp as well.

Does anyone actually have any other sources that this "Juan An" was the Chief Architect of the forbiddon city?

I thought Juan was a spanish name not a Vietnamese name?

Unfortunately, the above post is not directed to you, and I will not waste my time to argue with a person like you. Just look at yourself, you come to this forum and open your mouth and looking for argument and there you can spend your extra time on it. Unlike me, I have to work for my living, and I have no time at all to argue with you. Unless this is not online, I will spend sometime argue with you.

If he is trying to find trouble with the Viet, for sure your reply will be different.

I have watch you for a long time and I know what you want NQSH.

One thing I wanted to add, I am not here to argue with Vietnamese since its not worth for my time. You can extract the meaning of “its not worth for my time” if you research more about Vietnam and China today.

I have something else need to do in this forum. You can post what ever you want, just don’t expect me to reply you guys.

And what kind of a person am I? Is this all you can say? Can't you reason properly? Sorry but I also work for a living while studying also. If you are so busy with your life, you shouldn't be on this forum.

If he'd find trouble with fellow Vietnamese then I have to see what kind of problem it is. If I disagree with his point of view, of course I will debate with him, otherwise I will support him.

I have also watched you for a long time and found you to be very unreasonable and you are unworthy of a friend. Just need to look at how many truces we've had.

Read my above post again. I made it before you made this post.

Do you know why I post some negative stuff about chinese?

Because I really think some of the chinese in the chinese board think that they're superior to everybody. A well known fact is that China isn't a divine nation or a middle kingdom, and everybody that different from Chinese are naturally inferior.
A more well known fact is that ignorance and arrogance (Late ming dynasty to qing dynasty) made the chinese had to faced the nanjing massacre, the opium war etc.
Without silkroad, and allowing ideas from India and the West, Tang dynasty wouldn't be the most prosperous dynasty in china.

Looks like some Chinese aren't happy with these claims.

http://www.URL BAN.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3061

Anyone who knows what website I'm talking about can substitute URL BAN with the correct word.

I'm not referring to Huaren's post since he is just asking a question I'm referring to those that replied so far.

Ok, I only reply to you. I want to make one thing straight, I never claim that what China is a divine nation or what middle kingdom. All I am doing is stating the truth. So find that person who makes that claim not making negative post about Chinese just because of ONE Chinese make that claim. It is like when a Viet insulted the Chinese, than I should also insult the whole Vietnamese?

As for the Silk Road what so ever, some I don’t agree with you. However, I have no time to explain that just hopefully some highly knowledgeable person will explains the truth to you.

Ok, I think I explain everything.

My Chinese Nationalist comments were pointing to the replies of that topic Huaren's question and original post were valid to me.


http://www.korean-arts.com/about/age_of_celadon.htm

According to this China invented Porcelin not Vietnam so I have to debunk that claim too.

To the original poster, next time when you make claims can you please provide proof so that others won't laugh at us?

Ok so based on what I've researched.

-Vietnam invented casting technology for Chinese cannons but not the Cannon itself.

-Vietnam invented rice that grows twice as fast thus preventing famine in China.

-An Annamese Architecut might have been the Chief architect for the Forbiddon city and Peking, I'm not sure but then again if it came from the "Cambridge History of China" book then it might be true since Cambridge is one of the most famous universities in the world in Britain.

-Vietnam DID NOT invent the Compass, no Vietnamese claims that, I don't know why you brought it up.

-Vietnam DID NOT INVENT PORCELIN.

But my favourite Chinese invention is ice cream. I can't live with ice cream.

One person?

Supernova aren't you half Chinese? I'm not gonna attack you for it or anything like that, I'm just curious if you are.

As for the original posters claim about Vietnam inventing the prototype for dynamite that is waaaaaaaay off, since asians never invented dynamite and it wasn't invented until 1868 by Alfred Nobel(same guy who set up the nobel prize ceremony).

Find the post that I made which I stated “China is a divine nation” “China is the most powerful nation” “China is middle kingdom where other races are barbarian” Blah blah.

Or comment from other Chinese member

BTW, I don’t want the post from only one Chinese since you said “One Person?”, I want it at least of 3 to 10 Chinese who made this claim.

Also, I don’t see you correcting people who make claim about “Chinese are ugly and XXX races are beautiful?”

Who me? Well I don't make corrections because those happened before the truce and beauty is a matter of opinion, so to them they might think certain girls look more prettier while to Chinese they might think Chinese girls are the prettiest.

It depends and no one is right or wrong in judging beauty. I myself don't think Chinese girls are ugly. But I prefer to be with Vietnamese girls since I'm Vietnamese myself.

Mistake, I am replying supernavass

Well, congratulations on your latest innovation. You've just invented a new variety of baloney.

Do you also happen to have heard folk tales about Vietnamese having blond-haired Caucasoid ancestors from Siberia (with the obligatory mass rape by the Chinese)?

I thought those people were Hmong.

He's implying that those finds were far-fetched, much like the blond-haired Hmongs.

He was obviously joking. lol

I've NEVER heard those claims any Vietnamese before. So to all non Vietnamese please do not think that most Vietnamese think about those claims since I have never heard those claims even once in my life unti now.

Impressive, Vietnamese invented cannon around 1410s.
Unfortunately, Chinese had been using cannons since North Song Dynasty. That's about 400 years before Nguyen whatever guy.

Read my posts below his.

I corrected him and the Vietnamese guy he mentioned didn't invent the Chinese cannons but he modified them and casted them for the Ming Dynasty.

Casting prevents the cannons from exploding when fired.

Anyway I read all my corrections to their claims with proof and links I provided.

There was no European cannons. When North Song Dynasty was conquered by Jin dynasty, many Song gunpowder/cannon factories were captured. And when Ghengis Khan conquered the Jin dynasty, he took over those cannons and used them on the Russians. The Russians didn't even know what those were.

and the person who led the construction of Forbidden City was 蒯祥, from Suzhou.

So I guess that "Cambridge History of China" was wrong then, Supernovasp what do you think about the claim by the guy with Chinese characters since your the one that posted that scan about the Chief Architect being an Annamese(Vietnamese)? What do you think?

The main architects were Kuai Xiang 蒯祥, Kuai Yi 蒯義, Kuai Gang 蒯剛, Yang Qing 揚清, and Cai Xin 蔡信


Likely, unless Ming Shi was wrong.

Here's another source I found that Nguyen Trung was captured and forced to improve the cannons and artillery by the Yongle Ming emperor.

http://www.san.beck.org/AC2-China.html

"Firearms were improved after they captured an Annamese expert on muskets and artillery."

Hahhahhahaa... so funny DaMo.






Stupid joke.

Oooops, it's casting cannon then. I was wrong about it, and Byron already corrected it. So there, happy now?

Not nearly as stupid as the claims of the thread-starter. I think it is quite appropriate for the purposes of illustrating the culture of extreme victimhood-based revisionism to which some people subscribe.

You are one to talk Damo. It would have been a lot more straightforward if you had just simply stated that the original claims made in this thread are false. Your joke certainly didn't help this thread any.

you are not as articulate as most of the so call young vietnamese here

For someone who claims to have so little time, you sure use up a lot of posts justifying why you don't have time to argue.

Hic, Sorry Huaren. But I think I should tell you something about Chinese. First, I like Chinese as a language. I learn it , and love it . But, I dont like Chinese people. I tried talking with them but they were unfriendly. Even, My Chinese teachers are from Chinese .Its difficult to tell with her/him.

wo ming Zhou, jiao Do Juan . hen xihuan gen ni shou hua.