My rough summary from collecting internet sources.
Discuss anything you like.
Feel free to correct any mistake.
No flaming.

Victories, victories and more victories. After Ngo Quyen's victory in 939BC we Viets certainly developed a winning mentality, those arrogant bastards lined up for us to beat them.

we win some we lose some, however, most of the time we won against all the odds

South Vietnam wasn't a constitutional monarchy. It is the same as the american government systems. When you put the parenthesis (installed by USA), you didn't put "(installed by Comintern)" for the DRV. By the way, Communist is not a Dynasty. It is also not a form of government. It is an ideology. Why don't you catogrize it as "Totalitarian".

Tay son period the Qing never sent 200,000 into Vietnam, that would be a quater of the whole Qing forces. It was more around 20,000. Its exageration by Nguyen historians.

It could be sombody but Nguyen historians since theyr'e enemy of Tay Son.. most of the time nguyen historians downplayedd Tay Son's achievement

hahha yeah you are right, but isnt Emperior Hue real name is Nguyen Hue? so his last name is Nguyen too, but i am pretty the numbers of the Qing was an exaggeration, but from 200,000 to 20,000 is a little steep, i would say the Qing send about 100,000 soldiers or more

Qing and Nguyen were allies against the Tay Son. Nguyen tried to destroy Tay Son history as much as possible since they were their enemies.

Also this is published on the US Library of Congress Website.

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-14626.html



So according to Western academics it was about 100,000 Tay Son troops with 100 War Elephants against 200,000 Qing troops.

Nguyen Hue's original last name is Ho

The Qing was involved in many conflicts in that period, War with the Dzungars/Elueths around yili region, fighting the Ghurkas in Nepal and fighting in Burma.
They were all recorded and the Dzungars war was the most costly yet that didn't involve anywhere near 200,000 men.

Also from the records the Qing was actually surprised that the Vietnamese King came asking for help because they didn't expect it, so they rushed 8000 men into hanoi to put the King back onto the throne and then was ambushed at night and took 4000 casualties and fled, and that was that.

I don't know why Vietnamese history books claim that it was a planned full scale invasion with some 200,000 men when it clearly wasn't.

^Ok I just posted that 200,000 number sourced from the US Library of Congress.

If you claim that it isn't true, can you show us the number according to Qing Historians then?

As I posted above 8000.

Ok and where did you get 8,000 from? Clearly first you said 20,000 in your first post and now 8,000?

oh please, you know the Qing lie more than anything, that Emperor of yours named Qing Long, even listed Vietnam as one of his 10 great accomplishment, that is a bunch of BS i tell you, Nguyen Hue Whipped his @$$ handedly, and even that Nguyen Hue only listed that accomplishment as being 100th best on his list of accomplishments

Ok here my simple summary of what Qing records say.

1788, sixth month 53rd year of Qianlong reign King of Annam's Le dynasty came asking for help as a vassal state of Qing.

August Qianlong ordered the Viceroy of Two Guangs(Guang dong , Guang xi) to prepare for possible conflict.

October Qianlong gave the order to cross the border, Viceroy sun shi yi led 10,000 into annam, he placed 2000 near the border as support while led 8000 himself towards Hanoi.
The governor of Yunnan also led 8000 men into Annam as supply corps and set up 70 odd supply depots along the way because Annam is poor and the supplies will have to be brought in from China.

end of october the Qing army started to push southwards spreading news that they are 100,000 strong.
The Nguyen army set up defenses at (寿昌江、市球江、富良江)(I don't know what these rivers are.shouchang river, shiqiu river, fuliang river)

Mid November the Qing army attack across the river and defeats the Nguyen army who retreats, the Qing army enter Hanoi.

22november Sun shi yi reads out the emperial edict that Ly ..?(黎维祁)(Whats his vietnamese name?) as the king of annam.

阮惠(Nguyen hue) sends emisarries to Sun shi yi asking for surrender while prepares for battle, Sun shi yi becomes arrogant and completely neglicts defenses, On 1789's new years eve when the Qing army was celebrating the Nguyen army mounts a fierce attack and the Qing army falls into complete dissarray, sun shi yi retreats to 富良江(a river) with less then half his men. The governor of Yunnan who just arrived near Hanoi retreated after hearing the defeaat.

Qianlong stripes Sun shi yi of his post for his incompetence, 阮惠(Nguyen hue) enters Hanoi(its called 黎城 in chinese or Le city not sure if its actually Hanoi) and asks Qing for forgiveness.

April Qianlong invest 阮惠(Nguyen Hue) as the King of Annam, and 黎维祁(The defeated Vietnames king) and his family was brought to the capital(Beijing) and was made Han bannermen.

so according to Qing recordss it was 18,000 in total but 8000 actually saw any action.

^Wow the Qing must have been either extremely overconfident or smoking a lot of the Opium to send only 8000 troops to try to seize control of Vietnam against an army of about 100,000.

Whatever. You're still a sored a$$ loser

^Now now we should all act civilize here and listen to all versions of history.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions and listening to different view points.

I'm not sure if Qing records can be believed but Nguyen hue was certainly bull$hiting, he didn't have 100,000(probrably 60-70K) nor 100 war elephants and certainly didn't defeat 200,000 Qing army.

You're right Nguyen Hue didn't have 100,000 troops nor 100 war elephants, it was the Tay Son that did. Nguyen Hue was ALLIED with the Qing and fought against the Tay Son.

Ok

Qing faught against 阮惠(Nguyen Hue) to restore 黎维祁(Lê Chieu Thong) onto the throne.
How can Nguyen hue be allies of Qing? isn't he the leader of the Tay sons.

^The leader of Tay Son is Nguyen Hue and his two brothers, off course they're not allies of China. They defeat China and ripped the invading Siamese into pieces.

The invading Siamese were wiped out in just one battle: the Battle of Rach Gam–Xoai Mut

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rac...2%80%93Xoai_Mut

Hong Bang's capital is supposed to be in Phong Chau, dont know where that is, but around HN area.

^I'm seriously confused with the history of VietNam's captials.

Are you a dimwit? Do you know who is Nguyen Hue?

Eh Nguyen Hue and Nguyen Anh. Very similar names so mistakes do happen.

ahmm... dude. Nguyen Hue was the one of the leaders of the Tay Son army.

you meant Nguyen Anh, the traitor allied with Siam, France, and Qing to get his throne back. he called the French for their iron ships. then he called the Siams for their troops. and when the Qing attacked north Vietnam, he sent food supplies to help them.

^And both the Siamese and Qing armies were smashed to smithereens. lol

I don't know how much of that I can believe. It does seem reasonable that the Qing would say they are coming to Hanoi with 100,000 troops to scare the Tay Son, but in reality the number are less. But after reading the whole article, it seems biased and arrogant on part of Qing historian. They keep implying that the Vietnamese got victory because the Qing were busy celebrating New Year and that they were victorious with only 8,000 troops.

Overall, Asian histories are not to be trusted, because most of the numbers are bloated due to nationalism. 200,000 Qing troops might seems a lot, but the Chinese are capable of producing such numbers, but 8,000 troops are too little by any standard. The Chinese had history of warfare with Vietnam, they would know better than to underestimate the Vietnamese. They were on a mission to restore the Le, yet they came in with 8,000? Way too little I think.

No matter what the number is a victory is a victory.

In the Annals of Vietnam history, there were two Tets the Vietnamese people remember for a long time: it was the Tet that allowed emperor Quang Trung to reconquer our capital Hà-Nội in Tet Mậu Thân 1788 against the Qing and the Tết Mậu Thân in 1968 - Tet Offensive '68' in South Vietnam (It only comes back every sixty years ).
So DO TRUST Vietnam's Historians On This ! Disregard OTHERS !