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FKR
CAMBODIANS DEPORTED BY U.S.FACE HARSH WELCOME
Convicts return to forgotten land

By Matt McKinney,Globe Correspondent
The Boston Globe ,7/28/2002,p.A10

PHNOM PENH,Cambodia — The first convicted criminals deported from the United States to Cambodia are finding their new home lonely and bewildering,as they grope to find their place in a country they have not seen since childhood.

''Right now I'm just alone,''said Sor Vann,34,who lived in Texas.''I don't know anybody here. I'm just lost.''

Sor Vann is among six deportees sent to Phnom Penh last month under an agreement reached in March between the two countries for the eventual return of as many as 1,400 Cambodians convicted of serious crimes in the United States.Only native Cambodians who are not U.S. citizens can be deported.

Lingering memories of what they escaped as children make their return all the more frightening.

Many Cambodians who fled to the United States during the brutal late-1970s reign of the Khmer Rouge still regard the country as a place of random violence and danger,even though Cambodia has had relative peace for the first time in decades.

Government officials also worry about the safety of the deportees,after local media reports whipped up anxiety by calling them dangerous felons.Fearing that the six would be targeted by mobs,officials spirited them away upon their arrival and hid them at an undisclosed location for a week. No attacks have occurred,though the deportees have kept a low profile.

''We didn't know what was going to happen to us,''said Andy,32,one of the deportees. He declined to give his last name.

Andy's life reflects the dimensions of the Cambodian tragedy.He lost his father to war in the early 1970s,and lived in a Khmer Rouge camp for a few years before his family fled to Thailand in 1979.Just after arriving at the border refugee camps,his mother died from malnutrition.

In Dallas,Andy was convicted of helping three friends tie up and rob a man at gunpoint.He spent eight years in prison and detention by the Immigration and Naturalization Service..Andy hopes to find work,but Cambodia's economy offers few choices for all but the most well-connected job seekers.Those who are not farmers work as motorcycle-taxi drivers,or in hotels and restaurants.A handful of people work as staff or drivers for international relief organizations.

Complicating matters,the deportees speak some Khmer but do not consider themselves fluent, especially in reading and writing.

Until recently,Cambodia was one of
QUOTE
a handful of nations,including Laos,Vietnam and Cuba, that refused to accept deported criminals from the United States.
Cambodia agreed to take them back after the State Department threatened to withhold visas from Cambodians seeking to enter the United States,according to the former U.S.ambassador to Cambodia,Kent Wiedemann.

Other Cambodians scheduled for deportation remain in U.S.detention,either serving out criminal sentences or detained in centers run by the INS.There are no immediate plans to accept more deportees,although it is widely expected that more will be coming,according to Meach Sophana,deputy director of the Cambodian immigration department. Echoing the complaints of Cambodian-American leaders in U.S.communities,some leaders here say the deportations
should be halted.

''Even if they are a bad apple,they are a bad apple in the U.S.,''said Chea Vannath,president of the Center for Social Development in Phnom Penh.''

They are not regular immigrants.To remove them''from the U.S.''is to punish them twice.It's legal but it's not ethical.''

At the least,the deportees need a more structured program to help them integrate into Cambodian society,said Shannon Scott,an American law student on an internship here who is helping the deportees look for work.''We definitely need to have something more formal setup,'' she said.

The first set of deportees spent from 18 months to 10 years in U.S.prisons for crimes ranging from indecent exposure to bank robbery to aggravated assault.
Relatives took in four of the deportees,and two are staying with friends.They do not receive any assistance from the U.S.Embassy.

The deportees retained little of the cultural of their home.Andy said he is looking forward to the Khmer New Year festivities in the spring,when Cambodians typically spend a week with relatives at village homes playing games and eating.''This is going to be my first one over here,'' he said..

While Cambodians worry that the deportees may worsen lawlessness here,some of the deportees say they are only too happy to leave their criminal past behind.

''It's a new life.No record,no nothing.I'm like a newborn baby,''said Mao Chan,of
Seattle,who was convicted of bank robbery in the United States.

But Sor Vann,who was twice convicted of indecent exposure and spent 18 months in prison,still puzzles over the decision that left him estranged from his wife and two sons living near Houston.

''I have to start a new life here from scratch,''he said.

This story ran on page A10 of the Boston Globe on 7/28/2002.
©Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company.
angkorwat19
good post FKR. vietnam does not want to look bad so they refused to accept these vietnamese criminals. khmer govt. was pressured by the US govt. to accept the deported criminals.
akara
What?!? But this can't be! I mean....it would put all those things that Byron said in the $hitter! How can he be wrong?! Say it ain't so! LOL! embarassedlaugh.gif
FKR
I wish I can support you, Akara, embarassedlaugh.gif but the fact states that Vietnam refuses to take back its Vietnamese criminals from the United States. Now you understand why there are many Viets in the United States who rushed to become naturalized American citizens. The Viets know that in the future when the pressure is on, the Viet government will have to sign the repatriation law with the U.S. Anyway, I wish all those patriotic, nationalistic Viets would pay a visit to their country of Vietnam and never return to their host countries.
RockHeart
The majority of the Viets always deny to the International Law that condemn them are full of Criminal...They tried to cover up their Criminal by using all nasty tricks and pretend as they are nice to the nation. Actually, the Viets are so hungry to swallow the neighbor Lands all the times...I never trust and believe them for entirelife!!! They talk Blah! blah!blah!!...It seems look like as a professor....But if you certain deeper know them...it just a liar!!!

RockHeart,

:genius:
BishoujoHunter
Any country will not accept those criminals
Zultan
Uh oh, I've been neglecting to get my citizenship. After reading this post I guess I'm going to get it ASAP.
RockHeart
QUOTE (Zultan @ May 17 2004, 06:02 AM)
Uh oh, I've been neglecting to get my citizenship. After reading this post I guess I'm going to get it ASAP.

Now, How many years to become a citizenship??? Before the Law is limited for five years...But now i really don't know!!

RockHeart,

:genius:
Byron
Peace. Both Vietnamese and Cambodians contribute to their respective countries. We shouldn't be bickering about whose contributing more. icon_smile.gif
Kambolizhuz
QUOTE (Byron @ May 19 2004, 02:10 PM)
Hmm I guess the U.S put more pressure on Cambodia, because the Cambodian drop out rate and gangs are much more higher than Vietnamese in America.

Cambodians drop out of school and have a lower gpa than whites in highschool and are more likely to join a gang.

So no wonder the U.S pressured Cambodia so much to deport them back.

I mean Vietnamese have better jobs in America and have won many intellectual competitions like the Microsoft competition one recently.

While Cambodians don't contribute anything and really just make America a worse place to live with their gangs and high drop out rates so they can ask for welfare and crap.

I mean of course America would put more pressure on Cambodia, since Cambodians don't offer much to the U.S anyway. If I was an American I wouldn't want people who just drop out of school, do poorly in school, join gangs and don't accomplish anything useful to stay and I would try my best to pressure the country where these people are from to deport them back. LOL

Ummm... do you have any RECENT source because I know tht Khmer teens are getting out of it more of it and even it because of the Vietnam war and SOME Americans feel kind of shame for what they did. Beside that there more Vietnamese and they lived here longer so there really no comparision between Khmer and Viets. Khmer gangs are just a lot more scarier because most Vietnamese gangs are just Vietnamese and other asians while Khmer gangs has Hispanics and Blacks. There only about three big gangs that has Vietnamese and KHmer gangs together which are AP(asian pride), ABZ(asians boyz), and LCV(loas, cambodians,Vietnamese, the Vietnamese rapper Thai in this one).
P.S.
No I have no interest in gangs but I have some friends and family in gangs and I did a paper on it.
Byron
No more bickering. icon_smile.gif
Kambolizhuz
QUOTE (Byron @ May 19 2004, 07:41 PM)
lol Vietnamese and Cambodians came here at roughly the same time. So what if Vietnamese came here at MOST 5 years ahead. Wow what a big difference that is going to make. Fact is Vietnamese contribute a lot of where they go and win lots of awards. If you would like I will send you links to all awards Vietnaemse Americans have received.

Could you?? and send me the populations differences between Khmer and Vietnamese cause according to the Census Vietnamse is the SECOND most spoken Asian language, of course more ppl more of anything basically! Study NEVER say there more Khmer gang members it just say Khmer teen are more likely to be in gangs because of broken- families and low-expectations. The Vietnamese parents expectations from their kids is much HIGHER, i should know my dad raise us in Vietnamese culture and I can't even go out like my cousins. Another thing is that Vietnamese came form a Chinese culture and cared about their image and lived in a close-knit community while Khmer spread themsleves and don't give a damn what ppl think (like my mom) .

Dad: Better get straight A's and don't disgace the family name.

Mom: enjoy life, there time you have to work and you should also have fun, what the meaning of life when you have no fun, what with all the money when you are not happy?? Never listen what ppl say about you, goods(don't be stuck up) or bads(don't go up and beat some up esp. from a second source) don't take to the heart and always be yourself.
Byron
QUOTE (Kambolizhuz @ May 19 2004, 07:57 PM)
QUOTE (Byron @ May 19 2004, 07:41 PM)
lol Vietnamese and Cambodians came here at roughly the same time.  So what if Vietnamese came here at MOST 5 years ahead.  Wow what a big difference that is going to make.  Fact is Vietnamese contribute a lot of where they go and win lots of awards.  If you would like I will send you links to all awards Vietnaemse Americans have received.

Could you?? and send me the populations differences between Khmer and Vietnamese cause according to the Census Vietnamse is the SECOND most spoken Asian language, of course more ppl more of anything basically! Study NEVER say there more Khmer gang members it just say Khmer teen are more likely to be in gangs because of broken- families and low-expectations. The Vietnamese parents expectations from their kids is much HIGHER, i should know my dad raise us in Vietnamese culture and I can't even go out like my cousins. Another thing is that Vietnamese came form a Chinese culture and cared about their image and lived in a close-knit community while Khmer spread themsleves and don't give a damn what ppl think (like my mom) .

Dad: Better get straight A's and don't disgace the family name.

Mom: enjoy life, there time you have to work and you should also have fun, what the meaning of life when you have no fun, what with all the money when you are not happy?? Never listen what ppl say about you, goods(don't be stuck up) or bads(don't go up and beat some up esp. from a second source) don't take to the heart and always be yourself.

Here read some RECENT Vietnamese accomplishments right here just to name a few.

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7816

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7742

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7599

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7606

Who cares if it says Khmers are more likely to drop out and join a gang? That means it is measuring the average Cambodian, so population doesn't make a difference as it shouldn't.

As for Cambodians not pressuring their kids as much? What's so special about that? Black and hispanics parents let their kids go wild as well and that's why they end up in gangs and in jail as well.

Saying that your parents let do whatever you want is just an excuse for lazyness.

Even when both countries were colonized by the French, the French called the Vietnamese "industrialist" while they called the Khmers "lazy".

Which is why the French fought so hard to try to take Vietnam back but they didn't really give two craps about Cambodia, since Vietnam was the true gem of Indochina. lol

What accomlishments have Khmer Americans made?
Kambolizhuz
QUOTE


How do compared that to Khmer when THERE NO DATA TO COMPARED!!!

QUOTE
Who cares if it says Khmers are more likely to drop out and join a gang? That means it is measuring the average Cambodian, so population doesn't make a difference as it shouldn't.

Population makes all the differences, and that how you can compare and contrast!!
Just b/c someone join a gang does no make them a drop-out.
QUOTE
As for Cambodians not pressuring their kids as much? What's so special about that? Black and hispanics parents let their kids go wild as well and that's why they end up in gangs and in jail as well.

It KNOWN facts that father-less childs, broken family and I might add that Khmer war more recent and today generation saw a more than Vietnamese youth so a lot of them have the mentality that every man for themself.

QUOTE
Saying that your parents let do whatever you want is just an excuse for lazyness.

Even when both countries were colonized by the French, the French called the Vietnamese "industrialist" while they called the Khmers "lazy".

What does lazyness have to do with gangs???
Maybe the Khmer like to have more fun than Vietnamese and they don't want the french rule, reverse p.
QUOTE
What accomlishments have Khmer Americans made?

THE COUNTLESS DONUT SHOPS in Cali and other states! Easy job and can have fun at the same time. My uncle own one in Colo. and that contibute to the American econ.
Hey I have straight A's and Khmer Pharmactist is large in numbers now!
Don't even say sh*T you haven't experience or seen.
You haven't even meet more than 10 Khmer ppl in person so shut up.
Thay_
To Kambolizhuz,

Ignore that MO??, he like to make claim that his RACE is "superior" than any others. He obviously haven't lived in the town such as "little saigon" in Santa Ana, California most Viet kids join GANG.

Now FKR posted about Viet gang and how dangerous they are...and what happen? He just move away from the topic and talk about HIGH SCHOOL drop out rate.

Now, if VIETS are better than KHMER, what I do say to those VIETS who ask me for HELP in SCHOOL? If HE said that Khmer race are less superior than Viet, let say dum...so it would make those VIETS who ask me questions DUMMER???

DUM...AND DUMMER??? Hmmm....that's nice.... beerchug.gif

HE IS UP FOR GOOGLE again.... embarassedlaugh.gif

Gang banging occur in ever ethnic....
Byron
PEACE
FKR
Hello All Visiting Readers, it looks like the braggart racist Bryan Pham who has been overstaying his residency in Canada is acting up once again.

In this post, I will CONTRAST between his ethnocentric fantasy statement with the REALITY of the Vietnamese like him. embarassedlaugh.gif

This is what he recently wrote:

QUOTE
I mean of course America would put more pressure on Cambodia, since Cambodians don't offer much to the U.S anyway. If I was an American I wouldn't want people who just drop out of school, do poorly in school, join gangs and don't accomplish anything useful to stay and I would try my best to pressure the country where these people are from to deport them back. LOL


Well folks, it looks like his Vietnamese criminal friends will support his view after all. I say it is time for Bryan Pham and his ALL his Vietnamese criminal friends to pack up and leave for the country of Vietnam as soon as they can. embarassedlaugh.gif

Vietnamese Criminals Are the societal PROBLEM in countries of United States, Australia, and Canada. Just to mention 3 host countries for now.

Please below about the Bryan Pham's successful intelligent Vietnamese Criminal friends.


QUOTE
Today, in the United States, ...it is possible to find known Vietnamese war criminals visiting, enjoying our freedoms and unconcerned with being punished for their crimes.
Background of Vienamese Criminals

The Coordinated Law Enforcement Unit or CLEU, is police partnership involving the Vancouver City Police, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and other area police agencies in the Lower Mainland of British Columbia. One of the primary focuses of CLEU in recent years, has been to combat the alarming growth in Asian crime, of which Vietnamese criminals have come to be it's chief protagonist. CLEU for the purposes of this learning material, provided some insights into their dealings with Vietnamese criminals in the greater Vancouver area.
CLEU recognizes that Vietnamese criminals can to some extent, be separated into those of South Vietnamese and North Vietnamese origins. Of these, the North Vietnamese, or persons from the present Republic of Vietnam, represent the greater majority of the criminal element in Canada. One CLEU officer described these criminals as; "the most tenacious, extraordinarily focused criminals ever introduced into Canada". Vietnamese criminals are involved in a wide range of criminal activity. Murders, robberies, home invasions, extortion, property houses, counterfeit money and credit cards, drug traf*!#@ing, prostitution, and marijuana cultivation to highlight their major activities. Many Vietnamese criminals were cultivated during their internment in refugee camps, where along with the legitimate law abiding population, gang members and criminals of all sorts and kinds thrived in the oppressive atmosphere. Other criminals have also entered Canada through regular immigration channels, through both legitimate and illegitimate means.
Vietnamese gangs soon proved themselves so ruthless and effective that they intimidated other more established Asian gangs, either pushing them aside, or forming mutually beneficial alliances. It is claimed that even the notorious Hells Angels motor cycle gang has been forced to develop a working relationship with Vietnamese gangs in their previously unchallenged control over the drug trade. It is, in fact, now believed that Vietnamese criminals, by and large, now control the drug trade in the Lower Mainland of B.C.
Vietnamese criminals range widely, and there are many examples of Vietnamese criminals from Vancouver committing crimes throughout California, Western Canada, and even out as far as the United States eastern sea board, or Toronto and Montreal, before returning home. This mobility, coupled with a total contempt for what they perceive as a weak and ineffectual criminal justice system, and a benign sense of concern for their own safety, as well as a preparedness to use vicious and brutal methods to achieve their aims, makes them a dangerous adversary.
Other countries most notably, the United States and Australia also have well established, equally effective and deadly, Vietnamese criminal networks and street gangs. The traffic in heroin is widely connected with Vietnamese criminals today throughout the world. The experiences of police with Vietnamese criminals wherever they exist, appear to have many factors in common. http://www.rcmp-learning.org/vietnam/module_d.htm
Byron
PEACE
FKR
QUOTE
At least the gang rate isn't as high as Cambodians and Vietnamese better in school on average as well and are the least to drop out.

I wasn't arguing that Vietnamese don't commit crimes, I was arguing that Cambodians commit more crimes. lol FKR your a funny man.


So Bryan Pham, do you want to tempt with your statement? Vietnamese criminals in the United States are one of the FBI's top priorities. The fact is the Vietnamese communities produce more criminals than the Cambodian communities. So you are really tempting me with your dumb statement above. I guess you want me to expose your Vietnamese criminal friends. From fraud by Vietnamese doctors to white-collar crimes by Vietnamese workers to organized crimes by Vietnamese gangs, your Vietnamese criminal friends are very well represented.
If you tempt me again and continue to make stupid comment without regarding the reality, then I am afraid that I have to expose your unscrupulous Vietnamese criminals.

In addition, I don't see any report having major issue with the Cambodians either in the United States or Canada, but I see numerous online reports about your Vietnamese criminals. embarassedlaugh.gif
DAI_VIET
Man, some of these dudes just don't quit.
Jayson
Have you guys notice that all FKR topics are related to Vietnamese/Vietnam? lol, we're the center of his universe.
sailador
why is FKR claiming cambodians to be the modelminority...anyways..here is an article about cambodians and vietnamese beerchug.gif

By Sothida Tan
The Khmer Institute, University of California at Los Angeles
2000

Juvenile crimes among Southeast Asian youths have become a major concern for the Asian American community. Southeast Asian “trouble” teens are involved in criminal acts that have ranged from petty theft to violent gang activity. Widespread concern has prompted attention from law enforcement agencies, the media and community leaders. Since 1980, major urban cities have seen an increase of criminal activity, especially among Vietnamese and Cambodian youths (Sullivan). In recent years a rapid increase among Vietnamese and Cambodian gangs has increased their membership to about 15% of the 200 gangs in the area (Northeast Asian Weekly). Enforcement agencies have speculated that the wave of crimes are attributable to the population swell of Southeast Asian refugees beginning in the mid 70’s and through the early 80’s (Weikel). Once viewed as a traditional , passive group of peoples, many researchers are trying to understand the delinquency patterns among Vietnamese and Cambodian youth. Although both groups have been involved in gang violence, one group is at greater risk of entering a world of robberies, shootings, rapes and homicide. Vietnamese teens share similarities with Cambodian teens, yet Cambodian youths are more susceptible to entering a criminal lifestyle. Cambodian teens face cultural and societal obstacles that perpetuate a cycle of failed dreams, empty promises and lost hope for the future. In these cases, gangs seem to be the only alternative. Khmer youths face various barriers: a past genocide, urban poverty, family fragmentation, education struggles, language problems, peer harassment and downward assimilation that hinder their social development and can contribute to society’s delinquency problem.

Vietnam and Cambodia are two neighboring countries that share boundaries and some cultural similarities. Both were embroiled in civil war during the 1960's and 70's that pushed thousands of residents to flee as refugees. When the Vietnam War ended in 1975, over a hundred thousand Vietnamese western sympathizers emigrated to the United States. The United States Office of Refugee Resettlement reports 125,000 Vietnamese refugees arrived at that time. A mere 4,600 Cambodians arrived in the United States during the same year (Refugee Reports-1993). Those Cambodians that were lucky to escape the Khmer Rouge regime were part of the upper and middle class city dwellers as well as U.S. alliance workers. For four terrifying years, the communist insurgency took power in Cambodia and is responsible for the horrific genocide of an estimated 1.7 million people. After the Vietnamese invasion in Cambodia on 25 December 1978, many Cambodians fled to the Thai border where refugee camps were ultimately set up (Kiernan-450). Untrusting of the Vietnamese powers, many Cambodians chose to live in the camps under poor sanitary and unsafe conditions rather than remain or return to Cambodia. The bulk of Cambodian refugees did not emigrate to the United States until the early 1980's. In all about 150,000 Cambodian refugees have resettled in America. More Vietnamese refugees continued to arrive in the States under the U.S. Refugee Act of 1980 as well, but one given year, 1975, saw the single greatest influx of Vietnamese refugees (Refugee Reports -1993). The reports diagram the similarity of two Southeast Asian peoples as they fled war ravaged homelands. The numbers also illustrate the different migratory patterns of the two countries in which Vietnamese people had enough citizens to reestablish a community and welcome subsequent Vietnamese refugee immigrants as early as 1975.

Cambodians on average are more likely to be drawn into gangs than their Vietnamese peers because of the adverse effects of the Khmer Rouge genocide on their mental health. Many of these youths had witnessed deadly beatings, murders, sickness and starvation, which left them with mental and emotional scars. For instance, three Cambodian gang members of the Asian Boyz have been convicted for their roles in a 1995 crime spree that began with an ambush against a rival gang and claimed seven lives (Larrubia). Psychiatrist Dr. Williams Sacks testified that one of the defendants, Roatha Buth, suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder resulting from the violence he experienced under Pol Pot’s rule. Buth was 6 when he was in Cambodia, but he had recurring nightmares up until age 9 of cannibalism and the Khmer Rouge guarding a boat of dead bodies (Larrubia). Severe mental health conditions affect Cambodian teenagers and distort their reality. Researchers commonly report on “the overwhelming incidence of recurrent nightmares and sleep disturbances among refugees, especially concentration camp survivors” – symptoms often considered the markers of post-traumatic stress disorder (Rozee et al-18). Also, exposure to the Khmer Rouge and camp life can desensitize an individual’s regard for human life. When one witnesses the “killing fields” first hand, violence in America doesn’t have the same shocking effects. Margie deMonchy, a social worker who has worked in refugee camps along the Thai-Cambodian border, expressed the following concern: “The 16-year-olds grew up under Pol Pot. That is significant. We term that era a holocaust…life and death take on a whole different perspective” (Hart). In a study conducted on Cambodian children in America, researchers correlated “the extreme suffering students endured as children under the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia” with a likelier display of deviant behavior (Sack et al-380).

In another recent trial, two Cambodian youths are pending sentences in the slaying deaths of five family members during a home invasion (Grenada). Run Chhoun and Samreth Pan are responsible for the torture and killings of a Vietnamese family in San Bernardino. The two teens are alleged leaders of the notorious Tiny Rascals gang. The multiple killings has sparked attention as “the bloodiest murder in San Bernardino history.” Arn Shorn, a social worker, blames it on the Khmer Rouge: “They have the Khmer Rouge poison now. That poison uses guns to solve problems, and violence and intimidation to overturn the traditional order – it represents an existence these gang members’ parents thought they had left behind" (Isett). Attorneys for Chhoun and Pan described to the jury the tragic upbringing of the boys under the Khmer Rouge and the unprepared life they had to endure when they resettled in the United States (Grenada). All four Cambodian youth gang members share experiences of the Cambodian genocide as well as shortcomings in the United States.

Cambodians who have emigrated to the U.S. during the 1980's are predominantly from a poor, rural background (Smith-Hefner-9). They have primarily been resettled in congested, poor, low-income housing projects. The neighborhoods are characterized as “ghettos” and are usually crime-infested. Parents also suffer from mental health problems caused by the genocide and therefore cannot fully participate in attentive parenting, despite being concerned about their children. San Diego University sociology professor Kenji Ima says that “even if they wanted to be good parents, they can’t, they are emotionally distraught and don’t have the energy to be parents” (Sullivan). Roatha Buth, the convicted Asian Boyz gang member, had expected the United States to be an “American dream” but his family escaped the “killing fields” and came to the killing streets. They dwelled in a housing project in a Latino neighborhood where he shared a one-bedroom apartment with his mother and sister. The three had to collect aluminum cans from garbage bins for extra money (Larrubia).

The Cambodian Population Profile for Los Angeles county in 1990 found the per capita income of Cambodians to be $4,639, the median household income to be $17,343, and 46% percent of Cambodians to be living in poverty. In comparison, the median income for Vietnamese families almost doubled at $30,925 and the percentage of Vietnamese families living in poverty was 27%, almost half the level for Cambodians (Cambodian Population Profile-1990). Generally, Vietnamese families have been able to raise themselves above the poverty level and governmental assistance. Vietnamese groups have been here longer and can be expected to have a higher employment rate (Strand et al-116). Also refugees from Vietnam tended to come from a more urban background and were generally literate and active in the workforce back in Vietnam. These characteristics enable Vietnamese refugees to more easily transition into the American workforce (Hein-138). In contrast, Cambodians have a harder time transitioning into the American workplace because of their rural background and limited education (Hein-139). Cambodian families are poorer and are marginalized in society as they constitute the “have-nots.” They are at risk of losing their children to gang activities such as robberies that can bring the gang member instant riches. A young Cambodian male describes the “lure of the streets – the cars, fancy clothing, and expensive jewelry [as] far more appealing than his parents' humble rural ways” (Isett).

Most Cambodian refugees have lost immediate family members during the war. Family fragmentations contribute to a lack of role models for Cambodian youths. In the documentary “A.K.A. Don Bonus,” a Cambodian-American youth named Don seeks a role model to replace his father whom he lost at an early age to the Khmer Rouge. The father figure becomes his oldest brother. Although Don does not participate in gang activity, his depression deepens when he feels he is losing his eldest brother to a busy work life and a new wife and child. This depressed condition can lead, and in many other instances have led, youths to seek a surrogate family life in gangs. Art Chhay, a former gang member reflects on his past lifestyle and reveals, “I see people, like, they have their real dad. They have the right to call him ‘dad.’ That’s their real father. That’s blood. I see people like that, and sometimes I get depressed” (Harris). Lack of parental figures and supervision can often leave children vulnerable to the lure of gangs.

Often times even youths that do have a mother or father rarely see their parent(s). Because of the constraints of trying to make ends meet, some parents work two jobs holding 16-hour shifts (Holt). For families who endure illness and financial problems, gangs provide a family network support for the youngsters. In fact, younger members often times refer to the older individuals as “bang” – which translates to older sibling in Khmer (Smith-Hefner-190). Cambodian parents are as deeply concerned about the well being of their children as any other parents, but their own psychological traumas and day-to-day struggles may affect their parenting skills and involvement in their children's lives. In a 1985 California survey conducted on the mental health of Southeast Asian refugees, 84% of Cambodian households had at least one member under a physician’s care in comparison to 45% percent of Vietnamese households (Reader-W4-The Refugee Context-21). Most Vietnamese came to the United States with intact families, and if they did not, they soon reunited with other members through secondary migrations, forming strong distinctive Vietnamese communities in the process (Zhou et al-223). The lack of intact families as well as significant community cohension are other factors that put Cambodian youth more at risk of joining gangs.

Difficulty in school is yet another factor which sets apart Cambodian and Vietnamese youth. A study done in San Diego found the GPA of Cambodian youths to be well below the white majority average, whereas Vietnamese youths generally performed above the white majority average. Many Cambodian students in the 1980's entered the American school system at the age of 14 or 15 with minimal formal education and no command of the English language (Hart). Many of them were not literate in their native language and they struggled extensively in the American school system. The frustration and embarrassment from peers is perhaps one reason why Cambodian teens have the highest high school dropout rate among Southeast Asian refugees. The figures are alarming and threaten Cambodian youths with larger problems as they grow up in society. Most Cambodians feel the high school dropout rate for teens is part of a larger systematic societal problem that attracts youths to seek out gangs and commit crimes (Hart).

Some Cambodian teens sought refuge in gang life for protection. Sociology professor Kenji Ima and Union of Pan-Asian Communities social worker Bounhong Khommarath trace gang involvement of Cambodians in San Diego back to 1988. During these early years, Cambodian teens were harassed by Black and Latino gang members (Sullivan). The Cambodian teens decided to form their own protection group. They developed hand signals, tagged and created their own turf. Nevertheless, there is a stark difference between these early Cambodian gangs and their Vietnamese counterparts in San Diego County. The Vietnamese gangs are involved in crimes that have caused the San Diego Police Department to keep a close watch. In contrast, the Cambodians had simply created a group to protect themselves from other dangerous groups. As one Cambodian youth describes, “I joined the Black Cambodian Killers to protect myself and my people. Others were fighting us, and we fought back. In 1982, we had 20 people—they were my friends, and we were alone” (Isett). They were involved in activities that distinguish themselves but they were not necessary criminal in nature. Unfortunately, many of these innocently created protection groups have turned to gang violence and crimes.

Assimilation and role reversals has had a detrimental effect on the Cambodian community as well. The “new individualism” found in American society is not characteristic of the Buddhist teachings that play a major role in Cambodian life (Smith-Hefner-198). The older and younger generations are experiencing a conflict of values as one seeks to preserve and the other wants to break free of traditional Cambodian norms. Rona Field, a psychologist who has worked with Cambodian gang members, stated that these youth are “essentially torn loose” and uncertain of their identity (Harris). Gang specialists say gang life can sometimes start at home when there is a lack of parental control (Harris). Cambodian parents are used to disciplining their children through corporal punishment, but in the United States alarm of child abuse rings out. Parents afraid of the American system refrain from physical discipline and feel as if they have lost control over their children. Some Cambodian children who arrived with their families at an early age picked up English first and in turn must translate for their parents. This can sometimes pose a problem as children are then able to invert the traditional family power structure and lose respect for their elders. They are used to translating for their parents in grocery stores, welfare offices and the school. Parents feel that they cannot impart cultural norms like “obey your parents” because of an unbalanced transfer of power. Cambodian parents feel they have lost control over their future.

The hope for tomorrow’s Cambodian generation is not dim nor is it over. Gang violence is also a societal problem and must be dealt with through government-funded prevention programs. The problem is not “fixed” when a teen criminal is locked up. More awareness needs to be raised in the communities as well as at the state and national level. Intervention programs that are culturally sensitive and aimed at education, awareness and preventive measures can help Cambodian teens who are at risk of criminal activity. Cambodian community centers that mix the best of traditional and Western values can reeducate the youths and politicize and empower them with knowledge. Art Chhay, a former gang member of Asian Boyz, has gradually moved from the “gangsta” life. He writes poems about the destruction of gang life instead of violent rap lyrics. Instead of selling illegal substances, he sells street clothing that he has designed. Chhay today counsels young Cambodians to stay out of gangs and crimes instead of recruiting gang members (Harris). Many Cambodian teens are “tired” or hurt by the violent lifestyles but they need guidance and support to move out of the “old” ways and into a new life. Cambodian parents, elders and community leaders must join forces in saving and building a stronger future.

Bibliography
Grenda, Tim. “Two Men Face Trial In 5 San Bernardino Killings.” The Press Enterprise. April 19, 1999. Westlaw Program.

Haldane, David. “Rise of Gangs Alarms Orange County.” Los Angeles Times. May 31, 1992. Westlaw Program.

Harris, Dan. “A War Sears Another Generation Some Say the Horror of the “Killing Fields” is Echoed in Gang Violence on America’s Streets.” The Boston Globe. November 28, 1999. Westlaw Program.

Hart, Jordana. “Cambodian Refugees are Being Preyed Upon by Youth Gangs.” The Boston Globe. July15, 1990. Westlaw Program.

Hein, Jeremy. From Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. Twayne Publishers. New York.1995.

Isett, Stuart H. “From Killing Fields to Mean Streets.” World Press Review. December 1, 1994. Westlaw Program.

Kiernan, Ben. The Pol Pot Regime. Yale University Press. New York. 1996.

Larrubia, Evelyn. “Leader of Asian Boyz Convicted of 3 Murders.” Los Angeles Times. March 2, 1999. Westlaw Program.

Smith-Hefner, Nancy. Khmer American. University of California Press. Los Angeles. 1999.

Strand, Paul J. et al. Indochinese Refugees in America. Duke University Press. North Carolina. 1985.

Sullivan, Mark T. “Gangs Growth Here Rooted in Southeast Asia.” The San Diego Union-Tribune. August 12, 1991. Westlaw Progam.

Takaki, Ronald. From Exiles to Immigrants. Chelsea House. New York. 1995.

Weikel, Dan. “Crime and the Sound of Silence Gang Activity.” Los Angeles Times. October 21,1990. Westlaw Program.

Zhou, Min et al. Growing Up American. Russell Sage. New York. 1998.

“Keep the Focus on Violence Prevention.” Northwest Asian Weekly. October 11, 1996. Westlaw Program.

Course Reader. Asian American Studies 197B. Winter 2000.
FKR
embarassedlaugh.gif Hahahah. Take your best shot at FKR.

Let me see YOU have one ONE STUDY+ONE INDIVIDUAL COMMENT+ONE COMMENT FROM THE AUTHOR. Now you think that you can talk about the Cambodian in general??? If you are contemplating it, then ALL Vietnamese would be criminals because the Vietnamese are the societal concerns in the United States, Canada, and Australia.

If you would like to see evidence, please let me know. I will be glad to post it up for you enjoyment.
DAI_VIET
Exellent article sailador. Now let's get the hell out of here and defend Saigon before FKR raises his army and invade south Vietnam again. But just read my signature FKR.

beerchug.gif
vIeTpRidEs_wOrLdWiDe
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 19 2004, 11:56 PM)
Exellent article sailador. Now let's get the hell out of here and defend Saigon before FKR raises his army and invade south Vietnam again. But just read my signature FKR.

beerchug.gif

lolz Dai_Viet the invasion will fail !! embarassedlaugh.gif
Kambolizhuz
I already read that article and READ the citiations! The sudies were in the 1990's!! This is 5-14 years later thing changes esp. in a gang when a gang member reach 20's or have a kid they are considered an o'G and they don't evolved themselves in gang anymore. Notice why gang crimes are commited by teens??? They have to get more members and now most Khmer teens are not into that anymore.

QUOTE
Wow lots of Khmers own Donut shops. That's a huge accomplishment.
Hell yea it fun and easy to do, and you HAVE A LIFE.

BULLSH*T Vietnamese came to America like 2 decaded be4 Cambodians, we only arrive in the 1980's and a lot more in the early 90's when gangs were a big thing and it started in Long Beach, Cali(biggest Khmer pop. in the U.S.) as a protection against the Hispanic gang East Longos.

QUOTE
Oh and the Khmer war was more recent. lol Oh yeah the Vietnam war ended in 1975 and the Khmer war ended in just 15 days in 1979. Wow the Khmer war was more recent by 4 years. Oh yeah that 4 years really made a difference. 
War and genocide a big different and Khmer had to lived in Refugee camps unlike the Vietnamese. Because my family came in 1994!! Some cambodians want to go back and while others had to wait to decided what to do.
QUOTE
A study done in San Diego found the GPA of Cambodian youths to be well below the white majority average, whereas Vietnamese youths generally performed above the white majority average.
It say GPA NOT drop out rate and like I said b4 Khmer like to HAVE FUN. My friend Huong never miss a day of school even when she sick but me I ditch quite a bit but still maintain a 4.0 GPA
Vietnamese writing is also turn to the roman alphabet while Khmer is not so it harder to translate. I never say there less Khmer gang members but the drop out rate like Byron think is wrong.
I just say that more population more differences like I know more Vietnamese teen mom oppose to Khmer teen moms.
Byron
k
Kambolizhuz
QUOTE (Byron @ May 20 2004, 08:03 PM)
QUOTE (Kambolizhuz @ May 20 2004, 07:58 PM)
I already read that article and READ the citiations! The sudies were in the 1990's!! This is 14 years later thing change.

QUOTE
Wow lots of Khmers own Donut shops. That's a huge accomplishment.
Hell yea it fun and easy to do, and you HAVE A LIFE.

BULLSH*T Vietnamese came to America like 2 decaded be4 Cambodians, we only arrive in the 1980's and a lot more in the early 90's when gangs were a big thing and it started in Long Beach, Cali(biggest Khmer pop. in the U.S.) as a protection against the Hispanic gang East Longos.

QUOTE
Oh and the Khmer war was more recent. lol Oh yeah the Vietnam war ended in 1975 and the Khmer war ended in just 15 days in 1979. Wow the Khmer war was more recent by 4 years. Oh yeah that 4 years really made a difference. 
War and genocide a big different and Khmer had to lived in Refugee camps unlike the Vietnamese. Because my family came in 1994!! Some cambodians want to go back and while others had to wait to decided what to do.
QUOTE
A study done in San Diego found the GPA of Cambodian youths to be well below the white majority average, whereas Vietnamese youths generally performed above the white majority average.
It say GPA NOT drop out rate and like I said b4 Khmer like to HAVE FUN. My friend Huong never miss a day of school even when she sick but me I ditch quite a bit but still maintain a 4.0 GPA
Vietnamese writing is also turn to the roman alphabet while Khmer is not so it harder to translate. I never say there less Khmer gang members but the drop out rate like Byron think is wrong.
I just say that more population more differences like I know more Vietnamese teen mom oppose to Khmer teen moms.

How the hell did Vietnamese immigrant two decades ahead? We came here in 1975 and my parents came here in 1980 and I was born in 1983. If the Khmers came here in the 80's then they came here at the same time then. Also Vietnamese came here in the 90's as well.

You also say Vietnamese didn't have to stay in refugee camps? What the hell? My dad was in a refugee camp as a boat person in Malaysia for 4 years. They only gave him canned fish to eat for the whole 4 years and he told me how uncomfortable it was to stay there.

Also the Malaysians were muslim and warned him that if they caught him eating pork they would beat him up.

Also my dad got robbed by Thai pirates as well.

Please don't make up stories about Vietnamese refugees not suffering and having some easy travel as refugees when they clearly did not as documented by many sources and anyone who knows anything about the boat people know how much they sufferered to get here.

Most Cambodians HAD to stay in Refugee camp 10+ in contrast the short time with Vietnamese. You mean boat ppl??
Well I don't know about Vietnamese-Canadian but Vietnamese-American came in the 70's and 80's because American "felt bad" fo innocence women and childrens.
But Vietnamese came in large numbers, There were only a few 100's of Cambodian that start coming in the 90's. Well most Vietnamese I spoken to came in the 70's. There a few that are 3-4 generations and grandparents came in the late 60's.

*notice I didn't talk about SUFFERING because there less Cambodian who came as boat ppl, I know the story, blah blah, but Cambodian refugee were supported by the U.N. more (i think) camps were set up in Thailand, Phillipineses etc.
because I came to the U.S. by airplanes.
Byron
DELETE.
Byron
Vietnamese boat people came here by boat and got mugged and raped by pirates.
TDscorpion
I just try to be fair here... We Viets came here (100,000 + in 1975) Most live in the city and somewhat educated. While The Khmers came to the US in 1975 about 4,000 + . In the late 70's We came to the US with large number. While the Khmers elites are killed by the KR. Most of the Khmer survived are somewhat lack of education due to war and other circumstances. In the 90's we came here mostly
through family reunion and our VN families are somewhat intact ... While the Khmers have to endured the horror, the ordeals of wars, the killings and most of Khmer families are fragmented and over all... the number of people in the US is about 1 mil + and the Khmer is 200,000 +...
FKR
Thank you TDScorpion for your just fairminded comment. You are one true wonderful person listed in my book.
Jayson
So you're basically saying that most cambodians who came here are stupid/uneducated cambodians? That explains it all. lol.

No wonder FKR is so unintelligent.. embarassedlaugh.gif
Nam Quoc Son Ha
No need for the flame war Cuong,

But yeah, Vietnamese didn't arrive that much earlier than Cambodians. Let's just compare two Australian born Vietnamese and Cambodian kids in Australia. I've noticed that the Cambodian kid is half as keen as the Vietnamese one when it comes to academic aspiration.

There is no excuse for being the later one. If you have the will, you will overcome obstacles.
transtic
^thats true. In my year level at school there weren't that many Asians. Outta the Cambodians and Vietnamese, there were two Cambodians (inc me), and one Chinese/Cambodian. There were around 6 Vietnamese people and 1 Cantonese/Vietnamese. This was out of 187 students mind you, and we made up around 60% of the asians in total.

Anyway, at the end of year 12..
the Cambodian results were approx: 92, 74, 45. avg: 70.3ish
the Vietnamese results were approx: 88, 84, 84, 73, 66, 51. avg: 74.3

Make of that what you will. Though I must say that my school wasn't exactly accademically revered.

edit: the guy who got 92 worked his butt off though.

most of the people who got 60 - 75 were those who took Arts/Media subjects. Their scores were quite irrelevent in their final placements because their University placement didn't depend much on their score, but rather their work folio. Arts subjects were also marked down quite substantially too.. some of them by a margin of 5 to 8 points out of 50... O_o... you do the maths..

oh, and another thing was.. our system depended on how our school did on average compared to other schools.. and we were scaled accordingly.. which was pretty unfair to some. I'd say that everyone would have got at least 5% more if our school on average was better. like.. 1/3 of us got less than 40, and less 1/4 of us got over 70.. :S pretty scary stuff.
jubejube
QUOTE (Byron @ May 19 2004, 10:09 PM)
LOL damn. I'm comparing common Cambodian gangs and thugs who terrorize the non Cambodian people and your using Vietnamese war criminals who committed war crimes IN VIETNAM and not in their host countries.

As for Vietnamese smuggling drugs, yeah they smuggle them INTO Vietnam so the crimes they do mostly only affect other Vietnamese.

At least the gang rate isn't as high as Cambodians and Vietnamese better in school on average as well and are the least to drop out.

I wasn't arguing that Vietnamese don't commit crimes, I was arguing that Cambodians commit more crimes. lol FKR your a funny man.

perhaps in america. in canada, i'd say that viets are more prone to join gangs and cause trouble. lol....take a look at this video. fresh from the toronto ghetto.
Viets embarassedlaugh.gif
of course, this is only based on what i've seen. in reality, i'm sure that gang influence is equally blind to all colours and divisions.
TheSoulTaker
That video is very discriminating towards all race... so racist and so gay. I think it makes them tough to pick on little kids.
Johnny1984
QUOTE (jubejube @ Jun 2 2004, 01:03 AM)
QUOTE (Byron @ May 19 2004, 10:09 PM)
LOL damn.  I'm comparing common Cambodian gangs and thugs who terrorize the non Cambodian people and your using Vietnamese war criminals who committed war crimes IN VIETNAM and not in their host countries.

As for Vietnamese smuggling drugs, yeah they smuggle them INTO Vietnam so the crimes they do mostly only affect other Vietnamese.

At least the gang rate isn't as high as Cambodians and Vietnamese better in school on average as well and are the least to drop out.

I wasn't arguing that Vietnamese don't commit crimes, I was arguing that Cambodians commit more crimes.  lol FKR your a funny man.

perhaps in america. in canada, i'd say that viets are more prone to join gangs and cause trouble. lol....take a look at this video. fresh from the toronto ghetto.
Viets embarassedlaugh.gif
of course, this is only based on what i've seen. in reality, i'm sure that gang influence is equally blind to all colours and divisions.

why those black dudes picking on the vietnamese kids for? btw the song is pretty tight embarassedlaugh.gif
vIeTpRidEs_wOrLdWiDe
Nevermind !!
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