I keep hearing some Chinese historians (albeit biased ones) claim that the ancient Vietnamese (ie Yue tribes) came from the same stock as China's Xia Dynasty? Do Vietnamese acknowledge the same view? If so, all this historical hate was really just misunderstood feud between related people.

lmao cool

What is Xia dynasty?

Possibly, because the Chinese (Han) are Southeast Asian in origin despite the ramblings of some of their nationalists. The Xia peoples were most likely related to Yue or Miao tribes. They were obviously an advanced culture that absorbed many others around their proximity including nomads from invasions over the years, but the central origin of the Han are still Southeast. The Yellow River Valley is considered the birthplace of Chinese civilization but the early Chinese civilizations such as the Xia, Shang, or Zhou most likely had Southeast Asian origins.

If Hans were southeast origin it makes you feel proud of or what?

I am glad to hear that i am a southeast asian. cool

The ShiJi claims that Huns(XiongNu) and HuaXia(Han) people are both from the Xia dynasty therefore the Han-XiongNu , Song-Liao/Jin/Yuan wars was really just misunderstood feud between related people?
But then again all people are suppose to originate from Africa therefore all wars are just misunderstood feud between related people?

As for Chinese origin in legend its in the WEST not south or north or whatever, specifically Kunlun moutains in northern Tibet.

As for southeast asian origins of Chinese ,well if Chinese did pass through southeast asia before arriving in China the Chiense people certainly changed(evolved) significantly after arriving.
because since even before Xia dynasty waves of proto-mongoloids and others have been pushed OUT of China into Southeast asia by others and the Chinese themselves from the north.

I could post murals and terracota warriors to prove that ancient Chinese looked absolutely nothing like southeast asians.

I bet they even dont know who found the Xia dynasty and what is Han.

We were from somewhere near San Jiang Yuan located in the northeast Qinghai-Tibetan.

It's rather pathetic how some individuals often resort to racism and history to ascertain their political desires.

I give my support to MasterZen as his claim is most coherent with what I've read in archaeology.

Who and What?
anyway Kija is from Shang.

And Kija is a myth contradicted by archaeological evidence. $hit happens when you put too much trust in ancient scripts.

Hey if southeast asians are claiming origin of Chinese civilisation and Koreans are claiming Japanese emperors without ancient stories then Chinese claim is good as any.

It is quite pathetic that some internet nationalists are desperate for cultural and racial identity which forms their parasite mentality.

Exactly. It's usually Korean extremists who claim any direct connections to Japanese emperors. So "Chinese claims" are as good as theirs. As for the origin of the Chinese civilization, I wouldn't be too certain whether it came from SEA. Chinese bronze age culture, as I've read, is more likely to have originated from SEA than West Asia. However, unlike Korea where bronze age immigrants eradicated the native populations, such diffusion of bronze age culture to China wouldn't necessarily mean an origin of "civilization".



Parasite? Look who's talking.

to santa-Talktohand

Why so many people always picks on Hans or Japanese,and there seldom saw Hans or Japanese talking about others.

Look what your previous post,it was rather childish and you have too much spare time.

Your accusation is appropriate to the thread starter, not myself.

I would not only agree on Neo-Nazis' claim that Chinese civilization was found by Caucasian,but also would agree on this claim that Chinese civilization was created by SEA. Since i am not Japanese i have no right to consent on some "infallible evidence" on what is Japanese.

No need to take it serious when comes to confident people.

I was only speaking of its origins, not on what's "Chinese". I have no doubt that Shang bronze culture was Chinese.

^hey,dude. Have not you sensed that i was not talking to you.I would quote your post or call you name when i reply to you.

Sorry, but I didn't notice any such consistencies. And I thought you were being sarcastic. I'm sorry if I've misunderstood.

It can be hard.

Chinese have caucasian ancestry, why do you think China was so great, with all these little nations paying tribute to it?

Why Tang dynasty was so great? because they are Xianbei mixed, and we all know Xianbei are nordic."Yellow headed Xianbei entering louyang".

Caucasian cities and mummies are dugged up all over China and we all know out of all Asians Chinense are the most caucasian looking.

^From what i read from Chinese propaganda,those "Caucasian" alike people were prisoners of war.

Probrably blonde slaves when the Han army raided the northwest.

lol since when were CHINESE academics who claim that Southeast Asian culture came from Chinese culture, South East Asian themselves? Most South East Asians don't care, it's only CHINESE academics who claim that since they want to convince themselves that everything came from China.

dude,you were misled by internet resource.I have been living in China for more than 24 years and never heard of such claim.Quite on contrary,i saw lots of SEA ethnics here claims that they were from China and has the common with Chinese culture.

It seems generally its non-Chinese people who are claiming that the Chinese are claiming everything came from China.

Its kind of funny.

I don't make things up. If you want proof that it is Chinese who claim it then here you go. Right from the University of Hawaii.

http://www.hawaii.edu/cseas/pubs/vietnam/vietnam.html



Funny how some people claim how everything came from China and then later go about trying to accuse others of trying to claim Chinese culture, even though they were the ones who started the rumours in the first place.

Vietnamese don't make any claims, it has been Chinese who make these claims as evident in the article.

^Chinese never claim everything was from China only muchof Vietnamese culture there is a difference.

Chinese never claimed cham, burmese or malay culture was from China but only Vietnamese.
Why? till recently Vietnamese claim to be descentants of hundrend Yue people from southern China.
Ancient Vietnamese writing, governing system, archetecture, confucianism, art all had heavy Chinese influence and its fertile for the Vietnamese to refute.

Good then. simply according to this article, the thread starter's question has been answered and MasterZen's comments on the Han being of southeast asian (thus malay-indonesian origin) is debunked.

No, Xia and Han appeared in total different time period, they seperated by at least 3000-4000 years. Xia dynasty is not really a dynasty like Chin and Han, it was more like a big big tribe, or combination of couple big tribes, and they followed WangDi, one of the famous legendary leader in Chinese history. But most of his stories are just stories, and they don't have much historical proof. Xia people were living around the Yellow river valley, the center of China nowaday. By using today's standard, they are more likely to be considered as Northern Asian.
but the rest of your information are all matched with mine. Anyway, Xia culture should be the beginning of Chinese Civilization.