It's all in the papers and in the news.

Malaysian sex crimes is on the rise.

There is no denying fact that these crimes from the year 2000 to the year 2002 have gone up by an estimated 17% from 1,210 to 1,418.

Almost 50 - 60% of these cases involved minors.

What is happening in today's Malaysian sociaty?

Did we forget ourselves ? Is our social moral downgrading ?

Or did the media turn a blind eye in the past about sexual crimes?

Or did our grandparents,parents and government made a mistake by keeping sex a taboo subject?

And cause of these misinformation the younger generation have not enough knowledge to understand the meaning of sex?

Or is it due to our upbringing in Malaysian sociaty made malaysian youths this way?

Can you give your views why is this really happening to us?

Did something go wrong somewhere?

Or did we ignore all of this saying " That it will never happen to me? " and so it is not within our concern to care about the victims of sexual assault.

Please post in your views I want to know what the Malaysian members of this forum have to say.

You haven't seen the worst of Malaysia's sex crime yet. Have you heard about a nine-year-old boy who was brought by his father to have his first sex experience with a PROSTITUTE?? And another 6-year-old boy who allegedly sexually abused a 5-year-old girl in his kindy and said that he thought it was just "a game"? And a 13-year-old boy who sodomised a young boy and molested a young girl in front of another young girl? What's happening to Malaysia?? We often switch on the TV at 8.00 p.m sharp and tune in to Berita Perdana or whatever news channel. Then comes in this news about so-and-so molesting/raping/sodomising/attempting to outrage so-and-so's modesty and we sit down there, mouths and eyes opened wide and shaking our heads in disbelief. All kinds of sex crimes are sprouting up almost everyday. Perhaps it was our country's lack of sex education and promoting awareness among youths. It could be also because of Malaysia's fast-paced development which unconsciously makes a lot of parents put career above family, therefore paying less time with their children. The effect? Children feel bored, unloved and useless and try to find their identities instead among friends - and often end up with bad company. A lot of children are thinking that hanging out at cyber cafes, shopping malls and so on makes them look and feel cool - which is actually the very opposite. So however the situation is, the first place to look is at their family backgrounds. Usually these things are caused by loose supervision. Sex crimes could also be caused by the hesitation of sex assault victims to report the matter to the police, thinking that their reputation could be ruined. Or it could be like what Bringer_of_Death said:

The government is trying to do something, and I respect that, but Malaysia's sex crimes seem to be rising and rising - until we might end up thinking this could go on forever.

I agree with you. Good family will lay the ground for a good neighbourhood, community, society and country. I don't just mean the typical father, mother and two kid scenario; a stable family can even be a single parent or grandparents looking after the grandchildren. If there is love and communication between family members, how can cases of incest etc happen?

Yes, I agree with you too. Unfortunately, a lot of family members abuse their position in the family to sexually abuse other family members. Corrupted love, if you can call it that.

Hmmm.. difficult one junior. Practically speaking, I will start with what I can to improve Malaysian society in general. eg NEVER EVER pay bribes to police, politely ask the kakitangan kerajaan at the counter why is it taking so long to do whatever-what-not when it is obvious that she is just idling her time, tell people off for not queueing, etc. Hehehe idealistic? Maybe but that's what I've been doing. Not just in city suburbs but also in the kampungs. Most people do respond when they see that you are genuinely seeking to have what's best for everyone, in a bersopan-santun way. Their looks would make milk curdle but I just keep on smiling. Enough of this tak apa attitude already.

like Abdulah Badawi said Malaysians have 1st world facilities but 3rd world thinking and atitude.

.


Damn we are really forgetting ourselves as people of one nation.

Sad...

Did you read about what happened to the maid who abused by her employers today? Just so barbaric! This is really one of the worst cases of abuse I've ever come across. I really feel so embarrassed to be Malaysian at times like this. You know the saying, "kerana nila setitik, rosak susu sebelanga." What makes people vent out their frustrations in such a cruel manner?

Hmm...let me guess...the maid's name was Nirmala Bonat, wasn't it? That depends if you read the same news I did. Oh, just look at the scars! I don't know what's happening to Malaysian employers these days. Merosakkan imej Malaysia sahaja. Man! For goodness sake, I don't even know what was in the employer's mind. She must have been a bit... ...okay, not that I want to insult her (the employer) but...just imagine. However, we cannot just blame one side only. Maybe it was something to do witht the maid herself. But in this case, I cannot help thinking that the employer is to be blamed. And yeah, "kerana nila setitik, rosak susu sebelanga". Employers have been adviced many times to be patient with their employees, but it's just like "mencurahkan air ke daun keladi". I hope no such tragedy ever happen again. ...Well, at least we can still hope, can't we?

Tolerence for another person is what we must exercise. As a nation that is made up of several races we must able to tolerate one another. It's no good to spend your anger beating the person up for no good reason that means that one's anger isn't justified unless of course it's a life threatening situation that cannot be avoided.

Hope will not happen if we do nothing. We must pass the message to everyone that these things will not be tolerated.

DOWN WITH ABUSIVE EMPLOYERS!!

We should crucify the employer!!

Burn her down to ashes!!



:P


Hehe medival thinking..

or better yet impose a heavy sentence on her.

Strong word brigerofdeath!! (Wah, your nick cannot be shorter ah? So much to type one hehe). I 100% agree that the greatest strength that Malaysia has is its tolerant multi-racial people. This is the basic denominator which is absolutely crucial for Malaysia's development. And I am very optimistic about our and the region's future.

hehe well you can call me B.O.D like the others.

Anyway I agree on your decision in multi racial tolerence but tolerence would not get you far enough.

You need to respect others and earn their respect from them.

And our younger generation needs to be competitive to meet global demands.

Look at our current education system now and you can see why..

To many Malaysian students are spoon fed.

There aren't many who would be able to think out of the box or be creative when

it is required. They do give up easily too when a difficult task is passed out to

them. And they never did try to make an effort. I don't know about students in

your area but in mine I can see there are lots of them who pushed an obsticle

away if they see it is hard to climb.

Hi BOD . I hear you my friend. The 'tak apa' attitude has gotta stop and if we don't make this change ourselves, than the chnage will be forced upon us. I'm a medical student abroad, and in this field, we have to compete on an even heel with everyone else, and indeed, this is what we do.

So I'm not an educationist myself, but I felt quite strongly for the Vision School implementation as I benefitted from the multi-racial mission school system in my education. I didn't realise that for some, the vernacular schools was really something too precious to be experimented with. I suppose this is the same as how some bumis see any fine-tuning to the bumiputera policy as an abomination.

yes we must see that policy as irrevalent for our competitiveness to the world.

It's time for bumiputera's to wake up and explore the world.

I hear you BOD. I am a bumiputera Malay myself. There is actually quite a lot of us in our early 20s who know that the bumiputera policy has gone lop-sided and that it is proving detrimental to our country's future. Certainly, our fight will be different from yours. Ours is having to make this idea palatable to other bumiputeras without sounding like we're selling out. I have always believed that if we don't change, then change will be forced upon us. Here's to a prosperous, tolerant and peaceful Malaysia.

Yup!

Although I have to admit that I am not a bumiputera but a Chinese.

I don't hold any grudges for you all bumiputeras but I see that all of you would perform better if this privelage is removed cause it is the acceptance of reality and the acceptance that your race can do things independently without anyone's help.

Although the government is there to protect you now what happens when the government is gone? Or what happens if our country hits bad times?
It would do us no good if most of us are dependant to the government cause the government is the people. A nation cannot grow without it's people.
A prosperous nation is due to the nations I.Q and creativity,an independant nation and a nation that is co-operative with its community.
Not only that our ideology has to change we have to accept that everything around us is difficult and not easily attained. Only then shall we able to survive as a nation.

And even though independance is good but too much of it bad.
Independance can play its role in creative thinking but when it comes to building a nation co-operative dependance plays a role. We have to accept and exchange our views with others so we can come up with better solutions in making our country grow.

That's why Abdullah Badawi is asking for suggestions from his cabinet of ministers.
And he is asking them to tell him the truth and not to make the truth sweet to hear.
Telling someone something good without telling about the bad things doesn't solve a problem. In reality it is just running away from the problem.
We all know that the truth hurts and avoiding it would just push the problem away.
The problem is hanging there creating its havoc. And even though if it is a small problem it will soon collect and grow into bigger problems.
Same as the expressions of " Sikit -sikit lama-lama menjadi bukit "
Avoiding small problems would in turn create bigger problems to solve.
So it's best to solve the small problems first before it grows big.
As the saying goes " prevention is better than cure ".

So I am advising to all Malaysian to " Get up! Expand! Explore and create! " and only then we shall grow into a prosperous country.

You know, I have many 1st degree relatives who are Malay Singaporeans. They all do quite well down south, without any help from the government. I know for a fact that many Malay Singaporeans are better to compete than Malay Malaysians because they have no choice but to work hard. There is no safety net provided for the govt. I'm not saying that the meritocracy ala Singapore is the way to go for Malaysia (put it this way, discrimination occurs in many forms), but I know that the Msian govt is aware of ]the need to fine-tune the system.

Don't give up BOD, there are still many bumis who are standing on our own two feet. The question is, are is there enough of us to make a significant change? I have always seen myself as a Malaysian, and also a traditional Malay. These two are not incompatible. Whatever happens, we will continue to fight the good fight and improve Malaysia in whatever ways we can. Malaysia is doing quite well thank you. But what hurts us the most, and I'm sure you agree with me, is that we can be so much better!!

Any input from other Malaysians are welcome.

With a country with many races and a big area, Malaysia has every potential to do as well or better than Singapore. If a small country like Singapore can achieve such a high success, why can't we? I guess we Bumis tend to be quite laid-back. Bumis cover such a wide population in Malaysia. The non-bumis are already doing very well in their jobs. If the bumis become more hard-working, wa lau eh! Malaysia is one economic boom!

There has been a bit (a bit, okay) gap between the bumis and non-bumis. The gap is caused by the grudge held by each other. My great-grandpa (a Chinese) came from a well-to-do family, and fell in love with my great-grandma (a Bidayuh) who came from a poorer family. Because of their different races, my great-grandpa's parents treated my great-grandma badly. At last, pregnant with her first child (my grandpa) she ran away and married a Bidayuh man. My great-grandpa was upset and looked all over for her. But at last he got married with a Chinese woman, whom my great-great-grandparents must have widely approved.

Just because we are not as good/better than another race, we should work together to help each other. We would not want something like the situation above to happen in our society. Perhaps it was our (Bumi) fault for being too dependant on the government, who obviously wants to get us on our feet. The Bumis have very interesting cultures and heritages, and these are good fields to explore. They can do a lot to help Malaysia's tourism. Well, as I have observed, at least there has been some improvement within the Bumis, though of course, we need to work harder. With this, at least, we would no longer be considered as 'lazy bums'.

We all want to work together unfortunately, the government and the Malay. With the special privilege law that given to the Malay, how can we work together? If you are a business very well and earn a lot of cash out of it, the government will approach you and call you to give some share of ur business to the Malay. Just look at it, how do you feel?

And example will be like genting highland, it should owned 100% by Chinese, how did the government get so much share? Easy, the government approach you and say “Hey, you got a nice business there, you give me 40% of the share or I will terminate your license” Yes, this is what we call Malaysia. How about Australia? Us? Or other country? No! There are no such law, you success, than you win.

If the government continue to act that way, I afraid more and more businessman will migrate their business to other country. You can’t earn any money here if they keep treat you that way.

Gosh, did the government really say this? Or maybe the Genting Highlands manager made a deal with the government...we don't really know.

Corruption is a problem endemic to many Asian nations. Malaysia's racial mix just complicates matters. Malaysia will succeed, no doubt in my mind, but by what degree - that is the question.

Hmm there are talks about this but I don't think they say it outright.

You already have got it all wrong.

I think the 40% is the tax from the bussiness income.

Not 40% of your money is given to the Malays.

But still there are rumours that the government in Malaysia is using the tax money to help the Malays.

And as other races see it, it sounds like we are feeding them.


@ malaccan:

Yes we can definitely do better if we put our minds into it.

Hear hear BOD! Eh, you sure you can make toast so much ah? My drink is non-alcoholic so I'm ok. Alright. enuff talking, let's get down to work!

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. Love doesn't come into the picture I think. A lot of research has gone into the causative factors of sexual crimes, mostly done in the West unfortunately, so whether or not the same data can be applied to an Eastern society is open for debate.

But, in general, sex crimes are not all one and the same. The idea that it is to do with uncontrollable urges and lust is probably not all true. For example, we know now that the majority of rapes are more to do with an expression of domination or power over the individual, and less to do with sexual 'apetite' if you will.

Unfortunately, Joe uninformed will still be arguing and generalising about the role of women in instigating rape by dressing up in tight jeans etc.

Hahaha...

really now

I don't see myself thinking dirty when I see some women wearing tight jeans and such.

Saying such things about women wearing sexy clothes is discriminating women.


Tell me what is a women when she can't show her beauty?
Besides her intelligence and wisdom.



You can't blame women for wearing what she chooses unless she is trying to seduce a man by making advances on her fetish clothes but that hardly happens :P and if it does it is normally indoors.


It all depends on the individuals control and how he sees a women.
And yes it may be the domination characteristics of men over women.

And I disagree with you not agreeing about 'sexual appetite'.

Sexual appetite is desire.

Let's face it sex is a form of luxury.

It's human desire.

And hardly avoidable.

But can be controlled.

Some data for you, taken from a monograph on sexual crimes in a Criminal Psychology text written by David Armsworth 2001:

Rising sex crimes indeed!

Malaysia is a muslem country...

Watch out girls, malaccan her out to get you!!
.... what the?! Hey!!! What you laughing at?!

If only it were that simple khuanam.

this mostly happended in west malaysia. crime rate is still low in east malaysia.

True huaren, but East Malaysia is nowhere near as populated as the West Malaysia is.

yeah, so thats why i always prefer east malaysia more than west malaysia. moreover, if you drive in KL at working hour, you cant even move...

Hahaha, now THAT is something I'm just so already used to. I'm sick when ppl from KK and Kuching keep boasting just how much better their cities are over KL. yeah yeah yeah...

But the advantage of west Malaysia is that it is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more modern than east Malaysia. compare to KL, KL is way more developed than Kuching., Road system everything is better in KL. The only thing is the traffic and the crime rate is much more higher in west my.

It's just time before East Malaysia catches up and investments head there more. And make sure that Kuchine learns from the KL's mistakes. My mom says that Kuching has an old world charm which is very much like Malacca's. Hmmm, wonder if I would still need passport to fly there. Oh BTW, I read in the Star that the ferry service between East and West Malaysia across the South China Sea are being re-commended. Dang, wouldn't that trip take forever?!

I go back to kuching every 2 to 3 times a year. And every time I visit, the development is very slow. The government only builds up west Malaysia, they just ignore east Malaysia. There are no even a single high way in kuching...

I honestly don't know what to say to that man. Both the federal and state govts have got to do something about it then. I haven't been to East Malaysia yet (shame on me) but I know that it's not as developed as the west coast of West Malaysia. What kind of highway are you talking abt? The same slow development is also occurring in Kelantan. But that is another can of worms altogether. Many but not all people there do not want a very fast pace of life. I take it that Kuching is different. One of the Msian 'uncle' here is from Kuching and he just loves going back home several times a year.

The government only want east Malaysia resource. And the government really doesn’t care about east Malaysia.


Its true east Malaysia is really sucks. Kuching for example, the road system is a mess. Almost 60% of the road doesn’t have light.


Big highway that link from city to city. Like driving from KL to Kelantan…


I never been to Kelantan, not sure about that.

Ah, I see now. You're really quite unhappy with the govt. How do you think you can make a difference? There are many Malaysians who are also unhappy with the govt for different reasons.

Malaysia will be a perfect place if they abolish that stupid unfair practice where Malay get all the advantages.

You cant go to UNI if you are a non Malay.
You cant find government job if you are a non Malay.
You have problem when applying for business license (You need to pay extra because you are a non Malay)
You cant apply business loan from the government if you are a non Malay.
Blah Blah.

How can Malaysia improve if they continue such law?

I understand you bro, I really do. I am a Malay with bumi rights who is now in UK under a govt loan. I'm sure you have met others in Australia. I sure did. Anyway, I completely agree with you that Malaysia will be a perfect place when the Malay advantage is abolished. But this is not going to happen tomorrow.

First things first. Malaysia 100% needed the bumiputera policy when it was first implemented as the NEP in the 1970s. The whole country suffered from the May 69 incident. The Malay despite being the majority in the country, had only very small equity in the country. This created resentment among many Malays. All the leaders from all the races agreed that a social agreement had to be made whereby positive discrimination for us Malays needs to be put in place. The Malays lived off the earth during the time of the British, we were fisherman and farmers. The economy was always held by the Chinese merchantile since the day the British came and changed our social landscape forever.

Today, many Malays, but more importantly, not all, have become complacent with this rights. Just like how a muscle becomes wasted if you don't use it, so too did our competetive edge worsened. Only know is the govt trying to tackle this problem. It will be difficult cos the Malays are too used to this priviledge, but it can be done. This is what Dr Mahathir alluded to before he retired.

I am surprised that you haven't met any Malay that you can openly discuss this matter with. Maybe it's beause there isn't as many Malay in East Malaysia. Being from KL, many of my friends, Malay, Chinese and Indian are aware of the problems concerning the bumi policy but we do our best to fight it. When there is no assistance from the govt, the Malays will have to fight on their own two feet. I sometimes get credibility issues when Chinese Malaysians who normally go to chinese school and have not met many Malays think that I am a typical lazy Malay. But I prove them wrong when I beat them in exams. Me as a Malay will argue with other Malays when they think that Malaysia is only for them. Likewise, my Chinese and Indian friends will argue in their own ways with their colleagues who think that all Malays are living of the govt cos they know that given the chance, we can equally excel at anything. Paradoxically, instead of helping the Malays, the NEP has become a hindrance to our progress.

You know, there really is a truly Malaysian middle class who don't see ourselves as Malay, Chinese, or Indians. We are fighting to make this country fair for everyone. I am sorry if things are too difficult for you right now. Quite a few ppl I know have migrated but they have not changed their citizenship because I am sure you could appreciate that Malaysia as a concept and in reality even now is a good place to live. A few of my schoolmates have gone to Singapore and work there. At least you can live in a society like Malaysia but you'll be in the majority. But don't think everything is rosy in Singapore huaren. While Malaysia practises open positive discrimination, Singapore does is very very subtly and this hurts even more. The reason why I know is because 40% of my family are Malay Singaporeans. But they will continue to live there cos Singapura is their tanah tempat tumpah darah, just like Malaysia is both yours and mine.

I might sound like I am pro-govt but I am not. I am just pro-Malaysia. I have been to many countries during my hols (I work part-time during term and hols, and the British pound is very strong so I can afford to go to many places.) and Malaysia is still the best country for me. We have the best of Asia in Malaysia, and have managed to live alongside each other peacefully and form a Malaysian society. This is something that we should be able to be proud of.

It's not true that you can't go to uni, open business, can't get govt job if you are Malay. It will be more difficult, yes but definitely possible. In the future things will get easier. Even now, the quota for univeristy intake is being changed. Here in the UK, 30% of the JPA loans are for non-bumis. The 2 Ministry of Defence scholarships at my uni were given to Chinese. The Chinese in Malaysia did not have any pressure to change their names or identities like in the Philippines, Indonesia or Thailand. There are many many Chinese Malaysians who are proud to be Malaysians and understand the sitation we are in. I hope you believe me when I say there are many people who do see ourselves as Malaysians, whom among the Malays I am included. My battle is to change the mindset of my people. What about you? You can choose to migrate elsewhere or stay on and fight the good fight. Malays have nowhere else to go, this is the land of our forefathers. I can easily migrate to the UK/Australia/US with my qualifications but I choose not to because Malaysia is a special country that needs to be improved. Malaysia will progress even with the bumi policy, please do not underestimate the Malays. But there is the crux of the matter. Malaysia is not just for the Malays but for all Malaysians. It's a catch-22 situation, I as a Malay am fighting for the rights of all malaysians. And the current govt too is changing things, but it will take a while to change the mindset of many who are so used to the bumi rights. At the end of the day it is your choice, you can stay or go elsewhere. If you do, then it will be a shame cos it means that Malaysia would have failed some of its citizens. I will stay on come hell or highwater. You know that the bumiputera policy is not Islamic at all. It is a political and social tool of social engineering. South Africa is implementing positive discrimination because the blacks there have very little wealth after being under apartheid for so long.

I will get flamed for writing this for sure, but I believe in a Malaysia of truly equal opportunity. But to say that life in Malaysia for a non-bumi is hell is absolutely untrue and is an affront to the soft-spoken accepting nature of the Malays. I am very comfortable with what I have said because I have seen what it is like to be a Malay in Singapore, what it's like for a non-bumi with more qualification that a bumi to be rejected from his first choice of subject all in the name of positive discrimination, what it's like when the Malay, Chinese and Indians get together and make fun of each other. In conclusion, the fight now is two-pronged, between the bumis who absolutely believe that Malaysia is just for them and the non-bumis who are absolutely uncomprimising in accepting that the Malays do have special rights in the country. As usual, it is always the moderates who are not heard and yet this is the majority in the country. Even if you listen to the very few Malaysians in this AF board, we are all proud to be Malaysian, Malay, Chinese, Indian, whatever. My fight is with my own people, the question is do you want to fight as well? I am aware of the shortcomings of Malaysia but after seeing so many other countries, what we have is truly unique and worth fighting for.

I need to stop now. I'll wait for your reply.

[quote]I understand you bro, I really do. [/quote]
Thank you for your understanding.

[quote]Today, many Malays, but more importantly, not all, have become complacent with this rights. Just like how a muscle becomes wasted if you don't use it, so too did our competetive edge worsened. Only know is the govt trying to tackle this problem. It will be difficult cos the Malays are too used to this priviledge, but it can be done. This is what Dr Mahathir alluded to before he retired. [/quote]
Well said. I agree completely.

[quote]I am surprised that you haven't met any Malay that you can openly discuss this matter with. Maybe it's beause there isn't as many Malay in East Malaysia. [/quote]
No, I have no chance to disucss this issure with any malay friend. I have a few, but all of them have opposing view and wish that this privilege continue.

[quote]You know, there really is a truly Malaysian middle class who don't see ourselves as Malay, Chinese, or Indians. We are fighting to make this country fair for everyone. I am sorry if things are too difficult for you right now. [/quote]
Yes, things are getting worst now. I can tell you if the government suddenly wanted to abolish the privilege, a lot of Malay will against it.

[quote]Quite a few ppl I know have migrated but they have not changed their citizenship because I am sure you could appreciate that Malaysia as a concept and in reality even now is a good place to live. [/quote]
I will not change my citizenship as well, because Malaysia is still a nice place to leave. But things are getting worst recently, like the new rule that implemted by the government recently that all student from Chinese school must get a credit in Malay so theyc an enter UNI. This will decrease student from going to Chinese school, and may forced the school to shut down.

And there are also a few new rule that show that the government is trying to take over Chinese company. An example will be like merging existing Chinese bank with the government bank. And open more Islam bank. With such policy, more and more Chinese bank will gone and the finance will conquer by the government. At that time, non malay doing business will be hard since everything have to go through these bank.

[quote]A few of my schoolmates have gone to Singapore and work there. At least you can live in a society like Malaysia but you'll be in the majority. But don't think everything is rosy in Singapore huaren. While Malaysia practises open positive discrimination, Singapore does is very very subtly and this hurts even more. The reason why I know is because 40% of my family are Malay Singaporeans. But they will continue to live there cos Singapura is their tanah tempat tumpah darah, just like Malaysia is both yours and mine. [/quote]
I’m really not sure about this. But can you tell me more about it?


[quote]It's not true that you can't go to uni, open business, can't get govt job if you are Malay. It will be more difficult, yes but definitely possible. In the future things will get easier. Even now, the quota for univeristy intake is being changed. Here in the UK, 30% of the JPA loans are for non-bumis. The 2 Ministry of Defence scholarships at my uni were given to Chinese. The Chinese in Malaysia did not have any pressure to change their names or identities like in the Philippines, Indonesia or Thailand. There are many many Chinese Malaysians who are proud to be Malaysians and understand the sitation we are in. [/quote]
Actually, there are no positive, all of them are negative changes. A few example will be about the Chinese school the government is not closing the school directly since a lot of people will against it. But they are slowly changing the policy like people from Chinese school cannot go to UNI blah blah…

In longer term, this will force more and more Chinese school to be shut down…

BTW, Chinese in Philipines and Thailand have the freedom like they have in Malaysia.

[quote]I hope you believe me when I say there are many people who do see ourselves as Malaysians, whom among the Malays I am included. My battle is to change the mindset of my people. [/quote]
That’s good, I am really happy to hear that there are even Malay who against this law. All of the Malay that I met wishes this privilege to stay.

[quote]What about you? You can choose to migrate elsewhere or stay on and fight the good fight. Malays have nowhere else to go, this is the land of our forefathers. [/quote]
Me? I don’t plan to migrate else where because I still hold a Malaysia citizenship. And I visit Malaysia 2 to 4 times a year. Each time I stay about 2 weeks to 2 months even. The reason why I am at AUS is that all my family members are there, and I am left alone.

[quote]Malaysia will progress even with the bumi policy, please do not underestimate the Malays. [/quote]
No it will not, because it will make the Malay even more lazy. Now they have the thinking like, I don’t need to be hard working because the government will help.

[quote]This is quite offensive, but I hope you wont get offensce.[/quote]
The reason why Malaysia can developed into a modern country is because of non Malay.

Not being ignorant here, but im stating the truth...

The Chinese do business here and pay tax to the government. The tax that they pay doesn’t bring any benefict at all to the Chinese instead, it bring benefict to the Malay. Because the government use the tax that they pay and use it to develop the country and also use it to help the Malay.

I’m sure you aware that almost 90% of the shop that you walk around the city are owned by Chinese…

And off course, there are also company that owned by Malay…

I’m not trying to show like Chinese is so great, but I am stating the truth…

Why there are Malay who cannot stand up for themselves is that they get used to the privilege that offered by the government…

[quote]But there is the crux of the matter. Malaysia is not just for the Malays but for all Malaysians. It's a catch-22 situation, I as a Malay am fighting for the rights of all malaysians. [/quote]
I’m really happy to hear that, you are a very understanding and a very hardworking person. I respect you.

[quote]And the current govt too is changing things, but it will take a while to change the mindset of many who are so used to the bumi rights. [/quote]
Honestly, no offense but I don’t see any positive change. They are making lot more worst changes.

[quote]At the end of the day it is your choice, you can stay or go elsewhere. If you do, then it will be a shame cos it means that Malaysia would have failed some of its citizens. I will stay on come hell or highwater. [/quote]
Actually, I do hope I can stay loyal to Malaysia, but look at the policy its like I am treated as a second class citizen. How can I be loyal? The government always say that Chinese are not loyal to Malaysia, but how can they be loyal if they are treated like a second class citizen?

[quote]I will get flamed for writing this for sure, [/quote]
No you will not.

[quote]I am very comfortable with what I have said because I have seen what it is like to be a Malay in Singapore,  [/quote]
What is like to be a Malay in Singapore? Please explain more.
I do know that Malay is also treated fairly in Singapore. The Chinese in Singapore have no special privilege like in M’sia. They have to stand up for themselves.



Thank you for your time…

QUOTE
You know, there really is a truly Malaysian middle class who don't see ourselves as Malay, Chinese, or Indians. We are fighting to make this country fair for everyone. I am sorry if things are too difficult for you right now.

Yes, things are getting worst now. I can tell you if the government suddenly wanted to abolish the privilege, a lot of Malay will against it.


REPLY:
That is why I believe that the govt has got to do it gradually which they are doing. So things are getting better. I know that even among my friends and relatives, some will find it difficult to see that this is for our mutual good. Agree, it has to be done slowly and in a transparent manner so that we can build the community's. It is very important to have a Malay's trust. Once you lose it, things will go downhill from there.



QUOTE
Quite a few ppl I know have migrated but they have not changed their citizenship because I am sure you could appreciate that Malaysia as a concept and in reality even now is a good place to live.

I will not change my citizenship as well, because Malaysia is still a nice place to leave. But things are getting worst recently, like the new rule that implemted by the government recently that all student from Chinese school must get a credit in Malay so theyc an enter UNI. This will decrease student from going to Chinese school, and may forced the school to shut down.

And there are also a few new rule that show that the government is trying to take over Chinese company. An example will be like merging existing Chinese bank with the government bank. And open more Islam bank. With such policy, more and more Chinese bank will gone and the finance will conquer by the government. At that time, non malay doing business will be hard since everything have to go through these bank.


REPLY
The Chinese school is one thing that I think must be sorted huaren. I believe that all Malaysians should be able to speak some Malay. It is what gives us a mutual language of communication and understanding. When you learn a language, you also learn the values behind it and the society that practises it. This is essential for any country.

I was very disappointed when the Chinese medium school opposed the Vision school. To have Chinese schoolchildren go to Chinese school is a disastrous to having Malay children go to pondok/sekolah agama schools because they won't have much chance to interact with each other. Childhood is the formative years and this is where we learn to appreciate each other's races. I think the issue here is trust. Do the Chinese trust the govt to run the govt school that will bring together the national Malay medium together with Tamil and Mandarin-speaking Chinese school? I went to a Roman Catolic school and that was the best times of my lifes growing up with all races.

The biggest user of Bank Islam today are the Chinese, did you know that? The rates that they give are fairer than most, because Islamic banking is not profit-oriented but more to provide a social service!


QUOTE
A few of my schoolmates have gone to Singapore and work there. At least you can live in a society like Malaysia but you'll be in the majority. But don't think everything is rosy in Singapore huaren. While Malaysia practises open positive discrimination, Singapore does is very very subtly and this hurts even more. The reason why I know is because 40% of my family are Malay Singaporeans. But they will continue to live there cos Singapura is their tanah tempat tumpah darah, just like Malaysia is both yours and mine.

I’m really not sure about this. But can you tell me more about it?


REPLY
All I have are anecdotes which makes for poor discussion. I won't be able to substantiate with anything solid on the internet. Malaysia-Singapore is too sensitive and is something that I will self-censor. Speak to the Malays in Singapore. Everything is indeed meritocratic in Singapore, but with the govt being so strong and Chinese, some Malay sensibilities will be overlooked.


QUOTE
It's not true that you can't go to uni, open business, can't get govt job if you are Malay. It will be more difficult, yes but definitely possible. In the future things will get easier. Even now, the quota for univeristy intake is being changed. Here in the UK, 30% of the JPA loans are for non-bumis. The 2 Ministry of Defence scholarships at my uni were given to Chinese. The Chinese in Malaysia did not have any pressure to change their names or identities like in the Philippines, Indonesia or Thailand. There are many many Chinese Malaysians who are proud to be Malaysians and understand the sitation we are in.

Actually, there are no positive, all of them are negative changes. A few example will be about the Chinese school the government is not closing the school directly since a lot of people will against it. But they are slowly changing the policy like people from Chinese school cannot go to UNI blah blah…

In longer term, this will force more and more Chinese school to be shut down…

BTW, Chinese in Philipines and Thailand have the freedom like they have in Malaysia.

REPLY
You have to speak to the success stories that has happened and then decide. If you surround yourself only with negative things then you won't be able to see what's good there is in the system. As I said earlier, I think Chinese schools operating on its own is as bad as the religious pondok schools where there are no mixing between races.
I know that Chinese in Philippines and Thailand have equal freedom but my point is that the Chinese's rights in Malaysia has always been looked after. There are no Chinese medium school in Thailand or Philippines but they are in Malaysia. The Chinese in Malaysia never had to change their names to make it sound more Malay. Malaysia was the first ASEAN country to build ties with China in the 1970s.


QUOTE
What about you? You can choose to migrate elsewhere or stay on and fight the good fight. Malays have nowhere else to go, this is the land of our forefathers.

Me? I don’t plan to migrate else where because I still hold a Malaysia citizenship. And I visit Malaysia 2 to 4 times a year. Each time I stay about 2 weeks to 2 months even. The reason why I am at AUS is that all my family members are there, and I am left alone.

That's for now huaren, but in the future? For many Malays, migrating is never in the question not because life is good back home, because it is the very land of our forefathers. You know the saying, hujan emas di negeri orang, hujan batu di negeri sendiri. One truth, for the Malays, money is not everything. This is a fundamental difference between the Malay and the Chinese.


QUOTE
Malaysia will progress even with the bumi policy, please do not underestimate the Malays.

No it will not, because it will make the Malay even more lazy. Now they have the thinking like, I don’t need to be hard working because the government will help.

REPLY
Yes it will. The question is by how much. If push comes to shove, a society or civiliation will have to adapt to be able to survive. Say the NEP were to continue, we will see ourselves losing others who in the past was behind us. The Malays in Malaysia have a charmed life in that things have been peaceful for hundreds of years, apart from skirishes with some neighbours. The problem with the NEP today is that is shrouds us from the past that the Malay have. We are also a proud people made unwitingly weak by this well-intentioned tool.



QUOTE
This is quite offensive, but I hope you wont get offensce.

The reason why Malaysia can developed into a modern country is because of non Malay.

Not being ignorant here, but im stating the truth...

The Chinese do business here and pay tax to the government. The tax that they pay doesn’t bring any benefict at all to the Chinese instead, it bring benefict to the Malay. Because the government use the tax that they pay and use it to develop the country and also use it to help the Malay.

I’m sure you aware that almost 90% of the shop that you walk around the city are owned by Chinese…

And off course, there are also company that owned by Malay…

I’m not trying to show like Chinese is so great, but I am stating the truth…

Why there are Malay who cannot stand up for themselves is that they get used to the privilege that offered by the government…


REPLY
I agree that the chinese has been the engine of growth for the country. But the wealth also came from the toils of other races too, doesn't it? The Malay pay taxes too don't they? I appreciate this because it is this tax that is paying for my tuition fees. The Chinese are the best in running the business. But if the best isn't around, the 2nd best wil naturally fill in this niche. That is why you musn't look down on the Malays. I do not have the assumption that the Malay are lazy huaren.
And the current govt too is changing things, but it will take a while to change the mindset of many who are so used to the bumi rights.



QUOTE
Honestly, no offense but I don’t see any positive change. They are making lot more worst changes.

REPLY
On the contrary, I see the govt has realised mistakes done in the 80s and 90s. If it doesn't change, then change will be forced on it. It's as simple as that.




QUOTE
At the end of the day it is your choice, you can stay or go elsewhere. If you do, then it will be a shame cos it means that Malaysia would have failed some of its citizens. I will stay on come hell or highwater.

Actually, I do hope I can stay loyal to Malaysia, but look at the policy its like I am treated as a second class citizen. How can I be loyal? The government always say that Chinese are not loyal to Malaysia, but how can they be loyal if they are treated like a second class citizen?

REPLY
I do hope you'll stay on. If you

QUOTE
I will get flamed for writing this for sure,

No you will not.

REPLY
Not by you, but by someone else. It doesn't matter



QUOTE
I am very comfortable with what I have said because I have seen what it is like to be a Malay in Singapore,

What is like to be a Malay in Singapore? Please explain more.
I do know that Malay is also treated fairly in Singapore. The Chinese in Singapore have no special privilege like in M’sia. They have to stand up for themselves.

REPLY
It's better if there is a Malay Singaporean on this board who can give his/her opinion, and then we can compare that to my family's experiences. It's too easy for a Malaysian to misunderstand a Singaporean's sayings and vice versa. Having multi-racial societies to Malaysia's and Singapore's degree is quite hard.


I hope we're not giving the impression we're obsessed about Malaysia's Sex Crimes. It'd be great if we can continue talking abt this huaren, and get feedback from others. But I don't think I can afford the time at this moment. Suffice now to say that we all love Malaysia and will do our best to improve it. I am quite idealistic about this, and am not pessimistic at all about Malaysia. There are things you write that I strongly disagree and there are things I write that you too disagree. Shall we leave it here for now? And maybe we can open a new thread for others to give their opinions as well. It'd be great to hear the opinions of other Malaysians.

[quote]The Chinese school is one thing that I think must be sorted huaren. I believe that all Malaysians should be able to speak some Malay. It is what gives us a mutual language of communication and understanding. When you learn a language, you also learn the values behind it and the society that practises it. This is essential for any country.[/quote]
In Chiense school, they also teach Malay. I myself is from a Chinese primary school, and when I go to middle school, I can speak Malay very well. There is no need to create such rule that will force Chinese school to close down one day.

[quote]I was very disappointed when the Chinese medium school opposed the Vision school. To have Chinese schoolchildren go to Chinese school is a disastrous to having Malay children go to pondok/sekolah agama schools because they won't have much chance to interact with each other. [/quote]
The reason why is because if that happen, less and less Chinese will go to Chinese school. This will create a new generation of Chinese who doesn’t know how to speak or read Chinese.

[quote]Childhood is the formative years and this is where we learn to appreciate each other's races. I think the issue here is trust. Do the Chinese trust the govt to run the govt school that will bring together the national Malay medium together with Tamil and Mandarin-speaking Chinese school? I went to a Roman Catolic school and that was the best times of my lifes growing up with all races. [/quote]
In middle school, Malay, Indian and Chinese already mixed together…

[quote]The biggest user of Bank Islam today are the Chinese, did you know that? The rates that they give are fairer than most, because Islamic banking is not profit-oriented but more to provide a social service![/quote]
I’m not sure about this, so I cannot argue further about the user.

[quote]You have to speak to the success stories that has happened and then decide. If you surround yourself only with negative things then you won't be able to see what's good there is in the system. [/quote]
Regarding the business, it doesn’t mean that non malay cant do business anymore such policy. The only thing is, it is hard for non Malay to start because the government only provide loan to the Malay.

[quote]As I said earlier, I think Chinese schools operating on its own is as bad as the religious pondok schools where there are no mixing between races.[/quote]
Yes mixing with races is a good thing. But you have to take into consideration another factor.

[quote]I know that Chinese in Philippines and Thailand have equal freedom but my point is that the Chinese's rights in Malaysia has always been looked after. There are no Chinese medium school in Thailand or Philippines but they are in Malaysia. [/quote]
I'm not sure about this also, we need some thaiman or philipino to tell us about Chinese in that both country.

[quote]The Chinese in Malaysia never had to change their names to make it sound more Malay. [/quote]
Chinese in Thailand and Philipine also never have to change their names. Only Indonesia.

[quote]This is a fundamental difference between the Malay and the Chinese.[/quote]
What do you mean? Do you mean that Chinese are crazy about money like hell? Where you get that idea from?

[quote]The Malay pay taxes too don't they? [/quote]
Yes off course. But they pay taxes and they have advantages. How about us? We pay taxes for what? In Australia if you pay high taxes, but when you get old the government will take care of you no matter what races you are.

[quote]That is why you musn't look down on the Malays. [/quote]
Where you actually get that idea I look down on the Malays?

[quote]I do not have the assumption that the Malay are lazy huaren. [/quote]
No theya re not lazy, the special privilege made then lazy.

You can compare to oversea Malay and local Malay, they are completely different. Their thinking, the way they do thing, completely different.

[quote=huaren,Jun 15 2004, 05:33 PM] [quote]The Chinese school is one thing that I think must be sorted huaren. I believe that all Malaysians should be able to speak some Malay. It is what gives us a mutual language of communication and understanding. When you learn a language, you also learn the values behind it and the society that practises it. This is essential for any country.[/quote]
In Chiense school, they also teach Malay. I myself is from a Chinese primary school, and when I go to middle school, I can speak Malay very well. There is no need to create such rule that will force Chinese school to close down one day.

-Good for you, I hope everyone is like you.

[quote]I was very disappointed when the Chinese medium school opposed the Vision school. To have Chinese schoolchildren go to Chinese school is a disastrous to having Malay children go to pondok/sekolah agama schools because they won't have much chance to interact with each other. [/quote]
The reason why is because if that happen, less and less Chinese will go to Chinese school. This will create a new generation of Chinese who doesn’t know how to speak or read Chinese.

-My understanding of Vision school is that the facilities and infrastructures are shared in one compoound. The Vision school incorporates the three medium schools.

[quote]Childhood is the formative years and this is where we learn to appreciate each other's races. I think the issue here is trust. Do the Chinese trust the govt to run the govt school that will bring together the national Malay medium together with Tamil and Mandarin-speaking Chinese school? I went to a Roman Catolic school and that was the best times of my lifes growing up with all races. [/quote]

In middle school, Malay, Indian and Chinese already mixed together…
-The younger they start, the better.

[quote]The biggest user of Bank Islam today are the Chinese, did you know that? The rates that they give are fairer than most, because Islamic banking is not profit-oriented but more to provide a social service![/quote]
I’m not sure about this, so I cannot argue further about the user.

[quote]You have to speak to the success stories that has happened and then decide. If you surround yourself only with negative things then you won't be able to see what's good there is in the system. [/quote]
Regarding the business, it doesn’t mean that non malay cant do business anymore such policy. The only thing is, it is hard for non Malay to start because the government only provide loan to the Malay.
-Everyone gets loan for all sorts of purposes nowadays: education, housing.

[quote]As I said earlier, I think Chinese schools operating on its own is as bad as the religious pondok schools where there are no mixing between races.[/quote]
Yes mixing with races is a good thing. But you have to take into consideration another factor.
-We all have to give and take, Chinese and Malay.

[quote]I know that Chinese in Philippines and Thailand have equal freedom but my point is that the Chinese's rights in Malaysia has always been looked after. There are no Chinese medium school in Thailand or Philippines but they are in Malaysia. [/quote]
Actually, there are. Thailand especially have a very good friendship with China.
-Sorry, my Chinese friend was the one who told me only Malaysia had full Chinese-medium schools that replaces govt schools. I know the Thai have blood relations with the Chinese, but Msia was the first country to build diplomatic r'ship in the 70s.

[quote]The Chinese in Malaysia never had to change their names to make it sound more Malay. [/quote]
Chinese in Thailand and Philipine also never have to change their names. Only Indonesia.
-My Thai friend of Chinese origins all had their Chinese names made to sound Thai to sound more local

[quote]This is a fundamental difference between the Malay and the Chinese.[/quote]
What do you mean? Do you mean that Chinese are crazy about money like hell? Where you get that idea from?
-I quote from my own Chinese friends! Seriously, Chinese are more money-oriented than the Malays. I hate to generalise but this is quite obvious. Likewise, Malay tends to take things easier.

[quote]The Malay pay taxes too don't they? [/quote]
Yes off course. But they pay taxes and they have advantages. How about us? We pay taxes for what? In Australia if you pay high taxes, but when you get old the government will take care of you no matter what races you are.
-I haven't contributed for penchant or anything yet. In Malaysia, the govt will also take care of its elders irresepctive of race, right. If you can't afford hospital, they will subsidise


[quote]That is why you musn't look down on the Malays. [/quote]
Where you actually get that idea I look down on the Malays?
-It's just the impression that you give that to be Chinese is better than it is to be Malaysian (not specifically Malay)

[quote]I do not have the assumption that the Malay are lazy huaren. [/quote]
No theya re not lazy, the special privilege made then lazy.
-Agreed

You can compare to oversea Malay and local Malay, they are completely different. Their thinking, the way they do thing, completely different.

We are both on the same side here.
[/quote]
We really should start another thread for this.

Why??

Because this is the wrong topic thread!! Hehehe. BTW, I replied in the grey box. Let's move to the new thread I created ok!

Yo! Huaren. Your English sucks man.I can barely figure out what you are saying. Are you sure you are living in Australia ?

I'm really pissed for not having the time to join the discussion lately and by the look of things,I will be very busy for the next few days.Stick around dude.

I think I know where you got these fairy tales from but first of all let me declare my opposition to the preferential treatments being given to Bumiputeras.This policy has given an opportunity for the Chinese to create the myth that Bumiputera progress is because of them.Whatever benefit for Bumiputeras have been negligible and at times have been advantageous to the non-Bumis instead.If you still haven't noticed,the abolishment of the quota system for public universities has already signalled a beginning of the end for pro Bumiputera policies.From the reactions of ethnic Chinese,I'm not sure if they will like it when the entire policy is ended.Already, when some Chinese students found out that their grades are not good enough to study medicine,they have the audacity to challenge the fair selection process.They think they deserve a place simply because they are Chinese and their grades will always be better than Malay sudents.Chauvinist Chinese like these need to be reminded that they are competing openly in a free meritocracy;not some mahjong parlour where you got your stories from.

I have a feeling this will not be the only issue where the Chinese find themselves losing out in a free competitive environment.As more quotas get lifted in the future,I expect them to be caught by surprise again and each time,they will resort to making wild allegations like in the university issue above.They will blame anyone but themselves.

You may wonder if the Malays are better than the Chinese why did we create the policy in the first place.I will start with the history of Malays during British rule.The British had always given preferences to the Chinese as part of their colonial policy.By the time we became independent the Chinese were so far ahead, the Malays were in danger of being second class citizens in their own ancestral land.If we had not used our political advantage to address the imbalance, we would have only ourselves to blame.After independence the majority of Chinese were living in urban areas while most Malays were living in the villages.This was a big handicap for the Malays.Trying to compete when you don't have the infrastructure was not fair considering that communist insurgency being fought by some traitor Chinese were being suppresed by Bumiputera soldiers while the Chinese were comfortably making money for themselves.Malays have made tremendous sacrifices in terms of life and limbs.The only reason Malaysia is a democratic and capitalistic country is because Bumiputeras have been fiercely defending these values.Most Chinese have never fought for this country and yet some behave like they have been doing us a favour.

If you think the Chinese are the ones that will bring Malaysia to a wealthy country status,don't flatter yourself.The biggest taxes are being paid by government companies and multinationals like Petronas,Proton,Intel,Hoechst,Flextronics etc.Whatever meagre amount of taxes being paid by the Chinese were all used to run Chinese medium schools and to combat Chinese gangsters who are extorting money from their own kind.I wouldn't be surprised if some taxes paid by Malays ended up financing a cleaning operation of rivers being polluted by Chinese pig farms.

I can agree that most retailers in the cities are Chinese but it is no big deal really.Margins for this line of business is razor thin if any.Malays would have made serious inroads by now if it was lucrative but after seeing these Chinese took a beating from superefficient hypermarkets,why would they want to go down the same hole?Malay small entrepreneurs prefer to go after less risky and more profitable businesses such as the restaurant franchising,gas stations and car dealerships.A recently introduced ruling which ban new hypermarkets such as TESCO,Jusco and Makro in the west coast and prevents hypermarkets from opening 24 hours is a fine example of how the government is helping those lazy Chinese at the expense of the ordinary consumer.

I don't know where you got the idea of trying to get business loans from governments.This is a capitalist country.People apply for loans from financial institutions! However,I have come across cases where the government hand out cash grants to Malay and Chinese companies to purchase high tech machineries.As regards to banks being merged by government directives,there is no political motive behind it.This country simply had too many inefficient little banks.Besides,the Chinese shareholders still get to keep their stocks in the combined entity.Some banks still have a Chinese as the biggest stockholder after a merger.

Contrary to what you said,the government have been having trouble getting the Chinese into public services because the Chinese are usually interested in high wages.Most of us are already aware of how pathetic the government's salary scale is.

What I am trying to tell you is to judge your people first before expressing your delusional nonsense of Chinese superiority.It's unhealthy and very annoying.

very bad

This is indead a tragic news!