Man I hate this. Some people open their mouth and talk about Vietnamese culture and our homeland like they know us or something just by reading a couple books, when really they don’t know anything. I laugh when I see a lot of Chinese constantly hanging on to the notion that we Viet came from China. who is chinese anyway?

I don’t see much northeast Asians like Koreans or Japanese or Vietnamese telling anybody that Asians came from China. Why? Because they got pride in their race. So take pride in yours and stop yelling out that we "possibly" Chinese.

to emperor

would you please stop to claimed us viet are related to chinese? i would appreciated that.

dude..you are a strange one...we cant go back to time...so we have to learn our history from books and archeologists...from the research and folktales that i heard....we probably did came from southern china...but we had ancestors who were living in northern vietnam at that time....so the two ethnics intertwined and become the modern vietnamese...through dna research...we have genes that are very very close to the southern chinese who are cantonese, hakka, and even hui..i am just basing my thoughts on other people who do the research and of course books...so what you are saying Tyler is just nonsense...you really need to read more....

How Come The Majority Chinese Insist That, Vietnamese related to Chinese?

> Because we are.

- I see locked threads.

Vietnamese are not Chinese, and that is the fact. We've been in the Red delta as long as they have been around their craddle.



"I am afraid of those who only reads one book." - Some dude.

"Books are like shoes, use it wisely to walk." - Some dude.

why don't you say it the other way around? the chinese came from vietnam. like i said earlier, who is chinese? aren't they just a small group of people from the begin with, but later on they incoperated with some minority group around them?

Tyler, just look at it this way...

Some Africans wondered from Africa to Asia, half of them went to what is now China, and half of them went to what is now Vietnam.


Hheehhee...

i've read this artical somewhere that the humankind wasn't came from africa since they just found some new evidences

because it is not true..even back then..the true Han far outnumbered our ancestor the Viet..but you have to understandthe Viet i am mentioning here is closely related to us but not the Modern Viet...ok now back to the old Viet...our ancester the Viet were then driven to Northern Vietnam..they of course...started breeding with the local folks..this is the tricky part..we dont really know who the local folks in northern vietnam are..they could be malay for all we know...but our ancester the Viet breed with the local folks..walaahhh.Middle Vietnamese...and of course then later we were conquered for 1000 years..this 1000 years really confused us even more...during this time we of course breed with the Han and walaahh Modern Vietnamese..ok did i explain it well enough for you to understand Tyler10? i used alot of props..i hope it makes a little easier on you to comprehend this confusing story

ok, let me ask you this. would you marry to someone who just killed your family from yesterday? i know i wouldn't...as you can see, the chinese conquered us for 1000 years, do you think the viet will intermarry with their enemy? i don't think so.

then let me ask you this how come the ancient who were left behind in southern china married with the true Han? it is call assimilation..we were close to be assimilated just like the viet who left behind..but we somehow still retain a sense of nationalist..that was how we broke free from the Han

I agree with ya sailador. But you forgot the other mixing, the mix with Chams and Khmers.

1. True Viets (Ancient Viets) from the Red delta to what is now south China, this is non-Han.
2. 1st mix with Ancient Viets and Han began around 200 B.C. (Middle Age Viets)
3. 2nd mix with Middle Age Viets with Chams and Khmers began around 1500 A.D. (Modern Viets)


So I guess we are the Modern Viets.

Am I right dudes?

you are right..but i can tell you this..not all modern viet are mixed with cham and khmer..i know i am not...i can pretty much trace my ancestor way back

Yeah, I agree. The 2nd mix is just for some of the people from Central and South.

1. True Viets (Ancient Viets) from the Red delta to what is now south China, this is non-Han.
2. 1st mix with Ancient Viets and Han began around 200 B.C. (Middle Age Viets)
Ancient Viets retained the Ancient Viets life and broke away from Han (mostly in north Vietnam). But some Viet-Han still lives and mix with the Ancient Viets.
3. 2nd mix with Middle Age Viets with Chams and Khmers began around 1500 A.D. (Modern Viets)
This is just for some in Central and South.

PERFECT...impressive Dai Viet...i could tell you are an intelligent guy

We're related to southern chinese because they are part of hundreds yue family. After the Han conquered the land, most of the yue people were assimilated and interbred with the Han. Now a day they all seemed to consider themeselve as Han (shame on them).

did you guys know that the ancient word for "to know" in the Min Yue ancient language was "biet" and the Nan Yue word for "dog" was "cho" ..

Hehehehe... just my opinion though.

So I guess we're not Chinese afterall eh? We could be Ancient Viets, who knows? I am likely to be an Ancient Viet.

What's Min Yue and Nam Yue? But funny though. LOL.

Pretty much thats the Chinese translation of Man Viet and Nam Viet 2 old kingdoms in southern china..

yah..i told you guys...65 percent of our words originated from chinese..like i said the word khong..which means 0...rarely any chinese use it now...but it is chinese..mandarin to be exact..no matter how hard we try to distinguish ourselves from the chinese..we just cant....we are intertwined with them..either by borrowing their language or culture...sad but true..but it is ok..we can move on..

Woa! Interesting! Mân Việt and Nam Việt.

So we do speak the Ancient Viets language until today, but some words just got different huh?


Yay! I am so proud to be Vietnamese.


:loveyou: Việt Nam

Yea agreed the soul of the Viets never died with those kingdoms..

you cant really blame them...those Viets there were really outnumbered big time by the Han...but did you know the chinese from taiwan..who i believed are the Hakka and the Fukinese..they have more Viet blood in them then any other Han...even though they considered themselves Han..but through DNA analysis they are the closest related to us...back then they were really Yuet Or Viet..and i am just assuming they married a Han..but then married within their group more which are the Viet..so that is why they still retain the Viet's trace

hmm I read somewhere that the Hakka's are the original Han from Northern China..

i heard that fujian people in taiwan also chew cashew and betel nuts like us.

just read this..i got this from Mr Clean..he is quite articulate..and he can explain it better than me


? Mystery Man ?

Registered: May 2003
Posts: 40
Last Logged On:
8/30/2003 7:01:42 PM
No, Viets in no way are chinese. Not technically or figuratively either. For one, the Viets lived in southern Fukien before the Chinese Han came in. That territory was Vietnamese, at that time, there were no such thing as Chinese people on that land, thus Viets didn't migrate from China, they migrated from land that now belongs to China. There is a huge difference. We are related, but in no way can be be Chinese. We could've once been considered Chinese, as in the nation, because Viets were conquered by the Chinese, and through nation we were part of China for a while. But through blood, i highly doubt it, because throughout history, there has only been 2 huge Chinese migrations. One of them after the Ming dynasty fell (most were put in southern Vietnam, and that's why a lot of Chinese live in Ho Chi Minh City), and another was a huge Chinese army which later went back to China.

We can't technically be Chinese because it is proven by genetic research. HLA to be exact. One average, Cambodians have more Chinese genes than Viets, this might be hard to believe, but it's true. I posted the links on another thread, i think it's called "Chinese in Vietnam" or something and if you want go check it out. It's under Vietnamese Culture.

Although there's no such thing as 100% of anything, genetic research has shown that we're not even 10% Han, when the Cambodians are around 40%! When the Taiwanese and Fukienese are 80% Viet and 20% Han Chinese! Who technically, through blood, most of Taiwan (the Minnan who are 80% of Taiwan) and southern Fukienese are Viet, and half of the Cantonese speaking people have huge Viet influence as well.

So just saying Viets are Chinese is highly inaccurate. Because in a way, southern Chinese are Viet as well. Viets WERE (past tense, meaning not anymore) because of the territory we lived on, but southern Chinese are Viet because of genetics. So there's like a tag game going on, you can say either way, but don't make it sound like you know what you're saying, because it's not true when you say it. Everyone is mixed a bit. The Chinese in Fukien, Taiwan and Guangdong have huge Viet blood influence because Viets used to live there, and lived in those areas before the Chinese came in. When the Chinese came in, the majority of the people were Viet, but a lot lost their identity and now just consider themselves Chinese. Chinese from other areas on the other hand are a lot more pure, and by this i mean Chinese in areas like Hunan (where most Chinese live), where Viets never lived in huge numbers.

History lesson: Viets lived in southern Fukien (or Fujian) 2.5 thousand years ago. The Chinese at that time lived in what is now Northern China. They were the only Chinese, no one else. They moved south and attacked Yueh (which literally means Viet) territory for land, the Viets fought back for tens of years before losing. After losing, the Viets moved south to Guangdong and GuangXi to avoid being ruled by opressors, a lot of them stayed and now don't even know that they're blood is mostly Viet. The Chinese attacked again, it took them a few years to win, but once again they won. Most of the Viets this time moved south to where is now N. Vietnam. For hundreds of years there was peace. Then the Chinese attacked again, and they won. Every 50 years or so a war would break out again and again where control of Northern Vietnam is switched from Chinese back to Viet hands then back to Chinese once again. This happens till around 1000 AD when Viets decided to just play peaceful with the Chinese by giving them tribute (after defeating the Chinese army, what better to do then woo them with gifts?). The Chinese were happy and never attacked again till Ming Dynasty times, by which the Viet gov't was weak and lost, but about 20 years later Vietnam grabbed control once again and now we are still free. Well, not mentioning the french.

If you think the Vietnamese can be called Chinese, then Viets can also be called French. Because the french ruled Vietnam at one time too. The Chinese ruled Vietnam like the French did, having the army inside the country and having officials, but NO migrations of people moved into Vietnam! Maybe small groups of people, but that's not noticeable enough to show up as a huge factor in recent GENETIC tests which prove we don't have much Chinese Han genetic markers in us.

Anyways just saying. WE ARE NOT CHINESE, BY ANY MEANS AT ALL. Some mixing probably occured, but it's not by any huge means. Like i marry a Chinese, but all my kids marry a Viet, and their children marry Viets for the next 10 generations, then a kid marrys a Chinese again after 300 years, etc... There is chinese blood, but not a huge deal. We are still primarily Viet, and are separate from the Chinese.



Signature
People who know me, don't know me well enough; People who want to know me, don't take the initiative to start knowin' me...
---From me (when this girl asked me how come no one knows my B-day)

you are right drunkenmonkey we are very closely related to fukinese almost 80 percent be exact

Another weird story there was this girl that I met, so we start to talk, I asked her where she was from she told me China, I said "kool I thought you were Thai, then she says "people think Iam VietNamese, because when I go to Vietnamese restaurants they always speak to me in Viet , but I dont understand " Then she says "how could that be "Iam pure Chinese Iam from Guang Dong " I had a little chuckle then. The girl didn't even know about the history of the land she lived in ....... ..

here is another argument from Mr Clean..whether you agreed with it or not is your choice..but for the most part i agreed with this guy


Historically we were Chinese because they ruled us, but historically we were French too. Through genetics, recent genetic research has showed we have very little in common history, unless you drag on to cavemen days. Modern Chinese are descendents to northern asians, while Viets were SOUTHERN Asian (most lived in what is now southern China, but we lived there before the Chinese came in and before they ruled the place, so through blood back then we never mixed, and afterwards we had too many wars to mix, it was taboo to marry eachother, EXTREME racism, back then a Viet marrying a Chinese was like a Black marrying a White during American slave days, it's extremely rare and looked down upon because the Chinese saw Viets as slaves and lower forms of human, that's why the Viets never assimilated, because we never felt like we were part of China, we were always oppressed under Chinese rule and thus kept our genetics clear of huge Chinese influence).
Plus, Chinese are only a huge mixture of 7 different people and a few small minorities. If you learn Chinese history you'll know this. There were 7 nations in what is now China 2.5 thousand years ago. EVERY NATION LOST to what is now China, the victor were the Han, and the people are now called. Only six of the 7 nations started to mix, the 7th were the Viets who moved south to avoid becoming Chinese (we later lost, but the huge mixing ended by then, and there were already distincally a group of people called the Chinese, the Viets only became part of China after this, and thus the Viets never fit in because of constant resistance and hatred). And today, we are the ONLY nation to have lost to China, yet still have our identity, just look at the Viets (technically by blood) in Taiwan and Fukien who don't even know they are Viet. We did ourselves well by keeping our identity.

Be proud of who you are, and stop calling yourselves Chinese. Because it just sounds rediculous, it is plausible, and without analysis sounds quite logical, but if you learn Viet history, and look into Genetic research, it's not even close to being true, and the total opposite is more true.

WTF?? that's impossible.


again, that's pretty impossible. :genius:

original viet are more likely to be more related to southeast asian than chinese or even southern chinese for that matter. just look at the viet language. in my opinion, without the chinese sinicization, viet would be totally different today in terms of phsycial appearance and culture/society. you do know that ancient chinese normally refer to anybody non-chinese as uncivilized barbarians and what not.

I agree with Mr. Clean. I have never called myself Chinese before, because it's just not right.

VIET sounds so much better. VIET VIET VIET VIET VIET VIET VIET VIET...

Sorry, just to get it in you guys.

I heard someone said that the Viet in those 7 nations are not Viet. It is just the same name ?

I agree, we are not Han - we fought for like 3000 years maybe even more nobody truly knows, all I know is what I see, I do not see a Han face looking at me when I look into the mirror.. I can see Viet features right away, Eyes not too small skin is light not dark, But the thing is i see all shapes and forms in Vietnam , we are definitely not homogenous..

that part of his is kiinda iffy...but when he said about the 7 ethnics in China..and the 6 got conquered by the Han that is true..the 7 ethnic is the Yuet or Viet..the viet were partially conquered...and the rest of other Viet ran to Northern Vietnam..that part i agreed too...but some of this guys other theories is really far fetch..but it is kinda good reading though

Yep you are quite rite. The South Vietnamese looks quite different to North Vietnamese to me. I've been to Saigon two times and yeah they look a little bit different. I can see that. The ones who look like North maybe just the North move down to the South.

Yeah, that's just impossible.

But yeah, VIET VIET VIET VIET VIET... AAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEE WWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

does anybody have written accounts of chinese about vietnamese civilization before chinese conquest?

those are Viets are the ancient Viet..they mixed in with local population in northern Vietnam..possibly the mon-khmer people who are related to the modern khmer..that is why our language has the syntax of mon-khmer but vocabularies of chinese

No angkorwat19 you people are more closely related to the Chinese than we R
We did not meet you people until about the 17th century or around there..

another one from Mr Clean..this guy is pretty interesting..he has some crazy theories..but some of them actually make sense

Technically we are related through the fact that we are mongoloids (meaning yellow skinned, but the Chinese do not monopolize this group of people, this group of people include more than just the Chinese). Meaning 50 thousand years ago we were probably related (but this applies to the Thais, Japanese, Koreans, Tibetans and certain Europeans groups as well), BUT that does not mean we Viets are Chinese. Because in many aspects the Chinese could be Viets. Yet no one ever mentions it and it really bothers me. We are all just humans, and whatever we are born into be proud of it, don't try to degrade your own people, or try to affiliate your own people to another when you have no facts to back it up.

Technically through nationality (in the same way you are American) the Viets were Chinese for a few hundred years at a time (in total about a thousand years, but within this thousand years every 50-75 years there's a war between the two peoples where the Viets get control back again but loses because the Chinese send in more and more soldiers outnumbering us like crazy... but soon their army goes home of course and we destroy the men that stays behind, they always underestimate our power and think that if they have equal number they can subdue us, through history this has been proven wrong, usually you have to outnumber us by 2 or more to win). But through blood, and thus scientifically, we kept our blood fairly clean and thus by blood we are still not Chinese. And today we are neither blood related to the Chinese (unless you go back to cavemen days over 50 thousand years ago), nor are we related through nation (like how a black person is related to you because he is also american, but you are still viet, and by blood you are not blood relates, but through nationality as in america, you are the same, get the drift?).

Yep, I agree. Is it just me or is it that north Vietnamese have smaller eyes, straight hair, whiter, and don't have eyelashes? South Vietnamese have bigger eyes, darker, and have eyelashes? Central is a mix of those two.

Hehehehe...

My friend for obvious reasons no record or very little was kept therefore we had to go by on lengend.. and what little record the Chinese did keep...

I agree with Mr. Clean.

another one from mr clean..damn this guy is good...crazy but very intelligent..


Stop it all and look for the truth before saying something you're not sure of. Don't assume we are Chinese because we have yellow skin. Although we are related because we do have yellow skin, we split up a long time ago, before the time of China or Vietnam, at that time that one group wasn't considered Chinese or Viet, so calling it one or the other is a fallacy. It was a collective group of people. Today's Viets are only a subgroup of yesterday's Viets. Ancient Viet is a group of people who branch off to what is today's Vietnamese, southern Fukienese and 80% of Taiwan's population. We are the ONLY people who kept our identity, and i am here today to say, we better keep that identity. Our brothers have disgraced us, yet we fought on for a thousand years to stay autonomous, don't disgrace your ancestors by spreading lies of your own people. Sure we have chinese influence, but is this genetic influence any larger than what the Cham have on us? The clear and simple answer is, HELL FRICKEN NO. They only influenced us largely through culture, but that's because of the oppressive laws that were put on our people. Check the genetic research out, it is all there. Genetic markers are indications of genetic mutations that occur in a group of people, if you don't have it, it's highly likely that you weren't part of the group. 80% of these genetic markers are shared between the Vietnamese, Fukienese and Taiwanese (most taiwanese come from Fukien, so that's understandable), but aren't shared with the rest of China, which indicates that these markers are a sign of common ancestry different from that of the Chinese. But if you read my post, you'd know this and the topic will stop coming up. Because although we are influenced, we are majorly more Viet than anything else, and the Chinese genetic influence is minimal, it's only comparable to Cham and small groups.

Yeah that's maybe true even I don't have small eyes But what are eyeslashes :-/ But if there is any differences, those differences are small, I think :-) All Viet from Central or South were from North move southward.

sailador, what site did you get all these info from? viet forum?

Rock on Mr. Clean!

You are my new hero.

more from mr clean..good history lesson for you guys...so remember we ARE VIET..VIET..VIET..VIET..VIET

Nice fact about the other provinces never really gaining their independence. But you've got one thing wrong. A province does not equal an ancient nation back before the days of China. Vietnam was not united by borders, it was united by a strong group of people who wanted humane self-rule and had enough strength and righteousness to know what was right and wrong. Being oppressed by another group of people was wrong. Preserving who you are is right. That's what we were fighting for all along. The ONLY reason why Viets never recognized the chinese, was because they tried to take away things that defined us. And we resisted.

The ONLY reason why we are not Chinese today, is because we never married heavily with the Chinese, proven by genetics (We hold very little Han Chinese blood, while in southern China, mainly Taiwan, Fukien and Guangdong, most have over 80% of their blood, and genetic markers, being that of the Viets who used to live there, the Han Chinese didn't really move in with huge numbers in those areas either, and even in smaller numbers to Vietnam). IF we married heavily with them, our pride and loyalty would've been with the Chinese emperors, but no. Our loyalty belonged to our people, and our land, our mothers, and our fathers, our sisters, our brothers, and most important of all, our sons and daughters.

Just think about it. Taiwanese and Fukienese still have 80% of the Viet genetic markers, meaning they are more related to us Viets than they are to Han Chinese! That might sound ackward, because they are considered Han, but that's only through culture and who they have loyalty to (and who they identify with), but by blood they are Viet. Think about it. If losing only 20% of your Viet blood make you think you are Chinese, then we Viets in Vietnam mustn't have lost much of our genetics at all to be still this loyal to our roots (instead of being like the Fukienese and Taiwanese and just call themselves Han Chiense). There are many Viets with Chinese blood in them today, but through genetics, they are the minority. BUT, if they recognize where their loyalties lie, they are Viet.

Oh my God, I just found myself a new hero, Mr. Clean.

Rock on!

this guy has alot more to say..but you guys got the drift..so we are Vietnamese..through genetic we are closely related to the fukinese..no wonder some of the taiwanese people kinda look like me..i always wonder that..i am like damn..they kinda like my family and i (referring to taiwanese people)