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DAI_VIET
For example:

Shrimp: tôm
How many of you say "tơm"? I say it "tôm"

Rice: cơm
I say it as "cơm" but some people say it "côm"

Viet: Việt
I say "Việt" as it is, still, people keep saying "diệt"

Go home: về
I say it as "về", people say it "dề" and they actually write it that way too!

And many many more...


Arrrgghh... its irritates me when people pronounce their Vietnamese so bad and wrong! Arrgghh... madgo.gif
sailador
i speak saigonese..so it is totally wrong from your perspective embarassedlaugh.gif
lthv22
For example:

Shrimp: tôm
How many of you say "tơm"? I say it "tôm"

I am from Danang so I say "tôm". I think if you go further
south, some people say "tơm". The same goes for "côm"
as well.

Rice: cơm
I say it as "cơm" but some people say it "côm"

Viet: Việt
I say "Việt" as it is, still, people keep saying "diệt"

haha...you know if someone is from southerner if
they pronounce "d" in place of "v".

Go home: về
I say it as "về", people say it "dề" and they actually write it that way too!

And many many more...

I think the northern pronounciation is used as a standard. Why?
They can differenciate 6 tones better than any other regions.
As further you go south, the number of tones drops.
Although, the northerner have a few difficulty in some pronounciation
of certian words, but overall, they are as close to pronouncing vietnamese
as you can get.


Arrrgghh... its irritates me when people pronounce their Vietnamese so bad and wrong! Arrgghh... madgo.gif

Why so irritate?
I find it boring if everyone do it with the same accent.
Variety is the spices of life.
supernovasp
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 04:13 PM)
For example:

Shrimp: tôm
How many of you say "tơm"? I say it "tôm"

Rice: cơm
I say it as "cơm" but some people say it "côm"

Viet: Việt
I say "Việt" as it is, still, people keep saying "diệt"

Go home: về
I say it as "về", people say it "dề" and they actually write it that way too!

And many many more...


Arrrgghh... its irritates me when people pronounce their Vietnamese so bad and wrong! Arrgghh...  madgo.gif

What's wrong with it though?

Our writing system is very outdated. The r sound doesn't exist anymore in hanoi dialect and the northern dialect as a whole, and it's supposed to be the country dialect. Yet, we still write it as "r".

It's becoming like english, where spellings are totally off of the pronounciation.

Strangely, southern dialect retains more of the old Viet dialect, such as no nga~ thanh which developed in Bacbo^. in 17th century, retaining the r consonant, retaining the y consonant (yiet instead of viet, corresponding with cantonese yuet) etc.
Nam Quoc Son Ha
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 04:13 PM)
For example:

Shrimp: tôm
How many of you say "tơm"? I say it "tôm"

Rice: cơm
I say it as "cơm" but some people say it "côm"

Viet: Việt
I say "Việt" as it is, still, people keep saying "diệt"

Go home: về
I say it as "về", people say it "dề" and they actually write it that way too!

And many many more...


Arrrgghh... its irritates me when people pronounce their Vietnamese so bad and wrong! Arrgghh... madgo.gif

You can't really be critical of the northern, central or southern accents. They all pronounce some right and some totally wrong.
DAI_VIET
QUOTE (lthv22 @ May 6 2004, 04:29 PM)
For example:

Shrimp: tôm
How many of you say "tơm"? I say it "tôm"

I am from Danang so I say "tôm". I think if you go further
south, some people say "tơm". The same goes for "côm"
as well.

Rice: cơm
I say it as "cơm" but some people say it "côm"

Viet: Việt
I say "Việt" as it is, still, people keep saying "diệt"

haha...you know if someone is from southerner if
they pronounce "d" in place of "v".

Go home: về
I say it as "về", people say it "dề" and they actually write it that way too!

And many many more...

I think the northern pronounciation is used as a standard. Why?
They can differenciate 6 tones better than any other regions.
As further you go south, the number of tones drops.
Although, the northerner have a few difficulty in some pronounciation
of certian words, but overall, they are as close to pronouncing vietnamese
as you can get.


Arrrgghh... its irritates me when people pronounce their Vietnamese so bad and wrong! Arrgghh... madgo.gif

Why so irritate?
I find it boring if everyone do it with the same accent.
Variety is the spices of life.

Yes! I found someone from Da Nang, are you in Da Nang? Or was from Da Nang? I was from Da Nang. Yea!

Take that southerners!
DAI_VIET
QUOTE (supernovasp @ May 6 2004, 05:07 PM)
Strangely, southern dialect retains more of the old Viet dialect, such as no nga~ thanh which developed in Bacbo^. in 17th century, retaining the r consonant, retaining the y consonant (yiet instead of viet, corresponding with cantonese yuet) etc.

Oh please, the southerners don't retain the Old Viet, it's the northerners and some centralers. Why do you always base Viet words from Cantonese just because of one letter, "y" and "v"?

We don't give a crap if they call Viet as Yuet, our people have been saying Viet for thousands of years, and yet, and southerners just developed in the past few hundred years and you base on that and claim that southerners retain the Old Viet pronounciation.

You are always like that, everything has to be based on the Chinese. Arrgghh... what the hell is wrong with you?
sailador
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:16 PM)
QUOTE (supernovasp @ May 6 2004, 05:07 PM)
Strangely, southern dialect retains more of the old Viet dialect, such as no nga~ thanh which developed in Bacbo^. in 17th century, retaining the r consonant, retaining the y consonant (yiet instead of viet, corresponding with cantonese yuet) etc.

Oh please, the southerners don't retain the Old Viet, it's the northerners and some centralers. Why do you always base Viet words from Cantonese just because of one letter, "y" and "v"?

We don't give a crap if they call Viet as Yuet, our people have been saying Viet for thousand of years, and yet, and southerners just developed in the past few hundred years and you base on that and claim that southerners retain the Old Viet pronounciation.

You are always like that, everything has to be based on the Chinese. Arrgghh... what the hell is wrong with you?

to tell you the truth..i dont understand a single word when the central people speak..it sounds all jibberish to me
Nam Quoc Son Ha
QUOTE (sailador @ May 6 2004, 06:18 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:16 PM)
QUOTE (supernovasp @ May 6 2004, 05:07 PM)
Strangely, southern dialect retains more of the old Viet dialect, such as no nga~ thanh which developed in Bacbo^. in 17th century, retaining the r consonant, retaining the y consonant (yiet instead of viet, corresponding with cantonese yuet) etc.

Oh please, the southerners don't retain the Old Viet, it's the northerners and some centralers. Why do you always base Viet words from Cantonese just because of one letter, "y" and "v"?

We don't give a crap if they call Viet as Yuet, our people have been saying Viet for thousand of years, and yet, and southerners just developed in the past few hundred years and you base on that and claim that southerners retain the Old Viet pronounciation.

You are always like that, everything has to be based on the Chinese. Arrgghh... what the hell is wrong with you?

to tell you the truth..i dont understand a single word when the central people speak..it sounds all jibberish to me

The Centralers can't even pronounce any Vientnamese word right.

The Northerners pronounce words starting with "D" as "Gi"

The southerners pronounce words starting with "Gi" as "D" and "R" as "G"
tattra
Đoạ Vịt, ba bốn bữa tám tắm một bữa. Tóa nay gọa cho em tém nhe .... hahahaha
sailador
QUOTE (tattra @ May 6 2004, 06:27 PM)
Đoạ Vịt, ba bốn bữa tám tắm một bữa. Tóa nay gọa cho em tém nhe .... hahahaha

clueless confused.gif
tattra
Daiviet, 347-8817. Tối nay, gọi cho em Tám nhe. Just a Quang Nam/Quang Ngai joke icon_wink.gif
DAI_VIET
QUOTE (tattra @ May 6 2004, 06:30 PM)
Daiviet, 347-8817. Tối nay, gọi cho em Tám nhe. Just a Quang Nam/Quang Ngai joke icon_wink.gif

LOL. embarassedlaugh.gif LOL.

NQSH, you certaintly have not been to the central yet, we (especially Da Nang area) pronounce Vietnamese exact as they are written.
HiepNT
In each regions, they use some different words. For example : muỗng in Saigon, muôi in Hanoi.

To say that a word can be pronounced differently in each region is wrong.
How can "Việt" be pronounced as "Diệt" ???
That person can not speak Vietnamese well or he/she tries to speak "slang".

To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.

Give me a Vietnamese word, 99% there is only one way to read it.
DAI_VIET
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.
Nam Quoc Son Ha
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?
DAI_VIET
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ May 6 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?

embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif LOL. embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif

You little son of a...

Hey! I don't say it, the nha que people say it.
Nam Quoc Son Ha
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 07:05 PM)
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ May 6 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?

embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif LOL. embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif

You little son of a...

Hey! I don't say it, the nha que people say it.

Excuse excuse embarassedlaugh.gif

But that wasn't even my point. What I'm saying is that no accent pronounce the Vietnamese language perfectly. The north, central and South all has flaws.
supernovasp
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:16 PM)
QUOTE (supernovasp @ May 6 2004, 05:07 PM)
Strangely, southern dialect retains more of the old Viet dialect, such as no nga~ thanh which developed in Bacbo^. in 17th century, retaining the r consonant, retaining the y consonant (yiet instead of viet, corresponding with cantonese yuet) etc.

Oh please, the southerners don't retain the Old Viet, it's the northerners and some centralers. Why do you always base Viet words from Cantonese just because of one letter, "y" and "v"?

We don't give a crap if they call Viet as Yuet, our people have been saying Viet for thousand of years, and yet, and southerners just developed in the past few hundred years and you base on that and claim that southerners retain the Old Viet pronounciation.

You are always like that, everything has to be based on the Chinese. Arrgghh... what the hell is wrong with you?

No we didn't call ourselve Viet for godsake, viet here actually means beyond the south, which describe the "nam man" people from the chinese icon_redface.gif.

We are the descendant of the tribes populated in north vietnam, we called ourselve the a^u and lac (although these two sounds are actually translated to han viet from our lost ancient words). Coincidentally, Lauk is indonesian for tribe.

I said "surprisingly" that southerners actually retained a lot of traditional viet dialect. A lot of southerners like me can actually pronounce the "r" correctly and "d" correctly. Also, reportedly Northerners people also hardly use the "bo^ng" word anymore, while the southerners use it equally with hoa.
HiepNT
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ May 6 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?

Just a few I think :-)
And also I have never heard anyone say Đè Nẽng for Đà Nẵng. If someone says that he/she doesn't pronounce correctly. For example : some people can not pronounce "L" or "ngã" . Ví dụ Thế Là --> thế nà , ngã --> ngá .

But Việt and Diệt --> it sounds totally different for me like you are saying two different words.

I affirm that there is only one way to read a Vietnamese word correctly. Probably there are some rare cases.
sailador
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ May 6 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?

Just a few I think :-)
And also I have never heard anyone say Đè Nẽng for Đà Nẵng. If someone says that he/she doesn't pronounce correctly. For example : some people can not pronounce "L" or "ngã" . Ví dụ Thế Là --> thế nà , ngã --> ngá .

But Việt and Diệt --> it sounds totally different for me like you are saying two different words.

I affirm that there is only one way to read a Vietnamese word correctly. Probably there are some rare cases.

in saigon everyone say Diet instead of Viet..or ddi de instead of ddi ve...dui instead of vui...etc...nothing wrong with it...just different variations
supernovasp
In Dai Viet Su Ky, reportedly our first "country" name ever is Xích Quỷ. If you don't know the Chinese usually named the babarian states with " Quỷ"
DAI_VIET
What the hell is wrong with you supernovasp? That doesn't explain anything.
supernovasp
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ May 6 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?

Just a few I think :-)
And also I have never heard anyone say Đè Nẽng for Đà Nẵng. If someone says that he/she doesn't pronounce correctly. For example : some people can not pronounce "L" or "ngã" . Ví dụ Thế Là --> thế nà , ngã --> ngá .

But Việt and Diệt --> it sounds totally different for me like you are saying two different words.

I affirm that there is only one way to read a Vietnamese word correctly. Probably there are some rare cases.

Thế Là --> thế nà

Actually it's the way around

Some northerners can't pronounce the "n" vowel like instead saying "Ha Noi", they say "Ha loi".... which reminds me of another language... icon_redface.gif
supernovasp
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 07:26 PM)
What the hell is wrong with you supernovasp? That doesn't explain anything.

that was a random comment relating about "viet" word, also means that Dai Viet Su KY is somewhat biased.
sailador
QUOTE (supernovasp @ May 6 2004, 07:25 PM)
In Dai Viet Su Ky, reportedly our first "country" name ever is Xích Quỷ. If you don't know the Chinese usually named the babarian states with " Quỷ"

you saying Quy as in Ghost?
HiepNT
QUOTE (sailador @ May 6 2004, 07:23 PM)
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ May 6 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?

Just a few I think :-)
And also I have never heard anyone say Đè Nẽng for Đà Nẵng. If someone says that he/she doesn't pronounce correctly. For example : some people can not pronounce "L" or "ngã" . Ví dụ Thế Là --> thế nà , ngã --> ngá .

But Việt and Diệt --> it sounds totally different for me like you are saying two different words.

I affirm that there is only one way to read a Vietnamese word correctly. Probably there are some rare cases.

in saigon everyone say Diet instead of Viet..or ddi de instead of ddi ve...dui instead of vui...etc...nothing wrong with it...just different variations

I don't think so. So you say "Việt" as "Diệt". How are you gonna say "Diệt" (the true meaning of Diệt). So u pronounce Việt and Diệt same ?? All Vietnamese in South I know say Việt as Việt. Because it is just the correct way.
supernovasp
QUOTE (sailador @ May 6 2004, 07:29 PM)
QUOTE (supernovasp @ May 6 2004, 07:25 PM)
In Dai Viet Su Ky, reportedly our first "country" name ever is Xích Quỷ. If you don't know the Chinese usually named the babarian states with " Quỷ"

you saying Quy as in Ghost?

yes

Bộ: quỷ (鬼)
鬼 quỷ

[Pinyin: gui3, kuai4, kui3]

Ma, người chết gọi là quỷ.
Quỷ quái. Người tính ấm hiểm gọi là quỷ vực鬼蜮.
Sao Quỷ, một ngôi sao trong nhị thập bát tú.
supernovasp
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:30 PM)
QUOTE (sailador @ May 6 2004, 07:23 PM)
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ May 6 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?

Just a few I think :-)
And also I have never heard anyone say Đè Nẽng for Đà Nẵng. If someone says that he/she doesn't pronounce correctly. For example : some people can not pronounce "L" or "ngã" . Ví dụ Thế Là --> thế nà , ngã --> ngá .

But Việt and Diệt --> it sounds totally different for me like you are saying two different words.

I affirm that there is only one way to read a Vietnamese word correctly. Probably there are some rare cases.

in saigon everyone say Diet instead of Viet..or ddi de instead of ddi ve...dui instead of vui...etc...nothing wrong with it...just different variations

I don't think so. So you say "Việt" as "Diệt". How are you gonna say "Diệt" (the true meaning of Diệt). So u pronounce Việt and Diệt same ?? All Vietnamese in South I know say Việt as Việt. Because it is just the correct way.

I don't know about your parents, but mine pronounced vietnam yietnam, and so most of saigon natives.
sailador
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:30 PM)
QUOTE (sailador @ May 6 2004, 07:23 PM)
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ May 6 2004, 07:04 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 06:58 PM)
Yup, they use lots of local words, such as ahmm... well, lots of them.

QUOTE
To say the Centralers can't even pronounce any Vietnamese word right is not correct either. They just use many local words --> hard to understand.


How would you explain centralers pronouncing Đà Nẵng as Đè Nẽng?

Just a few I think :-)
And also I have never heard anyone say Đè Nẽng for Đà Nẵng. If someone says that he/she doesn't pronounce correctly. For example : some people can not pronounce "L" or "ngã" . Ví dụ Thế Là --> thế nà , ngã --> ngá .

But Việt and Diệt --> it sounds totally different for me like you are saying two different words.

I affirm that there is only one way to read a Vietnamese word correctly. Probably there are some rare cases.

in saigon everyone say Diet instead of Viet..or ddi de instead of ddi ve...dui instead of vui...etc...nothing wrong with it...just different variations

I don't think so. So you say "Việt" as "Diệt". How are you gonna say "Diệt" (the true meaning of Diệt). So u pronounce Việt and Diệt same ?? All Vietnamese in South I know say Việt as Việt. Because it is just the correct way.

i know what part of saigon you are from...but the saigon i am from they all say Diet..so dont doubt me.. embarassedlaugh.gif
supernovasp
Trích từ hai quyển sách VPVN và VPVNVN:
Interesting information

Giọng Xưa...Bây Giờ (B)...Nam
blời............giời..............trời
mlớn..........nhớn............lớn
tlâu............trâu.............trâu

Thế Kỷ 17...Bây Giờ...Vị Dụ
b...............v............bua=vua
d...............nh..........dè dẹ=nhè nhẹ
bl..............gi/l/tr......blả ơn=giả ơn, blúc blắc=lúc lắc, blời=trời
ml, mnh.....l, nh........mlẽ=ẽ, mnhời=nhời
tl...............tr............ăn tlộm=ăn trộm, con blâu=con trâu
aõ.............ong.........saõ=song
ấc.............ốc............quấc=quốc
oũ.............ông..........coũ=công
ũ...............ung.........cũ=cung
uân...........uôn.........muấn=muốn
uâng.........uông........huấng=huống
ưâng........ương........tưầng=tường


This is the way we used to say pure vietnamese words.
DAI_VIET
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:30 PM)
I don't think so. So you say "Việt" as "Diệt". How are you gonna say "Diệt" (the true meaning of Diệt). So u pronounce Việt and Diệt same ?? All Vietnamese in South I know say Việt as Việt. Because it is just the correct way.

LOL! Good one HiepNT!

supernovasp, what makes you think that Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu is biased? I doubt that you read the entire book, it's freaking long.

I read Viet Nam Su Luoc by Tran Trong Kim, the entire book, and that book is the best!
HiepNT
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 07:34 PM)
QUOTE (HiepNT @ May 6 2004, 07:30 PM)
I don't think so. So you say "Việt" as "Diệt". How are you gonna say "Diệt" (the true meaning of Diệt). So u pronounce Việt and Diệt same ??  All Vietnamese in South I know say Việt as Việt.  Because it is just the correct way.

LOL! Good one HiepNT!

Thank you icon_redface.gif icon_redface.gif icon_redface.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif embarassedlaugh.gif
supernovasp
Xin đề cập lại tên gọi của các bậc danh nhân thời huyền sử, như Hùng Vương, Lạc Tướng, Âu Cơ, Lạc Long Quân... Nếu là tên thì tại sao không phải là tên Nôm? Cái thời đó đâu có Hán-Việt, tại sao lại mang tên Hán? Tên nước đầu tiên của ta là "Xích Quỷ", tên này nghĩa là sao? Người Hán hay dùng các chữ man, di và quỷ để gọi các dân các nước chung quanh, ta cũng gọi ta là quỷ? Cái thời đó, sao không mấy ai có tên như Công Chúa Kiệu (củ kiệu)? Ta cũng có Đền Hùng, các cái, vậy ta có thể dùng ngôn ngữ học để giải thích ra sao? Nếu ta khai quật vùng đất Phong Châu thì sẽ tìm được những cổ vật gì chăng? Ta vẫn tự hào là "Con Rồng Cháu Tiên"; nếu ấy là một sáng phẩm của các cụ, thì ta cũng nên truy tìm cho rõ vậy.

Nói rằng tiếng Việt ta sở dĩ có thanh là do sự ảnh hưởng của tiếng Tàu. Tiếng Chàm (bằng chứng qua giọng Huế ngày nay), tiếng Khmer... và của các dân tộc thiểu số khác của ta, đều bị tiếng Tàu ảnh hưởng mới có thanh? Chúng ta dùng những bằng chứng cụ thể nào để đính chính việc này?

Tiếng Việt ta có khoảng 27,600 từ là vai mượn của tiếng Tàu. Tổng cộng tiếng Việt ta có bao nhiêu từ? Khoảng 40,000 không?

Và ba câu này, một học giả viết là của Không Tử, quý vị xét lại có phải chăng:
[blockquote]- “Ta không biết Tế sạ * là gì, nghe đâu là tên gọi ngày lễ giao mùa đầu năm của dân Man, họ nhảy múa, dựng nêu, đánh đu, uống rượu say mèm! chú ý: đọc theo âm TẾT

- Ta không biết trà là gì, nghe đâu là một thứ lá trong rừng mà bọn người Man nấu mà uống cho giải nhiệt

- Ta không biết lúa là gì, nghe đâu là một thứ cốc loại[sic]mà bọn người Man trồng trên những cánh đồng ngập nước gọi là ló* ta chỉ biết ăn kê và lõa mạch thôi!
______________________________________________________________
chú ý: ló* là tên lúc đầu của lúa, Tàu bắt chước gọi theo y hệt là ló , nhưng Hán Việt đọc là lạc! [lạc điền][/blockquote]
"much of the spiritual and imaginative part of their civilization, much of what the world now think of as typically “chinese”, was originated among the proto Thái people south of the Yang tse kiang, among the proto Tibetan people of the west, and, among the proto Mongolian people of their Northern region/ but it was less easy for the Chinese to acknowledge, or even to realize that they do borrow ideas and things made and life style of the foreigners, yes, in fact they did and at length."


More educational discussion here:
http://viethoc.com/phorum/read.php?f=9&i=1333&t=1328
DAI_VIET
That Vietnamese is too hard to understand, they use too many Vietnamese vocabulary.

But let's see, is DVSKTT trying to say that we copied Tau words too much?
sailador
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 07:44 PM)
That Vietnamese is too hard to understand, they use too many Vietnamese vocabulary.

But let's see, is DVSKTT trying to say that we copied Tau words too much?

it is kinda true though...60 percent of the words in vietnamese has its origin from chinese..example: thoi gian, xe, ddien thoi, cam on, minh tinh, and even the word khong which means 0 has a chinese origin..no matter how much of a vietnamese nationalist we are..we cant deny this fact
DAI_VIET
bawling.gif

Let me write a book and invent new vocabulary for our later generations, I'll be back.
tattra
Nam Kỳ in Saigon say Diệt. I've heard some Nam Kỳ in San Jose say Việt, maybe cho giống Nguyễn Ngọc Ngạn 1 chút .... hehehe




QUOTE
it is kinda true though...60 percent of the words in vietnamese has its origin from chinese..example: thoi gian, xe, ddien thoi, cam on, minh tinh, and even the word khong which means 0 has a chinese origin..no matter how much of a vietnamese nationalist we are..we cant deny this fact

I agree, Sailador.
tam_ca
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 04:13 PM)
For example:

Shrimp: tôm
How many of you say "tơm"? I say it "tôm"

Rice: cơm
I say it as "cơm" but some people say it "côm"

Viet: Việt
I say "Việt" as it is, still, people keep saying "diệt"

Go home: về
I say it as "về", people say it "dề" and they actually write it that way too!

And many many more...


Arrrgghh... its irritates me when people pronounce their Vietnamese so bad and wrong! Arrgghh...  madgo.gif

I think the opposite, people who say words with the sound "v" and some g=z, doesn't sound like they are saying VIETNAMESE, it sounds more like french, or how the western people would pronounce vietnamese. The people who pronounce it with v's are probably the people who were living in a place most likely more influenced by the french and adapted to the way they pronounce it. It irritates me when they say too many words with a v or z sound--madgo.gif, like vo~ is supposed to be pronounce as d=y yo~, and vu~ is supposed to be pronounce like d=y you~, but SOME words are supposed to be pronounced as v, but MOST are supposed to be pronounced as y, because the people who translated our language to alphabet letters were the french, so some things can't be exactly correct. I think they changed the way vietnamese people speak by the pronounciation of the letters. The way some people say yes(von) or whatever irritates me also, i mean come on what the heck is von!!, it was probably another word from the french, the correct way should be phai(yes), it was before anyways. If we were to sing a song with a lot of those v words, you'll see what im talking about, it'll sound like one of those french songs, if you sing songs with d words it will sound much more like vietnamese. Like sailador said, you have to admit that most of our words came from the CHINESE so they were probably supposed to be pronounce closely to the chinese. Luckily for me, all my friends speak it correctly, it sounds much better with the normal way of saying the words.
sailador
QUOTE (tam_ca @ May 6 2004, 11:11 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ May 6 2004, 04:13 PM)
For example:

Shrimp: tôm
How many of you say "tơm"? I say it "tôm"

Rice: cơm
I say it as "cơm" but some people say it "côm"

Viet: Việt
I say "Việt" as it is, still, people keep saying "diệt"

Go home: về
I say it as "về", people say it "dề" and they actually write it that way too!

And many many more...


Arrrgghh... its irritates me when people pronounce their Vietnamese so bad and wrong! Arrgghh...  madgo.gif

I think the opposite, people who say words with the sound "v" and some g=z, doesn't sound like they are saying VIETNAMESE, it sounds more like french, or how the western people would pronounce vietnamese. The people who pronounce it with v's are probably the people who were living in a place most likely more influenced by the french and adapted to the way they pronounce it. It irritates me when they say too many words with a v or z sound--madgo.gif, like vo~ is supposed to be pronounce as d=y yo~, and vu~ is supposed to be pronounce like d=y you~, but SOME words are supposed to be pronounced as v, but MOST are supposed to be pronounced as y, because the people who translated our language to alphabet letters were the french, so some things can't be exactly correct. I think they changed the way vietnamese people speak by the pronounciation of the letters. The way some people say yes(von) or whatever irritates me also, i mean come on what the heck is von!!, it was probably another word from the french, the correct way should be phai(yes), it was before anyways. If we were to sing a song with a lot of those v words, you'll see what im talking about, it'll sound like one of those french songs, if you sing songs with d words it will sound much more like vietnamese. Like sailador said, you have to admit that most of our words came from the CHINESE so they were probably supposed to be pronounce closely to the chinese. Luckily for me, all my friends speak it correctly, it sounds much better with the normal way of saying the words.

right on sista embarassedlaugh.gif
DAI_VIET
QUOTE (tam_ca @ May 6 2004, 11:11 PM)
I think the opposite, people who say words with the sound "v" and some g=z, doesn't sound like they are saying VIETNAMESE, it sounds more like french, or how the western people would pronounce vietnamese. The people who pronounce it with v's are probably the people who were living in a place most likely more influenced by the french and adapted to the way they pronounce it. It irritates me when they say too many words with a v or z sound--madgo.gif, like vo~ is supposed to be pronounce as d=y yo~, and vu~ is supposed to be pronounce like d=y you~, but SOME words are supposed to be pronounced as v, but MOST are supposed to be pronounced as y, because the people who translated our language to alphabet letters were the french, so some things can't be exactly correct. I think they changed the way vietnamese people speak by the pronounciation of the letters. The way some people say yes(von) or whatever irritates me also, i mean come on what the heck is von!!, it was probably another word from the french, the correct way should be phai(yes), it was before anyways. If we were to sing a song with a lot of those v words, you'll see what im talking about, it'll sound like one of those french songs, if you sing songs with d words it will sound much more like vietnamese. Like sailador said, you have to admit that most of our words came from the CHINESE so they were probably supposed to be pronounce closely to the chinese. Luckily for me, all my friends speak it correctly, it sounds much better with the normal way of saying the words.

Errhh... Hmmm... let's see.

If it's a "v" then pronounce it with a "v." Võ is pronouced with a "v" as theo đánh vần. If it's written with a "v," then why do you want it pronounced with a "d," or a "y?"

Võ theo đánh vần: o vờ o, vờ o vo ngã võ.

And if you want it to pronouced with a "d," when how would you đánh vần it to kindergardeners?

If it's pronouced with a "d" as dõ, then what's the point of learning đánh vần as most of us learned in kindergarden?

Personally, I think people that pronouce Vietnamese words like dề, dõ, diệt, dzũng (is not a word!), are giả giọng. They want to pronouce it and make it sound "cooler."

And "yes" is supposed to be "phải," and "vân." It just depends on where you were born and you use your native language. I use phải as yes.
DragonMP
QUOTE (tam_ca @ May 6 2004, 11:11 PM)
The way some people say yes(von) or whatever irritates me also, i mean come on what the heck is von!!, it was probably another word from the french, the correct way should be phai(yes), it was before anyways.

I think you mean 'vâng', as in 'dạ vâng' or 'vâng lời'.
tam_ca
No, actually its the way they grew up with, I grew up with relatives and family members who were never in a place influenced by the french, and that's what some of them tell me about the words. What we learn in kindergarten was the way of the words taught in the dictionary book made by the french. I don't exactly know, but i don't think it's the correct way they taught us to speak vietnamese, remember that french tried to exterminate chinese influence in vietnam, so our words can possibly be changed in some areas where french people dominated and took over, but the people i know who's family didn't have much contact with the french speak the way i speak. Most people that speak with v's that i know are usually christians or catholic people in vietnam. The people i know of that speak with d's etc are people who are buddhists, and or some christians and catholic people who live in an area with lots of buddhists that speak that way. It's probably just the place where people live in vn, some speak different than another. The point of dda'nh va~n is to help us with the tone pronounciation, not letter. People weren't trying to make it sound cooler, that's just the way they say it.

Think whatever you want, and i'll think mines, I probably can't change your mind about it, you have to find out yourself.

And about the yes thing, yea ... thats probably why.
DAI_VIET
QUOTE (tam_ca @ May 7 2004, 12:07 AM)
No, actually its the way they grew up with, I grew up with relatives and family members who were never in a place influenced by the french, and that's what some of them tell me about the words. What we learn in kindergarten was the way of the words taught in the dictionary book made by the french. I don't exactly know, but i don't think it's the correct way they taught us to speak vietnamese, remember that french tried to exterminate chinese influence in vietnam, so our words can possibly be changed in some areas where french people dominated and took over, but the people i know who's family didn't have much contact with the french speak the way i speak. Most people that speak with v's that i know are usually christians or catholic people in vietnam. The people i know of that speak with d's etc are people who are buddhists, and or some christians and catholic people who live in an area with lots of buddhists that speak that way. It's probably just the place where people live in vn, some speak different than another. The point of dda'nh va~n is to help us with the tone pronounciation, not letter. People weren't trying to make it sound cooler, that's just the way they say it.

Think whatever you want, and i'll think mines, I probably can't change your mind about it, you have to find out yourself.

Oh, so that's how you make up your logic huh? Erh... I have to disagree with ya on that.

My Mom is Buddist, and her entire family prounouce with a "v." I am Catholic, and I also prounouce with a "v." And we were never influenced by the French. Heck, the entire city prounouce with a "v."
tam_ca
haha, yea i guess you can disagree, but my family and friends are buddhist and some of my friends are christians, they live in a community here with lots of buddhists and there are a lot of them in schools here and they just adapt to how they speak, i guess it just depends on the place you grew up in, but i still think that the words that are prounounced like SOME v's and z's came from french influence.
tqt
The "fact" that 65% of Vietnamese words are chinese is only a myth. I really want to meet these Western linguists and challenge them to prove to me that 65% of our words are chinese origin instead of claiming such a thing to be a fact.
Emperor
QUOTE (tqt @ May 7 2004, 09:07 AM)
The "fact" that 65% of Vietnamese words are chinese is only a myth. I really want to meet these Western linguists and challenge them to prove to me that 65% of our words are chinese origin instead of claiming such a thing to be a fact.

Sorry, it's true.

Too bad for you.
DAI_VIET
QUOTE (supernovasp @ May 6 2004, 07:33 PM)
Trích từ hai quyển sách VPVN và VPVNVN:
Interesting information

Giọng Xưa...Bây Giờ (B)...Nam
blời............giời..............trời
mlớn..........nhớn............lớn
tlâu............trâu.............trâu

Thế Kỷ 17...Bây Giờ...Vị Dụ
b...............v............bua=vua
d...............nh..........dè dẹ=nhè nhẹ
bl..............gi/l/tr......blả ơn=giả ơn, blúc blắc=lúc lắc, blời=trời
ml, mnh.....l, nh........mlẽ=ẽ, mnhời=nhời
tl...............tr............ăn tlộm=ăn trộm, con blâu=con trâu
aõ.............ong.........saõ=song
ấc.............ốc............quấc=quốc
oũ.............ông..........coũ=công
ũ...............ung.........cũ=cung
uân...........uôn.........muấn=muốn
uâng.........uông........huấng=huống
ưâng........ương........tưầng=tường


This is the way we used to say pure vietnamese words.

I am so glad we're speaking modern Vietnamese, otherwise, it'd sound like... wierd.
sailador
QUOTE (tqt @ May 7 2004, 02:07 AM)
The "fact" that 65% of Vietnamese words are chinese is only a myth. I really want to meet these Western linguists and challenge them to prove to me that 65% of our words are chinese origin instead of claiming such a thing to be a fact.

no matter how hard i dont want to admit to that..but it is true...sad but true..but it is all good..those chinese words are vietnamized now..so we can just say they are vietnamese words beerchug.gif
Vi3T Ang3L
nothing wrong talking like that...it's just the way you talk...well and write too....but it sometimes confuse me when a person is typing in viet. and they spell it the wrong way making me think it's right...i was born here so it's kinda confusing..but my viet are good enough
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