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Jarhier
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/new...0na010000c.html

QUOTE
More than 30,000 people rallied in Japan's southern Okinawa island Sunday against plans to relocate a U.S. air base to another area on the island, demanding that the facility be moved outside the country, a news report said.

Organizers said an estimated 35,000 people participated in the two-hour rally in the city of Ginowan, site of the U.S. Marine Corps' Futenma Air Station, Kyodo News agency said.

"The city of Ginowan strongly demands that Futenma ... be shut down immediately and relocated outside of Japan," Ginowan Mayor Yoichi Iha was quoted by Kyodo as saying.

The air station is expected to be moved to the Okinawan city of Nago under a joint U.S.-Japan plan to realign American forces in Japan.

Sunday's rally was organized by opposition parties from the Okinawa Prefectural Assembly, labor unions and grassroots groups, Kyodo said.

Ginowan city officials were unavailable for comment Sunday.

The plan to move the base -- agreed to by Tokyo and Washington in October -- also calls for the transfer of 7,000 Marines from Okinawa over six years to the U.S. territory Guam and the shifting of some operations to other cities on Japan's main islands.

Okinawa hosts about half of the 50,000 U.S. troops stationed in Japan and residents have long protested crowding, noise and crime associated with the bases.

In late February, some 8,000 people in Kanoya, Kagoshima Prefecture, protested against the possible transfer from Okinawa to the city of a U.S. air tanker fleet.
rahul1000
I would like to hear the opinions of some Japanese hear about whether the U.S troops should stay or leave Japan. Or maybe you don't really want them there but they have to be there for protection? Or, have them leave and have the ability to create our own real military?
Reiko
If they didn't cause so much trouble then it wouldn't be a big deal. The US military personel on okinawa are a big source of crime and that's why the people want the base moved.
rahul1000
QUOTE (Reiko @ Mar 6 2006, 04:41 PM) *
If they didn't cause so much trouble then it wouldn't be a big deal. The US military personel on okinawa are a big source of crime and that's why the people want the base moved.


Yeah, I keep hearing that the servicemen there mostly cause trouble and noise for the local community. Are they really even needed in Japan to protect or what? What do you Japanese think, are the American soldiers necessary in your country, or should they leave? I personally think some should probably stay but they should reduce the number of soldiers there.

Why are American soldiers even in Japan in the first place, to protect it from China and/or North Korea? An excuse for them to check out Japanese culture, what is it?

Wonder how American's for instance would feel about having foreign bases in their country, I wouldn't like it at all.
Reiko
Since japan isn't allowed to have a military beyond a small defense force then yes it's necessary to have the americans for protection. I just wish thet would behave themselves better.
Suijen
What do you expect? A group or horny young men locked up in a base with nothing to do.
rahul1000
QUOTE (Reiko @ Mar 6 2006, 05:20 PM) *
Since japan isn't allowed to have a military beyond a small defense force then yes it's necessary to have the americans for protection. I just wish thet would behave themselves better.


Well, its the Americans that made it that way, I feel that they are partially bullying the Japanese. The U.S made it so that Japan could never again raise an army and try to go on a rampage like it did over 60 years ago. But that won't happen anymore, many nations now have nuclear weapons and China especially has a powerful army just eager to crush Japan into tiny bits if it even thought about attacking China again. I feel that Japan should be able to raise an army and have the Americans leave, the Americans should stop trying to be the protector of all that is good and just.
Suijen
^ Well, maintaining an army is expensive. Nothing like free bodyguard service.
rahul1000
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 6 2006, 05:31 PM) *
^ Well, maintaining an army is expensive. Nothing like free bodyguard service.


I suppose...still, it must be pretty humiliating for the Japanese to have another country protect them whereas 60 years ago, they were very much feared, a terrible force to behold and the reason why the Americans decided to nuke two of their cities rather than go through an all out invasion.
Jarhier
prohibiting(keep an eye on) or pestering maybe..word protect doesnt fit in this situation imo
Suijen
QUOTE (rahul1000 @ Mar 6 2006, 03:07 PM) *
I suppose...still, it must be pretty humiliating for the Japanese to have another country protect them whereas 60 years ago, they were very much feared, a terrible force to behold and the reason why the Americans decided to nuke two of their cities rather than go through an all out invasion.


Yeah, we make fun of them a lot for it too.
chilli21
even though you have thousands of people protesting against the US air base, everyone knows japan and america both needs each other now.
Ogumo
QUOTE (rahul1000 @ Mar 6 2006, 04:04 PM) *
Yeah, I keep hearing that the servicemen there mostly cause trouble and noise for the local community. Are they really even needed in Japan to protect or what? What do you Japanese think, are the American soldiers necessary in your country, or should they leave? I personally think some should probably stay but they should reduce the number of soldiers there.

Why are American soldiers even in Japan in the first place, to protect it from China and/or North Korea? An excuse for them to check out Japanese culture, what is it?

Wonder how American's for instance would feel about having foreign bases in their country, I wouldn't like it at all.




I feel that the U.S. government has worn out its own welcome. Not only in japan but in the entire region. The U.S. government's official stance is that they are in japan to for out protection and to maintain stability in the region. When you really stop and think about these comments you realize how outrageous they truly. Japan has both the financial and technological capabilities to build weapons and defend itself. It is merely matter of changing the anti war article. In my opinion the government needs to take the initiative and go above the heads of the domestic population and our neighbors. It would be the greatest action that our government could do in it's own interests.

The very presense of the U.S. military in asia does indeed maintain stability of the region. However it should not be this way. Outsiders especially those that are all the way on the otherside of the world should have such a strangle hold on the region. Especially when there are other countries in the immediate area that are more than capable to fill the gap that would be left by the U.S.

Of course I don't believe that the U.S. is there out of genorosity or goodwill toward anyone except itself. I feel that the U.S. is only here and other places in the world to maintain its dominance and supremacy over varying regions of the world. They are only here out of their own interests not anyone elses.
Reiko
There is one huge benefit to letting americans be the military for japan, japan doesn't have to spend huge amounts of money building and maintaining a military. Let the americans spend the money. embarassedlaugh.gif2
Suijen
^ You still spend way more for your military than anyone else.
HuJinTao
allowing the americans to stay also puts them under the nuclear umbrella since japan has no nuclear weapons.

i think if the americans leave, the japanese won't be at disadvantage. i think they're already the most powerful military in Asia right now.
Suijen
^ They're quite advanced, but they've stucked to mainly defensive crap. Considering the wealth of the country, I'm sure they can militarize quite quickly and relive their past adventures in Asia.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 9 2006, 12:05 PM) *
^ They're quite advanced, but they've stucked to mainly defensive crap. Considering the wealth of the country, I'm sure they can militarize quite quickly and relive their past adventures in Asia.


you still think they have the spirit to fight wars and die in large numbers? most japanese are middle class enjoying a comfortable living. why would they leave that? unless of course if they're bored as hell.

there are millions of chinese who are willing to die for their country, especially the poor cause they got nothing to lose
Reiko
I know I'm not into fighting. embarassedlaugh.gif2
Suijen
^ There is a growing nationalism in Japan. Anything could happen.

Back on topic, Japan should be able to decide its own military though. It is a soverign country and should be able to do whatever the fu-k it wants so as long as they don't d!ck with other countries. Build nukes for all I care.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 9 2006, 12:10 PM) *
^ There is a growing nationalism in Japan. Anything could happen.

Back on topic, Japan should be able to decide its own military though. It is a soverign country and should be able to do whatever the fu-k it wants so as long as they don't d!ck with other countries. Build nukes for all I care.


then forget about that dream of making japan into a tributary country to china again embarassedlaugh.gif2
Suijen
^ I'd rather just pw0n the island.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 9 2006, 12:41 PM) *
^ I'd rather just pw0n the island.


nah, it'd be a waste if japan ceased to exist. they're pretty unique.
Suijen
^ I don't really care.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 9 2006, 12:47 PM) *
^ I don't really care.


you gotta give them credit though. they've achieved a lot of stuff. it would pain me if china destroyed them.

its like Hitler. He hated the french and wanted to pwn them but he made sure Paris was saved cause he admired french culture.
Suijen
^ Well I don't.

Luckily for most people, I don't have any power in China, and the "evil" CCP call the shots. So far they've been surprisingly tame on the whole issue.
Ogumo
^ They are only tame because they know the world is watching them during these crucial years. We will see how they behave in the decades to come.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 9 2006, 12:51 PM) *
^ Well I don't.

Luckily for most people, I don't have any power in China, and the "evil" CCP call the shots. So far they've been surprisingly tame on the whole issue.


they're smart. they know war of any kind is bad for china.

despite what the japanese did, they did give china a good kick in the arse and a wake-up call.
Suijen
^ It was the Europeans who forced China to go into the nationalist movement. The Japanese helped the CCP get into power, because they were brutal as hell and chased after the KMT. The CCP took advantage of this third party distraction to gain power, gain the admiration of the people, and then take care of both the KMT and the Japanese.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Ogumo @ Mar 9 2006, 12:52 PM) *
^ They are only tame because they know the world is watching them during these crucial years. We will see how they behave in the decades to come.


what evidence do you have to back up that china is naturally a benevolent country intent on dominating others?

QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 9 2006, 12:55 PM) *
^ It was the Europeans who forced China to go into the nationalist movement. The Japanese helped the CCP get into power, because they were brutal as hell and chased after the KMT. The CCP took advantage of this third party distraction to gain power, gain the admiration of the people, and then take care of both the KMT and the Japanese.


yah i suppose. but what im saying is, if japan hadn't invaded, china may not have had the motivaton or the incentive to get out of their situation.
Suijen
^ They already started a nationalist movement. The only thing the Japanese did was weaken the hell out of China and mess it up even more. It would have been better if they stayed in their little island.
Reiko
China will be the dominant economic power in the world soon. They won't need armies to dominate anybody.
Ogumo
As Ive stated before HuJinTao. Time will show china's true colors.
Suijen
^ China's army can't move far anyways. For the first 30 so years, it was developed as primarily a defensive army that followed Mao Zedong military thought.

Times have changed, and China's developing capabilities to reach outside it's own borders. I don't know how far China plans to go though.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Ogumo @ Mar 9 2006, 01:04 PM) *
As Ive stated before HuJinTao. Time will show china's true colors.


are you japanese?
Suijen
Yeah, Ogumo is Japanese.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 9 2006, 01:15 PM) *
Yeah, Ogumo is Japanese.


so he thinks china is evil icon_neutral.gif
Suijen
^ Eh, probably.
Musashino
I don't think people are getting the point.

China doesn't need to start a war to start up its own hegemony. It only needs to do it U.S. style, meaning setting up "alliances" where it can strong-arm countries to signing up treaties and agreements where China has the upper hand.

In this day and age, this kind of thing isn't really regarded as 'evil' because that's what businesses do these days.

The U.S.'s subtle with how they go about with their politics and world affairs. That's exactly what China will do. Maybe not as complex as the Americans, but certainly not to a point where they'll launch missiles and flaunt their power as show and tell.

Mark my words. China's "free" trade agreement with the SEA was made to help pave way for Chinese economic dominance in that region. Other "free" trade agreements that follow will do exactly the same.

QUOTE (HuJinTao @ Mar 9 2006, 04:21 PM) *
so he thinks china is evil icon_neutral.gif


Well, he's just 1 guy compared to the 754392763458762348650924376592743827304957868716234 Chinese who wants Japan nuked to ashes biggrin.gif
PervertBurger
Okinawa is such a unique place. I hope Americans do leave someday.
It is the most relaxing place in Japan biggrin.gif

If the Chinese ever take Japan or pwn it, don't destroy Okinawa..besides..Okinawa and China are much closer historically than Okinawa and Japan.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Musashino @ Mar 9 2006, 01:29 PM) *
I don't think people are getting the point.

China doesn't need to start a war to start up its own hegemony. It only needs to do it U.S. style, meaning setting up "alliances" where it can strong-arm countries to signing up treaties and agreements where China has the upper hand.

In this day and age, this kind of thing isn't really regarded as 'evil' because that's what businesses do these days.

The U.S.'s subtle with how they go about with their politics and world affairs. That's exactly what China will do. Maybe not as complex as the Americans, but certainly not to a point where they'll launch missiles and flaunt their power as show and tell.

Mark my words. China's "free" trade agreement with the SEA was made to help pave way for Chinese economic dominance in that region. Other "free" trade agreements that follow will do exactly the same.
Well, he's just 1 guy compared to the 754392763458762348650924376592743827304957868716234 Chinese who wants Japan nuked to ashes biggrin.gif


are you chinese or japanese?
Musashino
QUOTE (HuJinTao @ Mar 9 2006, 04:31 PM) *
are you chinese or japanese?


100% Canto-Australian biggthumpup.gif
Suijen
He's half-japanese.
HuJinTao
QUOTE (Musashino @ Mar 9 2006, 01:34 PM) *
100% Canto-Australian biggthumpup.gif


oh i see. ur alias confused me
Musashino
QUOTE (HuJinTao @ Mar 9 2006, 04:35 PM) *
oh i see. ur alias confused me


biggthumpup.gif

I'm a fan of anime. 'Musashino' is the name of a uni that's been referred to in an anime-who's-name-I-don't-remember.
Mid-Night_Sun
how did this get into talking about China...

US army should leave, if they wont, kick them out.

say what you will about the "evil" CCP, i guarantee you they will NEVER allow american (or any other countries) soldiers to go into China....and harass the locals...
Suijen
It's up to the Japanese.

Frankly, no country really should be able to tell Japan to limit it's military. It's a soverign country after all.
Musashino
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 9 2006, 04:34 PM) *
He's half-japanese.


rotflmao.gif

Dream on dude.
Suijen
^ I must have been thinking someone else than.
chilli21
QUOTE (Suijen @ Mar 10 2006, 08:50 AM) *
It's up to the Japanese.

Frankly, no country really should be able to tell Japan to limit it's military. It's a soverign country after all.


but in reality, we know this can never happen coz the country they're telling off is the US.
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