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tangawizi
I've just seen a cookbook featuring Cape Malay cuisine by the community of Cape Malays still existing in South Africa. Did a search on the wiki and here's what they have to say :

QUOTE
Cape Malays

The Cape Malay community is an ethnic group or community in South Africa, taking its name from what is now known as the Western Cape of South Africa and the Malay people who started this community in South Africa. The community's earliest members were slaves brought by the Dutch East India Company, followed shortly thereafter by political dissidents and Muslim religious leaders who opposed the Dutch presence in what is now Indonesia. Starting in 1654, these resistors were imprisoned or exiled in South Africa by the Dutch East India Company, which founded and used what is now Cape Town as a resupply station for ships traveling between Europe and Asia. They are the group that first introduced Islam to South Africa.

Culture

The founders of this community were the first to bring Islam to South Africa. The community's culture and traditions have also left an impact that is felt to this day. Adaptations of traditional foods such as bredie, bobotie, sosaties and koeksisters are staples in many South African homes. The Muslim community in Cape Town remains large and vibrant to this day, now much expanded beyond those exiles who started the first mosques in South Africa.

People in the Cape Malay community generally speak Afrikaans, English or local dialects of the two. The Malay languages and other languages that their ancestors brought are no longer spoken, though various Malay words and phrases are still employed in daily usage.

Population and location

It is estimated that there are about 166,000 people in Cape Town who could be described as Cape Malay, and about 10,000 in Johannesburg. The picturesque Malay Quarter of Cape Town is found on Signal Hill, and is called the Bo-Kaap. Many Cape Malay people also lived in District Six before it was demolished; after its demolition, most were forced to move to so-called Coloured townships on the Cape Flats.


The cookery book emphasizes a number of recipes using spices, chillies, and curries. Hmmmm....... I wonder if this community still has links with the Malayan world in SE Asia? Do they for instance watch soap operas and listen to pop from Indonesia or Malaysia?
purnomor
Cape Malays are all from Indonesia, hence this thread should be in Indonesian chat.

BTW, yes the premier of Western Cape Province, a Cape Malay, visited Indonesia a few times. Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla, who is Buginese (same ethnicity as the original Cape Malay) paid a visit to Cape Town last year, signing some trade deals with the province.
tangawizi
Oh well, I suppose you could be right. Why were the Malay Indonesians transported to Africa as slaves? I didn't think the Europeans extended slavery as far as to include asians.
purnomor
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Jan 26 2006, 07:11 AM)
Oh well, I suppose you could be right.  Why were the Malay Indonesians transported to Africa as slaves?  I didn't think the Europeans extended slavery as far as to include asians.
*


They were political exiles, banished to Africa from Indonesia for resisting Dutch rule (Cape Town was then a Dutch colony). The most famous political exile were Syekh Yusuf, a Buginese Islamic cleric who was banished to South Africa for leading an anti-Dutch rebellion in Banten, western Java.
tangawizi
It seems alot of their ancestors came from Bali as well. They are now numbering some 160,000 cape Malays living in Cape Town.

QUOTE
One of their most spectacular custom of the Cape Malay is the performance of the Chalifah which is an exhibition of skillful swordplay and symbolic of the power of faith. Many of the imams disapprove of it. With a background of monotonous chanting and the rhythmical beating of drums, the performers go into a semi-hypnotized state. They stab the flesh with sharp instruments, wounding themselves without flinching. The name Chalifah is really the name for the leader who blesses the swords, directs the performance, and prays while it is being carried out.
http://www.encounter.co.za/article/52.html

This sword ritual seems to have a certain resemblance to the Balinese trance ceremonies when they try to stab without flinching.
rasibiduk
Seeing as a lot of the exiles came also from Banten, I wouldn't be surprise they are performing the unique art of 'Debus' from Banten.

From RRI Banten website (not the best translation however) & pics from Kompas :

Banten-RRI-Online,
It is true that each region in Indonesia has its own characteristic that is interesting to complete a tourist enchantment. For example, Debus is a famous traditional art performance in Banten which makes this youngest province in Java interesting

The art performance is well known across the world. Debus has not only a unity with the art of self defense but also an attractive complexity. Debus has always been attractive and created tensity in its audience nerves. Why? Because in its performance, machete, knives, and many other parts of the players’ body. However, the players always remain save. All the scratches in their body are cured only in a blink of eyes by the sweap of hand of their master. In the peek of the performance, the game of sharp long iron is generally presented. In one of the point the iron, a round wood which diameter is around 20-30 Cm is installed(Trans by Lydia Sari UNJ)



Protoculture
QUOTE (purnomor @ Jan 26 2006, 06:56 AM)
Cape Malays are all from Indonesia, hence this thread should be in Indonesian chat.

BTW, yes the premier of Western Cape Province, a Cape Malay, visited Indonesia a few times. Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla, who is Buginese (same ethnicity as the original Cape Malay) paid a visit to Cape Town last year, signing some trade deals with the province.
*


Hey, purnomor, create new thread regarding this topic on your own there.

You know what, Malaysian Malays have good relationship with Cape Malays, sending visitors or even delegations.

Every year, the Cape malays send their delegation to UMNO General Assembly, uniting in Malay identity.

We rejoiced in a manner where the Cape Malays & Malaysian Malays considered as long-lost cousins.
purnomor
QUOTE (Protoculture @ Jan 26 2006, 09:59 PM)
Hey, purnomor, create new thread regarding this topic on your own there.

You know what, Malaysian Malays have good relationship with Cape Malays, sending visitors or even delegations.

Every year, the Cape malays send their delegation to UMNO General Assembly, uniting in Malay identity.

We rejoiced in a manner where the Cape Malays & Malaysian Malays considered as long-lost cousins.
*


We already have a thread abt this subject on the Indonesian Serious Talk

Too bad, all Cape Malays came from Indonesia. Additionally, they are not ethnic-Malays, but they are Buginese, Balinese, and Javanese, plus most of them already intermixed with Indian and Arab latecomers. So, it is impossible for them to be "cousins" of Malaysian Malays. Cape Malays send delegation to Indonesia's "Buginese World Meeting" held each two years in Makassar.

QUOTE
The Cape Malay

"Malay" refers to that section of the Muslim community in the Peninsula whose ancestors were sent there during the 17th and 18th centuries. They came mainly from Java and the Indonesian islands (especially Bali). The first group arrived in 1667 with other groups following later. In the Cape however, they mingled with other races, among them the indigenous peoples of South Africa, as well as Arabs, Indians, Chinese and Whites. 

...

A feast called Lebaran follows this. Men wear their newest clothes and bear gifts to the priest and to the poor. The children are dressed up and receive presents from their friends and neighbors.

http://www.encounter.co.za/article/52.html
Protoculture
QUOTE (purnomor @ Jan 26 2006, 10:26 PM)
We already have a thread abt this subject on the Indonesian Serious Talk

Too bad, all Cape Malays came from Indonesia. Additionally, they are not ethnic-Malays, but they are Buginese, Balinese, and Javanese, plus most of them already intermixed with Indian and Arab latecomers. So, it is impossible for them to be "cousins" of Malaysian Malays. Cape Malays send delegation to Indonesia's "Buginese World Meeting" held each two years in Makassar.
*


They can be .... because through history, Selangor Sultanate is of Bugisnese ancestry (and still), Johore Sultanate are of Bugisnese stock (from previous Johore Riau Sultanate era), large numbers of Bugisnese settlers in Johore, Selangor, Malacca & Sabah.

In the end, it all matters because we're 'serumpun'.
malaccan
QUOTE (Protoculture @ Jan 27 2006, 07:55 AM)
In the end, it all matters because we're 'serumpun'.
*

Ditto! Cape Malays themselves feel afffinity for both Malaysians and Indonesians.
Cape Malays have been sending their delegates to the Malay world meet that happens every so often in Malaysia. And any newspaper articles about South Africa will always mention the close ties Malaysian has with South Africa as Commonwealth nations, and the Cape Malay settlement there. You know how Malays in Malaysia have come to accept all members of the Malay race, not just Malay ethnicity as being the same. Bugis, Minang, Jawa, in the eyes of the government we're all Malay. And myself for example, although I have ancestors from my dad's side who was from Minangkabau, I see myself first as part of the bigger Malay race, as many other Malays do. Well, actually I see myself as a Malaysian first but that's another story.
tangawizi
Purnomor, I think when the Cape Malay ancestors were first being taken as slaves from Indonesia, the Dutch also transported some muslim folk from India and Mauritius to their South African colony.

And thats how the Cape Malay community was formed. It's not a community purely of Indonesian origin.

And the growing ties with Malaysia is probably a recent economic endeavour by the Cape Malay community to get onto the global economy.

I actually wonder if the Malaysian government is giving any guidance on the affirmative action programme in the Mbeki government? Perhaps the Cape Malay community have some influence in the government on this?
tangawizi
Purnomor, I did a search in Indonesian Serious Talk and there was nothing that came up specifically about the Cape Malays. Could you direct me to the thread in question please? Thanks alot!!!
purnomor
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Jan 27 2006, 06:32 AM)
Purnomor, I did a search in Indonesian Serious Talk and there was nothing that came up specifically about the Cape Malays. Could you direct me to the thread in question please?  Thanks alot!!!
*


Click here, the title is "Indonesia-South Africa Historical Link"..

It's OK if Malaysians say they have business deals with the Cape Malays, but claiming Cape Malays to be from Malaysia is outrageously unacceptable. What would the French said if suddenly Australia claims to have invented the champagne?

At the end of apartheid, some Cape Malays visited Malaysia to re-connect with their heritage. They asked the local Malaysians, "where is the city of Macassar? I want to visit it since that's where my ancestors come from and where our great leader Syekh Yusuf was buried." The Malaysian replied, "Oh, Macassar is in Indonesia".

That's the end of the role of Malaysia as the place for Cape Malays to rediscover their heritage. Since then, thousands of Cape Malays have visited Makassar in South Celebes province to visit the venerable tomb of the legendary progenitor of their community, Syekh Yusuf (Indonesian national hero). Cape Malays are not from Malaysia. Deal with it.
tangawizi
Sorry to be pedantic. Perhaps this could be cleared up if they juz call themselves something like Cape Makassarese. The fact is they call themselves Cape Malays which is a reflection of the political era when they were taken as to the Cape. In those days, the Indonesians and Malaysians were collectively known as the Malays, is that a correct assumption?
tangawizi
BTW, that thread was hilarious! There's some serious fuedal mindsets displayed there... :P
Protoculture
QUOTE (purnomor @ Jan 27 2006, 09:22 AM)
That's the end of the role of Malaysia as the place for Cape Malays to rediscover their heritage. Since then, thousands of Cape Malays have visited Makassar in South Celebes province to visit the venerable tomb of the legendary progenitor of their community, Syekh Yusuf (Indonesian national hero). Cape Malays are not from Malaysia. Deal with it.
*


If you read the previous posts earlier in this thread, never did we Msians indicated that Cape Malays are from MY.

The purpose of the thread is mainly touching of the Cape Malays & their culture, which is very similar to those in Malay Archipelago.

So, their roots are from Indonesia .... like Indo-Dutch in Holland. But, that's where it ends.

Deal with it.
purnomor
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Jan 31 2006, 08:22 AM)
Sorry to be pedantic.  Perhaps this could be cleared up if they juz call themselves something like Cape Makassarese. The fact is they call themselves Cape Malays which is a reflection of the political era when they were taken as to the Cape.  In those days, the Indonesians and Malaysians were collectively known as the Malays, is that a correct assumption?
*


Not really, the original Cape Malays were political exiles were of Javanese, Balinese, Makassarese, Buginese, and Balinese origins, each with their own language and culture. So, to communicate with each other, they uses the lingua franca of the archipelago, the Malay language (which originated from Sumatera Island of Indonesia). Hence, they were called "Cape Malays".

QUOTE (Protoculture @ Feb 1 2006, 07:45 PM)
So, their roots are from Indonesia .... like Indo-Dutch in Holland. But, that's where it ends.

Deal with it.
*


LOL, I think many Cape Malays and Indo-Dutch people would beg to disagree..

Just ask the many Indo-Dutch forummers in Indo chat.
tangawizi
Hey guys, I dug this table up from this south african website on this book about the history of muslims in the Cape, interestinigly, it shows that between 1658 to 1700, 0.3% of the captives shipped by the Dutch to the Cape were from Malaysia :


http://www.sahistory.org.za/pages/sources/...slims/1700s.htm
Iron Malayan
^^ All I see in that link are cheap stories with nothing to back them up
If you ask some deluded Dutch, they'll claim all those Indonesian exiles are slaves and all Bengali slaves are Malays.
Hmm, well, I never said the Dutch are clever.

Some people think they can change history by printing fairy tales in their national history books and travel guides
and they may have fooled some ppl but they sure as hell can't fool me.

I have already exposed who the slave race really are in this Indonesian thread here. Enjoy.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...ndpost&p=742735

I'd like to add that the pattern of Indonesian migrations to South Africa is similar to their migrations to Dutch ruled Ceylon.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~lkawgw/malaychrono.html

1640 The storming of Galle by Admiral Coster and Malay troops. Ref: E.Reimers Govt. Archivist- Jubilee book of the Colombo Malay Cricket Club
1657 Malays under Captain Raja Talella accompanied Rycklof Van Goers and took part in the capture of Mannar and Jaffna. Ref: (i) Ibid (ii) E.Reimers Govt archivist -p: 158 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1706 Susuna Mankurat Mas- Ex King of Java landed in Ceylon Ref: Page 160 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1708 Javanese Prince Pangeran Adipathi Amang Kurat 111, with family and retinue was banished to Ceylon. Ref: De Graf (1949 pp 238-241) for this event in Javanese History
1722-1723 Group of 44 Javanese including Princes and Chief’s sent to Ceylon. Ref: Article by CH Mantara- p: 166 of Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket Club.
1723 Chief Minister Danuraja was banished to Ceylon. Ref : Page 160 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1728 Arya Mankunegara, a brother of king Pakubuwana banished to Ceylon by the Dutch. Ref: Dr Husseinmiya’s -Paper presented at the Naleemiah Institute of Islamic studies Beruwela in 1984- p: 10
1737 Death of Susuna Mankurat Mas in Colombo, and his family sent back to Java. Ref : Page 160 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1743 A Javanese Noble, Radini Adipati Nata kusuma was banished to Ceylon by the Dutch. Ref: Dr Husseinmiya’s Lost Cousins Page 45 (some historians gives this date as 1738)
1745 Susuna Kuning - King of Java surrenders himself to Dutch and is banished to Ceylon. Ref : Page 160 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1761 More troops sent to reinforce Malay troops in Ceylon.
1763 Formation of Malay company consisting of deportees and 31 slaves. Ref: Dutch Political comment of 1786
1765 Arrival of Malay battalion from Batavia led by Captain Baba Lye with the intention of capturing the Kandyan capital. Ref: Article “ History of Malay “ by F E Gooneratne p: 160 in Malay Jubilee book.
1767 Batara Gowa Amas Madina 11. the former King of Gowa was exiled to Ceylon by the Dutch. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya Lost Cousins p: 44
1783 Javanese Pandan Balie donates land in Wekanda, Colombo to build a Malay Mosque. The Mosque was built in 1786. Ref: CH Mantara, Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket Club (p: 167)
1795 The death of the King of Goa after 30yrs of life in exile in Ceylon. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya’s Lost Cousins (p: 44).
1798-1811 The appointment of a Malay Committee by Frederick North, the first British Governor of Ceylon to inquire into the grievances of the Indonesian Princes and Noblemen.
1803 Capt. Nouredeen, Commander of Malays, executed by the Kandyan King for refusal to sever his allegiance to the British, and enter the Kandyan King’s service. Ref: p: 163 of Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket Club
1813 Arrival of 413 men from Surabaya to join the Ceylon Malay Regiment during the governorship of Robert Brownrigg. Ref: Dr. Hussainmiya’s article “Exiles No Longer” in the publication Hemisphere
1816 Arrival of 228 of Javanese soldiers and thier families to Ceylon from Semmreng and Gresik in Java. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya’s Lost cousins (p: 61)
1834-1841 Migration of Malay’s to Ceylon. Total of 332 Malay’s migrated to Ceylon. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya’s Lost Cousins (p: 62).
1840 Setting up recruiting depots in Penang and later in Singapore for Malays from the Malay Peninsula for Permanent settlement in Ceylon. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya’s Lost Cousins (p: 12)
1869 Publishing of Alamat Lankapuri, a fortnightly Malay language paper by Baba Ounus Saldin in Colombo. Newspaper published in the Jawi Script. Ref: Dr. Hussainmiya’s article “Exiles No Longer” in the publication- Hemisphere
1872 Formation of Colombo Malay Cricket club. The first ever Malay sports club in Ceylon. Ref: Durham Saldin’s paper presented at World Malay Symposium of 1985, titled “Malay Organisations and Social Movements in Sri Lanka”
1873 The disbandment of the Ceylon Rifle regiment of Malays. Ref: CH Mantara’s article-Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1922 Formation of all Ceylon Malay Association. The patron being his Highness the Sultan of Johore. The first President being Mr. MK Saldin. Ref: Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket Book of 1924
1924 Election of first Malay, Dr TB Jayah to the legislative council.

As you can see, there were no such thing as Malay slaves. Only soldiers, exiles and their retinue.

BTW in a television documentary "Jejak Rasul" there was a South African Malay in Port Elizabeth speaking Malay and said his family moved from Indonesia to South Africa during the war. I assume he means the 2nd world war.
daoLearner
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Jan 27 2006, 10:07 AM) *
I actually wonder if the Malaysian government is giving any guidance on the affirmative action programme in the Mbeki government? Perhaps the Cape Malay community have some influence in the government on this?


Cape Malay/Coloured/Indian/East Asian/White don't benifit from this programme.

Mbekis political party (ANC - 80 seats) is not commonly voted for by non-blacks. Cape Malays according to recent polls in Cape Town voted for the ID (Independent Democrats - 21 seats) or DA (Democratic Allience - 90 seats). These partys dont support Affirmative action.

IMO i think it is a racist programme where people are seperated by race NOT by previously disadvantaged people as i was meant to be... sure.gif
tangawizi
Welcome to this forum, daolearner. You are the third person i know living in africa on this forum.

Can you tell us what are Mbeki's economic policies like and how it is viewed by the various minorities?

Malaysia's New Economic Policy (NEP) is widely viewed as a successful programme to augment the economic status of the majority Malays. I would urge you not to look at it superficially on idealogy.

My own country Singapore pulled out of the Malayan Federation due in part I guess to the disagreement of the thinking behind the NEP. But with hindsight, there are several thinkers who feel the NEP, however controversial, was a pragmatic social economic tool that delivered results.

It has raised the economic status of the majority Malays, while at the same time, the minorities have thrived equally in the economic equation.

Economics in Malaysia is not a zero sum game as some may have feared.
daoLearner
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Mar 13 2006, 10:22 AM) *
Can you tell us what are Mbeki's economic policies like and how it is viewed by the various minorities?


Mbeki's political party (ANC) is a kind of 'social-democracy' where his party says it will give the people free housing, basic services and education.

Affirmative action in South Africa doesnt make all people equal but rather make the black people (exculding Zulus as the dont commonly support ANC, rather IFP party(non-AF)) have more oppertunities that others. Its been 10 years since apartied. They cant use the excuse anymore.

The goverment is corrupt as in the news i see everyday..

eg. Vice-president rape trial and arms deal corruption (wasted money like 2,6 billion rands)
Oil gate scandel
Power cuts - cape town
Strikes

Excuse my spelling... icon_redface.gif

South Africas government is a joke! Maybe thats why I dont believe in goverment, rather a anarchist society governed by there true natures. icon_neutral.gif

As for the minories they loose out. They can try to get seats in government and have a say, but it is unlikly anyone will listen to them.

This is a third world country icon_sad.gif

Well thats all i have to say..
tangawizi
May I know if you are a cape malay, black or colored or of boer descent? Have you thought of emigrating from SA? There are quite a number of SA and Zimbabwean farmers and young professionals who are trying to eke out a living here. After a while, they realise they had it so good in the past. And they regret that the past isn't coming back, unless they return home to make a difference to their country in the new political order.

I thought an anarchist society is already found on the streets of Pretoria and Joburg, at nights!!! hehehe.. juz kiddin' embarassedlaugh.gif

I guess as a fervent taoist, you must hark back to the days of an agrarian community being led by a shaman witch doctor or something of that scene, don't you? embarassedlaugh.gif

I think SA is holding the forte well in so far as it has clung onto a rational social economic progress instead of a Robert Mugabe style of governance. And the SA corporations have become like an engine of growth for Africa with their numerous high tech investments and services. Much like the Japanese who was the engine of growth for most Asian economies. I go to several local malls and cinemas operated by SA corporations. They beat all of the local commercial centers down pat.

The affirmative action programme is not meant to be equal for every tom, d!ck and harry. Its meant to bring 'equity' to the majority who have been disadvantaged for centuries. I don't think 10 years is enough time for this 'equity' to be achieved and sustained. It should take another 10 years or so..
Iron Malayan
What about you tangawizi ?

What ethnic group are you from ?
juwanFromTaiwan
These people are the Real Malays.. Iron Malayan would detest to such accurate depictions embarassedlaugh.gif2



tangawizi
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Mar 13 2006, 06:48 PM) *
These people are the Real Malays.. Iron Malayan would detest to such accurate depictions embarassedlaugh.gif2


Why would IM detest such depictions of Malays? Isn't he Malay too?
purnomor
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Mar 5 2006, 01:05 PM) *
^^ All I see in that link are cheap stories with nothing to back them up
If you ask some deluded Dutch, they'll claim all those Indonesian exiles are slaves and all Bengali slaves are Malays.
Hmm, well, I never said the Dutch are clever.

Some people think they can change history by printing fairy tales in their national history books and travel guides
and they may have fooled some ppl but they sure as hell can't fool me.

I have already exposed who the slave race really are in this Indonesian thread here. Enjoy.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...ndpost&p=742735

I'd like to add that the pattern of Indonesian migrations to South Africa is similar to their migrations to Dutch ruled Ceylon.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~lkawgw/malaychrono.html

1640 The storming of Galle by Admiral Coster and Malay troops. Ref: E.Reimers Govt. Archivist- Jubilee book of the Colombo Malay Cricket Club
1657 Malays under Captain Raja Talella accompanied Rycklof Van Goers and took part in the capture of Mannar and Jaffna. Ref: (i) Ibid (ii) E.Reimers Govt archivist -p: 158 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1706 Susuna Mankurat Mas- Ex King of Java landed in Ceylon Ref: Page 160 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1708 Javanese Prince Pangeran Adipathi Amang Kurat 111, with family and retinue was banished to Ceylon. Ref: De Graf (1949 pp 238-241) for this event in Javanese History
1722-1723 Group of 44 Javanese including Princes and Chief’s sent to Ceylon. Ref: Article by CH Mantara- p: 166 of Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket Club.
1723 Chief Minister Danuraja was banished to Ceylon. Ref : Page 160 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1728 Arya Mankunegara, a brother of king Pakubuwana banished to Ceylon by the Dutch. Ref: Dr Husseinmiya’s -Paper presented at the Naleemiah Institute of Islamic studies Beruwela in 1984- p: 10
1737 Death of Susuna Mankurat Mas in Colombo, and his family sent back to Java. Ref : Page 160 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1743 A Javanese Noble, Radini Adipati Nata kusuma was banished to Ceylon by the Dutch. Ref: Dr Husseinmiya’s Lost Cousins Page 45 (some historians gives this date as 1738)
1745 Susuna Kuning - King of Java surrenders himself to Dutch and is banished to Ceylon. Ref : Page 160 of Jubilee book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1761 More troops sent to reinforce Malay troops in Ceylon.
1763 Formation of Malay company consisting of deportees and 31 slaves. Ref: Dutch Political comment of 1786
1765 Arrival of Malay battalion from Batavia led by Captain Baba Lye with the intention of capturing the Kandyan capital. Ref: Article “ History of Malay “ by F E Gooneratne p: 160 in Malay Jubilee book.
1767 Batara Gowa Amas Madina 11. the former King of Gowa was exiled to Ceylon by the Dutch. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya Lost Cousins p: 44
1783 Javanese Pandan Balie donates land in Wekanda, Colombo to build a Malay Mosque. The Mosque was built in 1786. Ref: CH Mantara, Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket Club (p: 167)
1795 The death of the King of Goa after 30yrs of life in exile in Ceylon. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya’s Lost Cousins (p: 44).
1798-1811 The appointment of a Malay Committee by Frederick North, the first British Governor of Ceylon to inquire into the grievances of the Indonesian Princes and Noblemen.
1803 Capt. Nouredeen, Commander of Malays, executed by the Kandyan King for refusal to sever his allegiance to the British, and enter the Kandyan King’s service. Ref: p: 163 of Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket Club
1813 Arrival of 413 men from Surabaya to join the Ceylon Malay Regiment during the governorship of Robert Brownrigg. Ref: Dr. Hussainmiya’s article “Exiles No Longer” in the publication Hemisphere
1816 Arrival of 228 of Javanese soldiers and thier families to Ceylon from Semmreng and Gresik in Java. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya’s Lost cousins (p: 61)
1834-1841 Migration of Malay’s to Ceylon. Total of 332 Malay’s migrated to Ceylon. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya’s Lost Cousins (p: 62).
1840 Setting up recruiting depots in Penang and later in Singapore for Malays from the Malay Peninsula for Permanent settlement in Ceylon. Ref: Dr Hussainmiya’s Lost Cousins (p: 12)
1869 Publishing of Alamat Lankapuri, a fortnightly Malay language paper by Baba Ounus Saldin in Colombo. Newspaper published in the Jawi Script. Ref: Dr. Hussainmiya’s article “Exiles No Longer” in the publication- Hemisphere
1872 Formation of Colombo Malay Cricket club. The first ever Malay sports club in Ceylon. Ref: Durham Saldin’s paper presented at World Malay Symposium of 1985, titled “Malay Organisations and Social Movements in Sri Lanka”
1873 The disbandment of the Ceylon Rifle regiment of Malays. Ref: CH Mantara’s article-Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket club
1922 Formation of all Ceylon Malay Association. The patron being his Highness the Sultan of Johore. The first President being Mr. MK Saldin. Ref: Jubilee Book of Colombo Malay Cricket Book of 1924
1924 Election of first Malay, Dr TB Jayah to the legislative council.

As you can see, there were no such thing as Malay slaves. Only soldiers, exiles and their retinue.

BTW in a television documentary "Jejak Rasul" there was a South African Malay in Port Elizabeth speaking Malay and said his family moved from Indonesia to South Africa during the war. I assume he means the 2nd world war.


Interesting, most of these political exiles to Ceylon were Javanese nobility, seems like Malays did not give Dutch any trouble so they never bother exiling Malays.
juwanFromTaiwan
He thinks Malays are Caucasoid Europeans.. Anything dark, with slanted eyes, or wider, flat nose is not a Malay according to Iron Malayan embarassedlaugh.gif2...
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Mar 13 2006, 11:41 AM) *
Why would IM detest such depictions of Malays? Isn't he Malay too?
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Mar 13 2006, 01:12 PM) *
He thinks Malays are Caucasoid Europeans.. Anything dark, with slanted eyes, or wider, flat nose is not a Malay according to Iron Malayan embarassedlaugh.gif2...
Nope. Real Malays are caucasoid Southeast Asians and some can turn dark if constantly exposed to the sun.
juwanFromTaiwan
@IronMalayan.. Vato these are your people.. Chale... embarassedlaugh.gif2
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Mar 13 2006, 10:48 AM) *
These people are the Real Malays.. Iron Malayan would detest to such accurate depictions embarassedlaugh.gif2



Iron Malayan
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Mar 13 2006, 01:21 PM) *
@IronMalayan.. Vato these are your people.. Chale... embarassedlaugh.gif2
Sorry dude. These Javanese aborigines have been proven to be genetically closer to your chinese ppl.
juwanFromTaiwan
Orale.. then Chinese have the right to their own lands.. maybe they'll just take it back!!! embarassedlaugh.gif2
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Mar 13 2006, 01:26 PM) *
Sorry dude. These Javanese aborigines have been proven to be genetically closer to your chinese ppl.
purnomor
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Mar 13 2006, 01:26 PM) *
Sorry dude. These Javanese aborigines have been proven to be genetically closer to your chinese ppl.


All of your so-called "Malay" nobility who were exiled by the Dutch to Ceylon and South Africa are in fact Javanese, most of them coming from Banten. These pics are of Bantenese dare-devil performers. Hence, the original ancestor of Cape Malays are similar to these folks.
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Mar 13 2006, 01:31 PM) *
Orale.. then Chinese have the right to their own lands.. maybe they'll just take it back!!! embarassedlaugh.gif2
Orale....Vato good luck !! Arriba Arriba !!!
juwanFromTaiwan
Simmone!! Lecturel this Pinche Joto
QUOTE (purnomor @ Mar 13 2006, 01:34 PM) *
All of your so-called "Malay" nobility who were exiled by the Dutch to Ceylon and South Africa are in fact Javanese, most of them coming from Banten. These pics are of Bantenese dare-devil performers. Hence, the original ancestor of Cape Malays are similar to these folks.
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Mar 13 2006, 11:41 AM) *
Why would IM detest such depictions of Malays? Isn't he Malay too?
Nevermind the depictions.

Why can't you just tell us your ethnicity in here ?
What are you afraid of ?
tangawizi
What? Caucasoid SE Asians? Shd I take this seriously or is this juz hogwash?
purnomor
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Mar 13 2006, 01:39 PM) *
Simmone!! Lecturel this Pinche Joto


Tu es un pinche joto culero, pendejo, todo idiota que no sabe lo que dice y eso que dicen que esta guapo son unas pendejas que no saben distinguir lo bueno de la vida.
tangawizi
I am afraid of you, becos I hear you are racist against non-malays, are you?

QUOTE (purnomor @ Mar 13 2006, 09:47 PM) *
Tu es un pinche joto culero, pendejo, todo idiota que no sabe lo que dice y eso que dicen que esta guapo son unas pendejas que no saben distinguir lo bueno de la vida.


Why are you guys speaking bad mexican all of a sudden?

Por favor, no me vuelveis loca con vuestra culebrones.. embarassedlaugh.gif2
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (purnomor @ Mar 13 2006, 11:44 AM) *
Interesting, most of these political exiles to Ceylon were Javanese nobility, seems like Malays did not give Dutch any trouble so they never bother exiling Malays.
All Indonesian Malay Sultanates were in Kalimantan and Sumatra. These kingdoms managed to keep the Dutch out until the late 19th century.
malaccan
Aiyyooo, so getting off-topic.

QUOTE (tangawizi @ Mar 13 2006, 06:52 PM) *
I am afraid of you, becos I hear you are racist against non-malays, are you?

Don't you worry T, I'll protect you against IM! ^_^
tangawizi
IM, that's really interesting what you pointed out. In some quarters, caucasoids are believed to be linked to south asians and africans. Are you saying Malays are linked in that way to indians and africans? Which are your ancestors? Indians or africans?

If you are right abt that, and if you need to knw my ethnic background that badly, I am a feline cauca-mongoloidini.. biggrin.gif

Peranakan la...goondu! ...heee..

Oops there u are Malaccan, you are the one I have something to say to! icon_twisted.gif
purnomor
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Mar 13 2006, 01:53 PM) *
All Indonesian Malay Sultanates were in Kalimantan and Sumatra. These kingdoms managed to keep the Dutch out until the late 19th century.


Pinche madre! Actually the Dutch controlled Malaka from 1641-1825 when they exchanged it for British Bengkulu. The VOC also imposed trade monopoly on most Malay kingdoms in East Sumatera and West Borneo. The Johore-Riau-Lingga Kingdom was a Dutch VOC protectorate with permanent Dutch military presence and strong political control, as the Malay sultan there wanted protection from Acehnese attacks.

The only reason these Malay kingdoms weren't gulped directly by the Dutch is because until 19th century, VOC considered the cost of maintaining control over too much territory as eating into their profit margin. On the other hand, the Dutch VOC were forced into two-centuries of warfare to take over Java because the brave Javanese kings attacked Batavia (the Dutch administrative centre) many times.

After 19th century, when the time comes for the Dutch to take over territorial control, they have their easiest time conquering the Malay states in East Sumatera and Borneo without much opposition. Compare this with the resistance the Dutch faced from the Minangkabau people (Paderi War), the Acehnese people (Aceh War), the Batak people (Batak Wars), and even the West Kalimantan Chinese (Kongsi Wars).

Malay aristocrats later proved to be the so compliant and so devoted to the Dutch rulers in expense of their people that most East Sumatran Malay nobility was massacred by Indonesian nationalist youth during war of independence (1946 Social Revolution).
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Mar 13 2006, 01:52 PM) *
I am afraid of you, becos I hear you are racist against non-malays, are you?
Nah, I'm only racist against Malay haters.
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (purnomor @ Mar 13 2006, 02:08 PM) *
Pinche madre! Actually the Dutch controlled Malaka from 1641-1825 when they exchanged it for British Bengkulu. The VOC also imposed trade monopoly on most Malay kingdoms in East Sumatera and West Borneo. The Johore-Riau-Lingga Kingdom was a Dutch VOC protectorate with permanent Dutch military presence and strong political control, Nope. There were no Dutch military presence before late 19th century as the Malay sultan there wanted protection from Acehnese attacks.

The only reason these Malay kingdoms weren't gulped directly by the Dutch is because until 19th century, VOC considered the cost of maintaining control over too much territory as eating into their profit margin.This doesn't make sense at all On the other hand, the Dutch VOC were forced into two-centuries of warfare to take over Java because the brave Javanese kings attacked Batavia (the Dutch administrative centre) many times.

After 19th century, when the time comes for the Dutch to take over territorial control, they have their easiest time conquering the Malay states in East Sumatera and Borneo without much opposition. Compare this with the resistance the Dutch faced from the Minangkabau people (Paderi War), the Acehnese people (Aceh War), the Batak people (Batak Wars), and even the West Kalimantan Chinese (Kongsi Wars). This is because the Malays are not stupid enough to fight when there is no chance of winning. Theres no point suffering high casualties and even atrocities fighting wars against a much bigger country who is supported by the British. More arguments here http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...ndpost&p=745919

Malay aristocrats later proved to be the so compliant and so devoted to the Dutch rulers in expense of their people that most East Sumatran Malay nobility was massacred by Indonesian nationalist youth during war of independence (1946 Social Revolution). Source ?
purnomor
QUOTE
Nope. There were no Dutch military presence before late 19th century


Wrong. Ever heard of the Dutch VOC fort Altingsburg and Utrecht at Bukit Malawati Selangor? Ever heard of the Melaka Fort? Ever heard of the Dutch VOC fort at Pangkor Island Perak? Ever heard of Dutch VOC Fort Mossel at Kuala Linggi Melaka? Jeez, you don't know that much abt Malaysian history.. sure.gif

QUOTE
This doesn't make sense at all


Your Malay-pride is blinding your sense, or you have zero knowledge on Indonesian history.

Before 1799, the Dutch were represented by VOC (Dutch East India Company), which was a trading company owned by Heeren XIV (group of Dutch private stockholders). The VOC only seek to establish posts in all major trading centres in Asia to generate profit, not to control territory. Controlling territory means it must maintain things like justice system, police and military posts, population control, all which cost lots of money and eats into the company's profit. That's why until 19th century, Dutch control was limited only to Java (which the VOC needed two centuries of war to take over) and certain outposts in Outer Islands.

In 1799, VOC went bankrupt and its functions taken over by the Dutch government. It is only in late 19th century, as British, Spanish, and German colonialists started appearing in SE Asia, did the Dutch decided to extend its teritorial rule over to what is now Indonesia. This process started in 1820s with invasion of Minangkabau and Bali, ending in 1914 by the end of Aceh War and destruction of last independent Bali kingdom. Out of all the peoples the Dutch conquered during this period, the Malay statelets in Sumatera and Borneo proved to be the most docile and easy to take over.

QUOTE
This is because the Malays are not stupid enough to fight when there is no chance of winning. Theres no point suffering high casualties and even atrocities fighting wars against a much bigger country who is supported by the British.


In other words, Malays were one of the most subservient people to the European colonialists.

QUOTE
Source ?


1) "What Was the Social Revolution in East Sumatera 1946" by Mohammad Said and Benedict Anderson, 1973
2) Historical Atlas of Indonesia by Cribb, 2001

http://cip.cornell.edu/Dienst/UI/1.0/Summa...indo/1107128621
malaccan
Iron Malayan, cukup lah tu. As a fellow Malay I appreciate how we are sometimes derrided and underrated but that is no excuse for lashing back with even more ferocious vile. C'mon, be bigger than that. purnomor is an alright guy, who's as patriotic over Indonesia as you are over Malaysia. I vouch for him, he's a fellow ASEAN Clan member after all!

Bangga boleh asalkan jangan bongkak.
purnomor
^ How true..

I actually would not have deem it necessary to show this fact had IM not came out many times with his own fictional version of history that the Malays are "Caucasoid" superhero race and Indonesians are "aborigine" cowardly slaves. what a joke sure.gif
tangawizi
Ok fellas, that was some south american soap opera! Hopefully it's over..

Shall we hear it from our South African forummer, what's the affirmative action policy like in SA??
swingdoctor
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Mar 13 2006, 02:08 PM) *
IM, that's really interesting what you pointed out. In some quarters, caucasoids are believed to be linked to south asians and africans. Are you saying Malays are linked in that way to indians and africans? Which are your ancestors? Indians or africans?

If you are right abt that, and if you need to knw my ethnic background that badly, I am a feline cauca-mongoloidini.. biggrin.gif

Peranakan la...goondu! ...heee..

Oops there u are Malaccan, you are the one I have something to say to! icon_twisted.gif

Forgive my ignorance but I thought that Peranakan was a Chinese who had adopted the Malay Culture.
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