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Nusantara
Malaysians have to be willing to get their fingers dirty. Otherwise Malaysia will be swamped by migrants workers which created many negative things for Malaysia.
Estimates there are between two and a half and three million migrant workers in Malaysia and Malaysia population just 24 millions eek.gif

Excript from BBC news:

"Malaysian people... are sick of the increasing number of Indonesians, Bangladeshis, Filipinos and Indians on our streets. The crimes, gang fights and other social diseases are getting unbearable," said one respondent.

"Malaysia is not safe any more. We are sliding down to become the haven of illegal immigrants," said another.

Article
malaccan
True Nusantara, Malaysia needs to cut its dependence on foreign labour, but this is difficult. How many Malaysian families nowadays can do without having maids at home? For the longest time, my parents employed a local Malay nanny/cook who became closer to me than my own mother, and another helper from Perak to help with the housework. She stayed with us for 15 years before starting a family of her own. But now, there has been a string of helpers from Indonesia over the 15 years or so. Apart from one who stole some of my mom's jewelry the rest have been very good just like we've been kind to them. Ultimately it's a matter of choice, and Malaysians have just been so used to a good life. Malays, Chinese, Indians, all of us. And because of the acts of a few bad apples among the immigrant workers, the rest get a bad name. Kerana nila setitik, rosak susu sebelanga.
Lint
This is a worldwide problem, I guess we have to put up with migrants as we shift our skills to business and the white collar sector.
samheisfl
Without the migrants, malaysia's economy couldn't be this good.. They aren't many local people want to work at the construction site, plantation field and all those the heavy work.. Well, it is my opinion only..
pancaindera
QUOTE (Nusantara @ Jan 21 2006, 06:58 AM)
Malaysians have to be willing to get their fingers dirty. Otherwise Malaysia will be swamped by migrants workers which created many negative things for Malaysia.
Estimates there are between two and a half and three million migrant workers in Malaysia and Malaysia population just 24 millions  eek.gif

*


icon_confused.gif man, this doesnt look healthy at all.
thats like over 10percent of the population!
indeed they must do something. i think Sabah is the most fuct up.
according to wikipedia there is unofficially 0.5 million filipinos here.
and thats not including indonesians. sabah's population is >2.5mil.
thats like roughly 30% of our population comprising of immigrants! WTF.gif
was just wondering what if in the unlikely (?) situation where the ICJ orders
a referendum to be held to determine where sabahans want to belong
Malaysia or Philippines.... eek.gif
tengkuafif
I don't care about Indonesians coming here to Malaysia looking for jobs.
As long they are good, can speak Malaysian Malay and Muslim, that's fine with me.I don't see them as a threat as we share the same culture,sama language and same religion.

I don't like if Arabs/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis/Indians come here to Malaysia in mass quantity looking for jobs.Their culture is different and they speak different languages.Truthly, I never feel foreign when speaking to Indonesian people.

If Malaysia needs skilled worker, we should always opt for Indonesia first.I believe it is our responsibility to give priority to people from Indonesia and not people from any other countries.

Malaysian government should concern more about Chinese tourists who overstayed their visa.

Indonesian,jika anda seorang yang baik,silakanlah datang ke Malaysia.
johnleemk
So race is more important than country? That's what I thought.
tengkuafif
What do you mean,john?
Nusantara
QUOTE (tengkuafif @ Jan 21 2006, 09:29 PM)
I don't care about Indonesians coming here to Malaysia looking for jobs.
As long they are good, can speak Malaysian Malay and Muslim, that's fine with me.I don't see them as a threat as we share the same culture,sama language and same religion.

I don't like if Arabs/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis/Indians come here to Malaysia in mass quantity looking for jobs.Their culture is different and they speak different languages.Truthly, I never feel foreign when speaking to Indonesian people.

If Malaysia needs skilled worker, we should always opt for Indonesia first.I believe it is our responsibility to give priority to people from Indonesia and not people from any other countries.

Malaysian government should concern more about Chinese tourists who overstayed their visa.

Indonesian,jika anda seorang yang baik,silakanlah datang ke Malaysia.
*


Not all Indonesians are good and not all them are muslim, definition of Malay in Malaysia if the person native Austronesian and muslim but the problem is not all muslim in Indonesia will be fit into Melayu category.

I still remember the news non-Malay employer in Malaysia use Cristian Indonesian workers from Flores to expelled Muslim Indonesian workers. Many also Indonesians workers who works in Malaysia pretending to be Muslim to get advantages.

If you never heard the cases Indons like playing around with religions, there are many case in Indonesia cristian Indonesian marrying muslim Indonesian female pretending convert to Islam but later on after they lay their ugly egg into the nest inside the tummy of beautiful muslim females they divorce the females.
This kindof men are immoral aborigines and they like humiliating others.

Lates case here is happened to Indonesian actress. Perhaps also most female muslim in Indonesia has weakling and has slut mentality.
tengkuafif
Really they do that?
If that's the case,those people deserve to be hated then.
I think that is one of the reason which causes religious conflict in Indonesia.
Please correct me if I am wrong,Nusantara.


P/S:We will discuss later about 'Melayu sebagai ras'.
malaccan
I feel very close affinity with the Indonesians, I have Indonesian blood in me, but still feel that we don't owe them a living. Anyone who is qualified should be welcomed to Malaysia. We musn't be narrow-minded and give preference only to the people whose blood-relatives are already the majority in the country. The Indonesians who come to Malaysia to exploit the facilities of Malaysia by 'acting Malay' are just as bad as the Chinese who merely use Malaysia as a stepping-stone to better things. It's a two-way street though, the Malaysian government has to be firm in dealing with all foreigners, be they Indonesian or Chinese. Indonesian illegal workers who commit crime in Malaysia, Chinese 'dragon-girls' who wreak havoc in people's families, to the more benign south Indian barbers and restauranters employed by the local Indians... everyone wants to come to Malaysia cos they know they can and will be easily mistaken for a local.

The government needs to attract high-skilled talent to Malaysia. Malaysia needs the right kind of migrant, as it is fast becoming a developed nation, it has to ditch the old norms of migration and employ a proper means-stested assessment in letting people in. Even if tightening the immigration controls is at the expense of the country's GDP growth, then so be it. Social balance has to be restored, economic growth will follow suit.
109
Tengku has just taken over the position of biggest idiot on this website well done!

The simple fact is these migrant workers are not stealling anyones jobs. They are doing the work you don't want to and get no employee benefits from it either. If you don't want them here then pay a decent wage for people to work in $hitty jobs and conditions. I bet Tengku has a maid, where is she from? What do you pay her? Would you ever do that job for that money?

How many Malaysians built the Twin Towers compared to how many immigrate workers? Would love to know that figure.
johnleemk
QUOTE (tengkuafif @ Jan 22 2006, 11:59 AM)
What do you mean,john?
*

Your post implied that you would prefer if we gave priority to Indonesia when dealing with foreign countries. We should choose the country that gives Malaysia the best return on its investment, not the country that has closest cultural affiliations with Malaysians (not that that matters, seeing as almost half of all Malaysians aren't even Malay or Muslim).
tengkuafif
QUOTE (johnleemk @ Jan 22 2006, 04:53 PM)
Your post implied that you would prefer if we gave priority to Indonesia when dealing with foreign countries. We should choose the country that gives Malaysia the best return on its investment, not the country that has closest cultural affiliations with Malaysians (not that that matters, seeing as almost half of all Malaysians aren't even Malay or Muslim).
*


If Singaporean government favours people from Taiwan,Hong Kong,China,Macau etc. why can't we favour people from Indonesia?Singapore has done that and it has instantly changed the demographic of Singapore.And it is obvious that their goal was to make Singapore as a Chinese-majority nation.

Almost half of all Malaysians aren't even Malay or Muslim?
I think you are in the state of denial.
Nusantara
QUOTE (malaccan @ Jan 22 2006, 01:22 AM)
I feel very close affinity with the Indonesians, I have Indonesian blood in me, but still feel that we don't owe them a living. Anyone who is qualified should be welcomed to Malaysia. We musn't be narrow-minded and give preference only to the people whose blood-relatives are already the majority in the country.


Why not just banned most low quality all migrant workers, Malaysian has abandont of energy you even export it to Indonesia.
I am thinking why not Malaysia start using automatic appliance in the house such as: cloth and dish washing machine at least it's already reduce 1 migrant worker for each house. And start using machine to cut your grass it's already reduce 1 workers again.
Imagine if every household do the same how many migrant workers already being reduced.

QUOTE
The Indonesians who come to Malaysia to exploit the facilities of Malaysia by 'acting Malay' are just as bad as the Chinese who merely use Malaysia as a stepping-stone to better things. It's a two-way street though, the Malaysian government has to be firm in dealing with all foreigners, be they Indonesian or Chinese. Indonesian illegal workers who commit crime in Malaysia, Chinese 'dragon-girls' who wreak havoc in people's families, to the more benign south Indian barbers and restauranters employed by the local Indians... everyone wants to come to Malaysia cos they know they can and will be easily mistaken for a local.

The government needs to attract high-skilled talent to Malaysia. Malaysia needs the right kind of migrant, as it is fast becoming a developed nation, it has to ditch the old norms of migration and employ a proper means-stested assessment in letting people in. Even if tightening the immigration controls  is at the expense of the country's GDP growth, then so be it. Social balance has to be restored, economic growth will follow suit.
*


Chinese migrant workers are also bad the female they will overstayed and becoming prostitutes in Malaysia. Most foreign prostitutes in Malaysia coming from China. If it is male they will married local chinese Malaysian and demographic of race in Malaysia will be in favor of chinese. Look at Singapore now, now is chinese majority country by inviting many chinese from overseas. The local Chinese and native Malay in Singapore living like second class citizen.
tengkuafif
I don't think the Chinese demographic will increase in Malaysia. Statistic shows that their number is declining.
Protoculture
The main problem is not the legal immigrants who come to Malaysia to earn honest to goodness income.

Its the illegals that brings troubles.

Gangfights, petty & violence crimes, prostitutions & vices .... we have trouble to contains bad apples amongst local populations, these illegals immigrants seems to add more & more crime statistics.

Illegals comes from Indonesia (the bulks of the majority), Philippines (especially stirred trouble in Sabah), China (mostly females, the majority in vice industry), Myanmar.

It was these illegals that gave other honest legal immigrants in Malaysia a bad name.
johnleemk
QUOTE (tengkuafif @ Jan 23 2006, 01:01 AM)
If Singaporean government favours people from Taiwan,Hong Kong,China,Macau etc. why can't we favour people from Indonesia?Singapore has done that and it has instantly changed the demographic of Singapore.And it is obvious that their goal was to make Singapore as a Chinese-majority nation.

Almost half of all Malaysians aren't even Malay or Muslim?
I think you are in the state of denial.
*

I'm using Iron Malayan's figure of 12 million Malays (not Bumiputra), so you talk to him. The most common figure I hear for Malaysia's population is in the 23 million to 25 million range, which places the non-Malay/non-Muslim population comfortably in the "almost half" area.
Lint
QUOTE (Nusantara @ Jan 23 2006, 02:14 AM)
I am thinking why not Malaysia start using automatic appliance in the house such as: cloth and dish washing machine at least it's already reduce 1 migrant worker for each house. And start using machine to cut your grass it's already reduce 1 workers again.
Imagine if every household do the same how many migrant workers already being reduced.
*



Dude, do you live in malaysia? Many people are 'too busy' to tend to their domestic affairs. Try to convince someone living in KL to prepare their own meals or mow their own lawn instead of eating out with friends, planning business over the weekend or watching Astro. Heck, most are so busy they don't even bother with cultivating a garden.

If you want to reduce migrant workers it can only be enforced/legislated by the people and the law respectively.
johnleemk
Lint is right. Even families with dish and clothes washing machines still hire maids to operate those machines for them. The problem won't go away until Malaysians learn to start doing things by themselves.
Protoculture
QUOTE (johnleemk @ Jan 23 2006, 09:45 AM)
The problem won't go away until Malaysians learn to start doing things by themselves.
*


Why is it that I think the above quote is somewhat a wishful thinkings?

Gotta asked my Indo maid to fetch me some snacks while I think this over ... embarassedlaugh.gif
Nusantara
QUOTE (Lint @ Jan 23 2006, 09:24 AM)
If you want to reduce migrant workers it can only be enforced/legislated by the people and the law respectively.
*


As long as there is demand and as long as Malaysian only rely on Immigration officer, low quality migrant workers will keep coming either lrgally or legally. As I said from the very first beginning Self Service and willing to work something by yourself is the only way to reduce low quality migrant worker.

QUOTE (Protoculture @ Jan 22 2006, 10:24 PM)
The main problem is not the legal immigrants who come to Malaysia to earn honest to goodness income.

Its the illegals that brings troubles.

Gangfights, petty & violence crimes, prostitutions & vices .... we have trouble to contains bad apples amongst local populations, these illegals immigrants seems to add more & more crime statistics.

Illegals comes from Indonesia (the bulks of the majority), Philippines (especially stirred trouble in Sabah), China (mostly females, the majority in vice industry), Myanmar.

It was these illegals that gave other honest legal immigrants in Malaysia a bad name.
*


Even they are coming legally if it is too many and not disproportionally with native population will stir the problem too.
Nusantara
Excript:
"Malaysia needs to introduce social security system as an incentive for immigrant workers to leave after certain period as the present system of controlling legal and illegal foreign workers through levy and laws are ineffective, an international labour migrant expert said.
Workers must have incentive to encourage them to leave...not just rules. A social security system which refund certain amount of money to them or something like retirement benefit given only when they leave will come in handy"

http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news.php?id=188153
QUOTE
M'sia Needs Social Security To Control Migrant Workers - Expert
By D.Arul Rajoo

BANGKOK, March 27 (Bernama) -- Malaysia needs to introduce social security system as an incentive for immigrant workers to leave after certain period as the present system of controlling legal and illegal foreign workers through levy and laws are ineffective, an international labour migrant expert said.

Philip Martin said experience had shown migrant policy management would not be effective unless there was flexibility and close coordination between government agencies and as well as between employers and employees.

"Workers must have incentive to encourage them to leave...not just rules. A social security system which refund certain amount of money to them or something like retirement benefit given only when they leave will come in handy," he told Bernama in an interview.

Martin, who advises International Labour Organisation (ILO) and many governments on migrant issues, said Malaysia could emulate Canada's success in implementing such a scheme, adding that the country had 97 per cent return rate.

He said Malaysia has two million migrants in labour force of 10 million, with Indonesians dominating among construction and plantation workers.

He said the Malaysian Government uses a levy system similar to Singapore but was much less capable of preventing illegal migration and employment, leading to periodic sweeps that send tens of thousands of Indonesians home.

"Malaysia's experience has shown that migrants are always on the rise despite all the rules. I expect the number to rise and not to reduce because they are dependent on foreign migrants like in oil palm and rubber plantations," he said.

Martin said Malaysia must work with employers to plan reduction in foreign workers over a certain period of time as too much dependence on foreign workers would result in social problems over the years.

"The first generation of migrant workers know their roots and problems in their homeland but second and third generations don't, and you have problems like recent riots in France," he said.

He said the number of long-term international migrants (those residing in foreign countries for more than a year) had grown steadily in the past four decades.

According to the UN Population Division, in 1965, only 75 million people fit the definition, rising to 84 million by 1975, 105 million by 1985, 120 million in 1990s and 150 million in 2000.

Martin also said everytime a Government undertakes illegal workers' registration exercise, it would delay their departure and this would encourage more to come.

He said some countries have a policy of encouraging skilled workers who enjoyed better benefits and opportunities of naturalisation while at the same time rotate unskilled labourers.

"But how are you going to end this rotation. Many employers prefer to keep them for their experience and don't want to train new workers," he said.

He said even with the large and growing number of international migrants, it was important to keep in mind that fewer than three per cent of the world's population have been living outside of their home countries for a year or longer.


Case study:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ia/14187290.htm

QUOTE
Thousands stage demonstration in Los Angeles for immigrants' rights
PETER PRENGAMAN
Associated Press

LOS ANGELES - In Washington D.C., talk about a proposed crackdown on illegal immigrants has been about jobs and terrorism.

But in downtown Los Angeles, where over 200,000 people dressed in white and boisterously marched in front of City Hall, talk about immigrants was in terms of brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, parents and children.

The largely Hispanic crowd, waving American, Mexican, Guatemalan and other flags from around Latin America, included thousands who had crossed the border themselves or whose families did so only a generation or two earlier.

"My mom came from Mexico, she had to cross the river, and thank God she did," said David Gonzalez, 22, who held a sign saying, "I'm in my homeland.'"

Gonzalez said tougher stand on undocumented immigrants would mainly hurt Hispanics and do nothing to improve border security.

"How is that making the border safer?" he asked. "When did you ever see a Mexican blow up the World Trade Center? Who do you think built the World Trade Center?"

The march, followed by a rally, was the largest of a series of demonstrations over House-passed legislation that would make it a felony to be in the U.S. illegally, impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants, and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border. The Senate was to begin debating immigration proposals on Tuesday.

President Bush, in his weekly radio address, urged Congress to write a new immigration law with a guest worker program that could provide legal status - short of citizenship - for some of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

Immigrants are "doing jobs that Americans will not do," he said.

Many protesters said they rejected arguments that an amnesty would be unfair to immigrants who entered the country legally.

"You always here the argument about 'being unfair to the people waiting in line,'" to get an entry visa, said Perias Pillay, 44, who immigrated legally from Malaysia when he was 18. "But the reality is that most people don't qualify to wait in line. The government needs to make it easier to immigrate."

Police Cmdr. Louis Gray Jr., incident commander for the rally, said aerial helicopters estimated over 200,000 people, but the number could be way over that.

"I've been on the force 38 years and I've never seen a rally this big," said Gray.

Gray said there were no arrests or reports of property damage.

Los Angeles County is one of the country's most racially diverse areas, with over 50 percent Hispanic of all generations and with roots all over Latin America.

Protesters said immigrants wanted nothing more than to be legal, law-abiding citizens.

"You give them a chance to be citizens, and they'll surprise you," said Jerry Jaramillo, 62, whose parents immigrated from Mexico when he was 8-years-old.
Mr.Hornbill
There should be enough Malaysian to replace the foreign immigrants..

We don't mind to get our hands DIRTY. It's no big deal..Really.

But the question is the labour market. In my place, Sarawak, you'll only get RM15 perday to work in a plantation. That's the reason why they need those foreigners, who can accept much lower rate. Instead of getting my hands dirty and being paid RM15 per day.. I rather do some backyard farming which is much more rewarding. Even for selling " Tauge "..I can still manage to get tripled of plantation's rate amount.

Govt should give an eye to this in order to solve the immigrants thang. Especially pak uban of SWK.

Gotta go. icon_twisted.gif
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (Nusantara @ Apr 1 2006, 07:57 PM) *
Excript:
"Malaysia needs to introduce social security system as an incentive for immigrant workers to leave after certain period as the present system of controlling legal and illegal foreign workers through levy and laws are ineffective, an international labour migrant expert said.
Workers must have incentive to encourage them to leave...not just rules. A social security system which refund certain amount of money to them or something like retirement benefit given only when they leave will come in handy"
Yea.This idea should have been implemented a long time ago. I must add the payment should be made only when they have left Malaysia. Paying them before departure will only allow them to disappear in Malaysia with the money.
tangawizi
Instead of paying out in cash, why don't they have a treaty to transfer pension funds to the country of origin?

Don't bite me, I am only trying to be helpful..
Nusantara
I think Malaysia should stop hiring maids from other countries and start using automatic electric appliance instead.

Malaysia tightens rules for hiring Indonesian maids


Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia has plans to tighten employment requirements for agencies bringing Indonesian maids into the country as a move to monitor and protect both foreign workers and local employers, reports said Friday.

Home Affairs Minister Mohamad Radzi Sheikh Ahmad said that local agents would soon be required to apply for permits from two different ministries - human resources and home affairs - before they are allowed to bring in workers.

Currently, maid employment agencies are only licensed by the Human Resources Ministry, he was quoted as saying by the Star daily.

Mohamad Radzi said there was a need for tighter government control over the employment agencies to ensure that foreign maids were hired in accordance with the law.

There are some 310,000 foreign maids working in Malaysia, 90 per cent from Indonesia, the report said. Maids also come from neighbouring Cambodia, Sri Lanka and the Philippines.

Mohamad Radzi said that the government would soon set a fixed agency fee, following complaints that certain maid agents charged both local employers and foreign workers exorbitant fees.

Foreign maids are paid a monthly salary of 120 dollars and above, depending on their experience and country of origin, but wages from the first few months of work are often used to pay off their local agents as employment fees.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapac...ndonesian_maids
yana19384
i dont mind self service...but when we face a problem with the machine or anything that we have to operate ourselves and that we dunno how to or there really is a problem..then there comes the problem cos nobody there to help us with it...
Nusantara
CHINESE PROSTITUTES FLOOD MALAYSIA

Immigration. It’s immigration again.

Could it start a flood in the United States? Why not? Very well could happen.

Lax immigration means anything goes. America has been dealt a lax immigration mode for too long a time. Therefore, we are reaping communicable diseases spread due to that mode. As for prostitution misuse of immigration laxity, time will tell.

Today we have just that occurring in Malaysia. Immigration officials are taking steps to stem the tide.

Chinese females are putting whatever sounds legitimate on their forms in order to get into Malaysia. Then they brazenly ply their prostitution trade. The male Malaysian population plays right into their hands But the decent citizenry as well as authorities are not all that happy with what’s going on.

According to United Press International, Malaysian immigration offices are weighing putting NOT WELCOME upon entry requests to single females from China. Too many have turned into brothel fodder.

How will Malaysia deal with this tawdry trend? They will establish laws that permit females from China only if they have "local references or those traveling with tour groups." This is according to the South China Morning Post.

"’We are swarmed by young women from China who enter as tourists but work as prostitutes,’ the newspaper quoted a senior police official as saying. ‘They are everywhere ... in nightclubs, karaoke lounges, and they even travel in vans converted into brothels to serve foreign workers at construction sites.’"

There are "thousands" of Chinese women who have become "noon brides" to businessmen in Malaysia. That is, they are available for sex to these men on their lunch breaks. They even entertain their wares in "exclusive apartments," according to the news release.

"A local police officer estimated about 50 Chinese girls per day entered Sarawak state in east Malaysia, site of a mining and timber boom. About 37,000 Chinese nationals entered Malaysia as students last year, mainly to study English. Officials say many have disappeared."

Article
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