discuss

the state of Nan Viet, was a Sino-Vietnamese state, since was Vietnam was a part of it, i somewhat do consider him Vietnamese, but i am scare to totally accept him since bunch of Chinese members in here will go crazy about it, the last time i even mentioned Xiang Yu, one of the Chinese member said i tried to steal Xiang Yu from China

we should be willing to discuss these issues without fear of trolls. if we avoid these topics, then the ultra hardcore chinese nationalist trolls win

lol what are U up to this time

Oh yeah, I remember that one Chinese Member on here was really upset about me mentioning Xiang Yu in the same breath with the Nan Man, he decided to travel back to time to take a picture of Xiang Yu and Liu Bang shaking hands to proof that Xiang Yu doesnt look like a monkey

Go suck Uncle Mao's d!ck, DavidChen!

Vietnamese history books never consider Trieu Da as "Vietnamese" because he's a foreigner who invaded Vietnam.

but he also made vietnam independent of the han dynasty. so was he an opportunist, or did he promote the idea that vietnam should be seperate from china?

Wrong, he's still considered as a foreigner because he invaded Vietnam.

Nah, Chao To was a Chinese

what about his sons? he impregnated hundreds of yueh (cantonese and vietnamese) women.

Chinese is a Chinese....end of story.

well...his sons and grandsons had a lot of vietnamese blood. only Triệu Đà is fully chinese by blood.

I would consider him Vietnamese and what he did to the Yue. Although he invaded the Nan Yue (Nam Viet), he must have regretted after his son, Trong Thuy, died from suicidal attempt. The Chinese just blindly claimed himself as Chinese because of his blood, but IMO he was converted and willing to live as the Yue. His son was culturally a Yue and genetically half.

For Vietnamese people who have opposite view from me, I think you need to understand what it means to be Vietnamese. It's the one who carries out the Viet (Yue) culture and promote the Viet (Yue) heritage. Trieu Da seems to fit into this.

If he is not Han then he is Vietnamese, end of the story. We viet got 100 tribes roaming around southern China until the Han pushes us down to present day Vietnam . i didn't come up with this Idea, DNA evidents, tombs of our kings in southern China prove this.

I was thinking the same thing.

Tombs of our Kings? where abouts in China?

I cannot understand the way you are reasoning:
1- There were 100 tribes beside the Han.
2- If someone is not Han, he is in 1 amongst the 100 tribes.
3- 1 amongst the 100 tribes is Vietnamese.
4- Then he is Vietnamese.
It sounds to be logical, but it is not.
Please, think again.

Care to explain why its not?

100 tribes is one race of people ..... like the Mongolian. All have different chief or leader but they all came from a common ancestor.
Family => Clan ==> tribe and many tribes make up a nation. Well there is 100 Viet tribes. i think the two Biggest is Lac Viet and Au Viet. Then Hung Vuong united all the tribes to created our nation, called Au-Lac (similar to Genis Khan untied all the Mongolian tribes).

if Trieu Da is chinese , why is he so important in vietnam?

Because you're gay

Zhao Tuo was a Chinese. His kingdom was a Chinese one. You may call it a Yue state, but as far as we concern, the Yue is not equivalent with the Vietnamese. Some Yue tribes were ancestors of the Vietnamese, but the majority of them are NOT. Moreover, Zhao Tuo's kingdom was centered at the Pearl River delta. He didn't rule the Red River delta directly from Panyu, but instead sent some emissaries to collect tributes from the local chieftains there. This relationship was similar to later relationship between the Chinese "mandate of heaven" and the Annamese kingdom, which were fully independent. Therefore, I suggest that Zhao Tuo is neither a Vietnamese, nor a Chinese conqueror of Vietnam.

The ancient Vietnamese weren't officially conquered by the Chinese Empire until 43AD, when general Ma Yuan suppressed the resistance of the Trung sisters.

Don't think of China as it is today. There were ever changing small kingdoms with lots of different tribes/ethnics. The Han/Song Dynasty was small and losing, and had to downsize again and again towards the south until they also lost their territory to the Mongols (who did all the job of regrouping), then later the muslim tribes (from Turkey and Persia) installed the Ming Dynasty, then the Jin/Jurchen/Manchu Dynasty took over again until they all were submitted again to Western powers... modern times China prefer to think of all the victors as if they were "Chinese". So they or some of them want to think of the prouder Lac Yue/modern Vietnamese as if they were also "Chinese".

Because it is not logical . If you know how to reason correctly, please, read:

1- There were 100 tribes beside the Han.
2- If someone is not Han, he is in 1 amongst the 100 tribes.
3- 1 amongst the 100 tribes is Vietnamese.
4- Then he is Vietnamese.

At the step 3, you should know other 99 tribes are not Vietnamese.
Then, at the step 4, someone is not Han, he can be amongst the other 99 tribes.
At the step 5, the other 99 tribes today are either Han, or non-Han Chinese.
At the step 6, he is 1% to be Vietnamese, and 99% the chance to be Chinese.

I hope, this time, I clear the cloud.

If you're interested in ancient Vietnamese you should read this book: Eden in the East by Stephen Oppenheimer. I don't know if any proud Chinese read this book and be willing to argue with the author or draw any conclusion in this forum I would be glad to read their arguments or debate.

I recently read this article that Trieu Da may have been just a myth.

Who the hell is this guy Northwest student? Got so much free time to gather information about Vietnam. Can someone teach him how to do reseach probably? He seems to get all the wrong information. Poor thing.

And how does he know how to write the name of Trieu Da in Vietnamese like that?

who is he?

I think North Western Student might know how to explain it to you in Chinese name and terminology. Sorry, some of us can't help you with that.