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Asia Finest Discussion Forum > Asian Culture > Cambodian / Khmer Chat > Khmer Serious Talk
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azn_leaki
QUOTE(nangsbek @ Jul 5 2006, 12:59 PM) [snapback]2021654[/snapback]

khamens and khoms are just the same word for khmer, in angkor there was hardly any distintion between them, khoms are just regular people. and ps, do you think you descended from royalty, master builders, your ancestors were probaly slaves of the higher class? you mad cuz our empire was wayy better then ayyuthuya, it fell because of ignorant kings but at its peak it was one of asia's greatest civilization, producing religous art topping that of any civilization, larger then any european city at the time, it had hospitals, inns, produce crops 4 times a year, women enjoy high status, one great temple took more then 60,000 people to operate, the population was well above a million.


oohh you talk bad about thai!!! embarassedlaugh.gif i'm telling ling!
transtic
Hey! It's back!
Sovanna Phoum
QUOTE(shoehorn.o.plenty @ Oct 18 2005, 04:19 PM) [snapback]1142527[/snapback]

the khom is just a convenient excuse given by people like bodyslam to deny modern day khmers of their heritage, thus allowing thais to lay claim to various aspects of culture. the only people who hold this position are thais like bodyslam who has yet to offer one credible piece of evidence to support his views.

his assertion is highly improbable to begin with. how would the ancient thais be able to orchestrate such a massive relocation of angkorian leaders and culturalists to leave cambodia with just 'khamen' and khamen alone? it's only my assumption that the population was massive, but lets think about this. you can't expect a great civilization such as ancient angkor to be built and maintained by just a few leaders. great people had to be produced directly from the population or the civilization would have collapsed much sooner than 600 years.

sorry, it just doesn't fly.


I think some thai historians rewrote the history to teach their kids about the Khom and Khmen and to influence the decision on Preah Vihear Court Case awhile back...In spite of what they rewrote, the Preah Vihear was awarded to the right owner...that is the Khmer.
lemongrass
QUOTE(Bodyslam @ Oct 17 2005, 10:46 AM) [snapback]1137785[/snapback]

menghuy, it is true . Siam and Thai is the the same. Siam is the old name of the country. Thai is the name of the race who control siam. Siam is a group of people who live in Siam. Thai. Mon. Laos, Khmer ,Malay, Jam can be Siamese. Because Siam is an Empire. The Empire consist of many races. Thai is a ruling class and majority of tha people in Siam Empire. After we lose Laos, Cambodia, northern state of Malasia to Western countries. So we change our name of the country to Thailand. That is mean the Land of the Thai race only. We are realistic race. We are not live in the dream. We have to live with we have and develope our country which our remaining land. We are not dream to our old Siam Empire who control Laos, Cambodia and others areas.

I would like to thank professor, general "BIG BAD BODY SLAM" you are one inteligent and most enlighten person and blessed with all the knowledge of humanity. His Royal Highnes the King of Thailand would be very proud of you that one day, I hope he make you the Priminister of the Great Kingdom of Thailand. I am but your humble subject who would like to have a few point of clarification from your excellency. From your knowledge and command of word choice, you must be at least a General of the Thai Royal Army or Member of Thai Parliament. Please forgive my intrusion upon your presence, because I am but a barbarian who do not know any better.
You have stated that "Siam and Thai is the same." but Khom and Kamen are not the same. "After we lose Laos, Cambodia, northern state of Malasia to western countries. So we change our name of the country to Thailand. That is mean the land of the Thai race only." I am dissapointed that your excellency have forgotten us, the barbaric little people who live and served his royal majesy the King of the Great Kingdom of Thailand. The little people I reffer to are the Kamen, Laos, Mon, Kha, Koy, Malai, etc. etc. etc................
These are the little people that on a whole contribute to the greatness of Thailand. Please tell me, where do we stand in your great scheme of things.
I cannot speak for all the ethnic groups but I can speak for myself. I am a "Kamen" not Khmer, not Khom, the little people that serve you. Do you know how many of us are in Thailand? What do you and your fellow Thai considered us to be? Are we the same people that you have described so blattently as barbaric, "Kamen" because we have always been reffered to as Kamen also. We live and work and served the king just like any other Thai except we are Khmer desent. My brother and many of my cousins are in the Thai Royal Army are serving in the southern theater of operation against Islamic terrorism, because we believe in the greater good of the Kingdom.
Please, excellency be aware of the ramefication of your reply to my humble questions. icon_sad.gif
Goombaking209
No need for royal sweet talk to a person like bodyslam. Im glad he's a victim of ben's banned bus

and if you're reading this bodyslam (im sure you're using a different name) then please keep your arrogance where it belongs in the thaichat, k? thanks
joost_leaki
QUOTE(Bodyslam @ Oct 18 2005, 07:03 AM) [snapback]1141047[/snapback]

I tell you what is Thai people think. This is common in Thai Society. We don't call Cambodian as Khmer. The word Khmer is not in Our Languague.

We use Khmen in stead.
And we use word Khom to represent the Ancient people who live in the Khmer Empire.

We respect Khom but Khmen is something low, untrust, uncivilze.

That is the way it is. I'm not insulted you, but this is common knowledge in Thai Society. I've explained why we think like that.

Khmen is acted like we think. You are never show you have a quality like "Khom". The answer is you are decent from the lower class of the Khmer Empire.

This theory was presented long time ago in Thai Society.
We are very surprise whe we study the history and Civilisation of Khmer Emppire. However, when we look at the people in Cambodia and what is they do after Khmer Empire crumbled. We don't belive they are decent from the same group.

Khom is civilized. Khmen is like a babarian, underdevelop.

Last two year, Khmen burned our ambassy with very stupid reason. That we don't know we can angry or pity. Many situations proved the theory many many time.

Farmer, Serf, Slave can not build a civilize kingdom. After their master was gone. They can not like his master.

Theory proved long time ago.


i wonder why the khom as you say spoke a language nearly identical to the khmen? the ancient language of angkor and the language today have less diffrences then portuguese and spanish, and is it safe to say the sukothais were not thai but lao since, lao is closer to sukhothai then thais today?
lemongrass
QUOTE(Goombaking209 @ Sep 5 2006, 12:24 PM) [snapback]2262190[/snapback]

No need for royal sweet talk to a person like bodyslam. Im glad he's a victim of ben's banned bus

and if you're reading this bodyslam (im sure you're using a different name) then please keep your arrogance where it belongs in the thaichat, k? thanks

thanks for the advice. i'll like to meet you when i get a chance to go to stockton.

QUOTE(joost_leaki @ Sep 5 2006, 06:02 PM) [snapback]2263108[/snapback]

i wonder why the khom as you say spoke a language nearly identical to the khmen? the ancient language of angkor and the language today have less diffrences then portuguese and spanish, and is it safe to say the sukothais were not thai but lao since, lao is closer to sukhothai then thais today?

i wondered how Khmerland would look like 50years from now?
lemongrass
QUOTE(Goombaking209 @ Sep 5 2006, 12:24 PM) [snapback]2262190[/snapback]

No need for royal sweet talk to a person like bodyslam. Im glad he's a victim of ben's banned bus

and if you're reading this bodyslam (im sure you're using a different name) then please keep your arrogance where it belongs in the thaichat, k? thanks

i wonder why he was banned from this sight? i like this guy. i like to meet him in person. so are lots of thai soldires who are stationed at the cambodian boarder. thailand have enough problem as it is with the southern province/changwat. no need for problem with the east /cambodia.
Sangkhem
QUOTE(Bodyslam @ Oct 17 2005, 11:51 AM) [snapback]1137796[/snapback]
Virvs. may be it is the same word with khmen that the Thai call Cambodia.
If you go to Thailand and talk about Cambodia we called them Khmen, never Khmer.

If you see an old relic like a Prasart. We called it Prasart Khom.
There have nothing link with Cambodian or Khmen but Khom.


Come on you guy, I think you know better than that, the term "Khom" was an ancient word used by Thais and Laos for the Khmer people. Many peoples have used different terms or pronunciations to describe the Khmer: in about AD 70, Pliny, the Roman author and his exploring son called the Khmer Camarini (Historica Naturalis), they were called Kumar by the Arabs; Kui kmi by the Chams, Coa Mein, or Mein, by the Vietnamese. You should check with Thai dictionary before you say something like that. This is from the modern Thai dictionary, KHOM or Kaum= the Cambodian Nation, the alphabet of ancient Cambodians in which the sacred books of the Siamese are written, being in part source of the modern Siamese characters (Ala. p. 291). There was no such as KHOM for clever people and KHMEN for lower level people like other person just described.
Sangkhem
QUOTE(Bodyslam @ Oct 17 2005, 08:36 AM) [snapback]1137403[/snapback]
In thailand we call people who live in Cambodia is Khmen and Ccitizen of Old Khmer Empire we call "Khom".

An we do not belive to group of people is the same group.

We respect so much on "Khom" But Khmen.
Khom is something high, clever, but Khmen is different.

If you reserch on the history of Khmer Empire. The Empire had an immigrant from the Indian. The Bhram caste. The Bhram caste immigated from indian and settle in the land we call Cambodia now. In this land, there have their indiguous people who live here, uncivilize. But after Bhram create a Kingdom and later the Empre. They become a ruling caste.

The structure of Khmer Empire was like an Indian. There have a caste system, but it is not so strong like in India because of the influence from Budhist. The Bhram become ruling caste and indegous people become a farmer, slave, or serf.

When khmer Emire was collapsed by Siam. The siam army took the ruling caste of Khmer empire to Ayuthaya. That is why Ayutthaya had more influence from Khmer Empire.

The Khamen had a very weak link with the Old "Khom". They are a lower caste of Khmer society. Ofter the higher caste was gone. The Khamen in rural area and a distance areas create a new kingdom and the sucessor kingdom never success like a Khmer Empire. Because the are not as good as quality like the old one. That is why Khamen is very weak. However, they have seen his master glorius day. Most of them dream about the glorius day that they had been live with their master, "Khom".

That is why Siam pay restpect on Khom never Khamen.


Good, I like what you said: "Siamese pay respect on KHOM" because KHOM, Khmer or KHMEN are the same people. Do you have anything to proof that KHOM were not KHMER or KHMEN? You Thais people can say what ever you want to say, but in the end the world will not believe you. Why don't you read THIS? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Empire).
sonofgunongjerai
Isn't that Khamen and Khmer the same thing???? Khmer Khrom in my understanding are the Khmers who live in the broad-land with wet Paddy agriculture. Khmer Surin who live up North. Khmer Phnom in Cambodia. But still all of them are identified as Khmer.

Mon people are the people of Ramannadesa in Myanmar (6-7th C AD). There are also identical people to Mons in Thailand like in Phra Nakhon Dvaravati, Haribunjai and Lopburi in Central Thai, we refer them too as Mons. Also people who are identical to Mons extended South even to Malaysian Northern States before Malayanized by Srivijai. Mon and Khmer were distant cousins and natives in Thailand and Malaysia.

Southern Changwats problem happened because of Politicians. I hate politicians, most Southerners like in Phukhet, Satun and Songkhla are proud with Thailand as a Nation and also respecting Thai Maharat, we love the King like our own father whatever religion we are. Only those in Patani and Yala are not satisfied with Central Government especially after the killing and bad treatment in Takbai (Nakhon Si Thammarat). By the way we were basically Mon-Khmer of Langgasuka not Malays, Langgasuka is not Malay. We might have Malay or T'ai ancestry due to Sukhotai and Srivijai invasion but basically we were Mon-Khmer. Genuine Malays are precisely South Sumateranese (Indonesians). They do live among us and their culture influencing us because of Srivijai overlordship began 7th C but that doesn't mean that we are all Malays. There are Buddhist Langgasukan and majority of Langgasukans were already Muslims since 10th C converted by Yemeni Arabs and Pasai Achehnese (Sumateranese).

Other natives identical to Mons and Khmers who never establish any Kingdoms in Malaysia are Senoic, Jah-Houk, and Southern-Most Senoics who live in the near coastal and sub-villages area in Southern Malaysian states. They are in majority animists and shamanists. They are pure Mon-Khmer people without any mix with Indians nor Malays.
sneahacheathkhmer
Why can't all of you just accept HISTORY, Khmers were in existance long before Thailand. Doesn't matter what "caste" or label such as "Khmer, Khmen, Khom", they are what they are and they came before Thailand.

Get it right, Khom is the ancient Cambodian people and Khmer is the name for us today, it has been changed over the centuries for social and political reasons, everyone should quit the criticism and drop their egos.

I don't know why Thai folks come in here to these forums disrespecting Khmers, I have Thai friends both born in Thailand or America and they have no problem being a friend to me, a KHMER, so you all should learn from that, its called RESPECT.


JEY YO KAMPUCHEA, KHMER MAO MUNH KEI.
hehe =]
Goombaking209
^ Khmer never called themselves Khom. Khom is the Thai word they made up for Khmer. Khmer has always been Khmerrrr
AnKoRiaN1
QUOTE (Bodyslam @ Oct 17 2005, 08:36 AM) *
In thailand we call people who live in Cambodia is Khmen and Ccitizen of Old Khmer Empire we call "Khom".

An we do not belive to group of people is the same group.

We respect so much on "Khom" But Khmen.
Khom is something high, clever, but Khmen is different.

If you reserch on the history of Khmer Empire. The Empire had an immigrant from the Indian. The Bhram caste. The Bhram caste immigated from indian and settle in the land we call Cambodia now. In this land, there have their indiguous people who live here, uncivilize. But after Bhram create a Kingdom and later the Empre. They become a ruling caste.

The structure of Khmer Empire was like an Indian. There have a caste system, but it is not so strong like in India because of the influence from Budhist. The Bhram become ruling caste and indegous people become a farmer, slave, or serf.

When khmer Emire was collapsed by Siam. The siam army took the ruling caste of Khmer empire to Ayuthaya. That is why Ayutthaya had more influence from Khmer Empire.

The Khamen had a very weak link with the Old "Khom". They are a lower caste of Khmer society. Ofter the higher caste was gone. The Khamen in rural area and a distance areas create a new kingdom and the sucessor kingdom never success like a Khmer Empire. Because the are not as good as quality like the old one. That is why Khamen is very weak. However, they have seen his master glorius day. Most of them dream about the glorius day that they had been live with their master, "Khom".

That is why Siam pay restpect on Khom never Khamen.


Wat fukkk this lady boy talking about? Try 2 make up $hit to discredit Khmer, because those f@g our using it..
And thai are not siam. Siam have penis and thais don't. Nothin precious about thai and siam anyway.. A bunch of failures that ran way south, lost their country, weak ancestors, weak kings that's y they ran away like cowards and slaves the Khmer Empire. The only reason they came up is because they drop therr chinese heritage and use the great KHMER culture.
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KhmerBoi
The histoy that you read is for the layman! The logic is not base on realistic evidence and bas relief .... For nationalism! To go out of this troll you need to clearn your brain and do research advanualy if u r living in Thailand. I can tell youthat Thailand is crap coutry to learn about the truth history but fancy n colorful which nothing wrong with their ethnic. But of cause in reality no one is perfect! I suggesting you to do it independently!
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