I find it's ridiculous that most of official holidays in Vietnam are Soviet based..

May 1st: International Labour day: Yea right international labour day... mostly celebrated in the former Soviets
March 8th: International Women Day: same as above
June 1st: International Children Day: same as above

I think there are more... like Đảng day.. Can't seem to remember

Women day should convert back to Hai Ba Trung day in South Vietnam Goverment, bring the Tran Hung Dao and Hung Vuong day back like in ex South Vietnam government.

I agree with you if you agree with me that the Vietnamese should stop celebrating holidays like "Tet", "Tet Trung Thu", and "Tet Doan Ngo", those are not Vietnamese holidays.

Tet Trung Thu and Tet Doan Ngo I assume are Chinese holidays. But unfortunately, I don't believe Chinese can have exclusive claim to Tet, or Lunar New Year, anymore because it's celebrated by pretty much the whole East Asia.

I don't understand why Vietnamese would even celebrate Tet Trung Thu and Tet Doan Ngo though. The story behind Trung Thu is purely Chinese while Doan Ngo was based on a real Chinese patriot.

nope Tet Nguyen dan embedded vietnamese culture spiritually and religiously for 2 thousand years now.. People and students don't get off work or schools for Tet Trung Thu and Tet Doan Ngo,. These Tets also hardly celebrated in Saigon, most of them are celebrated in Northern Vietnam

I also have to agree with Kulong. It is silly to abandon a holiday such as the Lunar New Year that has been practiced for thousands of years in Vietnam, just because it is a Chinese holiday. Lunar New Year is a vital part of Vietnamese culture and has grown into its own celebration that is distinct from the Chinese one. Also many countries celebrate Lunar New Year like Koreans and Japanese.

Just because some people don't like Chinese, doesn't mean that they should abolish something that has been part of their culture for so long.

I thought only the Vietnamese and Korean celebrate Chinese New Year while the Japanese celebrate their New Year on January 1st (based on the western calendar)

they used to celebrate it is what I believe

Well if you mean official holiday. But until recent times, Japanese have always celebrated Chinese New Year. I don't believe the Lunar New Year is still an official holiday in Japan but a large portion of the population still celebrates it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_New_Year

Mochi
Another custom of the Japanese is making rice cakes. Boiled mochigome (glutinous rice) is put in to a wooden shallow bucket like container and patted with water while another person hits it with a large wooden hammer. By mashing the rice, the rice gets sticky and forms a sticky white dumpling. This is made before New Years Day and eaten during the beginning of January.


This reminds me of Banh Chung used in Vietnam New Year


"Banh Chung" or square rice cake is a Vietnamese traditional dish most commonly found during the "Tet" New Year celebration.
Every Vietnamese family must have "Banh Chung" among their offerings to be placed on the ancestors' altars.

Wierd, I have never heard of those Tet before, except the real Tet (New Year). But most of those holidays are celebrated by Chinese in Vietnam. The Vietnamese just celebrate it for fun. Ya know...

supernovasp,

I don't know if you have ever heard of this. Prior to the coming of the Chinese, the Vietnamese already had their own writing script that looks like a tagpole but this script was mostly destroyed by the Chinese. However, there are some 22 characters still remained today in northern Vietnam. I've heard that this script looks quite like the writing script of the Muong people ( who is the closest relative of the Vietnamese).

cool! where'd you find that info?

I don't remember, unfortunately

Is this Vietnamese writing script you are referring to called 'Chu Nom'?

I remember in Saigon, Tet Trung Thu is celebrated by children... they eat mooncake, and bring the Vietnamese latterns... quite different from Chinese and Japanese.

The only thing I remember in Tet Doan Ngo is people eat "com ruou" or wine rice, then staring at the sky at 12 because it is supposed to be good for your eyes

No, Chu Nom is based on the Chinese pictogram, this script is not. To be honest with you, i've never seen this script either.

Nope. Chu Nom is Hanzi based.

He mentioned about these undeciphered images in Dong Son Drum

Dong Son drum does not have any script on it.

If my memory serves me right, i've seen this script in a book and the script has that "worm-like" looking. The script was on its early stages of development

Okay,

Tet Doan Ngo
Held on the 5th day of the 5th lunar month, Tet Doan Ngo is also called Parasite-Killing Festival. This is a mid-year festival to enhance the prevention of evils and illnesses, and the memory of the ancestors.

Yup... i'm right!!! People eat com ruou for better digestion and looking to the sky, so that their eyes are better. Now I remember my cousin's family in Vietnam did put stuff on their altar on Tet Doan Ngo


Anyway, these are "festivals" not national holidays except for Tet..

I think tqt is being sacastic about not celebrating Tet. It's the most favorite Vietnamese holiday of the Year. I thinks he's wants to keep the Communist holidays of the Russians that have no meaning to the Viet people.

Vietnam is the only country in Asia that uses alphabets in everyday life like the Western world. Thanks to a French missionary in the 18th century by the name of Alexandre de Rhodes.

Here they are, just mix them up, and you'll speak Vietnamese before you know it:

A, Ă, Â, B, C, Đ, D, E, Ê, G, H, I, K, L, M, N, O, Ô, Ơ, P, Q, R, S, T, U, Ư, V, X, Y, Z

It's called "Chu Quoc Ngu" because all Vietnamese use it due to its simplicity by the alphabets. "Chu Quoc Ngu" increased literacy in Vietnam a lot compare to the old Chinese writtings or other forms of writtings.

Chu = Alphabets
Quoc Ngu = National Language

Something along that line, right?

Thanks????

Sorry, but its' ugly and doesn't reflect vietnamese culture at all..

"Vietnamese people are illiterate in their own country"... A normal Vietnamese wouldn't understand any inscriptions in the temples they go or historical documents kept in ho chi minh library.

I wouldn't call it illiterate in their own country. They just need to learn to read the old language. Do you think the Egyptians are illiterate in their own country? Do you think the Iraqis are illiterate in their own country? The Egyptians used hieroglyphics, the ancient Iraqis (Babylonians, Summerians, ect.) used cunniforms writting.

They just need to learn to read the old language! That's why we have translators around when you visit those museums.

Modern Egyptian and Iraqi are arguably not the same ancient egyptians and Summerian.

While Ancient Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean are the same.

Excuse me, are you telling me that we should use a script that is based on the Chinese pictogram to reflect the Vietnamese culture?



The Chinese, Korean, and Japanese were the same group of people but please do not include the Vietnamese in there.

and nom too... at least we did create Nom characters

Vietnamese culture has been influenced by Chinese greatly due to its 1000 years domination, and most of Vietnamese legal documents, poem after Vietnam independence are written in Chu Nho and Chu Nom with Vietnamese syntax.

Are you saying that the Iraqis are not the real Iraqis? The Egyptians are not the real Egyptians? Then why are they so proud of their civilizations?

Why would the Vietnamese use the old Chinese writing to reflect its culture? The Vietnamese have their own language, it's called "Chu Nom" derived by Nguyen Thuyen during the Tran dynasty in the 13th Century.

He didn't say that. He said Vietnamese shouldn't use a script a Frenchman imposed. Actually I thought it was a Portugese that came up with the script but was later modified by the French.

Chu nom is based on Chu Nho actually.


No Iraqi and Egyptians are proud of their history just like any westerns that conclude they're somehow related to Roman and Greek. Just a little bit more nationalism i guess.

yea it was portugese priest

I think it was an exellent change that Vietnamese used the alphabets, becuause it increased the country's literacy. Just like when the printing press was invented in Europe.

I can guarantee you that it was a French missionary, Alexandre de Rhodes.

There is a difference between Iraqis and Egyptians of modern days and the ancient ones.

Their civilization has ceased to continue for a very long time. They are still decendants of those civilizations but they don't carry on the civilization of Ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt. Same goes from Italians and Romans. The Roman Empire didn't even last that long.

The French didn't impose us to use that script. That script was invented to help boost the illiteracy rate of Vietnam. I can assure you that a 2nd-grade Vietnamese student can read and write 99% of the Vietnamese language after he/she finishes 2nd grade; one example is myself here. That tells you how effective this Vietnamese script is.

Then you mean literacy won't increase with Chu nho and chu nom??

Look at Taiwan and Hong Kong, not only they are using Hanzi but they are using traditional hanzi. Japan also used large proportion of Hanzi or Kanji in their system, and their literacy is about 99%.

It might implied that Vietnamese are stupid that they can't increase literacy with Chu Nho and Chu Han. VIETNAMESE PEOPLE ARE SMART


Able to read Vietnamese? Go here http://hanosoft.com/article/cxh.htm .. they compare Hanzi and Latin alphabet. Also discuss Hanzi role in Vietnamese.

Given that Vietnam has been an independent nation for a thousand years, quoc ngu has a surprisingly brief history. The system was developed by Portuguese Jesuit missionaries in the 18th century. The earliest extant dictionary using quoc ngu was the 'Dictionarium Annamiticum Lusitanum et Latinum', published by Alexandre de Rhodes in 1651. Rhodes, who was French, relied heavily on earlier Portuguese dictionaries in compiling his work.
http://cjvlang.info/Writing/writsys/writviet.html



Quoc ngu was largely neglected until the 19th century, when it was taken up by the French colonial government as a means of breaking the grip of Chinese culture and weaning the Vietnamese to Western ways of thinking. Despite its colonial background, the simplicity and ease of use of quoc ngu resulted in its gradual spread until it was finally chosen as the official Vietnamese script in the 20th century.

When it says 'taken up by the French colonial government' I think "imposed".

Look guys, I know that we have some misunderstandings here. But whatever language it is.

Chu Nom or Chu Nho is the classic form of writting, but the alphabets are so useful to us Vietnamese. Like tqt, I finished with Vietnam's education with a 1st grade, and I read and write Vietnamese like any Vietnamese in Vietnam.

I like both writtings though, they both represent Vietnam.

supernovasp,

I can tell that you try to promote Chu "Hang" upon the Vietnamese people there. I can assure you that no Vietnamese would ever want to go back to those Chinese-script days.

Btw, I forgot that you have Chinese blood running down your vein.


My message to Cao Xuan Hao, the author of that article of yours,

Tho^i ddi ma^'y o^ng cu. Nho lo^~i tho+`i

Yes there are

Welcome to Vien Viet Hoc

I love Classical Vietnamese poems even though i don't understand a lot of it.

Wow, you know Vietnamese history more than I thought you would.

Therefore you think Eastern culture is also "loi thoi", hence western culture is "dung thoi"?

Actually I'm trying my best to learn. It's pretyt easy to quote other people.

Do you know how long it would take for the Chinese students to read and right their language fluently? I know for sure it has to take more than 2nd grade.

6th grade actually. Also it would be cool if Vietnamese actually invented a script like Korean people. Sadly because our numerous dipthongs and tripthongs in language it's hard to make a new writing like Korean and Japanese did.

supernovasp,

Keep on dreaming about imposing Chinese script upon the Vietnamese people but i know for sure it will never happen.

never says never

Why bother introducing a new script? It just complicates things. Since everyone in Vietnam knows the current script then why introduce a new one? It'll just make people have to learn a new script and stuff.

Keep dreaming babe

btw, Vien Viet Hoc is one nasty organization. I despise them with passion.

well i didn't say that vietnamese needs to convert to a new script.

Just that it would be cool, if we actually invented a new easier script like korean and japanese harigana.

Studying Vietnamese is nasty??? lol

Again because most of classical vietnamese literature is written in Chu Nho and Chu Nom, Viethoc has to provide the original writing with Quoc Ngu "translation" in every poem.

They even have documents of Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu, and other historical documents translated in chu Quoc Ngu. What more can you ask?

It depends. Most people around 5-6th grade will know enough to use in life. You need to master 6000 Chinese characters to read a newspaper. This may seem like a disadvantage. But it is a proven fact that Chinese speakers utilize more areas of their brain. This means most people who learn Chinese have better memorization and are able to distinguish musical notes/tones much easier.

However, the CCP has introduced simplified Chinese that makes writing much more easy and also introduced Pin Yin which uses Latin alphabets to help westerners learn to pronounce Chinese using Chinese modified alphabets. Since its introduction, the Chinese literacy has soared well over 40%.