My specialty is to reveal to and educate the younger generation of ethnic vietnamese on the love/hate relationship between chinese/vietnamese.
It never ceases to amuse/bug me to observe that viet pride that displays in oh so many different ways.

One nationalistic teaching of vietnamese is to emphasize and exaggerate its distinction from the chinese neighbors/invaders/conquerors/(ancient enemies)/(wealthy business class people).
Ask your parents about their sentiment towards chinese.

We can commonly agree that viets are a part of Yuehs, and the fact that Viets can maintain a sense of separate identity from the Han chinese even after 1000 yrs of colonial rule is a testament to the resolution that the viet tribe has to maintain a sense of self, I fully acknowledge that.

But as I had said elsewhere in this forum, common sense understanding of history and human movement shows the viets cannot be as "unique" as whatever nationalistic education attempts to convey.
People move around, Han chinese moved south, mixed with Yuehs and Viets, integrated, and then developed a new identity.
Also the viets expanded and conquered/absorbed other tribes in its nation building process, so any emphasis on tribal uniqueness is to me pure exaggeration.

Attached below is a book review on "The birth of Vietnam" in amazon.com
The reviewer displays what I would call a typical nationalistic viet attitude towards chinese.
Read it for background understanding of the antagonism between viets and chinese.

If you're too young or too westernized to know much about this, ask your parents.
Viet/chinese antagonism is no simple laughing matter, it's at the core of viet identity.

Mind you though I fully aware that most chinese don't know or care too much of viet culture/history/identity/nationalism.
In fact many chinese do have a superiority complex when viewing vietnamese, and that attitude does bring out the worst of viet nationalism.
My apology on behalf of those arrogant chinese.

Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books


Begin quote:

1 of 4 people found the following review helpful:

To "Not really..." who's blinded by sheer ignorance, October 1, 2003
Reviewer: Less Ignorant than a fool (Vietnam) - See all my reviews
Your ignorance surprises me. You lack knowledge in almost all fields of Vietnamese history! People in VIETNAM resent Communist rule, Vietnam was at a much better economic (some might say at a boom) before the war started. China only supplied the knife which rammed into the hearts of the Vietnamese people. There's a reason why Vietnam today is moving farther and farther away from Communism and more and more towards Capitalism.
The native language of the Yueh tribe was not Cantonese. Your conclusion is once again a product of ingnorance. You are probably Chinese, and Cantonese. The Cantonese langauge can be translated to Yue, and the Cantonese can be identified as a group of people who has Yueh blood, but the Cantonese language was not the language of the Yueh. It's only a coincident that the Chinese language use the same word for the ancient people and the Cantonese langauge. The langauge and people have no connection, or very little connection at all. The southern Fukienese are actually more Yueh than the Cantonese are. The Yueh had their own ancient language, which was so different from what Cantonese is that it wouldn't be considered Cantonese. The Yueh spoke a language which was most likely the ancestor language of Vietnamese and, to an extent, Cantonese. But like Latin and it's descendents, French can't be called the language of the Romans, nor can Italian be. You're general lack in Vietnamese history, and general lack in logic, analytical and thinking skills astonishes me.
Vietnamese and Chinese are brothers, but the Yueh kingdom of Vietnam, of which the Vietnamese people are direct descendents from (recorded by Chinese and Vietnamese records if you ever have the urge to actually learn something), lived adjacent to the ancient Chinese kingdoms. Vietnamese nationalism is a show of loyalty to that original blood, not to what the Chinese gave us. If Vietnam was actually part of that original Chinese kingdom and broke off, then yes, we would be a derivative, but we didn't. We were separate, got conquered, then separated once again. We were a different entity, even during times of being conquered. The original Yueh tribe come from what is NOW southern China, but back then, that territory was neither Chinese nor did it belong to a Cantonese speaking ancestor. The area was originally occupied with only the Yueh and it's relatives, not the Han. If you even know what a Han is. If the Viets are Han, then we would be truly derived from the Chinese, but we are not, and even Chinese scholars admit we are descendents to the Yueh, and not the Han. The Yueh and Han fought constantly in ancient times, if you even bother to read anything at all.

And if you learn some Viet history, the Chinese has ALWAYS been our MOST HATED FOE. Since 2500 years ago when you first fought our people. This coming from a Viet, not a Chinese who wants to be Viet (an imposter you might say). Because if you were truly Vietnamese, this would've been a given. It does sicken me that the Vietnamese do hold racist views against the Chinese (which stems from the massacres and wars we had with eachother, which would make it understandable), but it is the truth, and any, and all, Viets would know this. So by just this, all i know is that you are not Vietnamese, and your ignorance of Vietnamese history can be justified. But because you opened your mouth on a subject you know nothing about astonishes me. Which gives you no justification at all. You remain an unintelligible wannabee who thinks he knows more than he really does. Who speaks without knowledge, nor with depth of thought.

I still don't get what you're saying..

Agreed...


Are you trying to tell Vietnamese people to hate Chinese people?

Keep reading and chewing.

There's this nationalistic teaching by viets to viets that makes viets potentially very resentful of chinese.
Are you aware of that?
If not, then like I said, quiz your parents.

Before 1975, when ethnic chinese were prospered in south vietnam and saigon, they were both loved and hated by vietnamese.

Loved: because they had wealth (desirable for marriage relationships), and chinese culture had an air of sophistication about it.

Hated: because they had wealth (they made money from the viets), and chinese culture could be too arrogant, and chinese had been viets' number one ancient enemies.

Once again. Are you trying to "teach" the younger Vietnamese generation to hate the Chinese people and to teach them that the Chinese are their enemies?

There are resentments everywhere in the world. Vietnam-China, China- Japan, China-Korea, Korea-Japan, Vietnam-Laos, vietnam-Cambodia, Vietnam-Thais, Vietnam-Japan etc. It's very natural, so...?

BTW, Chinese ethnics living in Vietnam people before 1975 were mostly merchants which is the lowest class in China and also Vietnam, Korea, Japan.

It seems weird, that ever since the Vietnaemse regulars left, there are always these new topics that are created with self-hatred or hatred of other races topics by new members with like 10 posts or something.

Also they seem to bump up year old threads as well.

Just a weird pattern I'm observing.

I am asking viet youths to be more objectively aware of their cultural background.
Viet nationalism is fundamentally very anti-chinese.

For those brought up in the "west", you may have observed this love/hate feelings viet people have towards chinese.
And if you're inquisite enough, you may wonder why such a sentiment.
And it's my purpose to reveal the origin and thinking behind such a sentiment.

ok.... Viet Pride. Haha

We, the Vietnamese forum veterans are much more smarter 2

So have more self-awareness, develop a introspection heart, may make you better, that's so.

Merchants were viewed upon as parasites.
But why were ethnic chinese merchants, do you know the history?
The french separated people into different classes, or created situations to channel people into different classes, to divide and conqueor.
Khmers were lowly labors, viets could be office clerks, and chinese the merchants, that was an agenda of the french colonialists.
I admit I'm impressed with their clever manipulation of human psychs.

Ok.. i have no idea where's this thread going..

Convoluted introspection is not your cup of tea, I see.

I don't know what that is, sorry. Stop using your thesaurus.

To IKnow,
Antagonism exists almost everywhere in East Asia: Japan-China, Japan-Korea, Korea-China, and Vietnam-China (I temporarily place Vietnam into East Asia category for convenience). People already knew it. It's an old thing on earth. But, I think you are just adding in another problem: the problem of renewing it, emphasizing it, and underlining it. Some people think their people are upper hand, their 'enemy' is under-dog. They try to renew the problem, bring it up not to solve it, but to enjoy some moment of 'being superiority' by imagining there would be some guy start to whine. Am I correct ?
You don't have to apologize for some other's arrogance. Arrogance is everywhere in East Asia, including Vietnam, not only in China. But wait, I guess some guys here don't think being arrogant is bad at all. Implicitly, saying "oh, I am sorry for being so arrogant of my people" is an implicit way of being arrogant. Only plain-brained people need that apology. Sophisticated people don't need it. Instead, they look at your intention as you bring up the problem.
I believe you are not young. Don't play that game here. Sincerely, I advise you to delete your post. Matured guys don't talk annoyingly.
Competent people will go on top, imcompetent people fall. Whinning will be ignored, and arrogance will pay some cost. Competent, incompetent, whinning, and arrogant people exists everywhere in every society. There are some in Vietnam, some in China, some in somewhere else.
I hope people will refrain from bad words.

I don't spread hatred between tribes, I encourage understanding.
When I said "viet nationalism is fundamentally very anti-chinese", can anyone honestly and intelligently say that i'm farting nonsense?
What I said is not sweet to listen to, but i'm spelling out some reality.
May I add: chinese are no angels either.
Just that from what I've observed, no other culture has a stronger intrinsic anti-chinese nationalism than vietnamese.
See the amazon.com post I mentioned at the beginning, and like I asid there, the worst side of viet nationalism is extremely antagonistic to chinese.

It really is like family feud, the interplay between love and hate really fascinates me.
Viets "love" chinese for many things, but equally display the same magnitude of antagonism.

LOL how about you should be aware of your own root first before you come here to teach us. Merchant being look down has nothing to do with the french or the vietnamese. It's has to do with our Confucianist root (influence from China for pete's sake). The four classes of Confucianism: the scholar, the peasants, the artisans, and the lowest of the low, the merchant.

Do you really know? or IDONTknow

See I already knew it. You said 'your are sorry for being arrogant from your people'. But I know in advance obviously you are one of those being arrogant yourself. The problem of that 'reality' is old and everywhere. But I surely know one thing: you are enjoying that 'reality'. :-)

IKnow, give both Chinese and Vietnamese some peace. :-)

YOu're right Preydominator, I don't think the French were aware enough about this belief to use it in their power management. Chinese were merchants only because they are good in it and it give them a lot of money

wtf r u saying... get the fuk out of the viet forum..... i grew up in the west n i still hate chinese... fuk off

LMAO VIETNAMEZ VZ CHINEZ
who carez, shake handz, ang wipe out all non azianz aaaaaaaahahahhah

that's cool.

Keep on hating, bro!

in Lt. Frank Drebin's voice "I love it! I love it"

peace, \/ !

There is huge mistrust between Vietnam and its neighbor China but that is perfectly understandable considering how much China can be a threat to Vietnam. The phobia is derivation of centuries of warfare and present intense competition for lands and resources. What you say is about the love-hate relationship between China and Vietnam is very true, and people should give up trying to approach this in a politically correct matter. Vietnamese and Chinese can be friends on personal and business level, but politically they are enemies.
The proximity of the two countries, the bad history, and Chinese revisionist nationalism and growing hegemony insures this.

Even China cannot escape from its phobias of other people like Japan, a smaller neighbor who conquered it. The row over the Japanese textbook is case-in-point with its street protest, violence, and vandalism under the auspice of the CCP. This example is not to make a judgement of whether these reactions were justified, but only to point out that Chinese themselves cannot escape the great fear and hatred of the "foreign devils."

Then's there's the row between Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Some Cambodian really hate Vietnamese because of the bad history.

There's bad blood between many people, but it doesn't mean it can't be overcomed through confidence building measures and globalization.
Even countries like France and Germany enemies for hundreds of years are now serious alliance partner. With Chinese-Vietnamese relationship, who knows how long it will take, but Southeast Asia continues to be peaceful and stable, the enimity might be bridged in due time. It really depends if China will keep its promise of a "peaceful rise to power." My Vietnamese instincts tells me no. 2

We welcome all Vietnamese comrades on behalf of CCP and PLA. It is no question that long history we share has make us inseperable brothers. Together we will become unstoppable alliance against these western and japanese germ that has spread. Our domination is inevitable and during the near future we should expand through warfare and direct annhilation, after my first campaign to reclaim Roc has complete. Domination and glory will be expected during the near future as shall we prosper our great nations.

what you say is scary. It reminds me of Hitler, HiroHito, Polpot and Kim Il Sung' speech.

Shut the fuk up ..... the history between vietnam and china has always been a 1 way invading policy from china.... so dun say that viet and ching are inseparable brothers.... not in another 1000 years do viet wanna be brothers with chinese... so why dun shut the fuk up and get the fuk out of viet forum...

I must say such inferior minds alike as you will be a prime example among the executed. You must understand those who do not wish to support our great nations and traitors, should be as classified alike our enemys. All comrades are encouraged to report suspects of enemy relations as you must know you will be rewarded.

Confucianism wasn't along in depising the merchant class and traders.

Money changers had long been condemned in the Bible and in europe before and during the middle ages. That's why most money changers were Jews, one of the legacy is, even today, most major banks are owned by Jews, although the stigma attached to money lenders and traders has long disappeared in both the east and the west.

Also Koran forbids charging interests on money. muslims use some weird scheme to get around it.

How about i line u and ur fu-ked up nation up and execute u all with ak 47s... fu-ken retard ching