Ogumo, from my historical sources ( Chinese), I've learned that one major cause for Japan's failure in World War II was that about 1.5 to 2 million Japanese army were trapped in China, unable to advance further nor get out. Which simply failed Japan's plan of "Defeating China in three months 三月亡華" What does Japanese side of the story say?

You're very much interested in negative topics relating China and Japan. Especially the mentioning of WWII and cultural stuff such as racism (Japanese and Chinese are considered the same race under most books of culture)

What's with that???

I have problems understanding how you relate this topic to racism.

I asked a question, and I'm looking for an intelligent answer.
Because of my lack of knowledge of Japanese language, I was seeking for whoever that can provide me information from Japanese perspective.

I'm talking in a general sense of your posts.

To me, he just seems to be interested in history, particularly history involving China and Japan.

Of course Chinese and Japanese are of the same race. There are only three catagorized races in the world, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Caucasoid. However, Chinese and Japanese are definitely not the same ethnic. Although Japanese culture was deeply influenced by Chinese culture especially during the Chinese Tang Dynasty (618 A.D. - 907 A.D.) Recently however, Japanese culture had some influence on Chinese culture, especially in Taiwan.

My general sense of my posts is to understand the relationship between China and Japan. In order to achieve a full understanding of this, I need different information from books, internet sources, and public opinions of different perspectives.

I was wondering on the aspect of his thinking.

Nothing more nothing less. I know of the decent of races and such.

I don't believe its that hard to understand. You're blantly asking people for ideas? What if some of these ideas are skewed??? Which is a huge chance might i add

No matter how "screwed" the ideas are, they are still opinions, which can somehow reflect the general trend of how people think.

Don't you know that emtional, illogical or "stupid" ideas can sometimes direct actions of groups of people?

I thought you were trying to derive the relation of japan and china. Not the psycological juxtapositions of people and their opinions.

Now you know I am not promoting hatred.

When did I say that? :genius:

I interpreted your statement that way, I'd apologize if it wasn't what you meant.

everybody please stay on topic. and i don't think that he's trying to start anything, just interested in the relationship between the two countries and quite frankly i am too.

The story is similar. The japanese armies began to fail because of the american interferance. The japanese could not bring the supplies to the army and it could not remove them. Also japanese industries were destroyed. There japanese people making guns and ammunition out of chinese pots and pans brass. Ultimately this lead to the japanese defeat in china. Not to mention the japanese were overly arrogant. So arrogant that they sent inexprienced pilets to china. Plenty were killed by the americans that went to defend china. The flying tigers. Only officially did the japanese plan to deafeat china in three months. This was only something said boost japanese confidence.

china heavily depends on japan in its economic development because chinese industries haven't had global competitiveness yet. china has to learn hard from japan at least over the next decade. therefore china has to care not to offend japan.

The major reason of result of the war is because of Midway, not because of troops trapped in mainland china.....

China may share an important trade partnership with Japan, but foreign investments fuel China's market and that just doesn't all come from Japan. The Chinese economy grows an average of 8% every year and China's GDP is already 5.7 trillion dollars. Japans GDP is only 3.7 trillion and Japan is in recession. Certainly Japanese technology is quite advanced but as they move more of their plants to China, China aquires this technology. Chinese will not seek to offend Japan for no reason unless Koizumi visits the military shrine honoring class A war criminals or illegally occupy Chinese islands.

This forum has just become twice as interesting.

Shoooo little girl... grown-ups are talking about history here. Go watch some anime or something.


What does this have to do with 2nd Sino-Japanese war?

I can't see what you mean by "China heavily depends on Japan for economic development." If you're referring to Japanese ODA, they're mostly loans with fixed interest rates. If you're referring to Japanese investment... pfsshh.. that's cuz everyone is investing in China right now. In fact, the last time I checked, South Korea invested more in China than Japan.

<<China may share an important trade partnership with Japan, but foreign investments fuel China's market and that just doesn't all come from Japan. >>

right, but don't you refute my words "china heavily depends on japan in its economic development because chinese industries haven't had global competitiveness yet "? right ?

<<The Chinese economy grows an average of 8% every year and China's GDP is already 5.7 trillion dollars. Japans GDP is only 3.7 trillion and Japan is in recession. >>

right, with china's ten times larger population than japan, there's no surprise. but do you ever know that "the second largest economy" means japan, not china ?

<<Certainly Japanese technology is quite advanced but as they move more of their plants to China, China aquires this technology.>>

yes, that's exactly what i mean. japan gives a chance for china to succeed. china has to appreciate it. china must not offend japan who cares for china. japan is now a knight on white horse for china.

<<Chinese will not seek to offend Japan for no reason unless Koizumi visits the military shrine honoring class A war criminals or illegally occupy Chinese islands.>>

i often hear this argument. but i don't get it. does it mean koizumi want to offend china ? no way. he seems to pray that japan will never repeat those wrongdoings.

regarding wwii, it happened half century ago. now japan assists china who's no competitive like a baby. it's now playing a mother's role for baby china. you must not kick your mother's face.

Infact if I am correct america invests the most in china at the current moment.

<<What does this have to do with 2nd Sino-Japanese war?>>

i was wondering why you like to discuss old stories half a century ago, ignoring the current that is most important.

<<I can't see what you mean by "China heavily depends on Japan for economic development." >>

everyone knows but you. china's growth is now fastes in the world. but is it achieved without japan ? no way. if china didn't have japan, it would have already been destroyed by its own people who were angry about incompetent government. china can remain valid only if it appreciates japan's help. no pet owner continues to feed if the pet bites the owner.

<<If you're referring to Japanese ODA, they're mostly loans with fixed interest rates. If you're referring to Japanese investment... pfsshh.. that's cuz everyone is investing in China right now.>>

you don't refute my argument, do you ? whether it's loan or not, it's a fact that china depends on japan in its development. without the kind neighbor, china remains poorest country of the world.

japan has been giving money and technologies to its poor neighbors. it's time for them to be grateful for japan. if not, they're just like street gangs.

<<In fact, the last time I checked, South Korea invested more in China than Japan. >>

i don't know what statistics you're refering to. but korea is another example of a country being assisted by japan.

anyway it's high time for you to consider those kindness and love of japan toward china. china is still like a baby dog and japan is the owner. when china does something out of gratitude for japan in the future, china and japan will be able to have real friendship. until then, japan is a father of china.

This anology is even worse. I thought I told you to find a better one: Now China is not longer the offspring of Japan but a dog, which is worse. Since you want to use these foolish anaologies, I will also use them. China can do great without Japan. Japan is a fox and China is a bear cub. The fox may have the advantage now and act friendly towards the bear cub to make up for past mistakes, but soon the bear cub will grow much stronger and powerful than the fox.

Japan fosters love and kindness to China? Then it wouldn't steal our islands. Also WW2 is a very relevant topic and it SHOULD be brought up as much as possible. Half a century ago is still very close and this must never be forgotten. The crimes the Japanese committed against Chinese and other Asians can never be repayed by Japan's so called 'love and kindness'. There will be no friendship with Japan if Japan treats China like a dog. Jack Wang, you seriously have to stop this Japanese supremecy.

Japan is not the father or mother of China, and Japan does not own China. I think you're forgetting where a lot of the writing, language, technology and high culture of ancient Japan originated. And China is hardly dependent on Japanese handouts; only about 16 percent of China's foreign trade is with Japan. I would personally prefer to see China and Japan cooperating and working together more, but not in a relationship stained with arrogant supremacism and haughty patronizing attitudes like yours. It's so pompous and thick-headed it's almost comical.

I have no problem with your post except the part about japanese "stealing" islands. I assume you refer to the sankaku. Japan did not steal that island. The americans gave japan control of it. If you have such a problem with the japanese controling the sankaku take it up with the americans because they are the ones that GAVE it to japan. Personally the sankaku only really has one value...

Japanese tended to be more superior to chinese. the reason is japanese are the smartest asian and they wup the chinese in the sino-japanese war. but if i'm sure the japanese descent from a warrior tribe that the chinese hated throught out china.

Americans had no right to "give" that island to the Japanese, Chinese or anyone in the first place. The U.S. is not above Japan or China like the federal government is above the state government. They are all independent soverign nations.



I'll let someone else respond to this supremacist comment...

I wouldn't even know where to begin.

...

buddy are you just making up stuff right now? because it really seems so.



If the chinese hated them, why didn't they exterminate them right there and then? Also, to my knowledge, china and japan have not been on unfriendly terms until the 20th century.



Wow seems like China really hated Japan because they took in Japanese students.

Btw, please research about what the hell you're talking about before you post.




All information was taken from :

"Japan." Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2001. © 1993-2000 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Thank you, Korn.

now now we are to promote peace not war. and also if japan and china went to war again, i guess japan will win. because the U.S military is japan army. and by the way china could not use a full invasion on the japanese due the blockade of US BattleShip and superior aircraft. but i don't know which side to pick one reason is That i highly respect the Chinese republic army and the government. and for japan, i like Japanese because they live in mountain terrean like us. plus there belief is much like or. and also i respect my American people and the military.

So help me chose the side to support friend!!!!!!

You're asking us to help you choose a side to support for a unlikely theoretical war?

choose China.

hahaha it seems so

Why would Japan win? And what is your definition of 'winning' (If China can't successfully invade the whole Japan, China loses?)?

You are saying the US will help Japan. But then it wouldn't be a war with China and Japan. It would then be a war with China vs. Japan and USA. So your initial theory of Japan winning China is flawed.

Some Chinese planes are much more advanced than American plans such as the J-10 and the Su-30 MKK (Russian built plane).

Chinese republic army? Are you referring to Taiwan's Republic of China Army? Mainland China's Army is called the PLA, People's Liberation Army.

I'm glad you like the Japanese for living on mountians like your people.

Guys.... Asian history and JackWang are both Japanese trolls on this forum. If their arrogance didn't give it away, their poor English and nonexistent historical knowledge should.

Actually asian_history is Hmong, or so he claims.

I was going to give you praise on the warrior comment...but then I read the rest of the post.... Tended to be superior? Explain that one. I do not think the japanese are the smartest. I think our intelligence is tied with chinese possibly. Even if japanese was the smartest group....would it matter? Honestly it ridiculous comments like yours that do not help relations. But you are not japanese. That is clear. You made some ridiculous comment that you like japanese because they have mountain like land...my guess is you are a korean perhaps? I have never heard a korean talk the way about japanese in the way you do. Infact you can be a black person for all I care....just end these ridiculous comments because they are not helping the current situation in anyway. If you love japanese that much you will stop spitting these ridiculous comments.

Man, why all the hate?

19th-20th century Imperial Japan was stupid. Plain and simple.

1930's Japan was hardly the peaceful government that the Meiji resortation orignally planned it to be. It was more akin to a military state with high ranking military officers holding public offices. The emperor on the throne, Taisho I believe, had at his command a pretty modern army. National pride was on the rise, especially after the victories of the Russian-Japanese war. This stemmed from the emperor-deification from the Meiji restoration. If my memory serves me right, Taisho ordered the annexation of Manchuria, then withdrew from the league of nations and ordered the full out attack on China.

I think the 2nd war failed due to a lack of resources obviously and over-arrogance of the Japanese military command. I doubt such a large area could ever fall within 3 months.

As for that douchebag saying that Japanese people are smarter than others, well hes just a douchebag. We arent all that smarter than anyone else. Its just a propagation of our environments. Any ethnicity can produce dumb and smart people. And if you are Japanese, then you have proved my point exactly.

In short the war failed due to isoroku yamamotos attack of pear harbor. That brought the americans and they crippled japans resources. The war would have been a success if that did not happen.

but japan couldnt prevent from american nuking japan, even if americans failed to cripple japanese resources.

Argueable. The japanese had modified and improved the german jets they had received from hitler. Most of them were in the final stage of being complete. They would have been able to attack B-29 bomber. But by that point it was too late and did not matter.

wow, i am learning from so many different angles.

this is a great topic!

The allies were planning a d-day type offensive onto the main Japanese islands. There was nothing Japan could have done to stop this offensive except to slow it down thru attrition. This was why the Emperor had women and children trained for combat. A major reason for the use of the atomic bomb on Japan was because the American high command knew about this as well. The bomb was developed for use in the Atlantic theatre but with Germany surrendering in May before the completion of the bomb in July, they continued on development because they were weary of the high costs in life of a conventional invasion of Japan.

To paraphrase the Dr. J. Oppenheimer, the Chairman of the Manhattan project, he said that the atomic bomb would have been the lesser of two evils. That a conventional invasion of Japan would cost much more deaths each on both sides than the detonation of the bomb. The validity of this statement can be debated. But looking at how determined the people of Imperial Japan were to resist invasion, and the American tactic of human wave warfare. Even the extreme estimation of three hundred thousand Japanese killed in the bomb attacks would have paled in comparison to what may have been. Please understand that I am against the use of Atomic weapons on any human life but am trying to see this in a subjective view, as the committee of the Manhattan project would have seen it when weighing the numbers of acceptable casualties in American life.

And about the Japanese being able to intercept the B-29, I dont think that would have been the case. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were left alone by the Americans in their bombing raids on Japan. Reason? Those two cities were not extremely important industrial, reseach or military centres. But they had a high population and the Americans needed sites to test the effectiveness of a nuke on an undamaged city. So, seeing that Hiroshima and Nagasaki left undamaged early on in the bombing raids of Japan, the Imperial Air Force pretty much left them alone. Think about it, a single bomber, without escorts flew over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Ogumo: The Japanese did receive some advanced fighters from Nazi Germany. And I agree, even the Luftwafe were not able to turn the war even with entire wings of such fighters. Also, by that time, the Imperial Air force had pretty much lost all of its experienced pilots at battle.

Sources: These are excerpted from my professors lecture notes on WWII. He has a book out too that he refers to. Dunno the name but I'll get them out if you want.

and don't forget that japanese was losing against the advancing soviets from north.

hmm about china having more advanced planes? uh... i hate to break your bubble but umm.. have you checked out the US's current X-41? it's a small one man fighter capable of extremely high atmospheric flight. it canm even reach satelites orbiting around the planet. it uses a newly developed engine called the scramjet and it basically functions as a vaccum pulling air through intakes and pushing it out. the engine has no moving parts at all. so no turbo fans. the X-41 will be capable of speeds up to 17,000 mph outside of the atmosphere. so it could easily intercept a ICBM. it will be armed with air to air, air to ground, space to surface and space to space weapons and also equipped with one laser. most of the info about it is classiffied and they won't even display pictures of it yet. obviously it's being built in area 51, nevada (where all high tech expiremental air craft air built) that is a major reason why the USA is retiring the space shuttle. it's too out dated and rocket perpulsion is a thing of the past, basically like how jets replaced props. until those are ready for active service we have the redeveloped f-22 raptor and the f-35 jsf coming into play. both planes have a complex graphite skin making it very difficult for laser guided missiles or weapons to lock on to it. so that would mean an enemy craft would have to use it's cannons on it..and the f-22 and 35 are virtually stealth by design.


anyways.. the people living in japan today had nothing to do with the badness they're previous people did. so for china to sit there and get mad at japan now is just really immature. i don't think most chinese even really care..but the ones who do are usually the most popular..so the ones not wanting to start problems become the unseen. japanese technology is superior to chinese but that doesn't really matter. (china just recently got their first man in space.............) the only reason japan's technology is superior is because they are not communist. communism like it or not in my own opinion tends to reduce the amount of independent thinking for more control. also, what's with this "i'm a proud chinese" stuff? that's those people who say "i'm proud to be american" oh wow you're proud to have a title, i see. but that title isn't who you are. take away your nationality and you will still be yourself. when we get things like nationlism and "patriotism" it causes problems because people often tend to think they are better than someone else which leads to racism and racism leads to violence. in order to restore humanity we must understand no one is better or worse than the other. because as i said in a previous post...there are good people in every country and bad people in every country. so you cannot catagorize one country as being bad or good or you, yourself have become racist or prejudice. maybe some of you are too close minded to understand this..but if i'm only 17 years old and i figured it out then anyone else can too.

So if Japanese soldiers raped and killed your grandmother/relatives, didn't compensate after the war was over and tried to hide the issue for 60 years - you not only wouldn't get mad, you'd consider yourself immature?


If every 17 year old was a wise as you, there would have been peace on earth before the first civilizations began.

well..my great uncle was tortured by the japanese when he was over there during ww2 they did some really gross things to him.. but it wasn't the japanese people who did it. it was just a bunch of sick people. now i know what the japanese did to china was wrong. but the hating and blaming has to stop somewhere. the usa forgave japan for attacking us when they said they were our friends and they forgave us for dropping the bombs on them. history should never be forgotten..but it should be forgiven...

who are "us" ? are you referring to the U.S.? or "us americans" or "us Chinese"?
I have no problem forgiving Japanese, as long as they apologize and acknowledge their crimes.
damn, i've been stating the same thing, and kids here are just responding with their same old american philosophy too.

The only problem I see is, how can you forgive someone who hasn't apologized or even offcially admitted their wrongdoings and instead, they try to hide the truth from their future generation?

I can't speak for the whole Chinese population but I know my family and I have no negative feelings toward the current generation of Japanese and those who didn't actually participate in the crimes. However, the Japanese government is still responsible for its people's actions, past or present. Which is why the Japanese government needs to officially apologize and start revealing the truth to their youths about what their ancestors did.