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I did the scroll down and this is what I got :



2 I didn't knoe VN have welfare program (government helps) installed now 2 millions people that still live in VN probably didn't knoe this either 2 hey ... how did she gets government helps would u plz tell us so we can tell millions of people that still live in poverty in VN 2 2 2

-bncat

in VN they also covered all of your hospital bill.

Maybe if you were tortured and raped and suffered like her you'll get a little of the gov't money too.

mother fu-cker thinks its funny ....

fu-k... I was reading the My Lai Massacare by the Yanks... i swear i wouild rip their heart out for those who cowardly and cold heartedly killed women and children... and the torture suffered by ordinary Viets during the war is so horrific and so disgusting... fu-kEN YANK..... THEY SHOULD ALL B HANGED DU ma may thang MY.. dung la khong phai con nguoi...

its horrible. BTW the one sign is in korean, not japanese.

Americas Lies for support for the war in Iraq are now paying off with about 8 European countries Withdrawing from Iraq By the end of this Year. One day America will have no support from europe because of Lies and deciept. It was americas Obligation to to Severly punish those soldiers But it chose not to. And that sums it all up really...They dont care about anything but themselves. Not a Dig at american people just your Government, and the ones that went before. Take solice in knowing if there is a heaven and a hell Then the winter soldiers and Governments will be burning for a long time. Bncat you think rape and torture is funny??

If you don't understand my whole post don't criticize . Heooooooooooo no I don't consider torture funny at all... all I'm saying is that there's two sides to a coin ... to proven US's evil doesn't mean you can idolize what the VNese communist doing is all good and perfect 2 . Yah I've read about My Lai's Massacare (which you can find practically everywhere on the net or in the history books in VN ... but I've also read about the After the War that you can only get from outside sources .

What I find funny is that I've never read about or heard of VN government now have welfare system installed 2 . I've been back to VN for a visit in 2002 and I've been unfortunately enuf to see the inside of a hospital in SaiGon that leave people bleed to dead because they didn't have enuf money on hand to shove it at the docs . Maybe the Communist in VN've change for the past three year but ... 2 looking at the rate of their offspring under the pretense of study aboard and end up didn't want to go back ... I don't think so . So heooooooo yeah I find this one-side slippery slope arguement to be funny 2

-bncat

Bncat Its not a one side argument as you Quoted saying In your opening "There are two sides to a coin" america Being the more Brutal.

In vietnam Now the Only people to be awarded Finacial help are people of Northen Blood. A woman In the District of Cu Chi who lost her Husband and 9 Children to american Soldiers is considered a Martyr and is Finacially secure, where as a woman of southern Blood would have Recieved no help. The sad thing is Its Unification of the 30th of April 1975 to 2005 and still 30 years on the south are worst off.


Going back to war and treatment of Civillians, all american soldiers were given a card with 9 rules to abide by on how to treat vietnamese both allied and enemy, America did not abide by the rules as was portrayed by the media and eye witness accounts, My lai was not the only Incident and the press coverge of that story made american support for the war dwindle, enter americas new policy of controlling the press in new wars to hush hush. Where are those Weapons of Mass Destruction ?? well most of the WMD,s were responsible for my lai and nazi death camps, But now peddle Dope & Oil. The VC Regime Is Well a Fraction Compared to America. USA Will Never finish the job Because it keeps China stable and economic growth which benefits America so thats the reason talk about a leapard changing its spots hey. JFK The best President of all time Funny how he was assasinated so close to Vietnam war maybe People in the war cabinet didnt want him to stop Vietnam like he did with cuba. Still I admire the Vietnamese they can forgive What the americans did I cant and never will. Regards Simon.
PS as for Idolizing That war I think that its the Americans who Idolise that turning out countless numbers of one sided films Portraying poor hard done by american men No one forced them to go they chose to kill and rape and murder babies of their own free will.

she had health care because she helped the communist and look what the Americans had done to her ?? of couse now Vietnam is in peace , those fu-ckers wouldnt give health care to the people .... geez , u cant even understand that man ??

I applaud you for looking at the issue critically. The Vietnam War was not black and white...there's no easy answer...and anyone who tries to frame it as a black and white is delusional, communist, brainwashed or simply stupid.

And for these doubters, like you said, all you need to do is take a trip back to Vietnam. So many damn idiots here glorify the communists govt; yet would they be willing to go back to communist Vietnam and live like regular Vietnamese under the heels of totalitarianism?

I would !!! Life is not that bad in Vietnam 2

I wonder if your parents hold any official position in VN.

I will go back to Vietnam because it is bad but there still are valuable people who need care and consideration in this society ruled by money and power at every scale. Healthy persons don't need physicians.

Nah, my parents are business people 2 They have nothing to do with the Vietnamese government.

Vietnam is not a rich country, that i agree but it is definitely not as poor as hell like some people may think. I have been to many parts of the country and saw all kinds of people: poor, rich, crooks... almost anybody ... That doesn't mean anything, even in a country like Canada, you still see homeless people asking for money on the street.

You shouldn't draw conclusions just from reading a few unreliable sources from the internet. I mean, get a ticket and fly back to Vietnam. You will realize that stuff on the internet is bull$hit. Not all of them are right. Some of them were made to mesmerize people in the first place. The intention of people who came up with crap such as " Vietnam has no freedom of religion .. blah .. blah" was to lead the public's thoughts in the wrong direction. Hanoi, Hue, Saigon, Can Tho, Ca Mau, Phu Quoc ... etc.. i have been to all of those places. In every place i visited, i saw people going to church, temples.. without any troubles at all. I'm a buddhist myself and i also have many friends who are Christians 2

There's a Vietnamese proverb " Trăm nghe không bằng một thấy" , which basically means " It's better to see something with your own eyes than hearing it from somebody else" . Take a trip to back to Vietnam, if you found any of my words were lies, you could hang me up I wouldn't say a thing

Believe me, you know nothing related to religion affairs. It is not because there are people at church that there is freedom ( in the same manner, it is not because there are a lot of people at the bakery that everyone can eat as much as they want).

I also went to Can tho, Hue, Saigon, Ha noi, Nha Trang, Dalat, Vinh, Nam dinh, Pha't Diê.m, Buôn Mê Thuô.t ... and I have stopped by a small village somewhere between Huê' and Vinh:

The priest was imprisonned for 10 years, he was released nearly blind at 65 years old, he called for a young assistant to help him build a class room for village's children. His assistant was denied the right to come here. the village was so poor that the priest had to go to China to buy potatoes semen because villagers hadn't enough rice for eating, they fell back on potatoes because it is more productive.

Did you know that a catholic cannot enter the comm party and hold any official position ?

In Europe,Japan, Indonesia. USA, AUstralia ... catholic clerics are appointed with no need of approval from the government, and they can hold duty whereever they want. It is not the case in Vietnam: the VN government wants to decide for catholics, .

I don't know much as for buddhist but if you were an insider worshipper, you would know the situation is not bright either, actually you don't !

You may have travelled a lot in VN but you never spend time in a centralvillage for sure.

In Canada, no one dies of starvation, mist of homeless people have choosen that way of life. If you want to know what poverty is , you should visit villagers in Central highlands and coastal villages ! People there are forced to live in poverty, not to mention these so called officials who drive in luxurious Western cars.

2 A lof of people seems to be proud of what the Vietnamese communist party is doing in VN right now ... let me shows you some pictures of what it was like back in the 60s :

SaiGon 1962


SaiGon 1964


SaiGon 1968


For those of you that have been back there ANDDDDDDDD those of you that still live there, is SG any better than what it once was 2

-bncat

um sorry but where did u get all the informations that a lot of people here are proud of what communist are doing for Vietnam ??

it depends on what side you're fighting on.

It's amazed me to see some ppl keep showing the pics from back in 50's and 60's and say how rich south vn was.

First of all, you stupid arse...

VN was rich because the blood money from the US.

In the 50's the money went from US to France then the leftover went to the collaborator arse kissers in the South. In the 60's the money went from US to US Millitary and to the new and improved collaborator arse kissers in the South.

Without the Communist pressure, do you really think the US would spent 30 Billion dollars per year? Let's face it, the biggest money maker in VN during that time was the industry to kill VN ppl. As you can see when the US lost interest in killing VN ppl and stoped the flow of money, the south VN govt collapsed and ceased to exist. Most of south VN high officers showed their true color "yellow", saved their arse and left the ppl to fend for themself.

You can still find some of those "yellow" officers in CA, TX, VA and some other part of the world. You can recognize them by the BS they weave about themself, how heroic they were and how they tried to fend the freedom of VN ppl. In reality they just hate the fact that there are No more privileges. They have to work like everybody else to make money. A reallity check for them... south VN was never democratic. During its existence, it was either under millitary junta or dictatorship.

The only ppl who belive them are their children and some FOB ppl who just want economic prosperity.

If you are in US and hate the communist in VN, just yell at the ppl you see waving the "yellow flag of me love you long time and do sucki sucki" of south VN. They the one lost the country... dispite all the money and modern weapons the US gave them. How in the world did the "rich... heavily armed... highly educated... the gifted... the superior intellect... the me better than you... holier-than-thou" ppl ever lose the war to bunch of poor peasants? It's inconceivable.

If you are in US and hate the communist in VN, don't bother talking to the communist dogs in VN righ now. They are not listening. Let me rephrase that... They don't give FLYING F**K what you think about them. They are to busy improving the country at their own pace.

If you are in US and hate the communist in VN, just close your eyes and swallow... make sure your kids learn Spanish, 'cause in 1 or 2 generations they need to know it. In 2 generation, ppl will call you kids "chinese" and you kids will tell ppl that they're mix "asian".

oops... i'm thinking aloud again. darn!!!

oh well... let me think some more.

oh... one more... I hate the current govt in VN... I don't know why VN not a World Super Power right now? And why don't VN have a space ship right now?... I wish we can go to the moon right now... I hate you guys in Hanoi.

one more.... WTF.... what's wrong the all those cardinals... I think they bunch of racist... why don't they chose Jean-Baptiste Pham Minh Man as the bishop of Rome (Pope to all of you heathen). I'm going to complain to the priest here. I think there were a conspiracy in the church not to elect a viet.

i thought a viet was suppose to be a pope
but somehow he died???

I have been back to Vietnam recently...it not as picturesque as you present it. Child labor, corruption on every level of society, prostitutes, greasy crooks and bastardly govt officials looking for handouts. Even when you get off the airplane you're greeted by corrupt officials demanding bribes or else they'll hold you up at the airport. They racial profile Vietnamese while they let Westerners go about their business.

The people are great and I love the country, but the problems are there; it's just whether you choose to recognize it or not.

You also said you wouldn't mind living in vietnam as poor regular citizen? So why the hell are you in Canada? Go live under the communists. Have you ever gone to Vietnam as anything other than tourist with money? I live in that country for a decade...don't bull$hit me.

I will agree that people should go back for themselves and judge. Don't take my word for it.

BCat I never seen picture of Saigon prior to the communists. We look even more modern then we do today. Today, Saigon is full of motor scotters...only the center of the city look decent...and worst the communists have made it a policy to shift most of the spending to Hanoi so that many run-down part of Saigon are not being improved. Sad that even within 3 decades of peace the communists could not accomplish what South Vietnam have accomplished even in times of war. No wonder so many people even today hold onto the memory of South Vietnam. The other alternative would be to accept the vision of proverty and corruption that the communists are responsible for.

You mean to say: "Sad that even within 3 decades of war with all it's neighbours and a bigger embargo than cuba, the commies couldn't accomplish what AMERICA accomplished in times of war."

^^^

Former South VN regime have accomplished

What exactly did they accomplished ?? I didn't know corruption, being a puppet, arse kissing and being yellow was such an accomplishment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/vietnamese/programmes...wk14_2005.shtml

I'm gonna go back to Vietnam as soon as i finish my study here in Canada. For all that commie thing, let's just say everybody has their own set of beliefs alright ??? You go your way, i go my way, nobody is blocking each other. Mark my word for this, everything in Vietnam will change in the next 30 years In a positive way, i mean

And also, i was born and raised in Vietnam man 2 I khow what i'm talking about 2



Thanks Supernovasp, that interview is really helpful Like Prof. Mai Kim Đỉnh said: " Thực sự ra chúng ta không thể quay ngược cái dòng lịch sử. Thực sự ra, trước hay sau năm 75 không còn quan trọng nữa. Vấn đề là cái vị trí của Việt Nam trong cái hành trang để hội nhập, hoà nhập vào cuộc chơi của toàn cầu"

Let's put all the hatred and the bitter past aside to build a strong Vietnam

ALL for VIỆT NAM !!!!!!!

To i_soro: I fear you're wrong on this point. Because if a Viet were elected as a pope, what would think the other people in the world ? You must know that there are only 8 milions cathoilics in VN.

About Vietnam economy before 1975, however corrupt is was, the economy was healthier than now because of free business laws, and even communist economist s have acknowledged it, listen to the interview in the link given by SUPERNOVASP.

TO kenjishinoda (I wonder why you have choosen this japanese nickname): Indeed, we must move forward but justice must be done for all those who were put in jail or executed after 1975, for all those who where deported to "Kinh tế mới", for all those who died in "trại cải tạo". For all those who died of starvation during the "ngăn cầu cấm chợ" period (1975-1983)...FOr all those who have their houses confiscated by the communists, for all the victims of forced collectivisation and land reforms...Only then we depart on trong basis.

You say everyone has the right to have his own set of beliefs, I agree. But what happen if a minority impose its beliefs on others ? In Europe, communist are a minority, they aren't prohibited. Communists can live and express their idea even if they don't hold a power. In France, they can even benefit from state allowance in case of significant results in polls. Because it is true democracy.


No one can swear out that it is possible to run a thousands dollars business without provisioning about 25% of the investment fot briberies !!!


I discussed with a relative who set up a manufacturing business in Bến Tre: at the beginning of the business, things were quite easy, no major problem in registering the business , but 3 months after hte business got into operations, officials began paying her visit, from Xã upto Tỉnh level. Everyone wanted her to pay them for bia ôm, grafts, tuition fees for their children, a few demanded her to recruit their unqualified relatives with good salary whereas she didn't need any workforce more. 6 months after, her business went out because of delays created in deliveries of manufacturing equipement she ordered and indeliveries of permit to build a concrete road in front of the worshop. Why ? She refused to pay graft, so the officials executed their threats...

I was also born and grew up in Vietnam, it doesn't prevent me from being fair without bias in my judgment regarding VN. And above all, I fortunately always bear this sense of equity and justice inside me.