As a Japanese, I understand the variety of Chinese opinions. They sound all natural to me: both the feelings about the Japanese aggression in the last century and the advanced technology of Japan for you to catch up. I hope my argument help you think about Japan (or China?) today.

If you talk about history, we have been neighbors for two thousand years or possibly more. China had been a superpower in Asia, and we communicated happily in most of the times. (China tried to militarily invade Japan only once.)

And then Europeans including Russians and Americans came to change our history. Many Asian countries became their colonies. Japan didn't, and then started to behave as another colonialist country, very harsh. I think Japan as a nation was so tense and frantic at those days as a developing country, feeling the threat from Western colonialist countries (as you might now feel the threat from the US). I guess that some Japanese remember the stressful pressure from the Western coutries more strongly than the hardships they gave to the Chinese. They want to condemn the Western colonialist countries before they apologize themselves.

I know the history in 1930's as you describe. Do not misunderstand that Japanese do not want to apologize. Emperors and the ministers have formally apologized and economically helped China.

I want you realize that Japan essentially changed after the war. Forgetting about the war, we became frantic about living. We had to live, and worked hard, probably just like you in the present-day China.

Your economy is growing rapidly, and our economies are not separable now. You are buying a lot from Japan, and we buy a lot from you (to the extent that boycotting of goods is meaningless). With the present pace, we Japanese all know that you will soon catch up Japan and China will become the only superpower of Asia, like the historical days, again.
If the politicians want to visit Yasukuni shrine (I am against it), and school textbooks are apparently not eagerly apologizing the neighboring countries, please do not take it too seriously. We are no more a colonialist country, and we want to make friends with the neighbors. The most important is to trust each other, and solve controversial problems by taking time if necessary.

(I am not accustomed to the homepage here, and apologize for any failures beforehand for that.)

KappNets

If only this world has more Chinese and Japanese people like you.. people who can understand this situation
and i completely agree with your ideas...

I totally agree with you.
We are leaving in a World where there are too much dispute.
All Chinese and Japanese people should realize that they are stronger together, as partners and friends... We should all forget about past disputes, and focus on the present and future times.

But I believe that not everybody agrees, and unfortunately, some think too much about the past... I hope that the current dispute will not get worse.

You are wasting your time KappNets.

If only he was the Japanese president.

For what purpose are you saying "那个日本鬼子" on your signature?
Literally translated, it stands for "this one j@p beast."
Explain it clealy.

--------------------------------------
Please refer to all my posts.

eh, are you sure you didn't read it wrong? I thought it meant that j@p devil, but whatever, i don't see a problem

Yeah it pretty much fits his personality and statements he makes on here. 2

It is easy to pretend to be someone else who you really are NOT on the Internet. There always exist people who are in a safe location and/or a position working on putting fire on and encourage a fight of others on purpose.

I don't think "intelligent" Chinese and Koreans STILL carry signatures of national prides and patriotic fervor in a place of personal opinion and views.

I'm now interested in people who wants to insult the Japanese, reasons, and motives.

i disagree, i always find that ogumo tried to find mututal understanding, but obviousily he has given up...... got to say you cant blame him.......

ATLEAST HE TRIED.

What kind of mutual understanding will be generated from a black guy saying “this one j@p beast” in Chinese?
Understanding between who and who?

Internet propaganda has been carried out widely and any nationalities can be the target especially in a disorganized international forum like this one.

Watch out.

ogumo black??? i dont know, i always thought that he a japanese american.

I have been in the forums a few months back, and he is very mutual IMO. Also i ahve seen my share of chinese rappers (assholes in my IMO) that call themselves chineses.

The path to mutual understanding can only be opened by the Chinese. The Japanese have been consenting to China since the opening up of diplomatic relations. This is evidenced by Japan's PMs repeatedly apologizing to Chinese chairmen at the opening of every summit meeting. Japan's media in China is controlled by the Chinese government. China deports Japanese reporters who report anything bad about China. China needs to relax these restrictions on freedom of speech. China needs to teach its own history properly and stop their anti-Japanese education. China needs to allow Japan to enforce its internationally recognized borders. China needs to stop sending spy planes and submarines into our waters. China needs to take down the huge 300,000 victims sign at the Nanking Massacre because no specialist believes that ridiculous number. China needs to supress their riots and make the country more hospitable to the Japanese. China needs to relax their regulations of Japanese business. China needs to stop using Japan's ODA to finance their military.

Japan-China relations can only be helped by the Chinese compliance with a few basic ethics. Japan has been trying furiously to ameliorate the tensions but China does not comply. The road to mutual understanding can only come from China now.

I'll ignore the stuff we've already disagreed on and quote this section that I do agree with.



To be fair, Japan has made alot of the running recently and it would be good to see the Chinese politicians at least awknowledging the efforts Japan has made and begin constructive talks.

[quote=khu91x,Apr 18 2005, 09:55 PM][quote=Red_AlertZ,Apr 18 2005, 09:43 PM]eh, are you sure you didn't read it wrong? I thought it meant that j@p devil, but whatever, i don't see a problem

[/quote]

Yeah it pretty much fits his personality and statements he makes on here. 2

[/quote]

You said it best.

Ducky:

Thank you for translating that for me. Certainly I couldn't have known what I put in my own signature.

Bchung:
[quote]ogumo black???[/quote]




Didn't you know??? Ducky knew it in just 15 posts. Why couldn't you?


Meatball:

[QUOTE]The path to mutual understanding can only be opened by the Chinese.[/QUOTE] Wrong. Both countries have to put an equal effort. It will not work otherwise I assure you.

[QUOTE]The Japanese have been consenting to China since the opening up of diplomatic relations. [/QUOTE]
This should be stopped.

[QUOTE]is evidenced by Japan's PMs repeatedly apologizing to Chinese chairmen at the opening of every summit meeting.[/QUOTE]

This should also be stopped. One last formal appology to all the asian and pacific nations that were wronged should be made and made the way they want it to be.

[QUOTE]Japan's media in China is controlled by the Chinese government.[/QUOTE]
For that reason alone japan should pull it's media right out of china.

[QUOTE]China deports Japanese reporters who report anything bad about China.[/QUOTE]

I heard something about years ago but I don't know if it's still practiced. I wouldn't put it past the chinese. Perhaps you have evidence of this? It would be more than helpful.

[QUOTE]China needs to relax these restrictions on freedom of speech.[/QUOTE]
Meh. I am not one that feels the need to tell the chinese how to behave in their own nation. I feel that japan should enforce more restrictions on it's own freedom of speech.

[QUOTE]China needs to teach its own history properly and stop their anti-Japanese education.[/QUOTE]

Or perhaps japan should just start it's own anti china/usa/rok/dprk education? Either would be fine with me.

[QUOTE]China needs to allow Japan to enforce its internationally recognized borders. [/QUOTE]
Sure. Or japan should just rebuild the army and enforce it's boarders. Same result.


[QUOTE]China needs to stop sending spy planes and submarines into our waters.[/QUOTE]

Japan needs to stop letting these spy planes and submarines enter or escape our waters. Issue one warning to each neighboring country to keep it's weapons out or have them destroyed. Same result. I actually prefer the second one myself.

[QUOTE]China needs to supress their riots and make the country more hospitable to the Japanese. [/QUOTE]

Or perhaps japan needs to focus on the riots and china's true spirit and let the japanese public take it in.

[QUOTE]China needs to relax their regulations of Japanese business.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe we should just become stricter with their buisness? Or find another market.

[QUOTE]China needs to stop using Japan's ODA to finance their military.[/QUOTE]

They can use the oda in whatever way they want. It is japan that keeps giving. Japan needs to stop all aid to outside nations (each and every. Also the UN) and use it to finance our military.

[QUOTE]Japan-China relations can only be helped by the Chinese compliance with a few basic ethics. [/QUOTE]

Or we can let it go and deal with china as little as possible. The chinese arent going to do anything as long as there are japanese that want the chinese to take responsibility for making the changes happen. We have to help them along.

[QUOTE]Japan has been trying furiously to ameliorate the tensions but China does not comply.[/QUOTE]

One solution. End it all. Let the tensions mount on our side. If china does not comply? Why the hell should we? Youve yet to see my point. No real reason to get upset with them. Just do the same.

[QUOTE]The road to mutual understanding can only come from China now[/QUOTE]

I agree. Though that isnt the only option. Japan could completely castrate itself. Or take it upon ourselves and deal with the chinese and the koreans the way they deal with us. Which would you prefer meatball?

Now, I think Ogumo is a bit extreme.

Fighting China's fire with fire is only going to exacerbate the situation.

We should politely ask the Chinese to stop using our ODA on military expenditure. We shouldn't just cut off ODA. Maybe we can slightly lessen it. China did stubbornly say that they weren't thankful for our ODA last year.

We shouldn't fall down to their level and start teaching wrong, biased history. Japan should continue to push for a more democratic, free-speech, method of teaching history. Japanese students need to develop pride, and if they just knew of their whole 2000+ year old history, I think naturally, Japanese would begin to wonder why the story that China puts forth just seems like an immense tangent in Japanese history.

Japan should discuss its problems with China and put these problems forth in the international community. Not enough third party countries are dealing with or are even knowledgable on the situation. If we can plead to the international community, we may be able to help China develop into a more civilized nation.

We are in an extreme situation meatball. It will take extreme measures to stop it.



While letting them go without retaliation will only invite more negative behavior from them.



Hahahaha. The most ridiculous thing that I have heard this week. The only answer is not to give it to them at all.



Yes and they will just use slightly less on their arms.



More than enough reason why to cut it.



Yes yes. History aside. One question meatball. Do you truly believe democracy is the proper government for the japanese people? Do you think that it is the most effective government for our people?




Yes because the chinese are uncivilized. Give me a break. They may do uncivilized things but all groups are guilty of this meatball. Japan needs to focus on making japan stronger. Not helping anyone else.

When the two major political parties are ones that people don't really want to vote for but are stuck with because of the democratic system? Have the same problem in Britain and to a certain extent, America.

I think cutting the ODA would only provoke China even more and result in increasing tensions between the two. Probably not a great idea.

Probably not a great idea.

Well it's certainly one that I would agree with.

In principle, I agree with you too.

Okay, maybe cutting off ODA would be a good idea. However, I fear the consequences....

And will you stop calling me "meatball"? You're stooping down to some of the people on this board's level. Calling me "meatball" does not make you sound intelligent and lessens the impact of what you're saying.

When I said civilized, I did not mean the people. I meant the structure of their government and the society in China. In a civil, orderly society, the people are obeying the law, the law is enforced by police, etc. In China right now, society is in chaos. People are heading out into the streets attacking Japanese people, destroying property, burning flags.... This is not civilized. The police needs to enforce the laws there for there to be order.

Maybe "civilized" was a bad word. I used it as a synonym for "orderly" but I guess it has different connotations?

Well, I believe that democracy is the best form of government for ANY people. There is no such country where all the people are of the same background and race and have the same opinion. Democracy pools together the opinions of all and tries to come up with a good solution to help dire situations. Japan does need a stronger leader, but pushing Japan right is not going to solve anything.

We need to educate our people on our own history better so that they do not succumb to Chinese propaganda. We need to make the people more interested in politics so they don't watch tv and do nothing when Japan is in danger. We do not want die-hard irrational nationalists to be born in Japan like in China. We want educated, rational, peaceful, calm thinkers. Fighting fire with fire is the worst tactic. They have nukes....

I agree. Having an alternative view is healthy. I wish you best of luck to your research and commitment into this area of study.

Every country has its own method of feeding propaganda to its peoples, even Democratic nations. What makes you think that "your" version of Japanese propaganda is better than Chinese propaganda? Trade one tyrant for another?

Yes, many people can say the textbooks in Japan. However, the persons who are swaying Japanese textbooks is not the right, it is the left. That explains why Japanese textbooks are so self-flagellating.

However, Chinese propaganda beautifies and glorifies its own history, calling Mao Zedong a hero and such. At least Japanese textbooks don't lie. Japanese textbooks may choose facts (based on whether the event realistically occurred or should be taught to middle schoolers) but it never lies. Chinese textbooks outright lie. I choose Japanese education system over Chinese education system.

So does Taiwan.

This is rather an isolated massage to Chinese people.

As you guys might have figured out, I'm a Japanese.
I didn’t want to carry Japan because I wanted my postings to be taken seriously.
At the same time, I didn’t want to pass wrong information through.

I found this forum with Google search by the key word "anti-Japan" right after I watched anti-Japan demonstration in Beijing on television.
I got frozen. Awful images, bad language and even shocking topics were everywhere as you know..

I lived in the United States and Australia in total of 6 years. During my stay in both countries I wanted to be good friends with Chinese classmates and roommates. I tried to understand them by asking questions in various topics and do things like cooking and watching television together. But there always was distance between us however I tried.

Then I found out the reasons in this forum.
Problems lay in their government, especially in education.
Communication between people of different cultures has a lot to get over.

Thank you for deleting offensive topics and stop using bad language, although I still see a black guy saying "this one j@p devil" in Chinese in signature.
I didn't know the meaning of the Chinese character 鬼as devil, not beast, because no Chinese people used such offensive language to me in person.

I cried twice before I wrote this message.
One is the time when I read a message from oversea during Shanghais demonstration.
"I think it is reasonable to teach many aspects of the past.
It is inevitable to teach the reasons why Japan started the wars to avoid any tragedy in the future.
There must have been reasons why Japan (and many other countries) started invasions into asian countries. I don't think that it was not because Japan was like to invade and kill.

It may be true that Japan helped Korea its modernisation. Japan standarised Hangul, which is Korean's own invention. Also, Japan gave up what Japan had invested in Korea such as many infrastructures when Korea was emancipated from Japan by US.

It is prejudice to teach only "Japan did many atrocious things" without thinking what made Japan did them.
It is not prudent to deny everything that Japan did in the past stopping looking at other aspects of the history.
And that blindness doesn't give us any clue to avoid a war in the future."

The other one is the time when I read an opinion on BBC China Japan meeting: Your views.
"Japan made a lot of mistakes during WWII and China has since WWII, and there will be many more. Let's forgive but not forget. Let's move on from the past and move into the future. This is the new age Asia, we need to work together to make Asia as powerful as possible.
Wong, Sydney, Australia"

UN Security Council seat? It's not my interest.

I just hope Chinese and Korean people to be free from the suffering of older generations.
And I also hope the World to set us free from the stigma of “j@p devil.”

Chinese education , tamade more like brainwashing.

The chinese textbooks doesn't glorify Mao anymore. It's been updated.

well said ducky, well said. as a fellow japanese person, I'm very happy there are others in Japan who think like that. These days, Japanese people have succumb to Chinese propaganda too. I was truly afraid for this country. But as long as there are more people like you, there is hope for Japan.

if there's going to be a war between china and japan,i'd be the first man in history riding the atomic bomb to japan.........

just kidding...just kidding............lol

I don't think Mao's glorified in Chinese historical text books made within this decade to the best of my knowledge, and most Chinese know of the Great Leap Backward and how millions of people were "wrongfully killed." The reason why Mao's looked to as a hero is because he is the one to unify China after 5000 years of imperial rule and move the country on to the 20th century.

To add to that, i have a neighbor who's lived through that time, though, he never talks about it. Unfortunately, this guy's an @$$hole. His wife has stage 4b cancer for god's sakes, and he's rarely home to take care of her!