Most of them died. Thanks you Uncle Ho.

well, they won !!

... in hell and with very high prices.

I like that poster. Guessed it worked.

here is another historical picture of the National Liberation Front

i dont feel proud if the American side won, but that would be better for Vietnam i guess !!

the Vietnam war was really a war for "Independence" the PAVN were fighting for their country, the Chinese ruled VN for a 1000 years, the Japanese in WWII, the French from the 1850's to the 1950's,the French were defeated at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, then the US in 1965-75 until the fall of Saigon on April 30, 1975.

From a millitary standpoint they lost

NVA(not including the vietcong insurgents) casualties 1 million plus KIA, another 3 or 4 million WIA

U.S casualties 50,000 KIA, 250,000 WIA

ARVN casualties 250,000 KIA, 1.5 million WIA


From a political standpoint they won.

Communism took over. But thats ok, it's either Communism takes over, or Wal-Mart takes over.

^ Thanks for the stats. However, no one has won the battle. Everyone lost. All the Viet Cong on the pics were dead. Killed by American. What good are them pix full of dead people?

Today Vietcong have found American are the best. They are everywhere in US. They sux American dix despite the hoola baloo anti-american shiet...

Still Doesnt Awnser the Question of why the United states Tucked tail and ran?? What they did in korea and did in Gulf 1 Now Gulf 2 Is looking like it will Be the same end which is America Pulling out, simular to most men when starting a DIY Job in the House get half done then Give up LOL.
Add another 8000 American to the dead list. America Cant face up to losing they lost that war fair and square sure they killed alot easy to do that from 5 miles in the sky dropping bombs...On the ground in the jungles in the shrub VC Was KING a stick man kicked the big chunky american butts. admit it america was Licked. LOL

Vastly superior firepower. Doesn't matter how many died. If you came in with a goal and put in so much money and time and the objective is not met then its a lost. Stop bringing up these stats to make yourself feel better. Take it as a lesson learned.

Actually those 1 million KIA for NVA include Vietcong insurgents.

Plus the American dead was 58,000 not 50,000 or if you want to round, 60,000 is closer though.

But anyway, it doesn't matter. At least 1 million died in achieving their goals, while the 300,000 allied forces that died, died in vain because they lost.

When the US left, they signed an agreement that allowed 200,000 NVA troops to stay in South Vietnam, which basically almost guaranteed a takeover of South Vietnam. So in my opinion I think the signing accords was an act of surrender, so if the US was victorious as they claim, they would have never made such a deal that let 200,000 NVA troops stay in South Vietnam.

It's usually the winner who gets more power during these war negotiations right?

Also how would you define a military victory? One who gets less casualities wins??? No a military victory is one where one side achieves their objectives in fighting the war.

If body count was an indicator of military victory, then the Nazis won WW2 since they had less casualities than the forces that were fighting against them like Allies and Soviet put together.

But hardly anyone is gonna say Hitler won WW2 because they had less casualities but because their objectives in the war failed, and the same thing should be applied to the Vietnam war.



You got proof that every one of those people in the pictures died? Or is that just properganda stories you got from your ancestors?

Why would propaganda posters answer such a question.

The reason was obvious. Vietnam was too costly materially and politically for the Americans. They realize that they didn't have to contain communism as relationship b/w China and the US was improving. There were many forms of communism that deviate from the Stalinist communism and they could be worked with.

America made a strategic decision to get out.

Vietnam "victory" or rather "defeat to communism" came because of unreliable American allies. They also failed to keep to help defend South Vietnam when the communists invaded

well these are simpleton people. do you kiss @$$ to a corrupt "democratic" govt. backed by a Western nation, or a Communist leader taht have been there even before the French?

i say they're both evil.

That's what many Vietnamese believe too, but you if you had to side with someone I rather side with the flawed "democratic" govt. South Korean govt corrupted as well during their war (and some still say even today) but look where Vietnam is and where South Korea is by trying to walk the path of democracy and maintaining an alliance with America.


There's too many empirical evidence of what Vietnam could have become if history had been different. Communism and Ho Chi Minh screwed it up for us.


Just look at the Phillippines. Most flipino don't like the Americans, but your country would have been much worst off without them. What if the Spanish had continued to rule the Phillippine? Phippine is at least a respectable Asian nation.

two North Vietnamese army soldiers during the battle for Hue city 1968



ARVN on a street corner in Saigon "TET 68" dead VC are on the street.

You know why the NVA or VC died? Because they actually fought to the death. Unlike ARVN, who just ran away, when the NVA was taking Saigon.

I have more respect to soldiers who fight to the death than those who just run away.



Wrong. Ho Chi Minh wouldn't have won the war if he didn't have popular support. Most of the Vietnamese were on his side.

I've read a Vietnam War book written by an American that most peasants of South Vietnam were on Ho's side because NVA leaders cleverly told their troops to treat the peasant with kindness.

They were allowed to assassinate village leaders but leave the peasants alone.

Most Vietnamese during that time had no sense of nationalism or borders. They mostly sided with whoever treated them the best. Basically ARVN troops would belittle them and treat them like dirt because they came from the big city and were making fun of the peasants.

Maybe if the ARVN had the support of the people instead of being a corrupt regime that only wanted American money. Then maybe they would have had the support to win the war.

Sure the Commies were also corrupt but at least they were smart enough to hide it instead of arrgantly bullying the civilians around.



Got proof that most Filipinos hate Americans?

yes, the VC / NVA were also highly motivated , I respect them as one of the finest fighting forces in history.

the VC / NVA soldier didnt serve a one year tour like the typical US combat soldier, the VC/NVA was there for the duration, they werent going home until the war was finished, they had lots of seasoned fighters
and combat experience, every able bodied man , woman, child was a soldier.

Since we rarely ever see Vietnam War photos from the other side. And Viet-Am here only post ARVN pics. Here are some NVA and VC ones I've found.

You can find more at www.anothervietnam.com







Here's a picture of an improvised surgery room being done in the swamp. Just shows the dedication of our people who are willing to wage war in such conditions.

That is very true. When my dad was a boy he told me that the VC would give the entire village notice to evacuate. When they took over the village for the duration they cleaned the houses, fed the pigs and other animals. Watered and kept everything in order for the villagers to return. Tidied up everything and treated everyone with respect. The place looked cleaner then it was when they left. When the S. Vietnamese armies came in it was the opposite. Ate everything, broke things and left a huge mess. Some think they were better because of thier neatly ironed and creased uniforms, flirting and harassing the women. VC were concentrated on thier efforts while the S. Vietnamese army bickered over things like money and women. He said the army was like Vietnamese youth gangs here. Sloppy and lazy and love money and women and swore left and right. Right or wrong obviously the VC won the love and support of that village.

"Vastly superior firepower. Doesn't matter how many died. If you came in with a goal and put in so much money and time and the objective is not met then its a lost. Stop bringing up these stats to make yourself feel better. Take it as a lesson learned."



Haha actually I'm not American, just another victim :P, except that was 20 years prior to vietnam.


But hey thats just what the americans needed though was a good slap in the face, not only by the vietnamese, but by their own public.

Well it would have been different yes, but the fact that the North won and the South collapsed...that's where it's different. Same with Korea. (Though nobody won, popular support N and S actually made a difference.)

the South lost, no matter what it is, even with all American can buy, the Vietnamese people at that time were tired of foreign intervention and majority supported Ho, who was there against the French, the Japanese, and then Americans.

And as for the Phil. question, the Spanish would have collapsed no matter what, give or take ten years. The American "help" (which was minimal to nothing if you've read the real accounts) actually just hastened it.

Also we do not "hate" Americans, nor do we like them there. But yes Americans did made it a little easier for us to have a stable govt. But they DID NOT started our democracy, there was already a govt. styled in the French democracy before the Americans came in. The Americans only set up their own "type" of democracy/constitution.

In the American Spanish War, I heard there was only one Spanish soldier that died due to dehydration.. LOL...that was a fake war. The American actually brought Filipine from Spain.

Spain was too ashamed of losing to Filipino so they surrender to the great American.


Another interesting thing is that allot of black G.I joined the Filipino people and fought against American. Since they were fighting for freedom but at home, they do not have freedom themselves.

hehe the funniest thing is that contrary to popular belief there was no physical nor finacial help from America. Americans destroyed the Spanish fleet in Manila Bay, but that was it.

As for expelling the Spanish, they promised freedom to the freedome fighters headed by Aguinaldo, but they barely did anything.

In fact the last battle in Manila the Spanish, who were ashamed to lose to "indios", lock down Manila and put all their forces to fight to the death to hold back Filipinos to the teeth and left open and urged Americans to come into it so that they could surrender it to them.

I can't add anything to what your saying. But I'd like to tell you of a young man just 16 years old that went to Vietnam. Like most Americans he was brainwashed into believing that he help the people of South Vietnam. When he was placed with his unit, he was ready for anything. On a hot morning as the patrol he was on walked through the tall grass,in some place he could pronounce the name of. He somehow lost his way and was separated from his unit, and now he was all alone. Now he'd been trained but training went right out the window as the fear grow inside of him. He walked in circles for many hours and could not locate his unit. As night was come on he thought that he'd stay in one spot and when the unit came back he'd hear them. The dark sky of the night made it hard to see but the sound were all round and loud. Believe it or not the young man was very scared. A little past midnight he heard what he thought was the patrol coming back, and when he stood up he came face to face with the enemy. The VC soldier raised his weapon and spoke in words that the young man did not understand. The young man drop his rifle and placed his hands on top of his head. fearing that death was soon to come.The VC soldier then ordered the young man to sit down. The VC soldier sat across from him and began speaking in broken english. As the young man tried to understand the VC soldier and what was being ask of him. The VC soldier made a motion with his hands as to ask if he was hungry. It wasn't until then that the young realized that he was a prisoner. The young man thought how it was fun that the VC soldier, a boy himself, was acting as if the two of them were friends. The young man try his best to answer the questions being asked and did not understand what some of the things had nothing to do with his being a prisoner.
As the two young men talked there was a loud noise, The Vc soldier placed one finger to his mouth as to say be very still. The young heard voices but the voices were not American. The voices were Vietnamese, The VC soldier made the young man lay very still until the troops had past. When it was safe the young man was motioned to stand, the VC soldier pointed the way to walk and the young man did as he was told. The two walked for what seemed like hours until the VC soldier grab the young man pulling him to the ground. The young heard truck and voice of American soldiers. The young man turn to the VC soldier who handed the young man a slip of paper. In broken english the VC soldier told the young man to go, while pointing to the American firebase. The young man looked into the eyes of the VC soldier and said thank you and moved slowly toward the American line.
The young man looked back to see th VC soldier once more but he was gone. The young man shouted and stood and walked to the base. Seven day after returning to the base, the young man was ordered to be discharged and sent home because of his age. total time in country 67 days. I know your asking how I know this story is true, well I'm that young man. And the slip of paper I got from the VC soldier had his name on it, it reads "Lam Van Tuan". I've learned over the years that what I'd been keeping in my memory box was the name of a boy that saved my life.. Like I said in the beginning I really can't add anything to what your say but I do know that sometimes friendship come from those we once called the enemy..

No...the majority did not support Ho (why do you claim this by the way; did you look at poll data? )...and when you say the "majority" do you mean in the North or the South because this matters a great deal. South Vietnam held out 5 years without American support while the North had full back backing from the Soviet and the PRC. This was one little country against the entire might of the communist bloc.

Recall in early day of the Korean War, S. Korea almost collasped itself ceding most of its territory (including Seou) to the North, and only when the American military intervened did the S. pushed the North back. The South Korean did not miraculously defeat the North by themselves .

When the Americans cut not only military support but also all financial support to S. Vietnam, that was the death knell for our little republic and the future of a democratic Vietnam.

South Vietnam meant a lot to millions of Vietnamese. Why do you think so Vietnameses in America and around the world (and some secretly in Vietnam) still think about it even 3 decades after the war? Have you ever asked yourself why there are so many ardent supporter of the legacy of S. Vietnam, when most people would have forgotten? Don't doubt the support and loyalty that S. Vietnam invoke among the Vietnamese people.




Concerning the Phillippine, you give America much less credit than they are due. I don't contend with you that the Spanish were weak, but how long would it take to overthrow them by yourselves....And I will also point out that the Phillippine would have been a Japanese colony if not for American victory in the Pacific...Can the Phillippine also defeat Japan by itself ? Even today, you're reliant on American military aid to fight Abu Sayef.



So the communists were corrupt and cruel, "but they're smart enough to hide it." This doesn't make them better than the ARVN, in fact, worst. The Viet Cong certainly didn't hide the Hue Massacre well or the terrorist attacks against civilians in Saigon. If you murder the "village head"; they also executed anywhere who didn't aid them. The Viet Cong already began a tactic of intimidation; if the villagers didn't treat the Viet Cong nicely, you would murder them. This is not winning support with compassion, Byron. This is only coercing it by inhumane and vile means.




They certainly don't want American troops in the Phillippines. Even when American trainers were sent to aid them in their fight against Abu Sayef there was huge protest..."hate" is probably too strong of a word...intensely dislike or distrustful of the americans is better. Byron, you also need to prove some of your assertions.

What was that book you read about the Viet Cong treat the villagers, who wrote it, and where was it published? How do you know the majority of Vietnamese support N. vietnam? Did you conduct poll data? Can you also explain to me why the majority of the Vietnamese abroad who have freedom to express their views intensely dislike the communists even to the point of refusing to recognize its flag? Can you tell me, why commies would probably get the chase out of Little Saigon if they fly that flag or put up a picture of Ho? All evidence suggest that the majority who can express their views hate communism...you might not know this...but you're quite a rarity among Vietnamese abroad...your parents being one of the few communists who also opportunisitically "fled communism" with other political refugees.

You know what...I think viet people were stupid...and because they were stupid...they fought each other...

the vnwar was a non-sense war... and north vn and south vn fought over nonsense things.

both ngo dinh diem and ho chi minh were stupid...

both north vnese and south vnese were stupid...

Ho CHi Minh was stupid because he stupidly believed in communism and tried to bring it to Vietnam, Communism was invented in Europe but didn't survive the 20th century, he sold his country to China, our greatest hereditary ennemy. I just can't forget the way he warmly hugged an embarrassed Mao.

Diê.m was antidemocratic and backwarded but he didn't betrayed the country and didn't launch attacks on the South.

ngo dinh diem was a good guy...he favored catholics and took rights away from buddhists...

The Viet Cong rebellion. Diem suppressed all rival political groups in his effort to strengthen his government. But his government never achieved widespread popularity, especially in rural areas, where his administration did little to ease the hard life of the peasants. Diem became increasingly unpopular in 1956, when he ended local elections and appointed his own officials down to the village level, where self-government was an ancient and honored tradition. From 1957 to 1959, he sought to eliminate members of the Vietminh who had joined other South Vietnamese in rebelling against his rule. Diem called these rebels the Viet Cong, meaning Vietnamese Communists. These rebels were largely trained by the Communists, but many were not Communist Party members.

Although North Vietnam had hoped to achieve its goals without a military conflict against the United States or the South Vietnamese government, it supported the revolt against Diem from its early stages. In 1959, as U.S. advisers rushed aid to South Vietnam by sea, North Vietnam developed a supply route to South Vietnam through Laos and Cambodia. This system of roads and trails became known as the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Also, in 1959, two U.S. military advisers were killed during a battle. They were the first American casualties of the war.

By 1960, discontent with the Diem government was widespread, and the Viet Cong had about 10,000 troops. In 1961, they threatened to overthrow Diem's unpopular government. In response, President John F. Kennedy greatly expanded economic and military aid to South Vietnam. From 1961 to 1963, he increased the number of U.S. military advisers in Vietnam from about 900 to over 16,000.

The Buddhist crisis. In May 1963, widespread unrest broke out among Buddhists in South Vietnam's major cities. The Buddhists, who formed a majority of the country's population, complained that the government restricted their religious practices. Buddhist leaders accused Diem, a Roman Catholic, of religious discrimination. They claimed that he favored Catholics with lands and offices at the expense of local Buddhists. The government responded to the Buddhist protests with mass arrests, and Diem's brother Ngo Dinh Nhu ordered raids against Buddhist temples. Several Buddhist monks then set themselves on fire as a form of protest.

Diê.m administration might do little to ease paesants hardship but he didn't confiscated land nor deliberatedly eliminated reluctant villagers. He ordered to regroup villagers in "strategic hamlet" to protect them from Commmis skirmishes and infiltration. It may be a bad slution but there was no other solution at that time.

Have you ever lived in the countryside by that time ? My parents did, and they witnessed how commies killed villagers who refused to provide them. My parents were peasants, they had to flee to Saigon.

If you have time, just study how Communists killed those who helped them in the anti french movement without sharing their idealogy.READ, READ, and READ several papers on this time and you will have a clearer idea on this epoch.

what i read is this



and this


and i found vietcong was not as bad as people say.

your story touches me a lot . I know that the vast majority of Northern soldiers were crooked by the communist propaganda telling them to march Southward to deliver southern compatriots repressed by americans. These young men were just as idealistic as you were. They just didn't give a $hit for communism, they were filled with hatred for americans who dropped bombs on their village and with patrotism.