Are these quotes by HCM true or not? Can you provide me some sources? Thanks.
"Our guide tells us that while the Americans were bombing Hanoi, children were reading the words of Ho Chi Minh in bomb shelters: "It is not the American people who are bombing us, it is the American Imperialists. We must learn to love the Americans because they will return after the war."
"Vietnam has faced many conquerors over the centuries. The Mongols, the French, the Japanese, the Americans. They come and go. Unfortunately for us, the Chinese will always be there."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Ho_Chi_Minh
Full Version: Quote of HCM about Americans and Chinese ?
Make sure you take the first and primary source, and not listen to secondary sources.
Ask those who give you the answer if he heard it from the primary source or if he heard it through someone else.
Don't ask those Nguy because they have never seen President HCM in real life, so definitely they are not the primary source.
Ask those who give you the answer if he heard it from the primary source or if he heard it through someone else.
Don't ask those Nguy because they have never seen President HCM in real life, so definitely they are not the primary source.
All his life HCM was helped by China and the Chinese people. He accepted the help so he doesn't have the right to have this opinion.
^ Where did China get its weapons to fight against the Japanese and its internal rivalries?
Don't say the word help, just say we purchased weapons from China. It is not like we were getting those weapons for free.
Don't say the word help, just say we purchased weapons from China. It is not like we were getting those weapons for free.
Purchase? What did the viet minh have to purchase anything with? Aid to Vietnam was a *national priority* in 1966, even when China was experiencing the most turmoil. The only things that went from Vietnam to China were a couple of cows in 1979.
Go look at how much VN owes China for weapon purchase. If you want to say help, then ask China to erase the debt related to the war. Then come back here and talk help. Other than that, it is purchase of weapons, not help.
QUOTE (moonbase @ Jul 16 2011, 02:29 PM) 
Purchase? What did the viet minh have to purchase anything with? Aid to Vietnam was a *national priority* in 1966, even when China was experiencing the most turmoil. The only things that went from Vietnam to China were a couple of cows in 1979.
What are you even talking about? What war debts? Show some evidence or don't say anything.
QUOTE (moonbase @ Jul 17 2011, 01:43 AM)
What are you even talking about? What war debts? Show some evidence or don't say anything.
in 1969 Vietnam already erased that debt, because China forced Vietnam to turn against USSR, Vietnam chose not to listen to China, so China also turn against Vietnam and don't sell Weapon for Vietnam anymore, that is why China hate us and we don't have to pay a big debt thanks to our ancestor.
QUOTE
All his life HCM was helped by China and the Chinese people. He accepted the help so he doesn't have the right to have this opinion.
please do you even know what are you saying? He only accept help from USSR, when chinese sent 10000 troops to help vietnam build roads after the war with French, he force them to leave right after those roads completed.
He know that china never want Vietnam to united, they want have more influences in North Vietnam so they want to keep our country seperated, you know just like North Korean.
Can you read Vietnamese? i have a lot of sources, but they are in Vietnamese though.
Watch this interview, with him china is nothing more than a partner in bussiness and he would never listen to China... Though i'd rather use the word comrade since they are communist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onhVOcVGHds
And have you ever seen any chinese soldiers in Vietnam war? because we are all nationalist we'd rather kill our sister by our very hand than let her being touched by Chinese dirty hand. [though we fight for the ideal world of Communist, where we brother and sister could all live happy together.]
^ wow what you said really makes me sick. Where do you think HCM got his army? Where did he know how to fight? He was only a paper revolutionary before China made his Viet Minh into a fighting force, with training, weapons, and mentorship. Every gun, canon and bullet used at Dien Bien Pheu was Chinese, so were the advisers and tactics. The tunneling strategy was taken from Chinese experience in Korean war. The battle itself was a strategy designed by Chinese advisors - this is from West Point's own military studies. China sent 300,000 air defence troops to North Vietnam and shot down 2000 American planes which were bombing Vietnam. Over 1000 Chinese soldiers lost their lives defending Vietnam against bombing.
Chinese aid kept flowing right up to 1975. Nothing ever went back to China. I don't know what you're talking about erasing debts. China gave free aid knowing Vietnam can never repay it. Vietnam accepted it and now you want to act like ungrateful bastards! pfffffffffttttttt!
Chinese aid kept flowing right up to 1975. Nothing ever went back to China. I don't know what you're talking about erasing debts. China gave free aid knowing Vietnam can never repay it. Vietnam accepted it and now you want to act like ungrateful bastards! pfffffffffttttttt!
^ your government told you this?
What I find funny is the things Chinese members say can all be verified from some kind of source. But Vietnamese just make things up out of nowhere. Some people respect the truth, some don't care whatsoever.
QUOTE (moonbase @ Jul 17 2011, 10:22 AM)
^ wow what you said really makes me sick. Where do you think HCM got his army? Where did he know how to fight? He was only a paper revolutionary before China made his Viet Minh into a fighting force, with training, weapons, and mentorship. Every gun, canon and bullet used at Dien Bien Pheu was Chinese, so were the advisers and tactics. The tunneling strategy was taken from Chinese experience in Korean war. The battle itself was a strategy designed by Chinese advisors - this is from West Point's own military studies. China sent 300,000 air defence troops to North Vietnam and shot down 2000 American planes which were bombing Vietnam. Over 1000 Chinese soldiers lost their lives defending Vietnam against bombing.
Chinese aid kept flowing right up to 1975. Nothing ever went back to China. I don't know what you're talking about erasing debts. China gave free aid knowing Vietnam can never repay it. Vietnam accepted it and now you want to act like ungrateful bastards! pfffffffffttttttt!
Chinese aid kept flowing right up to 1975. Nothing ever went back to China. I don't know what you're talking about erasing debts. China gave free aid knowing Vietnam can never repay it. Vietnam accepted it and now you want to act like ungrateful bastards! pfffffffffttttttt!
I asked you one last time, Is there any chinese uniform in Viet Minh force at battle of Dien Bien Phu?
About weapon:
Really? but sorry, but that is not true. Vietnamese have all kind of weapon from Arisaka type 99 rifle to STG-44 and MP40, PPSh-41. China weapon is only be used by 1% Viet Minh soldier Every Viet Minh Officer is given a Sword as a symbol of Power. Sound really strange isn't it? but it is the truth, if you want proof just tell me.
I'm sorry, But Vo Nguyen Giap have never take any of your chinese advisor's words, thank to that we have our own victory.
North Korea has lost forever thanks to China but we have won, and just one more facts, N.A.T.O brought all kind of newest techs to the battlefield, do you really think that you can survived the bombing without tunneling?
about 300.000 air defence, i'm sorry, that just sound so stupid, Do you even watch any historical documents? where is your sources about all the things you have said? lying ,talking $hit and over-exaggerating are of course make you feel better but it won't make you any stronger.
You are talking just like Chinese propaganda program (brainwashing machine)...
From a paper written by a guy from JFK Special Warfare Center and School
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thc...esesupport.aspx
First read this to show you have the ability to learn facts and talk about facts, not just puff smokes in the air. Then I might show more support for my other statements.
QUOTE
With the signing of the Korean Armistice in July 1953 China could and would shift additional resources to Vietnam. Specific support provided for the Dien Bien Phu campaign would include planning, logistics, engineering advisors, trucks, rocket and 75mm recoilless rifle battalions, and Soviet Katyusha Rocket Launchers or “Stalin Organs.” A combined headquarters was established as the Dien Bien Phu Campaign Command with General Giap as Commander in Chief with Chinese General Wei Guoqing as General Advisor. [36]
Giap wrote years after the battle that “I felt there needed to be a meeting with the head of the team of friendly military experts who was also present. Generally speaking, relationships between us and friendly military experts ever since the Border Campaign had been excellent. Our friends had given us the benefit of their invaluable experience drawn from the revolutionary war in China and the anti-US war in Korea.” [37] It is interesting that in his account of the battle Giap makes no mention of Chinese material support or advice and planning assistance provided throughout this decisive last battle of the First Vietnam War. The Chinese advisors, such as General Wei Guoqing, are not identified or given any credit by Giap. Perhaps this is understandable given that one of the Chinese advisors would write later that “The greatest shortcoming of the Vietnamese Communists was their fear of letting other people know their weaknesses. They lacked Bolshevist self-criticism.” [38] The siege of Dien Bien Phu was to last 8 weeks with China providing 8,286 tons of supplies, including 4,620 tons of petroleum, 1,360 tons of ammunition, 46 tons of weapons and 1,700 tons of rice from supply depots 600 miles away. [39]
Chinese advisors would be involved at all levels during the battle including digging in the all important Vietnamese artillery into shellproof dugouts, experience learned the hard way in the hills of Korea. [40] In effect the battle of Dien Bien Phu would be planned and assisted by Chinese advisors and fought with Chinese trained, equipped, supplied, transported and fed PAVN troops in a military soup to nuts manner. This support is rarely mentioned as a contributing factor to the Vietnamese victory in 1954 but should be acknowledged in analyzing the battle.
...
Both Vietnam Wars, from 1946-1975, ended in victory for North Vietnam against the west, but without the massive amounts of military aid provided by the PRC, most likely the outcome would have been different.
Giap wrote years after the battle that “I felt there needed to be a meeting with the head of the team of friendly military experts who was also present. Generally speaking, relationships between us and friendly military experts ever since the Border Campaign had been excellent. Our friends had given us the benefit of their invaluable experience drawn from the revolutionary war in China and the anti-US war in Korea.” [37] It is interesting that in his account of the battle Giap makes no mention of Chinese material support or advice and planning assistance provided throughout this decisive last battle of the First Vietnam War. The Chinese advisors, such as General Wei Guoqing, are not identified or given any credit by Giap. Perhaps this is understandable given that one of the Chinese advisors would write later that “The greatest shortcoming of the Vietnamese Communists was their fear of letting other people know their weaknesses. They lacked Bolshevist self-criticism.” [38] The siege of Dien Bien Phu was to last 8 weeks with China providing 8,286 tons of supplies, including 4,620 tons of petroleum, 1,360 tons of ammunition, 46 tons of weapons and 1,700 tons of rice from supply depots 600 miles away. [39]
Chinese advisors would be involved at all levels during the battle including digging in the all important Vietnamese artillery into shellproof dugouts, experience learned the hard way in the hills of Korea. [40] In effect the battle of Dien Bien Phu would be planned and assisted by Chinese advisors and fought with Chinese trained, equipped, supplied, transported and fed PAVN troops in a military soup to nuts manner. This support is rarely mentioned as a contributing factor to the Vietnamese victory in 1954 but should be acknowledged in analyzing the battle.
...
Both Vietnam Wars, from 1946-1975, ended in victory for North Vietnam against the west, but without the massive amounts of military aid provided by the PRC, most likely the outcome would have been different.
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thc...esesupport.aspx
First read this to show you have the ability to learn facts and talk about facts, not just puff smokes in the air. Then I might show more support for my other statements.
Of course the commie-dog Ho Chi Minh was not helped by the commie-dog Mao Tse Tung at all :lol:
Chú ý 2 tay thằng chó cộng-sản đẻ Hồ Chí Minh cảm ơn thằng chó cộng anh cả Mao :lol:
Chú ý 2 tay thằng chó cộng-sản đẻ Hồ Chí Minh cảm ơn thằng chó cộng anh cả Mao :lol:
QUOTE (moonbase @ Jul 17 2011, 05:33 PM)
From a paper written by a guy from JFK Special Warfare Center and School
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thc...esesupport.aspx
First read this to show you have the ability to learn facts and talk about facts, not just puff smokes in the air. Then I might show more support for my other statements.
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thc...esesupport.aspx
First read this to show you have the ability to learn facts and talk about facts, not just puff smokes in the air. Then I might show more support for my other statements.
You expect me to trust pro-china and chinese citation?
Look at the source of the paper its full of chinese source.
QUOTE
Both Vietnam Wars, from 1946-1975, ended in victory for North Vietnam against the west, but without the massive amounts of military aid provided by the PRC, most likely the outcome would have been different.
Sorry, but in 1969 is the time for sino-soviet split, so your source is not trustworthy. I believe that china sold a lot weapon for Viet Minh and i appriciated that, but its not being use much in Vietnamese army in the war against US even now. You rarely see any Chinese equipment in VPA.
USSR is the real helper here, as you can see we use a lot of USSR equipments.
QUOTE (moonbase @ Jul 17 2011, 06:33 AM)
From a paper written by a guy from JFK Special Warfare Center and School
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thc...esesupport.aspx
First read this to show you have the ability to learn facts and talk about facts, not just puff smokes in the air. Then I might show more support for my other statements.
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thc...esesupport.aspx
First read this to show you have the ability to learn facts and talk about facts, not just puff smokes in the air. Then I might show more support for my other statements.
Wow...this is interesting! You're right, it is a US military perspective, but it seems Vietnam is determined to erase and revise their own history rather than to admit to China's aid in its defense. This is a lesson for China, and affirms the truism - there are no permanent friends or foes, just permanent interests.
I think some people here are confused between "Military Aid" & "Economic Loan" that China provided
Feel free to correct me when you bring up a source stating that Chinese "Military Aid" was purchased by Vietnamese money.....
About $250 million in aid comes from neighboring China, which may have to donate as much as 500,000 tons of rice to North Viet Nam this year because of food shortages. China also provides almost 80% of the Viet Cong's infantry weapons, mostly rifles and mortars; small government factories in North Viet Nam can turn out only limited quantities of grenades, land mines and pistols.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...43585-1,00.html
All those above is paid with Vietnamese money??? WOW, why am I not surprised?
Feel free to correct me when you bring up a source stating that Chinese "Military Aid" was purchased by Vietnamese money.....
About $250 million in aid comes from neighboring China, which may have to donate as much as 500,000 tons of rice to North Viet Nam this year because of food shortages. China also provides almost 80% of the Viet Cong's infantry weapons, mostly rifles and mortars; small government factories in North Viet Nam can turn out only limited quantities of grenades, land mines and pistols.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...43585-1,00.html
All those above is paid with Vietnamese money??? WOW, why am I not surprised?
QUOTE (qwerty2010 @ Jul 17 2011, 08:18 AM)
Wow...this is interesting! You're right, it is a US military perspective, but it seems Vietnam is determined to erase and revise their own history rather than to admit to China's aid in its defense. This is a lesson for China, and affirms the truism - there are no permanent friends or foes, just permanent interests.
To Vietnamese, everything is magically accomplished by themselves. China is never to be thanked for anything even when they don't study how China helped them fought against their freedom ever since their struggle with French let alone the latter war with American.
^ ok thank china and chinese. Happy Now.
QUOTE (qwerty2010 @ Jul 17 2011, 08:18 AM)
Wow...this is interesting! You're right, it is a US military perspective, but it seems Vietnam is determined to erase and revise their own history rather than to admit to China's aid in its defense. This is a lesson for China, and affirms the truism - there are no permanent friends or foes, just permanent interests.
Vietnam should learn the lesson that its blood betrayal was a serious miscalculation of its own interests. Compared to them North Korea played the game much better. Vietnam thought that by becoming a Soviet tool they could dominate all of Indo-China. This might have been possible if Vietnam didn't accept so much Chinese help, but they did and they grew up on China's milk. In the end, no good outcome was possible for traitors.
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