Just a quick question, but I've read that the ancient Dong Son people were the most advanced bronze civilization in the world and there are even rumors that the DS taught the Shang Dynasty people how to caste bronze correctly. The reason I posted this here is because I know especially considering the amount of elitism among certain Chinese members here on AF that they will never accept the fact or possibility that their own people learned from us inferior Viets 2. They will probably deny it without even examining the situation so I've decided that this should be the place to post it. Well is it true?

I have never heard of Dong Son being the most advanced, but it is pretty advanced, that's what I know.

you should ask byron. He seems like he knows alot.

I'm all ears to your assertions as long as you provide evidence of such claims.

if you been here long enuff you will know since byron had provided some proofs. i guess he just being lazy to talk about it again

Like I said, I'm all ears as long as I see a valid argument and evidence of such claims. The funny thing is though, I've studied Chinese history and culture for quite some time now and never have I heard anything about such claims and these are quite knowledgeable China experts with phd's from Ivy league schools alot of them western scholars might I add. So even if you can provide some sort of document, more than likely it's not going to be a very valid one and probably some random page found off the internet.

hahaha....you've studied history from a chinese guy? no wonder why

didn't you know each country have a difference point of views about their history. they biased and lie to some degree in oder to make themsefl look good....like japanese for instance, they were lied about their history regarding to nanking massacre

anyways, we do have proofs. it's in the vietanese chat, if you go dig up an old threads

I rather have got it from the Viets than from the Indo-European nomads via the Huns/Xiongnus. I think the first bronze were in the Middle East. Let's cross our fingers and hope it was somewhere in Asia.

Edit: I just checked.. Dong Son is 850-40 BC, which is after Chinese bronze age. Bronze first appeared in the Middle East and it's the contention of Nordicists that Indo-Europeans were responsible for propagating bronze into China via the steppes, and thus "start Chinese civilization".

i like my dong. it rules hahaha

I don't know if Chinese metal development got influence from Dong Song culture, but we developed bronze much earlier than that, 2000 BC atleast. From the source they say Dong Song's metal developennet is independ from Western or Chinese influence. We used bronze before contact with China.

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~wsayres/anth4...Metal%20Working

i already know that.....i just being lazy to provide evidence.

btw, keep the viet pride going dawg

As far as I know, the earliest bronze is from the Middle East, and it is likely that from there it spread to other places.

From your own site:

Early in the 1st millenium.. 850 B.C. as I got from the other site.

I'm not trying to put you down. If that's the arcaeological record, then that's it. I would have rather the Chinese developing their own bronze but if it's from the Middle East, then that's it.
I have to look into this, actually.. where bronze first developed.

You mean Iron Age? yeah Iron Age came after Bronze Age Nothing wrong with that picture.

Some sources even say Dong Song Bronze Age started as earlier as 4000 BC, but it's still debatable.

I'm quoting the link. Yes, Iron Age is later. I think they meant Bronze Age.

Some sites say as early as 4000 B.C.? Well you can't really trust many internet sites. On the internet, I stick with acamedic institutions or professional sites, even then the guy who put up the page might've screwed up, so you have to confirm it more then once with other sources.

Some sites say as early as 4000 B.C.? Well you can't really trust many internet sites. On the internet, I stick with acamedic institutions or professional sites, even then the guy who put up the page might've screwed up, so you have to confirm it more then once with other sources.

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true! esp. the chinese sites when it comes to history $hit...i really don't trust the chinese historean that much. no offence

No 4000 BC source are not random internet site. It's from Vietnamese historians. That is why I put here and say it's debatable. Take it with a grain of salt.