I got a question.

Why do Vietnamese photographers like taking this kind of picture?



Seem to me there are quite many metaphors that I can't grasp. There got to be something more than...you know..."sự gợi cảm"...right?

This is off-topic, but I heard there are some opinions against adopting lotus as national flower. Some of it actually makes sense.

I wonder what the national flower will be now. I'm thinking of hoa nhài (jasmine). It smells good and has not been adopted by anyone yet.

Hoa nhài nhiều nước lấy rồi.

Vả lại hoa nhài ít thấy gắn bó với văn hóa Việt Nam.


Back to topic, what's up with bare-backed women and lotus ponds?

Since none of you could give any good answer, I guess all of you guys are perverted. When you look at that picture, you got nothing in your mind except...lol

What are you talking about? I was looking at the lous the entire time

Trong đầm gì đẹp bằng sen...

Your mind was telling you to look at the lotus but your eyes kept moving to the girl, am I right?

This is so unfair. I usually don't look at pictures even if it stares me in the eye. But now that you say it, I do see a girl in a pond, and that's all. Lotus ponds is just a setting where it is more acceptable to show some skin. (There are plenty of "artistic nude" pictures that don't involved any lotus).

As for her bare back? well, that's so teenager. Nowadays if one wants to, one can see a lot more than just a bareback with just a mouse click. (And no, I'm not going to tell you where. I don't want to poison the mind of all the teenagers here ).

I'm talking about art, so please don't bring your crappy theories about society here.

haha .. I just wanted to joke a bit .. who cares what society does or thinks?

You're always lame as usual. What do teenagers have to do with this? If you want to joke then try a better one.

we all know you think so

Because lotus's are lovely and pink which is a color associated with soft and gentleness or the womb which are traits that are associated with women?

So the question is: why do Viet artists like depicting women with bare backs next to lotus ponds?

Is it because Viet women in the past often bathed in lotus ponds...

...and perverted Viet men like daxas and Kaosq liked to peek in to see them bathing?

LOL

The womb? That's interesting. I never thought of that metaphor - lotus ~ womb ~ women

But what's the meaning behind all this though? What traits of women are they trying to depict?

LMAO What are you thinking?


LOL this is probably where the Vietnamese lotus is different from the Buddhism lotus. In Buddhism, lotus symbolizes clarity of enlightenment. To reach that enlightenment or nirvana, your mind has to be free of love and women. But the Vietnamese lotus is always associated with women (sometimes in a very sensual or sexual way). How can you reach nirvana if you can't clear your mind of women?

Well, what's so different about nirvana and women?

They're both things you want to reach.

LMAO Too bad you can't have both at the same time


When an Indian man looks at a lotus: "I see great wisdom, great enlightenment from Buddha"
When a Viet man looks at a lotus: "I see a pure and beautiful naked girl"

xixon, you no longer use google to search for your question? or you google doesnt have an answer for this question of yours

^^Replying to Women and Lotus Ponds (XigonCongchua)


Too bad for those who misstaken its meaningful depict with such lovely photos that you posted - XigonCC , such a good question but poorly understood~

I would say those photos are bearing much deeper viet spirit and art form, there's nothing perverted about those pics~
Really, one ought to know the real vn cultures - art, and their relationship being put in proper context, and better understanding of one's own culture.

okay, in vietnamese and just a few from the top of my head, for you XigonCC, okay ~

Hinh anh nguoi con gai tam ben bo` ao (tat ca nhung nguoi da song va lon len tai vn deu nhin nhan):

- rat than quen moc mac
- nguoi con gai vi nhu hoa sen - trong sang em dem
- hoa sen, huong vi va hinh anh goi ta? " gan bun` ma` chang? ho^i tanh mui` bun`"

P.s thanks for those nice pics XGCC

Oh, the lotus reminds me of a big-sized d!ck or some sex toy specially designed for women! The venue reminds me of an ideal place for sex: closest to nature, on the boat surrounded by beautiful flowers, the smell of mud mixed with the smell of her soft, fine skin... Ha, ha, ha...

Best answer in this thread so far.

2vnspirit is the only one that has an untainted mind to appreciate the metaphors.

The rest of you have dirty minds.

Are you sure he's not a boy/man?

What if he shows you his d!ck?

He is NOT a boy/man in either figurative or direct sense of the word Hoac la theo nghia den, hoac la theo nghia bong... His d!ck has only one function which is to pee and that's all! :-D, ha, ha, ha...

Hahaha Are you you the standard for all men?

No indication of that in my previous post...

Stop it with the dirty talk. There are kids and grown ups in this forum you know. You wouldn't want to talk like this in open public or to your parents do you?

Here's me 2cents worth about the picture. Photographers love to play with similarity and contrast with an element of symbolism when they take pictures. The similarity here is that the beauty of the female form is pure, simple and beautiful like the lotus flower, that in contrast to the dirty muddy pond and the boat that she sits in. The flower is the girl and the pond is the boat. Her face is not shown because beauty is subjective. But her slender form, clear complexion and elegance definitely defines beauty in the form of the flower. The photographer here might be a little lazy in creating his own idea because the the subject or the scenery of the picture is beaten to death already.

Of course you have to notice the girl and the flower because why would you want to look at the pond, man or woman.

Xixon, how popular is this kind of drawings ? I tried using Google Images, but with English. I used different word combinations but cannot get much results.

Could you refer some results ?

Thank you and it is interesting.

You gotta do it in vietnamese

Try sen thiếu nữ (lotus young girl)
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&biw...mp;aql=&oq=

or Yếm thắm hồ sen
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&biw...mp;aql=&oq=

I see.

Ok I have theory.

It may be because in the past, traditionally, the lotus and the pond, is the work field of the women.

So the men maybe are working in the tougher work which require more physical exertion.

The women work in the lotus pond because it is a kind of foraging area.

The lotus can be used for food, for wrapping, and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelumbo_nucifera#Uses

So I believe because of this, the lotus pond is associated with woman and with femininity.

So some artists or painters when they would try to depict or represent an image of traditional Vietnamese woman in a nostalgic romanticized cultural traditional angle, they would think of this.

My speculation only.

The ones with ao dai are better. Less sexual appeal lol

Actually I have another theory,

Because almost all the pictures which are shown so far are photographs, and nearly no paintings at all,

It means this is something recent.

So I must re-evaluate my previous speculation.

I think there is possibility that its just a coincidence.

One photographer do it, some people see it, then another photographer do it, and then another photographer do it again.
It becomes a trend.
Also since that plant is available and is abundant in Vietnam, so it just so happens that a photographer imagining a nature background would sometimes choose it.

My speculation only.

to Bob the dirty dirty dude:
( include yr manhood if 've got one)
- It's yr own choice: angle your head above or below the mud !

Okay, I've visited the forum fairly occasionally, hence the late post, but since XigonCC brough up such lovely pics in her topic, I'll add a few comment

to XiGonCC: In yrs other comment on simplicity vs complexity

I would say in this case, yr pics of Yen Tham Hoa Sen is such a classic example!

- look at them with a clean-pure-peace of mind, and you'll fall in love with its simple-ness which says much about viet's tradition and way of life!

cuz they're beautiful. also isn't lotus a cultural icon for vietnam?

Untrue.

Unless you're generalizing. I debated summarizing what I learned in my cultural criticism class then just found a wikipedia reference to quote back:

In Western culture, the practice of assigning pink to an individual gender began in the 1920s or earlier. From then until the 1940s, pink was considered appropriate for boys because being related to red it was the more masculine and decided color, while blue was considered appropriate for girls because it was the more delicate and dainty color, or related to the Virgin Mary. Since the 1940s, the societal norm was inverted; pink became considered appropriate for girls and blue appropriate for boys, a practice that has continued into the 21st century

Extra emphasis from a detail of gender association with colors:

Why pink for boys? Some argued that pink was a close relative of red, which was seen as a fiery, manly color. Others traced the association of blue with girls to the frequent depiction of the Virgin Mary in blue.

and

"There has been a great diversity of opinion on the subject, but the generally accepted rule is pink for the boy and blue for the girl. The reason is that pink being a more decided and stronger color is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl."

Moving along...

I don't know recent it is but there are many oils paintings on the subject. It's just that google gives you more photograph pictures because those are more available and accessible in this modern age.




(this is ceramics)






Are you talking about my other topic, Simplicity vs Complexity?

Do you think that traditionally our people prefer simplicity or complexity?

You should post that in the other topic.


Yes. Lotus is like a cultural icon of Vietnam, though it's not an official national flower...yet


That's interesting.
Most Vietnamese also associate pink with girls nowadays. Do you think that's a Western influence?

But in olden Vietnam, people also associated pink color with women.

For example, the phrase "má hồng" (pink cheeks or rosy cheeks) is used to refer to attractive women or simply women in general. A similar phrase is "má đào" (peach cheeks ~ peach flowers are pink). Yếm đào (pink yếm) is another icon strongly associated with women.

Lòng Mẹ bao la như biển Thái Bình rạt rào,
Tình Mẹ tha thiết như giòng suối biển ngọt ngào,
Lời Mẹ êm ái như đồng lúa chiều rì rào.
Tiếng ru bên thềm trăng tà soi bóng Mẹ yêu.

Lòng Mẹ thương con như vầng trăng tròn mùa thu.
Tình Mẹ yêu mến như làn gió đùa mặt hồ.
Lời ru man mác êm như sáo diều dật dờ.
Nắng mưa sớm chiều vui cùng tiếng hát trẻ thơ.

Thương con thao thức bao đêm trường,
Con đà yên giấc Mẹ hiền vui sướng biết bao.
Thương con khuya sớm bao tháng ngày.
Lặn lội gieo neo nuôi con tới ngày lớn khôn.

Dù cho mưa gió không quản thân gầy Mẹ hiền.
Một sương hai nắng cho bạc mái đầu buồn phiền.
Ngày đêm sớm tối vui cùng con nhỏ một niềm.
Tiếng ru êm đềm mẹ hiền năm tháng triền miên.

II.
Lòng Mẹ chan chứa trên bao xóm làng gần xa.
Tình Mẹ dâng tới trăng ngàn đứng lặng để nghe,
Lời ru xao xuyến núi đồi suối rừng rặng tre.
Sóng ven Thái Bình im lìm khi tiếng Mẹ ru.

Một lòng nuôi nấng vỗ về những ngày còn thơ.
Một tình thương mến êm như tiếng đàn lời ca.
Mẹ hiền sớm tối khuyên ngủ bao lời mặn mà.
Khắc ghi bên lòng con trẻ muôn bước đường xa.

Thương con Mẹ hát câu êm đềm,
Run lòng thơ ấu quản gì khi thức trắng đêm.
Bao năm nước mắt như suối nguồn.
Chảy vào tim con mái tóc chót đành đẫm sương.

Dù ai xa vắng trên đường sớm chiều về đâu.
Dù khi mưa gió tháng ngày trong đời bể dâu.
Dù cho phai nắng nhưng lòng thương chẳng lạt mầu.
Vẫn mong quay về vui vầy dưới bóng mẹ yêu.
costom crystal jewelry

I think Tunisia has the Jasmine Flower on its national flag...



I figure it's got something to do with the obsession for Purity and the buddhist teaching of Impermanence.

The national Ao Dai is all white, emphasizing what? Purity.

The lotus is the essence of Purity and Impermanence as it rises out of a pond of muck.

The pictures of young girls barely clad amongst lotus flowers, seem to be to suggest there is not only Purity of youth, virginity, innocence but also Impermanence.

These paintings could be some old fogey's lamentations of how time is relentless pushing on, and the watchers of the paintings can only sighz with sadness and nostalgia.

I notice in Vietnam that many businesses have mottos like "Emotion", "moments" ... words that emphasize a certain nostalgia or melancholia... must be the grey wet weather....

ok juz my 2 cents... don't beat me up!

No worries, I will not beat you up. I will take you to the lotus pond.

Lotus does represent purity of the mind in Buddhism and lotus does not need pollination to form seeds...the seeds are always there. The seeds represent the inherents of the pure mind such as wisdom.