Full Version: Vietnamese writing
What do you reckon? Personally, I favour the romanisation of Vietnamese (current system). It's easy to learn and recognise some familiar words if you already speak Viet.
The Romanized script is the best.
what chu mom
I used to say Chu nom cause it looked cool but now after learning the grammar structure of Vietnamese and some of the words I like the Romanized one.
QUOTE (Huynh @ Dec 18 2004, 01:59 PM)
what chu mom
Old Vietnamese writing script. It uses characters/symbols like the Chinese/Japanese/Korean.
QUOTE (Cold_As_Ice @ Dec 18 2004, 05:06 PM)
QUOTE (Huynh @ Dec 18 2004, 01:59 PM)
what chu mom
Old Vietnamese writing script. It uses characters/symbols like the Chinese/Japanese/Korean.
the korean have an aphapet
The Romanized script is much better than Chữ Nôm. They're both cool though.
chữ nôm owns quốc ngữ 
delete
Romanization...I'm used to it and it's way more convinient.
..
It's be wonderful if Vietnam can come up with a new alphabet that doesn't use Roman letters. Something like Zhuyin, but based on Chu Nom characters of course. 
QUOTE (Dara @ Dec 19 2004, 03:30 AM)
It's be wonderful if Vietnam can come up with a new alphabet that doesn't use Roman letters. Something like Zhuyin, but based on Chu Nom characters of course.
Then it wouldnt be original. Vietnamese Chu Nom was already Chinese based, so essentially it's not very "Vietnamese" in the first place.
Whats wrong with Roman letters btw? It's proven to be effective in education as well as a very convienient form. Zhuyin sucks as it doesnt even properly represent the Chinese sounds.
..
The current system All the way
Current system. Vietnamese can't keep up with the East Asian countires and learn Chinese characters. It's too hard for them, boohoo 
QUOTE (fujisan_8 @ Dec 19 2004, 09:22 PM)
Zhuyin sucks as it doesnt even properly represent the Chinese sounds.
Uhm, do you even know Zhuyin Fuhao?
QUOTE (台北人 @ Dec 22 2004, 12:09 PM)
QUOTE (fujisan_8 @ Dec 19 2004, 09:22 PM)
Zhuyin sucks as it doesnt even properly represent the Chinese sounds.
Uhm, do you even know Zhuyin Fuhao?
I doubt he does. Zhuyin is the best (most accurate) system for Mandarin learning.
I think it's possible to have a form of "chu" writing that everybody can use.. based on presentating ideas and abstract grammar (not sounds and the specific grammar of a certain language), so people can understand each other across national boundaries. Japanese and Chinese still use the same Hanzi/Kanzi and some Koreans and Vietnamese can get by with it.. so why not..
QUOTE (Rappapa @ Dec 20 2004, 12:40 AM)
Current system. Vietnamese can't keep up with the East Asian countires and learn Chinese characters. It's too hard for them, boohoo
Stop trolling mister. I swear you can fit in chinazi right in, except for one fact that your parents are from Vietnam.
Chinese characters are just too illogical, why do we need to waste time anyway? Smarter people need more logical writings
Vietnamese need to use Indian scripts like the rest of SEAsia
No switching writing systems. It would cost millions just to replace all the signs, books and other documents just because we want a writing character change? Not to mention people would have to relearn how to read in another writing system and those that can't will lose thier jobs.
It's too much of a hassle.
It's too much of a hassle.
QUOTE (PervertBurger @ Dec 22 2004, 06:11 PM)
Vietnamese need to use Indian scripts like the rest of SEAsia
Indonesia, Malaysia, the Phillippines don't use Indian writing BTW..
The bottom line is ... I don't see any Indians embracing SE Asia... In fact, it's just the other way around..
For example: This radio show was talking about SE Asian gangs, and this Indian guy got mad and called up to say that South Asians (Indian/Pakis?Bengadeshis) was too close of a name to Southeast Asians.. He didn't want anyone to mix them up.. And the host was like, "WE KNOW"..
^fu-king hilarious. Even though I don't remember anytime in my life a Vietnamese has looked up to an Indian though.
I look at my Indian friends as equals though.
I look at my Indian friends as equals though.
lol 2
2
QUOTE (tam_ca @ Dec 19 2004, 11:30 PM)
Nothings wrong with it... except hmm how can i say this! i think the only way you'll know is if your a vietnmaese person who loves your nationality, culture and history. Or just someone who loves your own culture and history. Roman letters and Vietnamese people just dont fit in one on one.
cmon.. Roman Letters are convenient for any language if we decide to use it but then what will we be? Wheres our uniqueness, pride and stuff where will it go. Having your own writing system is kinda like a pride thing.. in your nationality and stuff. If you say that roman letters are mroe convenient then why dont everyone in the world just use it since it may be convenient for anything right... tahts what your saying...
Even though chu nom is based on chinese characters its pretty different, the only things that are the same are the han-viet words that we used..we modified it to fit our language, and its been with us for a longgg long time.. way way back... i mean if you throw away whats been with you for so long or stop using something wouldnt it feel weird like you lost a part of you or something? It represented us as viets.. our culture literature, and stuff were written in them. I feel that us not using it anymore is a disgrace to the vietnamese country, history and ancestors.
But creating a new script is a different story. If it is made by my country then hell yeah ill be proud.!.
cmon.. Roman Letters are convenient for any language if we decide to use it but then what will we be? Wheres our uniqueness, pride and stuff where will it go. Having your own writing system is kinda like a pride thing.. in your nationality and stuff. If you say that roman letters are mroe convenient then why dont everyone in the world just use it since it may be convenient for anything right... tahts what your saying...
Even though chu nom is based on chinese characters its pretty different, the only things that are the same are the han-viet words that we used..we modified it to fit our language, and its been with us for a longgg long time.. way way back... i mean if you throw away whats been with you for so long or stop using something wouldnt it feel weird like you lost a part of you or something? It represented us as viets.. our culture literature, and stuff were written in them. I feel that us not using it anymore is a disgrace to the vietnamese country, history and ancestors.
But creating a new script is a different story. If it is made by my country then hell yeah ill be proud.!.
Hello mister, next time you should be more eloquent when writing.
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its pronounciation parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's pronounciation part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
I would favor Quoc Ngu (Romanized system) over Chu Nom. Although I am also in favor of Chu Nom being taught at some levels in Vietnamese education to keep it alive.
Quoc Ngu will spread the country's literacy and it's easier for people to communicate and write/pronouce/recognize words, rather than some old lines that represent meanings... that's just too ancient for modern days.
ABCs... hail the alphabets of the western ideas.
Quoc Ngu will spread the country's literacy and it's easier for people to communicate and write/pronouce/recognize words, rather than some old lines that represent meanings... that's just too ancient for modern days.
ABCs... hail the alphabets of the western ideas.
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ Dec 22 2004, 08:06 PM)
communicate and write/pronouce/recognize words, rather than some old linesthat represent meanings... that's just too ancient for modern days.
Ignorance right there, at least read my post
QUOTE (Byron @ Dec 22 2004, 06:40 PM)
^fu-king hilarious. Even though I don't remember anytime in my life a Vietnamese has looked up to an Indian though.
That's why I like you guys.. You guys are the least deluded out of all the nationalists
QUOTE
Hello mister, next time you should be more eloquent when writing.
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
Both Hanzi and Chu Nom have their inefficient characters.. I hate the characters that are half based on phonetics and half on meaning.. It's like not letters but not true ideogram either..
I will admit that there are Vietnamese gangs in America, but Vietnam according to country reports that I read has a relatively low crime rate and very few murders but mostly theft though. But I'm not gonna paint myself a picture and will admit that there are Vietnamese gangs in America.
I'll admit I'm somewhat deluded since I don't have any political power in my country at all yet I'm always talking about it. lol
I'll admit I'm somewhat deluded since I don't have any political power in my country at all yet I'm always talking about it. lol
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 22 2004, 08:27 PM)
QUOTE (Byron @ Dec 22 2004, 06:40 PM)
^fu-king hilarious. Even though I don't remember anytime in my life a Vietnamese has looked up to an Indian though.
That's why I like you guys.. You guys are the least deluded out of all the nationalists
QUOTE
Hello mister, next time you should be more eloquent when writing.
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
Both Hanzi and Chu Nom have their inefficient characters.. I hate the characters that are half based on phonetics and half on meaning.. It's like not letters but not true ideogram either..
O wait I always thought semantic part is the pronounciation part, until I just looked up the dictionary :-P In my post, I recognized Hanzi are often include with a semantic part, and a pronounciation part
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Dec 22 2004, 08:21 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ Dec 22 2004, 08:06 PM)
communicate and write/pronouce/recognize words, rather than some old linesthat represent meanings... that's just too ancient for modern days.
Ignorance right there, at least read my post
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't even read your post to reply to your post. I replied to the topic's post.
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ Dec 22 2004, 08:35 PM)
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Dec 22 2004, 08:21 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ Dec 22 2004, 08:06 PM)
communicate and write/pronouce/recognize words, rather than some old linesthat represent meanings... that's just too ancient for modern days.
Ignorance right there, at least read my post
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't even read your post to reply to your post. I replied to the topic's post.
At least read people's post a.k.a my post.
Chu nom is usually has a semantic part and a pronuounciation part, rather just merely represent meaning.
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Dec 22 2004, 08:35 PM)
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 22 2004, 08:27 PM)
QUOTE (Byron @ Dec 22 2004, 06:40 PM)
^fu-king hilarious. Even though I don't remember anytime in my life a Vietnamese has looked up to an Indian though.
That's why I like you guys.. You guys are the least deluded out of all the nationalists
QUOTE
Hello mister, next time you should be more eloquent when writing.
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
Both Hanzi and Chu Nom have their inefficient characters.. I hate the characters that are half based on phonetics and half on meaning.. It's like not letters but not true ideogram either..
O wait I always thought semantic part is the pronounciation part, until I just looked up the dictionary :-P In my post, I recognized Hanzi are often include with a semantic part, and a pronounciation part
Most of the pronounciation parts don't even make sense anymore because the spoken languages have changed..
I only like the full pictograph and ideograph characters.. They are so beautiful and unique.. and I don't see why they have to be solely Chinese.. I mean the Japanese don't feel the least self-conscious that it is derived from Chinese.. Just like people now don't feel the least self-C that letters are derived from Phoenician alphabets..
I think they should invent new words with only semantic parts so all people can use it if they want.
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 22 2004, 08:40 PM)
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Dec 22 2004, 08:35 PM)
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 22 2004, 08:27 PM)
QUOTE (Byron @ Dec 22 2004, 06:40 PM)
^fu-king hilarious. Even though I don't remember anytime in my life a Vietnamese has looked up to an Indian though.
That's why I like you guys.. You guys are the least deluded out of all the nationalists
QUOTE
Hello mister, next time you should be more eloquent when writing.
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
Both Hanzi and Chu Nom have their inefficient characters.. I hate the characters that are half based on phonetics and half on meaning.. It's like not letters but not true ideogram either..
O wait I always thought semantic part is the pronounciation part, until I just looked up the dictionary :-P In my post, I recognized Hanzi are often include with a semantic part, and a pronounciation part
Most of the pronounciation parts don't even make sense anymore because the spoken languages have changed..
I only like the full pictograph and ideograph characters.. They are so beautiful and unique.. and I don't see why they have to be solely Chinese.. I mean the Japanese don't feel the least self-conscious that it is derived from Chinese.. Just like people now don't feel the least self-C that letters are derived from Phoenician alphabets..
I think they should invent new words with only semantic parts so all people can use it if they want.
You just repeated the number one in my list
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Dec 22 2004, 08:39 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ Dec 22 2004, 08:35 PM)
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Dec 22 2004, 08:21 PM)
QUOTE (DAI_VIET @ Dec 22 2004, 08:06 PM)
communicate and write/pronouce/recognize words, rather than some old linesthat represent meanings... that's just too ancient for modern days.
Ignorance right there, at least read my post
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't even read your post to reply to your post. I replied to the topic's post.
At least read people's post a.k.a my post.
Chu nom is usually has a semantic part and a pronuounciation part, rather just merely represent meaning.
There are some peoples' posts that I prefer not to read, and one of them is yours. And I don't give a crap if Chu Nom has semantic part or pronounciation part (well, at least that's good to know). But calling people ignorant is when you are ignored and ignorant about other people.
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Dec 22 2004, 08:41 PM)
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 22 2004, 08:40 PM)
QUOTE (supernovasp @ Dec 22 2004, 08:35 PM)
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 22 2004, 08:27 PM)
QUOTE (Byron @ Dec 22 2004, 06:40 PM)
^fu-king hilarious. Even though I don't remember anytime in my life a Vietnamese has looked up to an Indian though.
That's why I like you guys.. You guys are the least deluded out of all the nationalists
QUOTE
Hello mister, next time you should be more eloquent when writing.
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
A year ago I also had the same exact thoughts like you about having chunom as a self-identity and pride. However, as I got more into learning chunom, it striked me that there is no point of having it as a mandatory writing system. Chunom can be taught as an elective in highschool, and should not ever be obligatory because there would a sudden increase of memorization of something that are not as productive and efficient.
There are plethora of cons for chunom like
1. Hanzi system itself is very illogical as time moves on, and the pronounciation in its semantic parts are far from what its has been.
2. It's even more illogical when converted into chunom
3. There are no standardization of chunom, the word "chu" itself can be written in 5 ways.
4. Often chunom's semantic part are very rare characters, and some are even unregconizable
5. To write a sentence in chunom for intermidiate chunom learner is still 4-6 times slower than writing in romanization
6. Back to number 3, because of no standardization, it's a hassle to convert it into computer
There are more, I'll be back
Both Hanzi and Chu Nom have their inefficient characters.. I hate the characters that are half based on phonetics and half on meaning.. It's like not letters but not true ideogram either..
O wait I always thought semantic part is the pronounciation part, until I just looked up the dictionary :-P In my post, I recognized Hanzi are often include with a semantic part, and a pronounciation part
Most of the pronounciation parts don't even make sense anymore because the spoken languages have changed..
I only like the full pictograph and ideograph characters.. They are so beautiful and unique.. and I don't see why they have to be solely Chinese.. I mean the Japanese don't feel the least self-conscious that it is derived from Chinese.. Just like people now don't feel the least self-C that letters are derived from Phoenician alphabets..
I think they should invent new words with only semantic parts so all people can use it if they want.
You just repeated the number one in my list
I didn't really read your post..
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