Overseas Vietnamese returns for great national unity
http://www.vov.org.vn/2004_11_27/english/chinhtri1.htm

Nguyen Cao Ky meets with his friends during his early 2004 return to Ho Chi Minh

Nguyen Cao Ky, the former vice president of the Saigon regime, returned to Vietnam for the second time this year.

The 75-year-old man talked about his future plans and made recommendations regarding national development strategies. Mr Ky told Tin Tuc (The News) that this is the second time he has returned to Vietnam and he plans to resettle in the country for the rest of his life.

Mr Ky recalled that after his first return to Vietnam earlier this year, he was criticised by several politicians in the US. Later when they understood that his visit aimed to rebuild national reconciliation, they no longer showed their hostility.

"After returning to the US early this year, I told the Vietnamese community there about my true feelings about the country’s changes, particularly the goodwill of the whole nation. Tens of millions of Vietnamese people are making every effort to build a better life." Mr Ky also talked of his opinions about the drastic changes in the country recently, which sometimes helped his friends change their minds. "Knowing my intention to resettle in Vietnam again, they expressed their wish to go with me," Mr Ky said. "I am now 75 years old and I will try as much as I can to contribute to the cause of great national unity."

Mr Ky admitted that several politicians still showed a lack of goodwill towards Vietnam, but young overseas Vietnamese are now educated and they do not care about this.

"I think that hostility will become a thing of the past," said Mr Ky.

He criticised several [U.S.] congressmen who distorted the situation in Vietnam in order to gain more votes from overseas Vietnamese. "It is American officials who visited Vietnam and saw with their own eyes religious freedom in the country. More worshipping places were built and upgraded and religious followers are free to practice their religions."

Mr Ky said that he met some of his American friends and told them about the Government’s policy on religious freedom and he hoped that his friends will spread this to other Americans.

According to Mr Ky, tourism is considered one of the top priorities in national development strategies. He cited Taiwan, Japan, Singapore and Thailand as typical examples. At the beginning, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore and Thailand developed tourism to earn revenues and promote the image of their countries to the world. Later, they attracted a large amount of foreign investment.

"I think Vietnam has a geographically ideal location for tourism development and it can be a tourism centre for the region. I completely believe in the development of tourism in Vietnam", said Mr Ky. However, to develop tourism, he recommended that Vietnam should pay more attention to services and set competitive prices compared to other countries.

Mr Ky said he was happy to see more overseas Vietnamese return and do business in the homeland. He by chance met with an overseas Vietnamese, Dinh Duc Huu, who returned to Vietnam from the US and invested in the Thac Da tourist resort, about 70 kilometres from Hanoi. Returning to Vietnam this time, Mr Ky brought with him two competent experts in golf course and hotel designing. He took them to Phu Quoc island where they plan to invest. Mr Ky also spoke highly of the Government’s recent preferential policies towards Vietnamese nationals living abroad. Every year, he said, hundreds of thousands of overseas Vietnamese return and send billion of US dollars to the homeland.

He praised the Government’s plan to teach Vietnamese to overseas Vietnamese and said the move should be encouraged. Mr Ky said that he has a small dream and hopes it will come true.

"I wish to have a small house in the north, in the centre and the Mekong River Delta so I can travel from north to south and enjoy different distinctive features of these regions from specialities and thinking to language dialects. I think that my desire will be realised because our national spirit and blood will connect us close together."

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Read also

Saigon regime former vice President: "Birds always return to their nests"
11/27/2004 -- 09:36(GMT+7)

http://www.vnagency.com.vn/NewsA.asp?LANGU...&NEWS_ID=128777

* * *
BaoBinhDinh>>Trong nước - Thế giới

Ông Nguyễn Cao Kỳ muốn góp phần phát triển du lịch Phú Quốc
10:13', 12/11/ 2004 (GMT+7)

"Tôi tin tưởng Phú Quốc và đất nước sẽ phát triển tốt đẹp", đó là lời kết của ông Nguyễn Cao Kỳ trong cuộc trao đổi ngắn với giới báo chí ngay tại phòng chờ nhà ga sân bay Phú Quốc (Kiên Giang) vào trưa 10-11, trước khi ông cùng gia đình trở lại TP.HCM sau kỳ nghỉ 2 ngày tại Phú Quốc trong chuyến về thăm Việt Nam mới đây.

Ông Nguyễn Cao Kỳ và vợ tại sân bay Phú Quốc

Với vẻ lạc quan, ông Nguyễn Cao Kỳ tâm sự: "Lần về nước trước đây của tôi đã tạo ra bầu không khí hiểu biết tốt đẹp thì chuyến về nước lần này, tôi muốn góp phần vào sự phát triển kinh tế của đất nước".

Ông cho biết cùng về Việt Nam lần này với ông có hai doanh nhân người Mỹ, một người chuyên về đầu tư sân golf và một người chuyên về đầu tư khách sạn, để tìm hiểu cơ hội hợp tác và cả hai đều tỏ ra rất thích thú đối với các dự án phát triển du lịch của Phú Quốc.

Ông Kỳ nói: "Tôi không trực tiếp đầu tư một dự án nào, nhưng qua sự quen biết, tôi có thể giới thiệu và thuyết phục các doanh nhân ngoài nước đến thăm, tìm hiểu và đầu tư vào Việt Nam".

Nói về kỳ nghỉ tại Phú Quốc, ông Nguyễn Cao Kỳ cho biết ông rất phấn khởi khi được giới chức địa phương giới thiệu về những dự án và kế hoạch phát triển Phú Quốc thành một trung tâm du lịch chất lượng cao của cả nước, cả khu vực. Ông tỏ ra rất tâm đắc về các dự án này vì "không có điều gì giới thiệu về đất nước mình hay hơn là phát triển du lịch".

(Thanh Niên)

Đọc thêm bài

Ông Nguyễn Cao Kỳ: "Rồi chim lại bay về tổ"

http://www.vietnamnet.vn/chinhtri/doinoi/2004/11/350341/

Johannis , You'd better go back to Vietnam, you're now perfectly trained to work for the VC brainwashing media machine, only brainless morons like you trust these scrappy news.

For your information, this French educated guy ( what a coincidence ! ) just wants to be buried in his homeland , but since He was such a submissive puppet for Ameircans that VC find he is a good use in this role again. He should save his stamina for his last days instead of delivering these SHHIITTTS from what used to be his mouth .

All we wish is his rotten flesh fertilize some plants in So*n Tây land.

I love it when you insult NCK but please don't generalize. NCK is an insult to French-educated people everywhere as well as an insult to the South Vietnamese Air Force. He was last in his class at Avorne where a French instructor had given up on him, saying he refused to be on an airplane piloted by NCK. Americans wanted an incompetent, docile, idiotic Vietnamese at the helm in 65 and that's why he was given power.

Whoa whoa whoa... you guys need to chill. Johannjs is just trying to show you guys that Nguyen Cao Ky, the former South Vietnam vice president, who was anti-communist as best as he could be, now returns to Vietnam for national unity.

And you guys, a bunch of unknowns to the Viet community and Vietnam are against Ky going back to Vietnam to develop Vietnam and encourage Viet kieus doing the same? Aren't you putting Vietnam in harm's way by not letting it thrive?

Yes, I agree, Ky was an @$$hole (I hope he reads this), but if he could be an @$$hole to Vietnam, but now seeing the light to shine Vietnam, he is encouraging people to put aside the grude of the war and unite Viet people from all over the world.

Now, I know a bunch of you out there are still anti Vietnam and its communism rule, then be it, I don't give a $hit. But don't ever step back to Vietnam and have so much fun in Vietnam that you forget what you do back in the states.

If Ky could find a light in his dark heart to shine Vietnam, then I have no doubts that many of you teenagers overseas could find it to raise Vietnam.

God, how I hate S. Vietnam loyalists. Rot in hell!

God, how I hate communism. Rot in hell!

And furthermore, if all Viets could just unite, no foreigners will ever take advantage for themselves or of Viets.


Tah ta...

Hate the Communists for what they have done to Vietnam, not the Nationalists who had always defended Vietnam's national interest.

The economy of Vietnam is doing great in spite of the Communists, not because of them. South Vietnam is a very resilient country. Its economy keeps all Vietnamese heads above the water despite the corruption & graft of the Hanoi apparachiks.

I agree with DV and respect some others opinions, but no offense, each people have their point of view and i don't support or against any one, for the right to say of a younger generation i proubly to speak for what i thinks, corrects and teachs me as if i wrong, slap me silly or rubbing my head if i'm right.

I mean, we, the new generation don't know anything about the war, what was wrong and what was right, we can't blame who is doing what. My dad was in the south military and got treated badly same as the others after the war, but that's how that is, "thang lam vua, thua lam giac = if you win you become a king, if you loose you become an enemy" and that is the fact, no matter where you go it will still the same. Yet, people do not accept the fact that they lost and stuck with what they believe in rather than just forget it and move on. It is suck that VN fall into communist, and suck that we ran away for the freedom, but you guys ever think what it like to be controled by someone else? Well, i think you do, that's why our fathers and uncles fought thier heart out for it. and same as others, they thought the same way, that's why they fight for what they believes in and they proud of what they did even though it was the bad one or who they becomes. But it is very sucks sucks sucks that we're all Viet still fighting 'till these days, shiet, what the hell is that for? Can we undone for what the other did? Killing our own we called brothers, sisters, uncles, antz and long lost relatives for what we don't agree with? Is this what we call proud to be a Vietnamese? The freaking war is long gone, its just a history, why we have to raise up the hatress among our own VNmese?

"Now, I know a bunch of you out there are still anti Vietnam and its communism rule, then be it, I don't give a $hit. But don't ever step back to Vietnam and have so much fun in Vietnam that you forget what you do back in the states", GOOD CALL. i totally agree on this one. Have you all ever pay attention to how and why the birds, spiders and aintz always come back where their nests were? Even though they know its dangerous but still comes back? Well, because they believe that they will make a different and may be they will make the best out of it for the future, shiet, them things are animals, dirts and somewhat we called "un-human being" like and they can do that, why cannot us?

""Whoa whoa whoa... you guys need to chill. Johannjs is just trying to show you guys that Nguyen Cao Ky, the former South Vietnam vice president, who was anti-communist as best as he could be, now returns to Vietnam for national unity.

And you guys, a bunch of unknowns to the Viet community and Vietnam are against Ky going back to Vietnam to develop Vietnam and encourage Viet kieus doing the same? Aren't you putting Vietnam in harm's way by not letting it thrive?""

YES!! ARE YOU ALL GOING TO DO THAT? Are you all have gut to do things like him? Are you all ever thought of "well, i'm going back and help out the people over there"?? or You're all just want to go back and have some fun and have too much free times to insult other Viets do good things that you cannot do?

If anyone should "hate the communists for what they have done", then they should hate even more those who still pretend to be "nationalists", whereas they helped brutal invaders to genocide their people...

How many international war crime tribunals were set against the Vietnamese "communists"? none. How many international war crime tribunals were set against the so religiously moralist United States of America? many... and that's a simple fact.

Money is not all, and does not give (nor pay - and the USA don't pay) the right to invade a country and mass kill and rape at will, just because they know they are richer and stronger.

Anyway, there will be more US provoked "pre-emptive" wars and more killings and destructions, that could well spread again to Southeast Asia, and my only hopes are that Vietnam will not come in the way of any of those US idiot and mad crusades.

I wish that in the end G.W. Bush will face war crimes charges, or at least, that he'd be kidnapped, raped, and beheaded. That perhaps, symbolically, will help wash all American crimes of the last 50 years.

For all those who want to become amnesic:

It's not because the war is over that you can wipe out all the remembrances, you should know that future is based on the past. I mean , you cannot build a bright future from scratch because History is always a lesson, errors what were committed should not be repeated , victories and achievements are example to be inspired from. You cannot claim being proud of 4000 years of Vietnamese civilization and skip the war era 30 years ago. Sure that history of this period in still unclear because of American hypocrisy, Russian dissimulation, China's secret , not to mention VC's lies and brainwashing propaganda, Ngô Dinh Diêm was killed, South Vietnam's scarecrows are still under US's pressure as long as they live in the USA.

You should build your own opinion by reading books about vietnamese war, interviewing those who fled VN by boat.

But you should know that many of us have lost friends and relatives in this war (north and south). After the war, many innocents lost their lives in VC prisons, A great deal of our compatriots dared the dangerous sea in search for freedom, some successfully found a free refugee land, others died drowned, sarved, raped, killed by pirats on the sea.

Most of Those who were responsible for this massacre still rule VN. NCK lost no relatives during the war, good for him, but what he said is actually asking people to betray the memories of their friends and relatives. He can do whatever he wants, but he should stop giving advice to people because he has no idea of what Vietnam is nowadays up from his golf caddycar.


Would you forgive and let settle in your backyard the murderer who killed your father and who is threatening your life ???

Would you want to live in Germany if it was ruled by a new nazi regime because you didn't experienced WW2 and decide to ignore history ?

I have relatives killed by VC before 1954 , my father was killed in 1978 in Vietnamese goulag, I could never forget it until those who are responsible of these murders are jailed for life. I wish Kissinger, Vietnam war american Security adivsers, Thiêu, NCK, corrupted generals.... were jailed. That's why we moved to Switzerland a year after we arrived in the USA.

I am not nationalist, i just want to particpate into building a new Vietnam with justice, freedom, fraternity as supreme aims.

I encourage you people to go back to Vietnam to help people, but don't praise the regime as long as you have no real knowledge of what it is. How many of you have ever lived even a week in a remote big village in Central VN ? None, So just take your time to ge there and you will know the weird interpetation of freedom and equality of VC over there.

You mean the real nationalists ?! NCK isn't a nationalist, neither was Thiê.u.

Totally agree for the rest.

Sacré français. Ne rejoins pas lecôté obscur !

The man's wife has divorced him. He's a traitors to his comrade in arm. What shred of respect he has with the Vietnamese community abroad, has been lost. Nguyen Cao Ky, a man who sold his soul and priniciples to the communists for a pat on the the head. Another one the politicians that South Vietnam didn't need. His commentaries on Vietnam stands in stark contrast to human rights groups and people who actually lived in the country. He is another puppet for the commies to parade around.

I normally don't use this smilie, but



But I agree with ya that Ky was a traitor to South Vietnam though. What an @$$hole. Then I don't agree with ya on the puppet for the Viet-communists. He's just doing for the right cause, it's "chinh nghia."

Who are the brutal invaders? South Vietnam never invaded the North but rather it was North Vietnam with the support of the former Soviet Union and Red China who invaded South Vietnam. Get your facts straight.

Just because there aren't that many tribunals against the Viet Communists now doesn't mean there won't be any in the future where their crimes against humanity, lies and deceits are fully exposed to the world.

This shows that you don't even have a remote knowledge or a limited understanding of what America is all about. George Bush is not America.

Doan_du, save your verve for some other interesting topics to come, Johannjs is just a foolish moron who was brainwashed by all the communist propaganda. He has lost all objectivity and stopped thinking by himself for ages.

I'm sorry, I thought you all knew everything about the American War in Vietnam
Here we go again...



Here's a little film to remember all that again
http://just.nicepeople.free.fr/the_Vietnam_War_why.avi

.

So then ? Not a sole word about this American invasion.

I regret that Nguyê~n Khánh, NCK, Dương văn Minh... have sold South VN for a handful of dollars. The Diệm régime was tyranical, but Vn was threaten by war , and Diệm was a patriot, unlike this flock of corrupted generals.

At least, Americans have recognized their wrongdoings and crimes committed during Vn war, including Agent Orange. I support the action for AO victims.

As I said before, I wish Kissinger and those who supported the assassination of Diêm be tried, and those soldiers who killed innocent civilians (Amricans and south vietnamese)

But VC never recognize their crimes they began perpetrating in the early 1940's until nowadays. IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN VN. JUST NEVER PLACE A WORD AGAINST HCM NEITHER ASK FOR MORE FREEDOM AND RESPECT OF HUMAN RIGHT.

One other thing: As you can see through this article: IN THE USA, IT IS POSSIBLE TO CRITICIZE THE GOVERNMENT WITHOUT BEING PUT IN JAIL.


Last thing to close this topic hopefully: Don't demand me any proof, you can find full of documents about ViêtCông crimes just one click away. You can even find living evidence by asking Vietnamese in France who fled the country between 1975 and 1985.

Sideley,

When there is nothing else to say, learn to shut up.

Because of people of your kind, the Vietnamese abroad have gained that reputation of being all "fieffés menteurs" and "mythomanes" (unashamed and absolute pathological liars).

Johanjs,

You are also straying from the subject here. Send in a solution with a little more meat than just "fieffés menteurs" and "mythomanes"

Perhaps it is the way you are conditioned to communicate when you are challenged with facts. I notice you did not answer Sideley's questions but chose to generalize that all Viet Kieus are pathological liars - which by the way, include you.

When it comes to lying, the virtuoso performance of the Vietnamese Communist Party in front of the world is absolutely a fabulous work of the highest theatrical standard.

Oh, and I doubt that Sideley cares what liars in Vietnam think of him/her.

Now, seriuously,

Doan Du,
I'm not talking to you here, but about him. He's new on the board, and has not that many posts, so I suggest you read what he's posted. He's only a mythomaniac, playing unashamed cry-babies to search for sympathy.

Concerning his question, and yours (?), it was no question: every body here understands who were the brutal foreign invaders. Don't pretend to reverse the situation, into that of the Vietnamese invading their own country!? nobody with a logical mind will listen to that. North, South? even the invaders themselves have admitted they had nothing to do in that far away land. So, beat it.



As to you, Doan Du, glad to know you were on the side of those foreign invaders, when they killed your countrymen, when they raped your people, and when they genocided whole villages of Vietnamese.

That makes things much clearer, when I'm addressing you.



Hundreds of people of my family died in that stupid war.

So now, I'm talking to you: the only so-you-called-them "South Vietnamese nationalists" I can see, are probably those who could always take the money and run? ...and let the common people die...

Shame on you all... Are you one of them? You can talk about the virtuoso! So, I'll tell you too: Shut up, Doan Du! Don't you look forward to the future yet.

Right now, YOU ARE THE CRIMINALS.





Now you are asking "Who were the brutal foreign invaders?"

They have had to admit to their crimes, and you still want to defend them? YOU ARE THE SHAME FOR YOUR RACE, and for all those who know you! Never forget that! And you can start eat up all the bloody bull$hit now.


YOU ARE THE MURDERERS OF YOUR PEOPLE.


Doan Du, that's your real name, isn't it? and you work at a business school in HCMC? just few months ago, you wrote this about why you left the USA for Lausanne : "I don't have to deal with more debt, more wars, less freedom and dumb people." so now you've changed your mind all over again? Regrets? I'm not particularly defending anyone here, nor any government or system. But you should be very careful from now on. And keep your distances.
.

Of course, Doan Du, everybody knows that they speak French in Vietnam! 2
[/quote]

Who speak French in Vietnam? I am sorry I don't quite understand your joke. 95% of the people that I met in Vietnam don't have any Gallic vocabulary.

[quote]
Now, seriuously,

Doan Du,
I'm not talking to you here, but about him. He's new on the board, and has not that many posts, so I suggest you read what he's posted. He's only a mythomaniac, playing unashamed cry-babies to search for sympathy.
[/quote]

Be that if it may but Sideley in particular and all Vietkieus in general do not deserve to be called names. If I were to call you a "ve^m." (I suggest you look up a South Vietnamese dictionary for this term - it's not flattering), I would expect to be banned immediately and it would be 100% justified, for instance (and please note I am NOT calling you by this name). No matter what your behavior might be, such language is not justifiable. However, pointing out that the Vietnamese Communist Party is an organization of thugs and liars - both demonstrably true - is a perfectly reasonably thing to do.

[quote]
Concerning his question, and yours (?), it was no question: every body here understands who were the brutal foreign invaders. Don't pretend to reverse the situation, into that of the Vietnamese invading their own country!? nobody with a logical mind will listen to that. North, South? even the invaders themselves have admitted they had nothing to do in that far away land. So, beat it.
[/quote]

Last time I checked there were two Vietnams - two separate countries with different political systems - starting in 1954. So either you lied and made $hit up or you lack the education and/or you have learned nothing from the lessons of history that you pervert here. I thought an education in France would enable a person to become a bit more realistic about his politics but I guess like Pol Pot, Ieng Sary and others, a sense of history does not greatly aid the maturation of their views. It's sad to see a fellow Viet who lives in the free world - the land of Liberty, Egality and Fraternity- chooses to support a government that suppresses those qualities from its own people, using convoluted nonsense.

[quote]This is a brutally simple standard. Its appeal-and its power-derives not just from its simplicity but from its immediate grasp by every moral person. Every child understands this standard and every loving parent recalls it for his children when they stray from it.

If you have to lie about something, it is wrong.

By this standard, the Vietnam War was wrong, terribly wrong. The singular hallmark of official conduct throughout the War was the amount of lying that went on to justify it. Not just periodic lying. Not just localized lying. Not just lying about nits. And not just lying by one political side or the other.

Multiple presidents lied to us for years about Vietnam because they didn't want to be "the first American president to lose a war."

Our "intelligence" agencies lied to us repeatedly about the threat from a nation of pre-Industrial Age farmers on the other side of the world who, after more than a century of domination, simply wanted to be left alone by western imperial powers.

The State Department lied, not just to the American people but to the entire world, about our prolonged, illegal bombings of Laos and Cambodia.

The Pentagon Papers showed us that the military was saturated with lies, from field-level body counts to strategic reviews of progress to fundamental assessments of the War's ultimate winnability.

Congress lied for years about how the War could be financed without raising taxes and without cutting Great Society programs. The result was the economic debacle of the 1970s.

And the American people lied to themselves about the War. As long as the boys fighting it were blacks and Latinos and members of the underclass, everything was fine. The Defense contracts were fat and everybody was eating high on the hog. [/quote]

It is equally sad that amids the vast information available in the free world, the sea of libraries and cosmos of books to check for available facts, you chose to believe the leftist craps written on bathroom walls. You have no special view on history, other than that of a person who obviously doesn't give a $hit about honesty, reality, or human compassion. That't really admirable. And do you know you look bad when you're claiming superior knowledge which has not yet been manifest in your posts?

[quote]

As to you, Doan Du, glad to know you were on the side of those foreign invaders, when they killed your countrymen, when they raped your people, and when they genocided whole villages of Vietnamese.

That makes things much clearer, when I'm addressing you.
[/quote]

The only genocide I know were committed by the people that you praise so vehemently like they are your dad. In 68, your countrymen killed 5,000 innocent men, women and children in Hue, burying many of them alive in mass graves. In 72, Communist troops fired on civilians fleeing the fighting on National Route 1 ner Quang Tri City. The road were littered with dead bodies that people still refer it as the Road of Horror to this day. When the people of Nghe An protested against land reform, your beloved Ho Chi Minh razed down entires villages of his own people. Need I go on?


[quote]By the late 1960s, the fabric of lies that had sustained the War started to unravel. The Tet offensive in early 1968 demolished the upbeat fiction that we were winning the War. Stories of massacres like My Lai began to leak out. Idiocies like, "We had to destroy the village/town in order to save it," crept into the public lexicon.

Live news footage showed the horrors of saturation bombing, defoliation, and napalm. Supposedly serious voices spoke supposedly seriously about, "bombing them back into the stone age."
[/quote]
Hundreds of people of my family died in that stupid war.

So now, I'm talking to you: the only so-you-called-them "South Vietnamese nationalists" I can see, are probably those who could always take the money and run? ...and let the common people die...

Shame on you all... Are you one of them? You can talk about the virtuoso! So, I'll tell you too: Shut up, Doan Du! Don't you look forward to the future yet.

Right now, YOU ARE THE CRIMINALS.


[/quote]

There's little in your posts to rebut, unfortunately. They're incredibly light on substance and heavy on insult. The fact that you won't gleefully spell out who are the authors of your sources suggest that I'm right about your education. People who are genuinely experts on a subject will, to a mone, rise to the occasion of proving it. You don't. You have a ridiculous and infantile response, and you bring nothing of substance. I think you're an old man who thinks you're the only one reading Vietnamese government approved publications. I don't believe you have any kind of graduate degree either. You certainly write like someone who's made it that far along.

[quote]Only some few references here.

On one of so many American gratuitous massacres of civilians in Vietnam: My Lai
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr...ntimesmag89.pdf

On Henry Kissinger and Richard Nixon: the nuclear option to win the war in Vietnam
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...nixon-tapes.htm

On the specific International War Crimes Tribunal in 1967 against the United States of America.
http://www.911review.org/Wget/www.homeuser...on/v1tribun.htm

ON TERROR WAR, ORGANIZED CRIMES AND SEX HUNT TOURS FOR 2.5 MILLION US SOLDIERS/MERCENARIES
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/...reher_Rape.html

>> they raped her--every man raped her. As a matter of fact one man said to me later that it was the first time he had ever made love to a woman with his boots on... But at any rate, they raped the girl, and then, the last man to make love to her shot her in the head. <<

On Bill Clinton
[...] when asked if he thought the United States owed the people of Vietnam an apology, 25 years after the end of the war, Clinton said, simply, "No, I don't."

[...] To apologize for crimes against the people of Vietnam would be to admit that the stories we tell ourselves about our conduct in the world -- then and now -- are a lie.

To apologize would be to acknowledge that while we claimed to be defending democracy, we were derailing democracy. While we claimed to be defending South Vietnam, we were attacking the people of South Vietnam.

[...] we dropped 6.5 million tons of bombs and 400,000 tons of napalm on the people of Southeast Asia. Saturation bombing of civilian areas, counterterrorism programs and political assassination, routine killings of civilians and 11.2 million gallons of Agent Orange to destroy crops and ground cover -- all were part of the U.S. terror war in Vietnam, as well as Laos and Cambodia.[/quote]


Now you are asking "Who were the brutal foreign invaders?"

They have had to admit to their crimes, and you still want to defend them? YOU ARE THE SHAME FOR YOUR RACE, and for all those who know you! Never forget that! And you can start eat up all the bloody bull$hit now.


YOU ARE THE MURDERERS OF YOUR PEOPLE.

[/quote]

Stop flinging "YOU ARE THE MURDERERS OF YOUR PEOPLE" like a five-year-old angry at Daddy. Who still subject the South Vietnamese today - 30 years after the war - to a life of a slave? Compared to you, I am very educated. And I learned long ago not to trust people like you, nor respect your opinions. You show you care nothing about Vietnam, truth, or compassion. If there is one thing that I know from history it's that your people don't learn from history.

[quote]

Doan Du, that's your real name, isn't it? and you work at a business school in HCMC? just few months ago, you wrote this about why you left the USA for Lausanne : "I don't have to deal with more debt, more wars, less freedom and dumb people." so now you've changed your mind all over again? Regrets? I'm not particularly defending anyone here, nor any government or system. But you should be very careful from now on. And keep your distances.
.

[/quote]

What if it is my name? Hahahaha........ I see that not only you have some fundamental misunderstandings of american political history but also Vietnamese popular culture as well. You're sooooo far behind in your ability to comprehend these issues, this forum couldn't hope to educate and bring you current....And to answer your question, I don't have any regret leaving the USA. I always love the country, just hate its leader(s) for now.

You are not defending any government or system? Then why do you insult Sideley and I for calling the VCP for what it is?

very good

Great, this should be every Vietnamese's mentality.

To the pretentious self-indulged Doan Du,

1/ Just one word about you. There can be only one reason for you to defend the foreign invaders: your feelings of guilt (and shame). A guilt even greater than that of those who committed the genocide. If you could justify their crimes, you would justify your even greater moral crime and fault. This concerns you, and probably your family.

"Doan Du", so that's your new fake-name on your passport? You really believe you can be as honorable as the prince of Dai Ly, as in Thien Long Bat Bo? YOU IDIOT MYTHOMANIAC ! you were in Shanghai, not in a "far away land in the South of China". So, that's your Viet culture?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to insult anyone. Only their private individual truths can be insults to them, to their family. With time, I know they feel their mythomania becomes a permanent insult.

Les services sociaux français vous considèrent, vous, les petits réfugiés vietnamiens, comme de véritables psychopathes; néanmoins, ils mettent ce trait de caractère des Vietnamiens sur le compte du traumatisme subi par l'évacuation. La deuxième génération s'en sort mieux, et surtout, ils ne parlent plus le français petit nègre (tiếng Tây bồi), et ne racontent plus d'histoires à dormir debout, sachant bien maintenant que c'est inutile, parce que les Français ne croient plus à ces histoires.


2/ Your post is unreadable. How can you, the educated Doan Du, re-read such trash? Never mind.

Read all over again and mark/highligt what you have not understood in my post. And click on the links I gave. The references are included. They come from the Pentagon papers and Congress reports, which were released in 2001, following the research needs for the 9/11 Commission report, and some came from the sessions report at the International War Crimes Tribunal of 1967.

As for all the full-scale destructions and massacres of 1968 of a great number of villages and towns in Vietnam (including Hue) by the Americans and their South-Vietnamese allies, read that thread about the Hue Massacre in the Serious Talk section. They are all American documents, not Vietnamese.


***
To the rest of you all,

I didn't want to bother you with the war and its atrocities. There are quite a number of idealist Vietnamese, in Vietnam and abroad, who believe in this "Great National Unity" campaign. I don't. But I do respect very much their efforts in doing what they do.

Personally, I don't see the Vietnamese people as a unified nation, but rather as a nation still thriving hard, and with too many egoistic peoples whose individual goals, interests and hopes will always be placed above national interests.

I'm amused at every of their successes, sympathized with their feelings, their efforts, but it's true, I cannot feel 100% solidarity with all Vietnamese, for the same reasons they can't overcome their individualism.

Anyway, just let us all wait (until 2020?) and see how things will be.

I have a lot of new found respect for NCK. He was a total disgrace during his service in the old SV regime, but what he been doing for the past few years is very inspiring to young Vietnamese world wide. I've read of lectures he gave a university and his thought on how he wants the young generation to look forward and not be like their parents wasting times on the past. His trip to Vietnam and now this articile shows that he is determined to make Vietnam better with whatever little he could do in his old age. Very inspiring.

You are an idiot who can't stay on the topic. What does my family has anything to do in here? The only people who killed the Viet race are the Communists under Ho who led them to the slaugterhouse in 30 years.

However, that is not what is being discussed here. Being psychologically comfortable with that belief when that belief is held only by a small minority of people within the VCP, and when quite a few of your French friends try to convert you must be well-night impossible, like your Dad(s) are.

Not being respected by the general Vietnamese population for those beliefs makes you psychologically comfortable?...How?



And Johanjs? Isn't that Dutch? Did some Dutchmen jump on your mother? You insulted, and you lied. You gave no inch.. You made a blanket insult and false statements. "Then you defend the foreign invader" That is a lie, to a) insinuate that my father fought for South Vietnam on behalf of foreigners and B) that others who didn't agree with you are the same. You're just a fu-king liar and bully, trying to intimidate those who have a point against your ugliness and post it here.. Tell the truth, Johannjs. I've outed you lying here many, many times, making up $hit and trying to pass it off as fact. And you don't like being exposed for the liar you are. So you pretend I have no point, and that I don't know what I'm talking about. That makes you just look stupid.



Whine, little person, and piss and moan, and lie some more, and maybe someone is as stupid and as bigoted as you and your kind, and they might believe you. But they are the only ones. You're just a fu-king loser liar, trying to pretend you're intelligent. No, you're not. Liars and bigots are not known for their intelligence, just their assholinees. Aren't you proud?



La France est belle. La seule chose qui soit laide dans le paysage francais c'est toi, connard.



Huh? who wrote that? Time to drop the crack pipe. It's not doing you any good. By the way, I have never claimed to be educated, just smarter than asswipes like you.



As I said before, put the crack pipe down slowly and take a step closer to the remnants of your brain. You must accept your problem before getting better. It's Congressional Reports, not Congress reports. The Pentagon papers dealt with the truth about the US military's purported conduct in Vietnam, unlike your crony Daddy who has withheld all information to this day, continued to "educate" the Vietnamese youth with hate with distorted version of history and rewritten the entire history of Vietnam with lies and bigotries. Furthermore, your Daddy continues to subvert free speech and assembly, prohibits multi-party political system and arbitrary arrests people using massive security police.




written by communist queers....My cousin directed the South Vietnamese Hac Bao - the commandos of the 1st Infantry under General Truong - to kick your daddy's little @$$ out of Hue in 68. Afterward, he went to Gia Hoi to help the town people to dig up the bodies of their love ones killed by Communist troops. The brutal executions of Vietnamese civilians even horrified the leftist Trinh Cong Son. But what do you know anyway? In a supposedly "democratic" North Vietnam, you are an elitist who went in France. It's typically arrogant of of people such as yourself to look down on others, but they do it a way that's so hypocritically oblique that they don't even see it in themselves. I see them all the time. They claim to have superior Hanoian culture but squat next to their boxes (yes, they travel with boxes like they are carrying bathroom sinks in them) in the middle of modern Bangkok airport, complaining how "inferior" the Thais are to them.


Your limited brain functions have relegated your daddy from world leader pretend to anything else. Do you think you can fool young people in here using that
bell on the Vietnam's firetruck? Selling Vietnam as a country of reason, justice, freedom and achievement?

Say, isn't that red just a traditional color on firetrucks and not the symbol of communism? And that Vietnamese women are not being sold to China and Kampuchea as prostitutes and second wives? that Vietnam is not now a new distribution center for heroin out of the Golden Triangle? No, Johanjs, young people are much smarter than you give them credit for. They know that Vietnam, despite being an oil-producing nation, is still unable to process its reserves into fuel and other carbohydrate products, that 78% of the tourists coming to Vietnam never come back for a second tour, that top communist officials bilked the national budget out of billion of dollars for their own personal uses, that in order to produce, Vietnamese companies need "permission" from men who produce nothing and know nothing, that money flows to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors, that men are getting richer by pull than by work and most of all, your Daddy's laws don't protect honest people but protect your Daddy against honest people. They know Vietnam is a nation that sees corruption being rewarded and honesty being a self-sacrifice.

In the year 2020, I know I will see you ordering mass arrests on people who rise up and protest against the government. You would be great at that.

^Doan Du, was the Hac Bao unit the recon company of the 1st Infantry Division ? i've heard that company was holding the division's headquarter for a day, against assault from a whole NVA division, until being relieved; is it true ?

[quote=Doan Du,Nov 29 2004, 09:51 AM]
Tah ta...

[/quote]

Hate the Communists for what they have done to Vietnam, not the Nationalists who had always defended Vietnam's national interest.

The economy of Vietnam is doing great in spite of the Communists, not because of them. South Vietnam is a very resilient country. Its economy keeps all Vietnamese heads above the water despite the corruption & graft of the Hanoi apparachiks.

[/quote]

Thank you. You make sense. And it's the truth.

Actually, NTV, it was the brave clerks and secretaries of the 1st Division's headquarter that actually repulsed 2 NVA's attacks in the northwest corner of Dai Noi in 68. They held the fort with antiquated M1 and M2 carbines and Colt-45's. A lot soldiers of the 1st Infantry were on Tet's leave.

The 300-men Hac Bao team was indeed the 1st Infantry Division's recon company. They also fought in Laos in 71 where my cousin disappeared with some of his men trying to harrass NVA troops and hope to delay their counterattack on our retreating mechanized units in A Shau Valley. I am not sure where he died but I hope he died on South Vietnamese land where he had sworn to protect as an officer of the Army of the Republic of South Vietnam.

the a shau valley that had a US special forces camp and was overrun by NVA tanks ?

Thanks Johannjs for posting these articles. It is always interesting to be informed of things regardless of the politics involved. I, however, believe Ky to be a self-serving, opportunistic puppet. He is correct when he says that there are more pagodas and churches in Vietnam now than before, however, he is evading the central fact (that a MOST non-Vietnamese will miss) that these are all state sponsored buildings erected under the auspices of the Communist government (a government which still stands for the There No's: No Family, No Religion, No Country). Many true Vietnamese Christians and Buddhists would not consider these buildings real places of worship or devotion. Ironically enough, there may be more religious STRUCTURES in Vietnam now, but there is also more religious persecution than ever. Just look at what happened to the Mennonite groups last month and the Christians in the Central Highlands previous to that. The Vietnamese Communist government only understands conformity and money, and they are looking to people like Ky to bring them plenty of both.

As for the younger Vietnamese that Ky seems to be aiming his message at, YOU have to decide what is worthy of support. For every dollar/euro/dong that you help bring into the present Vietnam, that gives the Communist government the power and the resources to continue to oppress and persecute those that will not conform. Ronald Reagan (and the Republicans of his era) was right with the strategy of causing Communist governments to fall through embargos and simply outspending them. With no resources to arm and fuel them, the people quickly toppled the Communist oppressors of the past. Wouldn't it be nice to see Vietnam do the same?

rage

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. There's two ways oversea Vietanmese can do to help Vietnam become a democracy. The first option is like you said, embargos upon embargos, don't send money to Vietnam and it will lead the communist to fall. This, I don't think will work. As Vietnam become poor, it's still the people that are at loss. The corruption will be even more corrupt as the commies will be even more strict on the people. Commies won't fall as we've seen throughout the 80s with trading embargos upon Vietnam, and people lived miserably because of it and the commie regime didn't falter.

The second option is to do business with Vietnam and even promote closer ties between oversea Vietnamese with Vietnamese at home. Help Vietnam become richer regardless of communist or not. Even though 1 out of every 10 dollars we spend will go to corrupted officials, but so what? At least 9 dollars get through. People will enjoy better living condition, education improve, and as they get more in touch with free countries across the globe, they will give the communist gov't up voluntarilly.

Not only is the 2nd option better, it's easier to execute. The 2nd option is in the work right now. The first option won't work at all since there isn't a red scare in the US anymore, so they won't bother with embargos. Vietnamese oversea will go back to the homeland to do business since there's a market there. And globalization is in effect, so eventually young Vietnamese will find their way home regardless of what gov't its under.

,Just to bring back this interesting thread (just ignore insults )

interesting.

You're correct about "freedom of religion" in Vietnam. Some don't realized that all the main churches had been outlawed and only churches run by government are allowed to operate.

I don't believe everything in the article Johannjs posted. I also don't like some of the old VNCH leaders but I don't think Ky said all that. Its a common practice of CSVN to twist the facts to propagate their agendas. Just listen to Ky interview.

from BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/vietnamese/regionalne...uyencaoky.shtml

Trong một lá thư đề ngày 24-1 gửi báo Thanh Niên và một số cơ quan, tổ chức trong ngoài nước, ông Nguyễn Cao Kỳ nói mình ''rất phẫn nộ'' và viết thư để ''sửa sai người viết''.

"Trong bài gọi là phỏng vấn nêu trên, tôi thấy tác giả đã thiếu trung thực và cắt xén có dụng ý xấu."

Nội dung đăng trên báo Thanh Niên dẫn lời ông Kỳ nói: "Từ ông Thiệu đến những ông khác dưới trướng, xin lỗi, toàn là những vị ăn chơi phè phỡn, tài không có mà đức cũng không. Trước đây có "ông" Mỹ đứng sau thì không có chuyện gì, nhưng khi phải một mình trực tiếp đối diện với khó khăn thì bản chất cũng như tài năng lộ ra ngay."

Nay ông Kỳ viết trong thư rằng thật sự ông đã chỉ trích một số tướng lĩnh miền Nam:

"Đúng là tôi đã từng nói lên những nhận xét của mình về một số tướng lãnh già nua, giữ những chức vụ thật quan trọng trong quân đội miền Nam là tham nhũng, bè phái, không tài, không đức, ảnh hưởng lớn lao đến tinh thần và khả năng chiến đấu của quân đội."

Tuy nhiên, ông lên tiếng rằng mình không chỉ nói như vậy:

"Từ trước và cho tới ngày hôm nay, tôi cũng luôn luôn xác định lòng dũng cảm, hy sinh của tập thể đông đảo những chiến binh miền Nam (các cấp tá, úy, hạ sỹ quan, binh sỹ). Họ, cũng như tất cả những chiến binh miền Bắc qua nhiều thế hệ liên tiếp đã đem xương, máu trải lên khắp các nẻo đường đất nước, với một ước nguyện linh thiêng là bồi đắp cho non sông Việt ngày càng tươi đẹp và phồn thịnh hơn."

"Chưa bao giờ và sẽ không bao giờ tôi lại căn cứ vào một số ít phần tử xấu để mạ lỵ cả một tập thể to lớn đã từng chia xẻ ngọt bùi với tôi, mà tôi biết về họ một cách đầy đủ và tường tận."

"Trong lời kết, bài báo viết rằng đây là câu chuyện của quá khứ. Nhưng nhắc lại quá khứ chính là để hiểu hiện tại nên không thể không chính xác và nhất là không được thiên lệch."

Trong thư, ông Nguyễn Cao Kỳ tuyên bố ông rất đồng tình với chính sách hòa giải của chính phủ Việt Nam hiện nay, nói đây là "chính sách tốt đẹp, phù hợp với nguyện vọng của toàn dân, trong cũng như ngoài nước."

Ông nói vì vậy ông xem nội dung đăng trên báo là ''làm tổn hại đến quá trình tạo dựng hòa hợp dân tộc."

Sure that all these are propaganda. Anayway, Ky is just an unsignificant personnage. No one cares of what he said.

What a retard thread. VN war and hatred among vietnamese themself just because of some stupid ideologies brought into VN from foreign countries by Ho Chi Minh and Ngo Dinh Diem.


2 ways to destroy Communism: poverty or wealth. It can't be destroyed by gun power because it is based on violent revolutions . Vietnam was starving in the 80s because of embargo, wars, the cut off of supplies from Soviet, famine, exodus of boat people leaving, boycotting economy... load of $hits etc. and it didn't collapse. Going back to the 80s again for Vietnam is the most stupid idea i ever heard honestly. Improving the economy, creat more jobs by investment from outside, people gets more money, when they have the money power, they will demand and get more access to information, rights, freedom, ideas, education all kind of good stuff. So in my opinion, going against the improving vietnam's economy, our people's life, and prevent others from investing in VN is exactly going against the process to gain freedom and change the communist regime in our country Vietnam. Anyone who still trying to critic the corruption of VC need to understand and know that South Vietnamese Government was corrupted as much as them, if not more than that. And the South economy was crappy before 1975 even under "capitalism", everything was the illusion created by US dollars pumping everyday to the South. When the US troops left, the illusion bubble bursted... Same thing for the North....
Vietnam was a big testing battlefield and our people was being the mercenaries for foriegn forces. However, it is impossible to stop the hatred between old generations because they lost so much both sides. Young generations after the war don't give a fu-k about cong san ( in VN ) or the South Vietnam Government ( oversea ). That is why NCK focus on the young people. He's not a retard. Young people in VN and oversea will creat a miracle for VN in future and they will be united, topple the VC.

I agree that there are two ways to bring back democracy to VN : by force or by wealth. So far, economy openess has brought wealth to corrupt officials and foreign investors who got involved in scams and embezzlement (sure that the average Vnmese has alsoe benefitted a little) but the country could have developped further under the rule of law established by a true democracy.

By force: I don't think people in VN would support it because they will suffer first before the communism evil being eradicated.

Nguyen Cao Ky has no lesson to give to VNmese youth. He was a very corrupt man under the VNCH regime.

What stupid ideology did Ngô Dinh DIêm introduce in Vietnam ? Nepotism, tyrany has always existed in VN long history.

What do you know about VNCH economy ? Even communist econimists admit that VNCH economy was very well developped in spite of the status of war and was not so dependent of the US:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/vietnamese/programmes...wk14_2005.shtml

[quote=Sideley,Sep 24 2005, 06:08 PM]

Ngo Dinh Diem was considered to bring the idea of democracy and capitalism to South VN, before he turned himself into a dictator, just like Ho Chi Minh and his oligarchy party. It's just the lust for power, they borrowed the so called "advanced, new" ideas from Western ( communism originated from Karl Max - Germany; the idea of American democracy... thank god they didn't borrow Fascism from Hitler ) into VN in order to rise to power. So you see, if you have only 1 guy brought 1 idea, that's enough for a dictatorship, but if you have more than 1, it's gonna be a bloody civil war for power, and yeah... you can blame it on colonism see how Africa become of what it is today ?
I know some stuff about VNCH economy because my dad worked for the Economic Department of it and he also worked in the president palace. The stuff you see on news... they are rubbishs, they judge the South economy based on how it looked outside you know. I can give you some facts: all the salaries paid by VNCH, from millions of soldiers to clerks including the president were paid by the US ( my dad's job was to made those paychecks and stuff ). Taxation simply couldn't support it. The agriculture were totally destroyed, war raged, bomb holed, farmers got harrassed by South soldiers and US troops by day, by night they got jacked, terrorised and killed by VC. In fact, most of the rice the South was eating before 1975 came from Thailand, those Thais made a fortune out of us by selling foods paid by the US. Cheap industrial products came from Japan and Korea ( actually, they came with the US troops but some of them were smuggling out, there was very few factories and decent industrial district in the South ). And business ? what are you talking about, lots of them were owned by Chinese Vietnamese in Cho Lon and the rest of services and stuff were for US troops. After US troops left, the service sector just simply went broke. The grass is not greener on the other side . But hey, what did the North get from Soviet and China ? Tons and tons of weapons, foods, heavy tanks, fuels, clothes ... but they just concentrated too much on military supplies, no wonder how life and economy was crappy in the North but they won by that ....
NCK is a badass but at least he's out there doing something like that which will creat jobs, give a positive attitude to the new generations, inspire young vietnameses to do something that help the country... and well, he and his rich friends might doing investments because of his greed for money, but many vietnameses can get benefits from that. That's capitalism. I'm feeling kinda retard because of sitting here wasting time for useless talk about this rather than doing something real for our people and our country's future.
Enough said... just my 0.02$

by the way, don't trust the new 100% - anywhere ...

1. This criticism about an article on the magazine Thanh Nien ("Nội dung đăng trên báo Thanh Niên") has nothing to do with my post.

2. Read also about what he said in the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

and what he always has said
http://just.nicepeople.free.fr/Nguyen_Cao_Ky_interview.pdf

.

Its great that Mr. NCK is trying to unite the ppl of Vietnam. But do you think CSVN is helping? they just took down the "boat people" memorials in Bidong and Indonesia, trashed the VNCH Bien Hoa cemetery, etc..... and distorted Mr. Ky comments on VNCH leaders. Like you, I support his effort but don't believe everything on the news. Jusk listen to Mr. Ky at BBC in his own words about how CSVN news distorted his comments.

edit: unfortunately he's a tool for CSVN to attract investments not because CSVN have passion for the other half

I'll say let's lock him up for not talking his daughter out of having too many plastic surgeries. she used to be very pretty but now .

Yes, birds always have to fly home to their nests.