Found this interesting article.
Hopefully it'll educate those Viets who think we're related to Southern Chinese people and set things straight.

There was no " Proto-Vietnamese ' in southern China !

The indigenous Bai Yue bloodline is an undisputed genetic component of modern day Han-Chinese in Guandong & Guangxi,however,there have been recorded massive migrations from northern China so today's population is a mixture of northern Han ( of Sinitic origin ) and various indigenous Bai Yue groups ( Austronesian & Austro-Asiatic origins ).

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...cgi?artid=21714

Quote: " genetic evidence does not support an independent origin of Homo Sapiens in China ".The phylogeny also suggested that it is more likely that ancestors of the populations currently residing in East Asia entered from Southeast Asia." from the abstract, and "Now that we have established that populations in East Asia were subjected to genetic contributions from multiple sources: Southeast Asia, Altaic from northeast Asia, and mid-Asia or Europe. It would be interesting to estimate relative contributions from each source.Unfortunately,the current study involved only mostly minority populations.A study involving populations across the country is necessary to reveal such a picture"
At the conclusion,what I see is that the study is more of Chinese minority groups than the larger Han Chinese majority.It seems to suggest and enforce Li Hui theory of at least one of the 3 streams of transmigratory routes taken by Chinese peoples,the stream of genetic marker M119 ( where the Viets belong ) whose path was through northern SE asia into China and they contain Bai Yue and other minorities like Dai but not Han Chinese. So it sort of confirm " the current study involved only mostly minority populations " in the article on PNAS and they " entered from Southeast Asia " ( not the Han Chinese, mind you).

Li Hui asserts that Han Chinese are M117 genetic marker and Viets & Bai Yue are M119. Viets do not share the M122 genetic marker with the Han-Chinese. M117 and M7 stemed from M122,which the Viet ethnic is not.

I read the other article on PNAS, and quote

"Usually, most Chinese immigrants to the U.S. ( and to other countries, like Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, etc. ) come from southern China, and this is certainly true of the cell lines from California residents from China born in the mainland, collected by Louise Chen and Alice Lin at Stanford and used in our surveys (2, 7, 8). Han-Chinese living in the south of China mostly came originally from the North, but they did so at very different times, and thus had different times for gene flow from the earlier settlers,that is the minorities"

The statement sort of confirm Han Chinese from south China " mostly came originally from the north ", which substantiate Li Hui theory of one of his 3 streams where in one stream the peoples passed through tibetan plateau to arrive in North China were ancestors of the Han-Chinese and Tibetans, carrying the genetic marker M117.PNAS site states that "Han-Chinese living in the south of China mostly came originally from the north, but they did so at very different times".

Virtually all Han Chinese share the same paternal and maternal lineage except for few southern groups that had Austronesian maternal ancestors.The many migrations ( referenced Tang & Song history chronicles ) into southern China have diluted the bloodlines.

The fact is that the Han Chinese majority and ethnic Vietnamese [b]didn't share a common root[/b].Any culture similarity,language similarity and genetic similarity in the south are due to chinese expansion to the south,and cultural diffusion, and mixing with the local people but not by common root. its simple as that.It is a fact that Vietnamese culture shares similarities with Chinese culture is due to Chinese influence like how Chinese influenced Korean and Japanese,not by common root.Another fact that the northern Han-Chinese migrated southward in large numbers and some have mixed with the locals and that's the reason they are genetic related ( same scenario with both Chinese & Japanese or Chinese & Koreans because their ancestors originally from Asia continent which is today's China excluding Russian Far East Territory & outer Mongolia ).

Series of civil warfare, rebellions, famines and barbarian invasions in Northern China led to mass migrations of Chinese people from devastated Northern China to the fertile and peaceful Southern China. An estimated 20 million people migrated from Northern China to Southern China from 800AD – 1250AD, to flee from prosecution and escape from the destitute and war-ridden Northern China.Through these waves of migrations to the south,Middle Chinese language was brought into Southern China.Eventually evolved into several dialects,a major one of these dialects is Cantonese.

Vietnamese is an Austro-Asiatic language,not Austronesian.Thus the language is related to that of the Khmers and Mons.The negrito people of Malaya (Asli people) also speak this language.In this latter case,it is likely they were a mixed race adopting the language of the dominant group). We should also note that the original speakers of Austro-asiatic (and for that matter, Austronesian) are also Mongoloids.The differences in features only indicate the amount of negrito blood in them due to intermarriage. Paleolithic Negrito people (who look like the Australian Aborigines) lived in most of Southeast Asia and South China prior to the big migration of Mongoloids southwards, which displaced these peoples. Other contribution of course also include climate and diet.


It is a fact that Vietnamese language has at least 60% of Chinese loanwords due to Chinese cultural influence and dominance,50% of Chinese loanwords in Korean and Japanese languages,again not by common roots.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_post...=24700&PN=1

2nd to last paragraph shows that Viets and Khmers may share the same mongoloid root. However, Khmers possibly intermixed more with negritos. So today we are less of the same.

yes and minh tri looks chinese not viet so please stop telling people that he looks viet

If you are Vietnamese and have single eyelids it's mostly likely that somewhere in your family tree, someone married a mixed person (who was 1/2, 1/4... Miao/Hmong or Han Chinese, etc...).

I know this family. The parents have double eyelids, but one of their 6 children has single eyelids. The single eyelided one still looks like their siblings though (the facial bones, height, body hair, skin color ...).


Qin soldiers, 2000 years ago:

Not necessarily. A lot of Vietnamese people have single lids 30-40%. Most are non-southern Viets or recent southern Viets. Which means they're more Vietnamese less mixed.

For asians, single lids are just like double lids. Just eyes. What differentiates asian ethnics from each other are more of their overall facial features.

You guys seriously haven't seen many single lid Viets?? That is strange to me.

Even online I can easily find clips and pictures of single lid Viets.

LMAO posting kids when they are laughing does not mean their eyes are small


even white people when they smile their eyes becomes chinese1 too





and also please stop pulling stats out of your behind ..... there are no stats that said 30-40% viet have small eyes .... you have not seen all viet therefore stop talking crap

Check out this Hmong girl who lives in northern Vietnam. The eyes are still very northern (Northeast Asian) but the nose, the lips, etc... are very southern:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/18623248@N00/88564014

yea i think it's the overall facial features that differentiates asians from other asians. i'm pure viet and i have single eyelids. i always get mistaken for chinese or japanese.



Anh Dao looks kinda like a japanese girl







the rightmost one

^ make ups

cosmetic make ups can make people look slightly different.

who is she anyway , a net idol ?

The girl(s) in the photos Takumi posted look(s) mixed. Perhaps She's a mixed girl or Japanese/Chinese studying in Vietnam?

If a person is mixed with Northeast Asian, dressing/acting Japanese/Chinese will make that person look Japanese/Chinese. Likewise, if a person is mixed with Khmer, dressing/acting Khmer will make them look Khmer.

Found more pictures of the girl(s):






Cherry Pei:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8214640@N08/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vamplump/sets...57621966743305/

The truth is almost everyone is mixed with something after thousands of years (ancestors intermixing with all kinds of people) but they don't know about it, mostly.

Dude that girl is Full Viet

Her real name is Bui Le Anh Dao
she was one of those actresses in the teen drama Mui Ten Cau Vong


Cherry Pei is just her online nick
Pei = Bui
Cherry = Anh Dao


It's quite fashionable for these little teenagers to get korean, japanese, and chinese nicks nowadays


she only looks mixed in heavily photoshoped pics
in normal pics she looks like Ngo Phuong Lan
at least she gave me the Ngo Phuong Lan impression when I saw her nonphotoshop pics



NPL

Elly, the hot girl every Viet think she's Viet. It turns out she's half Viet, half Chinese.

Elly Trần tên thật là Kim Hồng, sinh tại Mỹ nhưng mang hai dòng máu Việt Nam và Trung Quốc. Người đẹp 22 tuổi có chiều cao 1,68 m và số đo 3 vòng 88-58-90. Cô từ Mỹ trở về Việt Nam làm người mẫu, đại diện game online… đồng thời theo đuổi tiếp việc học.

http://www.vnexpress.net/GL/Van-hoa/2009/11/3BA159EE/

When I first saw her, I didn't think she was full Viet. My feeling was right.

Ngo Phuong Lan's parents don't look closer to northerners than her. Perhaps her maternal/paternal grandma is quite northerner-looking.

it doesnt say she's half-half
it says she's mixed of the two
so that leaves everyone to speculate on the percentage


but ur point?
bc elly is 'mixed', anh dao must be mixed be mixed too?
she's been famous in the teen world for awhile
in our experience if she has recent chinese ancestry the info would be leaked to the public
like in the cases of luong bich huu, luu bao anh, tang thanh ha...


but why the fuk r we dissecting people's blood
all we know is they all look like those freaking teen girls in vn who r heavily influenced by CJK waves

Elly Tran Ha (also known as Elly Kim Hong). She is a half Vietnamese and half Chinese model
http://mykafkaesquelife.blogspot.com/2009/...ese-beauty.html

Northerners != Chinese. The Han Chinese conquered most of the land the Northerners live.

Nation state is a newly concept.

Everyone is mixed with something. Most just don't know about it.

wtf with northern viet = chinese
chinese conquered north vn, but dont u know that southern viets came from northern viet too
wait southerners are more likely to be mixed with chinese than northerners
why arent u saying southern viet = chinese
why arent u saying the whole vn = chinese



whats with this crap about how ppl r supposed to look like?


I have single eyelids and light skin
ppl say I look chinese and must be mixed with chinese
nevertheless I'm 100% Viet

You read it wrong.

!= means not equal to Chinese

i kinda see it funny when people say north viets have more chinese blood than south because north vietnam is closer to china. it's the other way around. cho lon is in south vietnam and it's the place where chinese live in vietnam the most.

everyone is mixed but there should be limitation on this notation or else u can say we're all mixed with africans


on the homogeneity of Viet/Kinh
u take some features from the chinese, some features from the thai, some features from the filipinos
mix them together and u'll get the Viet/Kinh
Viet/Kinh interbreed among themselves and get this 'homogeneity' that thumbsup talked about
but their different features exist in different populations so they're viewed as mixed to some others

The problem is not everyone is equally mixed. Some is more mixed with something, some is less mixed with something. that's why there are Vietnamese that look closer to Khmers and there are Vietnamese that look closer to Northeast Asians.

kick out those with "recent" chinese and khmer ancestry
i was talking about full-blood Viet

I think this little Hmong girl look more Viet than that Elly girl. It's the whole package that counts (the facial bones + nose + lips + ears + eyes etc...). She looks just like my Viet neighbor's daughter.

takumi aint no full viet


he said that he has chinese in him like his grandparents are chinese or something

The full blood Viets are the Khmers and Chams.

Kinhs are immigrants, just like Whites in America.

I agree that Hmongs from SEA look Viet.

But that girl isn't representative of the entire Hmong population though.

Even ricenoodle have single lids. I also remember another member had single lids and was half north half centraler (more likely Full Viet). It should say something. A lot of my family members have single lids too. We trace back our ancestry to central and northern Vietnam not to some Chinese immigrants.

I'm beginning to think you haven't been exposed to enough Viets in real life.



She does look Japanese in some pics, but this picture she looks more Viet. Maybe it is the make-up. I think it might be her forehead, little longer than average Viets.



Don't forget that North Vietnam and China are blocked by mountain passes limiting the amount of Chinese mixing.

Also agree with VietLam that the Hmong girl looks like some little Viet kid.

I think the reason why several Vietnamese would get mistaken as Chinese or Japanese or Korean is because a lot of the average person like Tav6, really can't tell the difference. To them, all asians with this one feature (single eyelids) that they associate with a different race, makes them look like that race to them. While at the same time not paying attention to all the overall features.

Just finished watching episode 19 of Buoc Nhay Xi Tin.
Note* these guys aren't pro actors. First time acting. They're real bboyers and the directors just had them act for this drama.
http://online.film4vn.us/XemPhim.aspx?episodeId=52388
Start from 8:26

Oh yeah, it's a good drama by the way. Very deep. Recommend it even though it's not "exciting". lol

are you seriously that thick in the head???? just because some viet members here have single eyelids it does not mean 30-40 % viet have single eyelids

LMAO and just like you i can name TONS of viet members that have big eyes and LOOK NOTHING LIKE MINH TRI


ie : byron, Dai viet .... etc ....

and how many more times for me to say that MINH TRI LOOKS KOREAN BECAUSE HIS WHOLE DAMN FACE LOOKS LIKE ONE NOT JUST THE EYES for you to get through your thick head that i was not only looking at his eyes ??

and please stop talking when you have sh1t to back up what you said thank you

You contradict yourself.

Of course there are more big eyed Viets than small eyed. umm 30-40% is less than the majority. That means 60-70% of Viets have double lids. LOL
Which makes the majority of Viets having double lids, that doesn't mean that single lids aren't a Viet trait.
I can say the opposite to Koreans, 30-40% have double 60-70% have single, doesn't mean that double lids aren't a Korean trait.
Such ignorance AND arrogance is intolerable. Take a trip to Vietnam please. Stop hating.

If you said he looked more Chinese it'd be a little more believable, but to say he looks KOREAN?? That's just straight up basing it off of his eyes. LOL.

Talking about thick in the head.

LMAO LMAO LMAO

this dude seriously needs to go out of the damn house

first off ... just because the majority of the viet population have big eyes it DOES NOT MEAN 30-40% viet have small eyes .... you pull THOSE NUMBERS OUT OFF YOUR A$$

and how did i contradict my self???

all i am saying it that there are MORE viet with big eyes than small eyes BUT THERE IS NO SPECIFIC numbers from anywhere to say that 30-40% of viet have small eyes

until you have some data from researcher to back your claim then stop freaking putting percentages that has no value at all because you did not do a research on this subject

Hmm first you say he looks straight up Chinese, now you say he looks straight up Korean.

So obviously to you all single eyelidded asians look Chinese or Korean. They can't look Vietnamese or anything else. Obviously you've way too Americanized in view towards asians in general.

I based it off of personal experience which you seem to have none. Why would I make up Bull? LOL I'm not insecure. If I see that my people have a good amount of a certain look I say so. I don't try to brush it off to fit in.

there not many Hoa people in the north. i've never met one. on the other hand the south has a lot of recent mixing with chinese ppl. hence the northern people still tend to look more well less sea-ish.

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

man am i taking to a freaking idiot or what ?????


did i not tell you that PHUONG VY DOES NOT LOOK KOrean or chinese EVEN THOUGH SHE HAS SMALL EYES ??


SEE AND THATS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU ... YOU ONLY BASE WHAT YOU SAID ON YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE BUT U FAILED TO REALIZED THAT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS NOT THE SAME AS EVERYBODY ELSE .


THEREFORE IT IS POINTLESS TO ARGUE WHICH EXPERIENCE IS MORE ACCURATE (MINE OR YOURS) UNTIL YOU CAN FIND SOME REAL DATA FROM REAL RESEARCHERS WHO STUDY THESE KIND OF THINGS

AND ALSO

I ONLY SAID THAT MINH TRI LOOKS CHINESE BECAUSE NORTHERN CHINESE NEAR KOREAN BORDERS HAS SIMILAR LOOKS AS KOREANS SO THEREFORE HE CAN LOOKS EITHER NORTHERN CHINESE OR KOREAN

Please. You obviously want to prove so badly that single lids aren't a Viet trait. I'm just saying it also is. Fine you don't want to play guestimate than Ill just say there is a "good amount" of single lidded Viets.

But obviously you don't want to agree with that because single lids = Chinese or Korean with you. Arrogance. What you want to say is ALL Viets have double lids.. which is false and that is easily proved.

LMAO LMAO LMAO ANOTHER IGNORANT STATEMENT FROM AN IDIOT

IF I WANT TO DENY SMALL EYES AS ONE OF THE VIET PHYSICAL TRAITS THEN WHY THE HELL DID I POST GIRLS LIKE PHUONG VY AND OTHERS GIRLS TOO ???


OBVIOUSLY YOU DONT KNOW SH1T ABOUT ME THEREFORE PLEASE STOP TALKING

i SEE.

I've heard there are several Korean mixed Vietnamese too.

chinese with double eyelids

Jolin Tsai

u can see the fold on her eyelids



Eddy Peng



Andy Chen

slightly? try completely. I know many girls who I don't recognize after they take off their makeup.

Jolin is well known for plastic surgery.
can some post her real teenage photo?



Yes I do agree with you there.

this is totally misleading and unscientific. since when double eyelids have become the exclusive feature for south east asian ??the occurance rate of double lids are quite common on northen chinese too

african like capoid in general have single eyelids and most of eskimos (inuits) have double eye lids

it's such a false stereotype to think all east asian must have single eye lids/epicanthic fold

and that joiln woman is a taiwanese aboriginal

and please you could have posted a better picture of that eddy guy, i bet you purposly posted a pic where he looked more toward vietnamese

since when did defined nose become an exclusive feature for east asian??


take ur own medicine
mr genetics and human face expert

I think that's stupidest topic ever.. who care if u are chinese or not.. even if you have Chinese blood. We Chinese still consider you guys as Vietnamese...


For example, my cousin's boyfriend is half vietnamese and half chinese, but we never consider him as chinese. We always call him ( O Nah Yang-Vietnamese).

my dear this isnt about what u like to consider them
its about this thing between viets and s. chinese that have sparked so much arguing

del

this study is totally outdated from 1998

modern vietnamese are the inhabitants of vietnam (crossed from india to south east asia ) who speak a mon-khmer language like the khmer people and other south east asian

the real yue people of south china are tai-kradai speaking people such as zhuang and others

so geographically and genetically wises , vietnamese almost have nothing to do with china except they got ruled by china for 1100 years and chinese imposed their culture on vietnamese

If you wanna know what certain peoples originally look like, dig up the ancient skeletons (2000 or 3000 years ago). It's very wrong to compare modern peoples with each other since there have been a lot of mixing after thousands of years.

I am Southern Chinese... I always consider myself as Chinese..

http://www.ostas.lu.se/ICSTLL/abstracts/49_Schuessler.pdf

AUSTROASIATIC LANGUAGES IN EARLY CHINA: FRAGMENTS OF THEIR LEXICON AND MORPHOLOGY IN OLD CHINESE

Abstract Austroasiatic (AA) people are known to have lived in early historic China along the SE coast, probably all the way to the Shandong peninsula in the north, and in the Yangtze River basin. Investigators have pointed out AA words which occur in Zhou period literature, including jiang1 ‘river’ (Old Chinese = OC *krong) ‘river’, the name of the Yangtze; jia4-bu4 (*krahpah) ‘cotton’, huang1 ‘blood’, wei2 ‘horsefly’, ren3 ‘year’, hu3 ‘tiger’ and others. This paper suggests that many more words of AA origin have been completely incorporated into the Chinese language, presumably already in pre-historic, pre-literate times, i.e. before 1250 BC. The Shang Dynasty oracle bone inscriptions (OB) and early Zhou period bronze inscriptions (BI) include not only hu3 ‘tiger’, but other AA words such as zhi4 or zhai4 ‘a kind of small deer’, tai2 ‘slave girl’, shuang3 ‘twilight of dawn’, ze4 ‘afternoon’, ji2 (OC *tsit) ‘to approach’, chu2 ‘hey, fodder’, zhou1 ‘boat’, etc. Additional AA words keep showing up in classical literature, again as thoroughly native Chinese words, including jiang1 ‘about to, intend to’, sao1 ‘sad’, ping2 ‘rain master’, ping2 ‘bottle’, song1 ‘high’, ji4 ‘to ford’, qi1 ‘wife’, ji4 ‘prostitute’, chu3 ‘thorny bush’, mei2 ‘branch’, zan1 ‘pin’, etc. Even AA morphemes have been preserved in some OC words which no apparent Chinese or Tibeto-Burman cognates. Nasal infixes often have become initials in Chinese, like the minfix which, in Khmer, derives nouns marking the agent: mu3 ‘male animal’ (steer etc.) < AA: Khmer jmool, mei2 ‘matchmaker’ < AA: Khmer dmEj (E = schwa). The AA n-infix (also -mn-) forms nouns, typically of instruments; in Chinese we find with initial *n, or *n as second element in the initial cluster: xiang1 *snang ‘belt, sash’ < AA: Khmer camnAAng ‘a band, strap, bond’, derived from cAAng ‘to tie’; or rui4 *nots ‘peg, pin, tenon’ < AA: Khmer /tnaaot/ (i.e. etymologically tnot) ‘impaling pole, skewer, spit’ derived from /daaot/ (i.e. dot) ‘impale, run into’, etc. These findings give the impression that in prehistoric times AA speakers have lived in (part of) the Yellow River basin together with ST speakers which have eventually absorbed some of the former’s language (Chinese is clearly a ST language). Furthermore, at least two distinct AA languages must have been present in prehistoric and early historic China: (1) an early form of Proto-Viet-Muong, perhaps even Proto-Vietnamese (in East and SE China); (2) a different AA language which has many superficial similarities with Khmer (in the ancient Xia and Shang heartland and probably to the east of it). Perhaps there was once a third language to account for items which are not found in the previous two, but only in Proto- Monic, Bahnaric et alia; however, since the AA substrate in OC was certainly not identical with Khmer (just as Written Tibetan is certainly not identical with Tibeto-Burman), the data do not necessarily compel us to assume a third AA language.



Original Austro-asiatic speakers were Mongoloid from the Yangtze
The Han chased them to the south where they were mixed with Negritos
Difference degrees of mixing with Negritos produce different loos
eg: Viet are not much mixed with Negritos, Khmer are heavily mixed with Negritos


Given their geographic distribution
The common understanding that Viets descended from one of the Bai Yue is not wrong

Just because Viet might have Chinese blood does not make them Chinese.

It's not about genetics but rather, it is the culture that defines who we are.