There is already effectively an military alliances between SK, Japan and the US, isnt it good enough?

Yeah, personally I don't think a unified kingdom of Japan, Korea, or Mongolia would ever work out. It just makes no sense. It takes a lot more than geography and prehistoric ancestry to unite countries together.

I have no idea why people would ever suggest the unification of the Koreas.... that makes no sense whatsoever. They might share the same ethnicity, but the two are vastly different in mindsets and culture.

No, it isn't good enough.

No, it isn't good enough for the Asia-Pacific NATO. If you want to encircle China and Russia, you need military bases in Mongolia, in the heart of the Eurasian Continent. SK & Japan are good for a Coastal Siege only - China and Russia could very well thrive with the SCO. This is why they are trying hard to convince the Mongolians, Koreans and Japanese Nationalists to use the mythical "Altaic Race" "genetic family" to seal this Alliance against the "Sino" people.

However, Japanese Nationalists will not accept anything less than dominance over the Koreans, so there are inherent conflicts in this "Alliance".

Sound bitter.
S.Korea-Japan-US-Australia alliance doesn't need Mongolia, in fact the only thing that keeping China from invading Mongolia is Russia not Asia pacific-NATO.

Huh? Bitter? Nope, just thinking like a chess player. You can't attach feelings to this, this is what your opponents do, this is how you must make counter-moves.

You should "feel" less and "think" more.

Based on THINKING, why oh why would China want to invade Mongolia? China is very clear about its own survival and longevity strategy, securing its boundaries and access to resources. It built the Great Wall to keep out Mongolians, it negotiated borders with Russia and Mongolia, it innovated to optimize its resources.

The US, however, WANTS to keep its hegemony in Asia, which is why it built MILITARY BASES all over Asia. It sees China and Russia as its key challengers, and it has a policy of NOT tolerating challengers. It openly declares it's back in Asia/Eurasia, bin Laden is conveniently "out of the way", it can now refocus its attention to the Eurasian Continent.

Look at what they DO, which is CONSISTENT, not what they SAY.

Ask Mongolians, it's Mongolian friend told me China is trying to invade Mongolia.
Think more, then Russia isn't so China friendly.

Russia would probably make deal with U.S to put China under very difficult situation, didn't you know Russia is also White nation?
If U.S wanted hegemony in Asia then they would have invaded China, U.S interest is to open up China, and they did brilliant job so far.

LOL. You should just flat out educate yourself AND learn to "think" objectively.

"With the fall of the Qing Dynasty, Mongolia under the Bogd Khaan declared independence in 1911. However, the newly established Republic of China considered Mongolia as part of its own territory. The area controlled by the Bogd Khaan was approximately that of the former Outer Mongolia during Qing period. In 1919, after the October Revolution in Russia, Chinese troops led by Xu Shuzheng occupied Mongolia.
However, as a result of the Russian Civil War, the White Russian adventurer Baron Ungern led his troops into Mongolia in October 1920, defeating the Chinese forces in Niislel Khüree (Ulaanbaatar) in early February 1921. In order to eliminate the threat posed by Ungern, Bolshevik Russia decided to support the establishment of a communist Mongolian government and army. This Mongolian army took the Mongolian part of Kyakhta from Chinese forces on March 18, 1921, and on July 6 Russian and Mongolian troops arrived in Khüree. Mongolia's independence was declared once again on July 11, 1921.[20] These events led to Mongolia's close alignment with the Soviet Union over the next seven decades."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia

Just like Tibet and East-Turkestan, Mongolia was part of China during the Qing and shortly after the fall of the Qing. The only reason Mongolia got its independence from China in the first place is because of Russia. I have no doubt China would historically justify Mongolia's annexation in a heartbeat if Russia would support it. At the end of the day, your tendency to take anything related to China and paint it in an idealistic light is so obvious and completely ruins your credibility. You really need to take some critical thinking classes and educate yourself on the geopolitical reality if you want anyone with an ounce of objectivity to take anything you say seriously.

For someone who is supposedly FACT oriented, you sure love blaming Westerners without a shred of evidence. I'd like to see some proof Americans are using Pan-Altaic nationalism to contain China. I want to see definitive evidence, not conjecture or speculation.

Good point. Qwerty is full of BS. She will say anything to "defend" China, no matter how contrary to the geopolitical reality it is.

Really? qwerty2010 is a girl?
Well, to me she's actually he.

This whole thread was flame bait for Chinese IMO.
Internet world have Pan-Altaic nationalists and Pan-Sinocentric nationalists where both doesn't exists in real world.

It's the internet, people can be whatever race/gender they want to be.

I'm FED UP with dealing with stupid and ignorant posters who don't even know what their own politicians put out as STRATEGIC DIRECTIONS.

MOST educated people in the world know about the contents of the geopolitical statements from HIGHLY-PLACED US officials, eg. NEO-CONS, and their Project for a New American Century, Zbigniew Brzezinski and the Grand Chessboard, etc, etc.

FACTS.


Go to COLLEGE first if you want to argue GEOPOLITICS. Otherwise, it is like explaining Calculus to a guy who knows only his Multiplication Tables.

And Chan-Ho, you knee-jerk Nationalist, I have no intentions to address any of your abusive posts. My words are not directed at you in any way, buzz off my posts, OK???

^ are you upset because we know you're not a girl?
Don't take this Internet chitchat personally.

Sorry, ONE Mongolian guy's FEELINGS does not make it TRUE. Just look at bizarre Korean Nationalists or Uyoku, full of feelings.

Of course NATO has been trying to rope in Russia to join NATO, but Putin is not so stupid to give up his military advantage for membership in an organization that doesn't honor its word. China doesn't like Russia, and vice versa, but it is an important alliance for now for the two neighbors, in the face of a bigger threat. You just don't war with your powerful neighbor, you keep a detente at worse, or make a Peace Pact. Do your own Google, it's all there.

Gaddafy is a WARNING to all the leaders of the world as to what would happen to them and their country, not to mention their wealth parked overseas.

What makes you think that the US wants to invade China? What do they gain from that? 1.2 billion refugees?

What does China gain from invading its neighbors? To have its densely populated cities bombed and its population cut off?

So what does "Opening China" mean?

Empires want CONTROL and to extract WEALTH from their subjects. It is all about Power & Wealth, always, to establish a Global Hegemony to ensure the viability of the Petrodollar. That's the nature of Empires, from the British Empire to the American Empire.

Some of you guys are too simplistic in your thinking - invade this nation and conquer that. You have to ask first and foremost, what does the country GAIN by taking on such actions.

Before you make assumptions, THINK, check your FACTS.

China is of course willing to play along with Empire to break out of their imposed ISOLATION, otherwise, they will be like Cuba and North Korea today. However, they are only willing to PAY up to a certain PRICE. In recent years, with the obscene amount of wealth squandered by the Wall St bankers and the out-of-control spending and DEBT by the Global Hegemon, China is unwilling to continue to throw its savings into more US Debt.

Obviously, from the point of view of CONTROLLING the Eurasian Powers, you need military bases in the middle of Eurasia, as Zbigniew Brzezinski made clear from the start. Mongolia is definitely ideal from which to check China and Russia from the Eurasian Continent, but how do you persuade a sovereign country to give up its sovereignty and invite the US Military in? You play up the THREAT they might face from neighbors and try to bribe their politicians to lean your way.

Just ask the Japanese DP how easy it is to get the Americans to leave their country, as they have promised in their election pledge.

The "China Threat" is always played up, but good luck with dealing with the "China Threat", China is THERE, for thousands of years, and likely for many more years, it's not going away. It is as much of a "threat" today as it has been for thousands of years to its neighbors. Rational people with elementary history knowledge will figure out for themselves if China is the country that tries to colonize other sovereign nations for their resources.

LOL. Pot calling kettle black. I'm pretty consistent in the way I post. Aside from the obvious trolls with whom I don't even respond to, as long as people post logically, objectively, and refrain from spreading misinformation, I don't typically criticize them. As for my own perspective, I don't normally post unless I'm responding to someone who deserves to be criticized or I'm in the position to make a well educated comment. I always make sure that I'm making balanced, logical and well-supported arguments when I do decide to comment. That's why you will always fail if you decide to argue against me.

You, on the other hand, like the spout BS from such a biased perspective that you leave me absolutely no choice but to call you out on it. Admit it, you're here to "defend China" rather than make objective posts that seek to reach a more truthful understanding of the issues at hand.

Well, then instead of calling names like BS this and that, try to REFUTE my points by refering to the sources I quoted!

Otherwise, TROLLING.

I'm not going to refute posts that are logically fallacious. Instead, I will explain why they are and hope that you will be reasonable to enough to make better posts moving forward.

Point out how it is FALLACIOUS LOGICALLY.

Put out or Shut Up.

Haha...maybe I'm a girl, maybe I'm a guy,...

Just take my posts as they are!

Seriously, I'm NOT here to find a date, NOT looking, I'm so ugly anyway, , so really, my gender doesn't matter.

To me, geopolitics matter, they directly impact our lives. It's an intellectually interesting and challenging exercise, not unlike chess. Since there are so many threads about Asian geopolitics, I just add my two cents.

I am, however, extremely irritated by stupidity, so yeah, I can be insufferably snobbish.

Japan and Korea getting along better will help stabilize the east asian region. Its not meant to 'compete' with China. Arrogance and self defensive behavior breeds animosity, lets not be petty anymore because each has a lot to offer. East Asia needs a balance of power. France, Italy,Germany, Britain, Spain etc dont get all bent out of shape every time their neighbor does well. China is doing well and Asians should favor having other strong Asian partners rather than dealing with unequal trades shoved down our throats by western forces.
Mongolia is already headed to be a part of China, better to focus on joining forces with China to take Siberia from Russia.

Wow, such long post.
Didn't know you're so obsessed with this kind of issue.

China is opened up for business and have changed a lot since last 2 decades, it's success of capitalism.
That's all I care.

Like I've commented, don't get too personal.
This is just Internet chitchat.





That's right gender, race it doesn't matter.
I know you're one of these Pan-Sinocentric nationalist, you're no different from these Pan-Altaic nationalists.
You really must stop generalizing and stereotyping people based on their Internet comments.

There's better Internet discussion board for intelligent people, join that forum and don't waste time here.

Erm, NO ONE wants to mess with the Russians, not Mongolians or Chinese, or even Americans! Your post reminds me of one "Sino Nationalist" who always argued that China should seize territory from Russia... hmmm..

Logically, members of any region will work together to minimize conflict and increase economic alliances, member states do not mess around their own backyard. However, there is ONE player here that does not reside in the region, but does exercise complete military and political control over several nations. The consequences are therefore acutely felt. The game is obviously played between the genuinely independent sovereign states and the MasterMind, drawing lines in the sand to prevent conflicts from arising in the region and destabilizing the apple cart.



Sorry I even bother to answer your posts!

I have no time for the stupidity from the likes of you and Chan-Ho, who simply say "This is BS!" or "So and So is @££&*@£!" Who wouldn't be IRRITATED?? What is the point of writing perspectives, when all it suffices is name-calling??

What the hell, I argue from the point of view of Chinese INTEREST, that is some "Pan-Sinocentric Nationalism", whatever??

Even Chinese are more open-minded than to subscribe to some outdated "Race Ideology".

You mean, Koreans here on AF do not argue from SOUTH KOREAN INTEREST, or don't argue from SK POV?

If you're not interested in Chinese Point of View, then don't address my posts. I am FED UP of being called names, insulted, etc., WITHOUT the REWARD of INTELLIGENT DISCOURSE or further interesting KNOWLEDGE gained.

I'm really not interested in your Koreans picking a FIGHT, either put up a valid rebuttal or just buzz off.

So WHAT did I post that is "Nutcase" or "BS"?? Or is it that when you can't post a reply, childish name-calling will do?

So why do I want to waste my time talking to Kindergarten minds?

S.Korean interest isn't about dominating others, but your Pan-Sinocentric nationalistic view can blur your judging.
Please do not speak as you're representing China/Beijing.
Like you've mentioned, everyone's interest and opinions are different and you should respect that but you don't respect other's views because you see them as BIG THREAT to your Pan-Sinocentric nationalism?
I notice, you're very personally involved in insulting Koreans, Japanese even Mongolian.
Please stop that, otherwise you don't have much future in global community where everyone is equally respected.

Excuse me, you have posted NO VIEWS, NO FACTS, only INSULTS. Now BUZZ OFF.

My original post wasn't even directed at you Koreans or Americans, but at a Chinese who asked, "isn't it enough to have a SK-JAPAN-US Alliance?", and I answered WHY Mongolia would ADD to the Alliance from a Geopolitical POV. Most Chinese are familiar with the Neo-Cons, PNAC and Brezinski. Now, either offer an intelligent rebuttal or stop your HARASSMENT.

Please stop this nonsense.
Your Pan-nationalistic views are such views of minority, you're giving bad impression to other good Chinese.
You're taking way seriously suggesting you have behavior/insecurity issue.
Your very biased comment suggesting you're male because it's too aggressive.

In other words, you derive your tenuous accusations from PNAC & Brzezinski's geopolitical statements/views, which were non-specific to Pan-Altaic movement.



Good luck with getting Mongolians to join you. They don't hold your empire in a favorable light at all:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/02/...mp;type=article


I bet Qwerty will blame CIA for Mongolian's views of China as "imperialistic" and "evil".

Oh, I'm not chinese. I only meant that I think Mongolia, regardless if they are against it ..has limited choices because they need the money to develop and China is already in that region (inner Mongolia). Whereas Siberia is still largely up in the air (somewhat). I have a topic thread posted about China/Russia/Siberia-Central Asia/U.S. geopolitics in Chinese Serious Chat.

I'd like to state for the record that Altaic studies and its ties between Korean and Japanese people have nothing to do with being "against" Chinese people. I'm not sure why anyone be so defensive, especially China considering their wealth of culture ( but again, this one individual does not reflect all the Chinese people of course and seems to be attempting to create drama?). There's no need to be so reactionary about altaic studies. Despite your opinion of the "mythical Altaic race"? ( 'race' is not used in academic circles to describe the links in language and origin) those that study, publish and lecture on Altaic linguistics at Columbia, Harvard and so forth might suggest otherwise.

In regards to an earlier comment: No it isnt good enough because some prefer to ally with other asians rather than the U.S. Chinese are rightfully feeling confident in their economic rise but it doesnt take a far look into history (Opium anyone?) to see what happens when France, U.S, Russia, Britain rally up forces. Regardless how relations may seem, western powers (and yes, even Chinas SCO partner Russia) are just itching for China to fail. Its not difficult to see the benefits of better relations in the east asian region.

First of all, if you are unfamiliar with all the historic and political literature out there about Empire divide-and-conquer strategies pitting different ethnicities against each other, I feel sorry for your level of knowledge and I'm afraid we cannot have a remotely intelligent discourse if you are under-educated in this area.

Example from simple Googling of these key words:

http://www.fpif.org/articles/divide_and_co..._imperial_rules

And I'm also not going to address your strawmen about getting Mongolia to join "our empire" (what a joke...)..., maybe you Americans should not be such hypocrites in pointing fingers as you REGULARLY coerce with carrots and sticks to make other nations join YOUR EMPIRE. Even those who joined but didn't do enough are targeted for political assassination, eg. Gaddafi. Whether NATO raising a ruckus about "No Fly Zone" and then proceed itself to BOMB Libya and killing Libyans for a month now is hypocritical, moral or legal, that is another question.

China respects sovereign national boundaries, China doesn't try to assassinate leaders, sponsor secessionists and rebels to subvert governments, etc. China doesn't use "humanitarianism" as a pretext to topple regimes. Are these acts "imperial" or "evil"? I guess NOT to Americans, Koreans, etc.

Americans, Mongolians, Koreans and Japanese are of course free to do whatever they want to do. China and Russia will also VIEW their actions from their own perspectives, as NORMAL nations do, or is it a CRIME to even THINK differently from the US perspective???

We're guilty of Thought Crimes, now, huh? What a bastion of Freedom indeed.

Ok, there's something contradictory with the poster who started this thread and the image uploaded. A simple Google of "North East Asia Region Government" shows that this association is an economic platform that comprises China, Russia, Mongolia, Korea and Japan for regional economic cooperation and development.

It ISN'T a Unified "Korea+Japan+Mongolia" Kingdom as proposed in the title, no matter how it must be some AF posters' wishful thinking and geopolitical pipe dream, and it isn't about including some NEA countries while excluding others, as ALL regional countries participate.

http://www.neargov.org/app/index.jsp?lang=en

http://www.npec.or.jp/northeast_asia/en/in...tion/index.html

So the thread is a bit of a joke.

Good luck with turning Mongolia against its neighbors China and Russia!

^ Haha, you again talk as if you're representing China & Russia and rest of the world.

England and Israel's historical use of divide and rule tactics do not implicate America in Pan-Altaic nationalism. These are different governments in question. You shouldn't generalize across the board and offer that as evidence of American complicity. This doesn't count as conclusive proof. Also, Brzezingski's idea of maintaining American primacy centers on the Central Asian Stans, and associated regional powers, China and Russia. This has no relevance to American involvement in Altaicism with respect to Japan, Korea, Mongolia. You've skirted around my request for conclusive proof, because you have none. Moreover, it's likely you've concocted the tenuous connection between America and Altaicism, because you would rather scapegoat Westerners than face up to your country as the cause of Asia's antipathy toward China.

oh, yeah thanks for the clear up... cuz this thread made no sense lol

A formal anti-China alliance composing of Mongolia-Korea-Japan?

It's sad that you need to combine those countries just to compete with China.

Mongolians don't even consider themselves as "Asians". They keep claiming to be Turkic or whatever.

China has always been surrounded by numerous enemies. Each time, China has defeated these enemies. The future won't be any different.

Dude... a medium size city in China outnumbers Mongolians...

Why is there even a forum post about them.

well china and russia can pwn the rest of the world that's why.



true. mongols are part of the central asian/CIS sphere rather. i don't think they bear any connection with east asia or SEA, maybe northern china but that's pretty much it.

I said in another thread that it's high time for China's allies to step to the plate- Pakistan, Iran, North Korea, and maybe Russia (though i doubt it unless Medvedev stops being a pussy and starts forming solid ties with China instead of being ambigious). It's time to look West and not East for allies.

Mongolians identify themselves as Altaic people along with Mongoloid Turkic people, Tungusic people, and Siberian natives. A lot of these Altaic nationalists don't even accept Koreans and Japanese people. They also reject the wannabes from Turkey and Hungary.



The two main cultural groups of the Mongoloid race:
1. Sedentary East Asian
2. Altaic Nomadic

Southeast Asia = transition region from Mongoloid to Australoid
Central Asia = transition region from Mongoloid to Caucasoid

Recently found out that...

levels of Y-DNA halpo K and corresponding autosomal markers (Found highest in Micronesia but originating in India) is the 'Australoid' in SE Asians.

Y-DNA by language group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_O_...ilies_and_genes
(Of course this can be very different from population to population. For example the Philippines has levels of K and O1-3

Australian Natives have primarily C with lower levels of K and F (and corresponding markers).

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