Full Version: Is vietnam hospital dangerous
I heard that most heavy illness patient went to the hospital in vietnam , most of the time in result, patient will die, Are the doctors in vietnam doing the actual pratice to the patient to get experience. unless patient family are rich and give doctor lots of money. is this ture.
No , they will do the best they can
QUOTE(zanggg @ Mar 28 2009, 12:22 AM) [snapback]4179656[/snapback]
No , they will do the best they can
I had a surgery back when I was 10. I'm not dead now, am I?
It is unknown in general. However, Vietnamese from what I have observed (since I am around them most of the time) base theirs action on numbers, unrelated events of other (they can't seem to tell what is related to them and what is not!!), and voting device that are purely not for them and not who they are [unless they want to be un-human],... It is quite sad that both times I was there, the hospital conditions I visited base theirs time and effort mostly on money and "something-they-have-to-do, like a job." Base on this I would say that Vietnam do not have a tradition in such field (that is, no one start its tradition as of yet.) As a result of mother nature, Vietnamese population had grown steadily with its food supply in-thus-far. This result in overcrowding and perhaps some undesirable series of rigid structures. The action that is realistic as of now is what call home-hospital since Vietnamese are extent-family organized, a hidden gift of what they should be that American family lack but made up with other social-structures. You can only be the best that you can be by being yourself but learned what is good from other. Vietnamese are meant to function as such an "unit," and when no such "unit" exist most Vietnamese teenager make up for it in gangs. Personally, if I just live for myself I don't really see the point.
Home hospital differ greatly as it quality is dependence on the well-beings of the whole family as well as how much they care for their love one. It is also connected to the public sector via a "out-going" person of the family. The home is connected to the neighborhood, where do one grown up, what is one familiar with, where does one most deepest memory resided, who does one respect and what is one customs. This is what I "feel" is Vietnamese. It would be of some value if the government come up with a general guideline for the public. However, such operation is likely dependent on how well connect the family is to the right source of information (like cao gio, danh cam,... luc cam, nuoc hap va la luc kho tho, uong nuoc gao luc yeu minh, cach nam ngu, cach tap the duc khi yeu khi, cach an, cach uong de ma phong ho, cach trong cay va hoa, van van.) It does not take a genius to realize that one live in a self healing forest that is constantly under attack from parasite, just fix it correctly, then you be heal both physically and psychologically (so that you can start thinking and begin to love your country.) It is not magic. Your country already geographically look like a true flower, or a kite that is fly high above. You're not a whale nor a lion size of a whale, or the hidden islands, or the Yin and Yang of Korea,... Can a fish beat a dog at running, or a dog beat a goose at flying? Yes it can but it will take something that is weird and kind'a out of this world. But it is not what it is suppose to be and it is not of yours strength but the strength of other (just learn from them.) Is this good? I don't know.
Home hospital differ greatly as it quality is dependence on the well-beings of the whole family as well as how much they care for their love one. It is also connected to the public sector via a "out-going" person of the family. The home is connected to the neighborhood, where do one grown up, what is one familiar with, where does one most deepest memory resided, who does one respect and what is one customs. This is what I "feel" is Vietnamese. It would be of some value if the government come up with a general guideline for the public. However, such operation is likely dependent on how well connect the family is to the right source of information (like cao gio, danh cam,... luc cam, nuoc hap va la luc kho tho, uong nuoc gao luc yeu minh, cach nam ngu, cach tap the duc khi yeu khi, cach an, cach uong de ma phong ho, cach trong cay va hoa, van van.) It does not take a genius to realize that one live in a self healing forest that is constantly under attack from parasite, just fix it correctly, then you be heal both physically and psychologically (so that you can start thinking and begin to love your country.) It is not magic. Your country already geographically look like a true flower, or a kite that is fly high above. You're not a whale nor a lion size of a whale, or the hidden islands, or the Yin and Yang of Korea,... Can a fish beat a dog at running, or a dog beat a goose at flying? Yes it can but it will take something that is weird and kind'a out of this world. But it is not what it is suppose to be and it is not of yours strength but the strength of other (just learn from them.) Is this good? I don't know.
QUOTE(loyol @ Mar 27 2009, 09:47 PM) [snapback]4179486[/snapback]
I heard that most heavy illness patient went to the hospital in vietnam , most of the time in result, patient will die, Are the doctors in vietnam doing the actual pratice to the patient to get experience. unless patient family are rich and give doctor lots of money. is this ture.
I dont know.
Please allow me to get a knife and slash you 4-5 times.
After that, I will take you to the hospital and leave you at the gate.
See what will happen. Deal?
s
QUOTE(zanggg @ Mar 27 2009, 11:22 PM) [snapback]4179656[/snapback]
No , they will do the best they can
if you bribe them enough
Yeah, hospitals (may not be all) are corrupt. From my family experience, my grandma had a stroke last year and had to be in hospital for a few weeks in Saigon, my dad had to go back to Vietnam with money to make sure she had the proper treatment.
QUOTE(bonnie @ Mar 28 2009, 05:13 AM) [snapback]4179914[/snapback]
Yeah, hospitals (may not be all) are corrupt. From my family experience, my grandma had a stroke last year and had to be in hospital for a few weeks in Saigon, my dad had to go back to Vietnam with money to make sure she had the proper treatment.
?? how does that...
nvm.
well, for a clean room, continuous care and assistance including room maintenance, you got to give the nurses a few hundred thousand dong.
QUOTE(bonnie @ Mar 28 2009, 06:07 AM) [snapback]4179980[/snapback]
well, for a clean room, continuous care and assistance including room maintenance, you got to give the nurses a few hundred thousand dong.
it's not bribery, it's common courtesy
We named hospitals: "nhà thương", house of love. Now it is a place where bribery is out of necessity. Everything needs so much money and the govt does not invest enough, barely any. So it is connection and then money talks.
What does this say about our culture that was calling it : "nhà thương", house of love.
What does this say about our culture that was calling it : "nhà thương", house of love.
no they get paid to do it but they don't unless you personally give them money, that ain't common courtesy to me. that money doesn't go through the hospital, it's pure personal bribery. you ain't got money, you ain't got care.
thuong isn't necessarily love. it can be thuong tich which is injuries.
thuong isn't necessarily love. it can be thuong tich which is injuries.
^ If I thuong bonnie. Does it mean love?
Money can't buy me love... can't buy me love...
or health.
or health.
QUOTE(bonnie @ Mar 28 2009, 09:42 PM) [snapback]4180705[/snapback]
no they get paid to do it but they don't unless you personally give them money, that ain't common courtesy to me. that money doesn't go through the hospital, it's pure personal bribery. you ain't got money, you ain't got care.
thuong isn't necessarily love. it can be thuong tich which is injuries.
thuong isn't necessarily love. it can be thuong tich which is injuries.
miss bonnie,
I was being sarcastic. The culture of corruption has infiltrated into the Vietnamese blood. It is almost like an "unwritten law".
That's what meant.
Dangerous as American nursing home. These days is all about money and self interest. Whatever happened to the commune spirit? and little sacrifices for the greater good of the whole group. I blame the leaders for failing to set an example and do what they preach.
What do you mean corruption? There is nothing corrupt about giving doctors and nurses a little extra on the side as an act of appreciation for the things they do. Thanks to our omnipotent government and the brilliant leadership of our Party , this spirit of generosity and compassion has trickled down to every level of society. Only reactionaries and traitors call this thoughtful act "corruption".
QUOTE(Legion @ Mar 28 2009, 10:39 PM) [snapback]4180754[/snapback]
Dangerous as American nursing home. These days is all about money and self interest. Whatever happened to the commune spirit? and little sacrifices for the greater good of the whole group. I blame the leaders for failing to set an example and do what they preach.
ask Uncle's Ho
Stop blaiming uncle Ho.
Uncle Ho did what he preached. He had no fancy house, clothes, etc...The man had much seductive power and he understood the art of warfare. The great Ho Chi Minh is long gone. He left power to the irresponsible hands and the future has shaped far from what he envisioned. The game of power is easier in Vietnam since it is in concentrated form and only held by the few and pass down to their family members. Which made them uninspiring , lazy, and irresponsible. Power falling into the hands of the unfit. Unlike in Democratic society where it is scattered and harder to attain. To attain and maintain power in a Democratic society one must use indirect, seduction, wit, etc... and never violence or force.
Blame the bad system and bad leaders.
Uncle Ho did what he preached. He had no fancy house, clothes, etc...The man had much seductive power and he understood the art of warfare. The great Ho Chi Minh is long gone. He left power to the irresponsible hands and the future has shaped far from what he envisioned. The game of power is easier in Vietnam since it is in concentrated form and only held by the few and pass down to their family members. Which made them uninspiring , lazy, and irresponsible. Power falling into the hands of the unfit. Unlike in Democratic society where it is scattered and harder to attain. To attain and maintain power in a Democratic society one must use indirect, seduction, wit, etc... and never violence or force.
Blame the bad system and bad leaders.
all hospital are dangerous
have u not heard stories about hospital in the U.S.??
people catch some type of virus in hospital all the time and doctors in the U.S. made lot of horrible errors that results in people death too
have u not heard stories about hospital in the U.S.??
people catch some type of virus in hospital all the time and doctors in the U.S. made lot of horrible errors that results in people death too
QUOTE(Legion @ Mar 28 2009, 11:21 PM) [snapback]4180780[/snapback]
Stop blaiming uncle Ho.
Uncle Ho did what he preached. He had no fancy house, clothes, etc...The man had much seductive power and he understood the art of warfare. The great Ho Chi Minh is long gone. He left power to the irresponsible hands and the future has shaped far from what he envisioned. The game of power is easier in Vietnam since it is in concentrated form and only held by the few and pass down to their family members. Which made them uninspiring , lazy, and irresponsible. Power falling into the hands of the unfit. Unlike in Democratic society where it is scattered and harder to attain. To attain and maintain power in a Democratic society one must use indirect, seduction, wit, etc... and never violence or force.
Blame the bad system and bad leaders.
Uncle Ho did what he preached. He had no fancy house, clothes, etc...The man had much seductive power and he understood the art of warfare. The great Ho Chi Minh is long gone. He left power to the irresponsible hands and the future has shaped far from what he envisioned. The game of power is easier in Vietnam since it is in concentrated form and only held by the few and pass down to their family members. Which made them uninspiring , lazy, and irresponsible. Power falling into the hands of the unfit. Unlike in Democratic society where it is scattered and harder to attain. To attain and maintain power in a Democratic society one must use indirect, seduction, wit, etc... and never violence or force.
Blame the bad system and bad leaders.
Uncle Ho must be $hitting himself atm
QUOTE(bonnie @ Mar 28 2009, 10:42 PM) [snapback]4180705[/snapback]
no they get paid to do it but they don't unless you personally give them money, that ain't common courtesy to me. that money doesn't go through the hospital, it's pure personal bribery. you ain't got money, you ain't got care.
thuong isn't necessarily love. it can be thuong tich which is injuries.
thuong isn't necessarily love. it can be thuong tich which is injuries.
Wait, do you mean that your dad had to bring money and pay the single person upfront? Bribe them or what? Or are you just guessing that your dad brought money over to Vietnam means he had to bribe the hospital? I'm pretty sure there are corrupt people in hospitals but your dad's situation doesn't sound like a bribery by the way you're explaining it.
I mean from your story he could be just going over to check up on your grandma and pay the hospital fees. Hospitals are quite expensive over there.
It's kinda like how everything in the U.S. is controlled by businesses and corporations. There was this girl that died because the hospital she was brought to wasn't part of her insurance. The hospital refused to operate on her and when she was on her way to her insurance's hospital she died.
Everyone's getting greedy nowadays.
i am not trying to defend for vietnamese hospitals but please understand that vietnamese doctors earn much less than a normal engineer, unless they work for foreign hospitals located in vietnam. And that is understandable for them to try to get some money. Because after all, they also have a family to take care of, and when your own kids dont have enough to eat, you dont care about the others anymore.
a few more decades later, when the economy is better, corruption will decrease.
a few more decades later, when the economy is better, corruption will decrease.
QUOTE(coldsunlight @ Mar 29 2009, 02:06 PM) [snapback]4181289[/snapback]
i am not trying to defend for vietnamese hospitals but please understand that vietnamese doctors earn much less than a normal engineer, unless they work for foreign hospitals located in vietnam. And that is understandable for them to try to get some money. Because after all, they also have a family to take care of, and when your own kids dont have enough to eat, you dont care about the others anymore.
a few more decades later, when the economy is better, corruption will decrease.
a few more decades later, when the economy is better, corruption will decrease.
This is what I am saying. The govt being corrupt is creating an environment where bribery is out of necessity. They are corrupt and weak, so they want to make everything corrupt and chaos.
Yeah my dad brought the money to pay for fees, that's understandable paying for fees to the hospital, but he and my aunty had to personally give each staff who they asked for any service a few hundred thousand grand on the side. This is just one incident.
Collectivism used to be prevalent in Asian societies but has been overruled by individualism of Western society, so each for their own.
Collectivism used to be prevalent in Asian societies but has been overruled by individualism of Western society, so each for their own.
QUOTE(howstrange @ Mar 29 2009, 02:17 PM) [snapback]4181303[/snapback]
This is what I am saying. The govt being corrupt is creating an environment where bribery is out of necessity. They are corrupt and weak, so they want to make everything corrupt and chaos.
first- i dont know if you have ever lived (when and how long) in vietnam, but the nation has only been developed recently. Before the lifting of the embargo, the whole country is uniformly poor, regardless your social status.
Right now, vietnam is a developing country. And corruption is inevitable in a weak economy. It is not that the government tries to create such an environment but the results entailing from wars and the course of vietnamese history itself.
Please use some logic to argue.
@bonnie: the fee your family had to pay for the hospital (or any other patient's) is simply not enough for anything. The fee normally goes to the hospital itself, thus, doctors and nurses take the extra money to make their living. I dont try to justify for them, but poor condition leads to such kind of things. I remember reading "All quiet on the Western front" - a novel about world war I when in Europe, the same corruption and bribery occurred.
cold,
talk logic with these kids will just waste your time. Better to save your spit and riddle/love them.
talk logic with these kids will just waste your time. Better to save your spit and riddle/love them.
Excuses about communism corruption and stupidty? Everyone knows the govt can do lots better. At least get a law and order into place. There is no law in VN. It is a jungle.
^ Tomorrow will be your ideal VN.
Cuban resources is really limited but their hospital/health care and education is top notch. Not much corruption here.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Healthcare_of_Cuba
QUOTE
Praise for the Cuban Healthcare System
In 2006, BBC flagship news programme Newsnight featured Cuba's Healthcare system as part of a series identifying "the world's best public services". The report noted that "Thanks chiefly to the American economic blockade, but partly also to the web of strange rules and regulations that constrict Cuban life, the economy is in a terrible mess: national income per head is minuscule, and resources are amazingly tight. Healthcare, however, is a top national priority" The report stated that life expectancy and infant mortality rates are pretty much the same as the USA's. Its doctor-to-patient ratios stand comparison to any country in Western Europe. Its annual total health spend per head, however, comes in at $251; just over a tenth of the UK's. The report concluded that the population's admirable health is one of the key reasons why Castro is still in power. In fact, a recent poll carried out by the Gallup Organization's Costa Rican affiliate — Consultoría Interdisciplinaria en Desarrollo (CID) — found that about three-quarters of Cuban citizens are positive about their country's education and healthcare systems.
In 2000, Secretary General of the United Nations Kofi Annan stated that "Cuba should be the envy of many other nations" adding that achievements in social development are impressive given the size of its gross domestic product per capita. "Cuba demonstrates how much nations can do with the resources they have if they focus on the right priorities - health, education, and literacy." The Kaiser Family Foundation, a non-governmental organization that evaluated Cuba’s healthcare system in 2000-1 described Cuba as "a shining example of the power of public health to transform the health of an entire country by a commitment to prevention and by careful management of its medical resources" President of the World Bank James Wolfensohn also praised Cuba's healthcare system in 2001, saying that "Cuba has done a great job on education and health", at the annual meeting of the Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Wayne Smith, former head of the US Interests Section in Havana identified "the incredible dedication" of Cubans to healthcare, adding that "Doctors in Cuba can make more driving cabs and working in hotels, but they don't. They're just very dedicated". Dr. Robert N. Butler, president of the International Longevity Center in New York and a Pulitzer Prize-winning author on aging, has traveled to Cuba to see firsthand how doctors are trained. He said a principal reason that some health standards in Cuba approach the high American level is that the Cuban system emphasizes early intervention. Clinic visits are free, and the focus is on preventing disease rather than treating it. Furthermore, London's The Guardian newspaper lauded Cuba's public healthcare system for what it viewed as its high quality in a Sept. 12, 2007 article.
In 2006, BBC flagship news programme Newsnight featured Cuba's Healthcare system as part of a series identifying "the world's best public services". The report noted that "Thanks chiefly to the American economic blockade, but partly also to the web of strange rules and regulations that constrict Cuban life, the economy is in a terrible mess: national income per head is minuscule, and resources are amazingly tight. Healthcare, however, is a top national priority" The report stated that life expectancy and infant mortality rates are pretty much the same as the USA's. Its doctor-to-patient ratios stand comparison to any country in Western Europe. Its annual total health spend per head, however, comes in at $251; just over a tenth of the UK's. The report concluded that the population's admirable health is one of the key reasons why Castro is still in power. In fact, a recent poll carried out by the Gallup Organization's Costa Rican affiliate — Consultoría Interdisciplinaria en Desarrollo (CID) — found that about three-quarters of Cuban citizens are positive about their country's education and healthcare systems.
In 2000, Secretary General of the United Nations Kofi Annan stated that "Cuba should be the envy of many other nations" adding that achievements in social development are impressive given the size of its gross domestic product per capita. "Cuba demonstrates how much nations can do with the resources they have if they focus on the right priorities - health, education, and literacy." The Kaiser Family Foundation, a non-governmental organization that evaluated Cuba’s healthcare system in 2000-1 described Cuba as "a shining example of the power of public health to transform the health of an entire country by a commitment to prevention and by careful management of its medical resources" President of the World Bank James Wolfensohn also praised Cuba's healthcare system in 2001, saying that "Cuba has done a great job on education and health", at the annual meeting of the Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Wayne Smith, former head of the US Interests Section in Havana identified "the incredible dedication" of Cubans to healthcare, adding that "Doctors in Cuba can make more driving cabs and working in hotels, but they don't. They're just very dedicated". Dr. Robert N. Butler, president of the International Longevity Center in New York and a Pulitzer Prize-winning author on aging, has traveled to Cuba to see firsthand how doctors are trained. He said a principal reason that some health standards in Cuba approach the high American level is that the Cuban system emphasizes early intervention. Clinic visits are free, and the focus is on preventing disease rather than treating it. Furthermore, London's The Guardian newspaper lauded Cuba's public healthcare system for what it viewed as its high quality in a Sept. 12, 2007 article.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Healthcare_of_Cuba
Cuba = my father's dik in Vietnamese 
A lot of non-Viet words sound so dirty and hilarious from Viets' ears
A lot of non-Viet words sound so dirty and hilarious from Viets' ears
Talking about d!ck, I am endowed. My d!ck is huge, that's the only thing I am proud of. Not trying to gloat or anything but your comment reminded me the source of my self esteem. The height of my joy and blessing.
QUOTE(Legion @ Mar 29 2009, 10:18 PM) [snapback]4181828[/snapback]
Cuban resources is really limited but their hospital/health care and education is top notch. Not much corruption here.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Healthcare_of_Cuba
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Healthcare_of_Cuba
How we've lost our culture.
Don't worry , man. Socal will save us all. The handsome, intelligence, and just. Where has he been lately?
What excuses will they have now?
@legion:
the difference between china + vietnam and cuba is that China and Vietnam are not communist anymore. They are only communist in name, while Cuba still runs a communist system (which is why it is the only place where the embargo has not been lifted). China even calls itself market communist
. Nowadays, Vietnam has stocks and private ownership for almost everything 
======
again, howstrange, I wont argue around with you but vietnamese society is that of the nineteenth, early 20th century europe, where the economy just barely boomed thus emerged social and economical gap. Even Stalin's government still partially tried to make its people happy (just in different methodology). And remember that those doctors and nurses are employed by the government. The fact that they dont earn enough means that the gov is weak, not that the gov tries to create chaos.
this should be the last time I reply to you on this topic.
the difference between china + vietnam and cuba is that China and Vietnam are not communist anymore. They are only communist in name, while Cuba still runs a communist system (which is why it is the only place where the embargo has not been lifted). China even calls itself market communist
. Nowadays, Vietnam has stocks and private ownership for almost everything ======
again, howstrange, I wont argue around with you but vietnamese society is that of the nineteenth, early 20th century europe, where the economy just barely boomed thus emerged social and economical gap. Even Stalin's government still partially tried to make its people happy (just in different methodology). And remember that those doctors and nurses are employed by the government. The fact that they dont earn enough means that the gov is weak, not that the gov tries to create chaos.
this should be the last time I reply to you on this topic.
QUOTE(coldsunlight @ Mar 29 2009, 11:40 PM) [snapback]4181906[/snapback]
@legion:
the difference between china + vietnam and cuba is that China and Vietnam are not communist anymore. They are only communist in name, while Cuba still runs a communist system (which is why it is the only place where the embargo has not been lifted). China even calls itself market communist . Nowadays, Vietnam has stocks and private ownership for almost everything
======
again, howstrange, I wont argue around with you but vietnamese society is that of the nineteenth, early 20th century europe, where the economy just barely boomed thus emerged social and economical gap. Even Stalin's government still partially tried to make its people happy (just in different methodology). And remember that those doctors and nurses are employed by the government. The fact that they dont earn enough means that the gov is weak, not that the gov tries to create chaos.
this should be the last time I reply to you on this topic.
the difference between china + vietnam and cuba is that China and Vietnam are not communist anymore. They are only communist in name, while Cuba still runs a communist system (which is why it is the only place where the embargo has not been lifted). China even calls itself market communist
. Nowadays, Vietnam has stocks and private ownership for almost everything ======
again, howstrange, I wont argue around with you but vietnamese society is that of the nineteenth, early 20th century europe, where the economy just barely boomed thus emerged social and economical gap. Even Stalin's government still partially tried to make its people happy (just in different methodology). And remember that those doctors and nurses are employed by the government. The fact that they dont earn enough means that the gov is weak, not that the gov tries to create chaos.
this should be the last time I reply to you on this topic.
So instead of making things better they make it worse, changed names or whatever, it is worse or better? If the govt can't enforce law or create meaningful law, it is weak and only wants chaos. The very thing the govt does it to make and enforce law. If it even can't do that, it knows it has no place. And how can it justify itself?
communism is supposed to be about happiness, justice and equality
what happended there ?
what happended there ?
QUOTE(beefnoodle @ Mar 30 2009, 12:18 AM) [snapback]4181942[/snapback]
communism is supposed to be about happiness, justice and equality
what happended there ?
what happended there ?
This is how the sell it to you like a failed religion. They can't even create and enforce law. What good are they? This is all what a society is based on. How we've lost our culture.
Cuba's economy = command and control or government control everything = health care is controlled by central government. Total control = more efficiency.
Vietnam's economy = mixed economy (command and control + free market) = health care is mixed--controlled by the the central government and private business.
I am guessing the corruption take place in government service since doctor are not well paid etc.. These corruption are minor and harmless on a big scale, though.
The overall quality of health in Vietnam is regarded as good, as reflected by 2005 estimates of life expectancy (70.61 years) and infant mortality (25.95 per 1,000 live births).
http://www.wpro.who.int/countries/2008/vtn..._priorities.htm
as CSL says, give it time for this new complicated system to adjust. These corruption is just a small bump to a better health care system in the long run.
Vietnam's economy = mixed economy (command and control + free market) = health care is mixed--controlled by the the central government and private business.
I am guessing the corruption take place in government service since doctor are not well paid etc.. These corruption are minor and harmless on a big scale, though.
The overall quality of health in Vietnam is regarded as good, as reflected by 2005 estimates of life expectancy (70.61 years) and infant mortality (25.95 per 1,000 live births).
http://www.wpro.who.int/countries/2008/vtn..._priorities.htm
as CSL says, give it time for this new complicated system to adjust. These corruption is just a small bump to a better health care system in the long run.
QUOTE(howstrange @ Mar 30 2009, 12:19 AM) [snapback]4181943[/snapback]
This is how the sell it to you like a failed religion. They can't even create and enforce law. What good are they? This is all what a society is based on. How we've lost our culture.
ask Uncle Ho
HO ho was part of a failed religion. Some still look upon him as God and the stupid -ism as devine. But we all know it is stupid now, and laughable as Ho ho ho.
QUOTE(Legion @ Mar 30 2009, 12:23 AM) [snapback]4181949[/snapback]
Cuba's economy = command and control or government control everything = health care is controlled by central government. Total control = more efficiency.
Vietnam's economy = mixed economy (command and control + free market) = health care is mixed--controlled by the the central government and private business.
I am guessing the corruption take place in government service since doctor are not well paid etc.. These corruption are minor and harmless on a big scale, though.
The overall quality of health in Vietnam is regarded as good, as reflected by 2005 estimates of life expectancy (70.61 years) and infant mortality (25.95 per 1,000 live births).
http://www.wpro.who.int/countries/2008/vtn..._priorities.htm
as CSL says, give it time for this new complicated system to adjust. These corruption is just a small bump to a better health care system in the long run.
Vietnam's economy = mixed economy (command and control + free market) = health care is mixed--controlled by the the central government and private business.
I am guessing the corruption take place in government service since doctor are not well paid etc.. These corruption are minor and harmless on a big scale, though.
The overall quality of health in Vietnam is regarded as good, as reflected by 2005 estimates of life expectancy (70.61 years) and infant mortality (25.95 per 1,000 live births).
http://www.wpro.who.int/countries/2008/vtn..._priorities.htm
as CSL says, give it time for this new complicated system to adjust. These corruption is just a small bump to a better health care system in the long run.
Even USA can't control the free market. You think the stupid communism, a failed religion that can't make and enforce law can? The only reason why you don't see the full effect of uncontrolled free market is that it is hidden with the rest of stupidity and corruption, and they love to keep it hidden for as long as possible.
Small bump? Count on large and never ending bump. Probably much like Thailand or Philippine or India. They will never get any better than they are now, at least a long long time that I can't see when.
QUOTE(howstrange @ Mar 30 2009, 01:15 AM) [snapback]4181996[/snapback]
HO ho was part of a failed religion. Some still look upon him as God and the stupid -ism as devine. But we all know it is stupid now, and laughable as Ho ho ho.
all i know is
he chơi đĩ very good
QUOTE(howstrange @ Mar 29 2009, 05:53 AM) [snapback]4180335[/snapback]
We named hospitals: "nhà thương", house of love. Now it is a place where bribery is out of necessity. Everything needs so much money and the govt does not invest enough, barely any. So it is connection and then money talks.
What does this say about our culture that was calling it : "nhà thương", house of love.
What does this say about our culture that was calling it : "nhà thương", house of love.
house of love?
I thought its house for injured, as in nhà cho người bị thương...the north call it bệnh viện, as in viện/chỗ cho bệnh nhân.
Anyways, thats one place in VN i never wanna be in. VN has no health system and nurses and staff get very low pay. Doctors/ surgeons are paid by jobs so they are very well paid. People pay hospital staff to and nurses to get check earlier/push in line and pay nurses to treat them/their family good.
The skills are very low and only a handfull of hospital can treat complicated illness and disease, hence people often have to travel very far for diagnose or treatment . The emergency response is never in a hurry, thats why servere cases end in death.
Security in the hospitals is really bad. pickpockets and thieves are evrywhere and gangs usually go straight in the hospitals to "finnish off" their enemies after a fight
the simple point was to state by example that Vietnamese hospitals ARE corrupt. I don't care for the reasons why.
QUOTE(howstrange @ Mar 30 2009, 04:02 AM) [snapback]4182099[/snapback]
Even USA can't control the free market. You think the stupid communism, a failed religion that can't make and enforce law can? The only reason why you don't see the full effect of uncontrolled free market is that it is hidden with the rest of stupidity and corruption, and they love to keep it hidden for as long as possible.
Small bump? Count on large and never ending bump. Probably much like Thailand or Philippine or India. They will never get any better than they are now, at least a long long time that I can't see when.
Small bump? Count on large and never ending bump. Probably much like Thailand or Philippine or India. They will never get any better than they are now, at least a long long time that I can't see when.
Whatever you think the meaning of hospital is, it is a place to care for the sick not to extract money and treat people dirt cheap. This shows how much we have lost the caring culture, replaced with money, corruption, stupidity, a fine example of a failed religion, stupid -ism.
QUOTE(howstrange @ Mar 30 2009, 02:02 AM) [snapback]4182099[/snapback]
Even USA can't control the free market. You think the stupid communism, a failed religion that can't make and enforce law can? The only reason why you don't see the full effect of uncontrolled free market is that it is hidden with the rest of stupidity and corruption, and they love to keep it hidden for as long as possible.
Small bump? Count on large and never ending bump. Probably much like Thailand or Philippine or India. They will never get any better than they are now, at least a long long time that I can't see when.
Small bump? Count on large and never ending bump. Probably much like Thailand or Philippine or India. They will never get any better than they are now, at least a long long time that I can't see when.
Corruption is there but the overall health system is relatively good. You can say what you want but I like to judge things by result. Although, I agree with you that things can be much better.
QUOTE(Legion @ Mar 30 2009, 12:40 PM) [snapback]4182517[/snapback]
Although, I agree with you that things can be much better.
If it can't even make and enforce law, then you know it is too stupid or too corrupt and therefore only wants things that way for as long as possible. Now if you couple that with the free market where even USA can't control it, you will get more of the same corruption and stupidity if not worse, because the gap between rich and poor will be wider and wider.
In some way I am glad I have USA to use as an example, otherwise most of you will have no idea how corrupt market force is. Market force just loves stupid -ism, failed religion.
What could be better.
Ho Chi Minh is perfected by the party. He is worshiped because he is portrayed as a wonderful, kind, intelligent and patriotic man - the hero of the country.
Now, I must say, regardless the truth, by giving the youth a good figure to worship, the party had laid the moral code for the society. So whether your brain can understand that or not, I give the party credit for that.
Politics is something more complicated than what you see, howstrange. I suggest you go do some study about history and sociology before coming here and totally ignoring the mechanism of this world
The USA or any developed country in the world today has already passed the period like vietnam's economy. Vietnam is just growing more slowly (or should I say much more).
You cannot change the whole country in one second. Obviously, Vietnam is BOOMing and that means the viet government did/does try to do something, not that they intentionally create chaos and corruption. Your judgment is just plain ignorance
Now, I must say, regardless the truth, by giving the youth a good figure to worship, the party had laid the moral code for the society. So whether your brain can understand that or not, I give the party credit for that.
Politics is something more complicated than what you see, howstrange. I suggest you go do some study about history and sociology before coming here and totally ignoring the mechanism of this world
The USA or any developed country in the world today has already passed the period like vietnam's economy. Vietnam is just growing more slowly (or should I say much more).
You cannot change the whole country in one second. Obviously, Vietnam is BOOMing and that means the viet government did/does try to do something, not that they intentionally create chaos and corruption. Your judgment is just plain ignorance
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