I'm not trying to bash Vietnam, but after taking a good hard look at ourselves, are we really the "sick man of Asia"? Except China which is a watermelon compared to other countries in Asia, are we the most under performing country?
We've seen Japan strike it damn rich, South Korea damn rich and to a lesser extent Taiwan. Vietnam is roughly the same size as Japan (a lil smaller) and around 65% of Japan's population, we are a disgrace!
Seriously, it makes you wonder what ever happened to Vietnam?
Full Version: Vietnam
Compare their history with ours and you'll see what happened to Vietnam. That type of success can't be achieve under Vietnam's current governing system.
Communism is whats holding Vietnam back. Before the America war (around the 50's I think) Vietnam's economy was only behind that of Japan's. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Why do you think the French labeled Vietnam the pearl of the orient?
Why do you think the French labeled Vietnam the pearl of the orient?
No, Vietnam is not the sick man of Asia. The term applied to Chinese during the 19th century because Chinese back then does nothing but smoke opium and unwilling to advance. In Vietnam today people are very optimistic, they study really hard to catch up with the rest of the world. For a people that are willing and putting that much effort to do so, you can't call them the sick of man Asia..
As comparing Vietnam to Korea and Japan, the big mistake VIetnam made was to follow China footstep too closely. Vietnam, Korea, Japan, were heavily influenced by Chinese before the 1800s, but when came in contact with westerner the Japanese quickly jumped ship and open up to the west. Vietnam instead didn't take the West seriously, underestimate them like China and that led us to be colonized by the weakest military in the world ->the French.
After WW2, South Vietnam made a lot of accomplishment in modernizing, but unlike South Korea, SV fell to International Communists and that ruined everything. Followed that with 30 years of isolation and again, hanging with the wrong crowd, add to that corruptions and mismangagement.
As comparing Vietnam to Korea and Japan, the big mistake VIetnam made was to follow China footstep too closely. Vietnam, Korea, Japan, were heavily influenced by Chinese before the 1800s, but when came in contact with westerner the Japanese quickly jumped ship and open up to the west. Vietnam instead didn't take the West seriously, underestimate them like China and that led us to be colonized by the weakest military in the world ->the French.
After WW2, South Vietnam made a lot of accomplishment in modernizing, but unlike South Korea, SV fell to International Communists and that ruined everything. Followed that with 30 years of isolation and again, hanging with the wrong crowd, add to that corruptions and mismangagement.
QUOTE (fiji @ Sep 29 2004, 05:12 AM)
No, Vietnam is not the sick man of Asia. The term applied to Chinese during the 19th century because Chinese back then does nothing but smoke opium and unwilling to advance. In Vietnam today people are very optimistic, they study really hard to catch up with the rest of the world. For a people that are willing and putting that much effort to do so, you can't call them the sick of man Asia..
As comparing Vietnam to Korea and Japan, the big mistake VIetnam made was to follow China footstep too closely. Vietnam, Korea, Japan, were heavily influenced by Chinese before the 1800s, but when came in contact with westerner the Japanese quickly jumped ship and open up to the west. Vietnam instead didn't take the West seriously, underestimate them like China and that led us to be colonized by the weakest military in the world ->the French.
After WW2, South Vietnam made a lot of accomplishment in modernizing, but unlike South Korea, SV fell to International Communists and that ruined everything. Followed that with 30 years of isolation and again, hanging with the wrong crowd, add to that corruptions and mismangagement.
As comparing Vietnam to Korea and Japan, the big mistake VIetnam made was to follow China footstep too closely. Vietnam, Korea, Japan, were heavily influenced by Chinese before the 1800s, but when came in contact with westerner the Japanese quickly jumped ship and open up to the west. Vietnam instead didn't take the West seriously, underestimate them like China and that led us to be colonized by the weakest military in the world ->the French.
After WW2, South Vietnam made a lot of accomplishment in modernizing, but unlike South Korea, SV fell to International Communists and that ruined everything. Followed that with 30 years of isolation and again, hanging with the wrong crowd, add to that corruptions and mismangagement.
Yes that term was applied to China by the West. However, even if so, for a country the size of Vietnam, it is not hard to modernised as shown by Korea and Japan. Maybe we are crap.
Somewhat when I go back to Vietnam, the Vietnamese are somewhat greedier than the Chinese. There is a still a lot of red tape in Vietnam for foreigners to start up businesses.
There is always a catch 22 dealing with America, both Japan and Korea are virtual lapdogs of the US.
The difference between Vietnam and Korea/Japan is, Vietnam didn't have U.S. fundings to rebuild its country after the war. Also the fact that the U.S. place sanctions on Vietnam which prohibit Vietnam from trading with the rest of the World except for the U.S.S.R.
Well Vietnam isn't too bright, but but it's moving up at a steadily paste, second only to China (economy groth wise).
On a related issue, comparing to most of it neighbours, Vietnam is not wear near......."sick man of Asia."
On a related issue, comparing to most of it neighbours, Vietnam is not wear near......."sick man of Asia."
QUOTE (fujisan_8 @ Sep 29 2004, 10:09 AM)
I'm not trying to bash Vietnam, but after taking a good hard look at ourselves, are we really the "sick man of Asia"? Except China which is a watermelon compared to other countries in Asia, are we the most under performing country?
We've seen Japan strike it damn rich, South Korea damn rich and to a lesser extent Taiwan. Vietnam is roughly the same size as Japan (a lil smaller) and around 65% of Japan's population, we are a disgrace!
Seriously, it makes you wonder what ever happened to Vietnam?
We've seen Japan strike it damn rich, South Korea damn rich and to a lesser extent Taiwan. Vietnam is roughly the same size as Japan (a lil smaller) and around 65% of Japan's population, we are a disgrace!
Seriously, it makes you wonder what ever happened to Vietnam?
Seriously, this subject has been answered to - hundreds of times on AF :
US's
1. mass killings
2. embargo until 1995
3. shy investments
4. unfair trade practices still ongoing
As to population size:
in the mid-sixties, Vietnam was
14 millions of people in the North
17 millions of people in the South
minus those killed by this US War
during the war, rough death counts:
1.0 million military personnel killed (N & S)
0.5 million civilians killed in the North
1.5 million civilians killed in the South
2.0 million crippled
after the war (1975 - 1989) :
1.0 million civilians deaths by Agent Orange
1.0 million civilians still affected by Agent Orange
(and you can add those either deported or boat people)
Byron can probably give official count...
Yeah, Vietnam can still be the "sick man" on lots of non-Vietnamese people's mind...
vietnam is not sick man of Asia... i think they doing pretty well ....
i'm pretty sure vietnam will reown it's name Asia pearl.... beats japan...
i'm pretty sure vietnam will reown it's name Asia pearl.... beats japan...
it is a lot of changes for the past few years from economy to the ethnic wise, so if vietnam keep it up like this, it will have its own name back, but only the government have to re-look at itself first, get rid all of the corruptions, stop put the "people" money in their own pockets and use that money to build up the country, plus the people be a little more responsibility for their actions, then we will see the bright vietnam shinning ahead of us.
[QUOTE] 康师傅,Sep 29 2004, 08:52 AM
vietnam is not sick man of Asia... i think they doing pretty well ....
i'm pretty sure vietnam will reown it's name Asia pearl.... beats japan...
[/QUOTE]
Hey, Saigon & Hanoi are dirtest cities in Asia. Those cities ranged 20, 21st before cities like Bangladesh or Bombay in 2003. Three of Japanese cities ranged top, then Singapore, Hong Kong, Taipei and Shanghai. Trust me, I've been in all of them. Coming back from Bombay, you will lose all craving for sex.
I predict it 's going to be a long time before Vietnam regains its title "Hon Ngoc Cua Vien Dong" or "Pearl of the Far East."
For Johanjit...
OMG, Si Fu... Welcome back my Si Fu. Are you on vacation with Chomski in Siberia? Thanks for giving us your one sided view. Don’t mind if I add another side of view to it?
[QUOTE]
Seriously, this subject has been answered to - hundreds of times on AF :
[/QUOTE]
Then how come no one has the right answer? You can’t even answer it, my si fu.
[quote]
US's
1. mass killings
[/quote]
Same goes to Vietcong. During Tet offensive, Vietcong systematically killed thousand of South Vietnamese hoping to cripple the South Government.
[quote]
2. embargo until 1995
[/quote]
Vietnam has been closed to US interests and the free world until 1989. They woke up when they‘ve seen China economic reform. VC then kissed Bill Clinton’s behind trying to trade with US. President Bush signed bi-lateral trade agreement when he took office.
[quote]
3. shy investments
[/quote]
Some Americans have made investment in VN. However, most Americans today are afraid to invest in Vietnam because of corruption. If not for corruption, Vietnam economy could be 100 times better. It could benefit more poor people. Imagine 80 millions people are controlled by 2 million communists. That’s 2 millions millionaires.
[quote]
4. unfair trade practices still ongoing
[/quote]
Yes I agree. But let’s blame it to Vietnam side. Vietnam dumped catfish and shrimp to US market. That triggered US protests. US government had to impose tariff to protect US industries.
Look at Vietnam trade laws, it’s very unfair. Trade laws in Vietnam invite corruption and aim to benefit communists. Vietnam had once shutdown Honda and Yamaha factory assembly lines because they banned import motorcycle components. Imported goods are taxed heavily. Traders cannot transfer their earning out of Vietnam without paying huge amount of their $$$ on taxes. Tons of rice are exported to set record quota but it affects domestic supply.
[quote]
As to population size:
in the mid-sixties, Vietnam was
14 millions of people in the North
17 millions of people in the South
minus those killed by this US War
[/quote]
It was Uncle Ho war. but US could partly be blamed. Uncle Ho was a blood thirty communist. His fight led to the deathof millions Vietnamese.
War killed people. Beside the killing back and for, US have saved millions Vietnamese. Remember Operation Baby Lift? Hunred of thousand babies were flown out of VN. Remember homeless AmeAsian kids on cities corners? Thousand of them have now been settled in US. And millions of Viet Kieu?
What the hell Vietcong did good after the war? They 've sent more South Vietnamese to die in re-education camps. That's what they're famous for...
[quote]
during the war, rough death counts:
1.0 million military personnel killed (N & S)
0.5 million civilians killed in the North
1.5 million civilians killed in the South
2.0 million crippled
[/quote]
Uncle Ho killed 1.5 million South Vietnamese. That’s correct. But Vietcong had claimed that US bombing in the North had created minimal impact. Damn VC can say anything!
[quote]
after the war (1975 - 1989) :
1.0 million civilians deaths by Agent Orange
1.0 million civilians still affected by Agent Orange
(and you can add those either deported or boat people)
[/quote]
You could careless about boat people , right Si Fu? You are kidding us on Agent Orange, right? No one was living in the jungle where they sprayed this stuff. Nice try, but no money for Viet Cong. Sorry.
[quote]
Byron can probably give official count...
[/quote]
Here you go my bros MOrito byRON . It’s another Google oppotunity for ya...
[quote]
Yeah, Vietnam can still be the "sick man" on lots of non-Vietnamese people's min
[/quote]
...and most Vietnamese live in and out of VN. Only Vietcong and Vietcong lovers don’t see it.
I hope you go back to Vietnam and open your eyes to help poor people. You should not side with the fricken commie to hurt common people. However, I warn you. Vietnam is not a free country like US. You cannot act like Chomsky or Michael Moore criticizing your own government, the Vietcong. If you fight for the people and be jailed by commies, please don’t worry. I’ll ask Amnesty International, US congress and human rights organizations around the glob to help you. I may even send you monthly allowance to your jail cell. Who knows...
In order for VN to be better, first, restore Vietnam's democracy. The government should listen to people, not oppress people when they grieve. The government should allow all political parties to participate in running the country, and eliminate the monopoly and dictatorship of Communist Party.
The government should let people vote to select their representatives. With multi-parties government, corruption within government will be eliminated. Now, we have a government that work for the benefit of the people. If governemt works for people, living standard will be higher, more people will be educated and Vietnam will go back to the pre 1975 civilization, "The Pearl Of The Far East."
vietnam is not sick man of Asia... i think they doing pretty well ....
i'm pretty sure vietnam will reown it's name Asia pearl.... beats japan...
[/QUOTE]
Hey, Saigon & Hanoi are dirtest cities in Asia. Those cities ranged 20, 21st before cities like Bangladesh or Bombay in 2003. Three of Japanese cities ranged top, then Singapore, Hong Kong, Taipei and Shanghai. Trust me, I've been in all of them. Coming back from Bombay, you will lose all craving for sex.
I predict it 's going to be a long time before Vietnam regains its title "Hon Ngoc Cua Vien Dong" or "Pearl of the Far East."
For Johanjit...
OMG, Si Fu... Welcome back my Si Fu. Are you on vacation with Chomski in Siberia? Thanks for giving us your one sided view. Don’t mind if I add another side of view to it?
[QUOTE]
Seriously, this subject has been answered to - hundreds of times on AF :
[/QUOTE]
Then how come no one has the right answer? You can’t even answer it, my si fu.
[quote]
US's
1. mass killings
[/quote]
Same goes to Vietcong. During Tet offensive, Vietcong systematically killed thousand of South Vietnamese hoping to cripple the South Government.
[quote]
2. embargo until 1995
[/quote]
Vietnam has been closed to US interests and the free world until 1989. They woke up when they‘ve seen China economic reform. VC then kissed Bill Clinton’s behind trying to trade with US. President Bush signed bi-lateral trade agreement when he took office.
[quote]
3. shy investments
[/quote]
Some Americans have made investment in VN. However, most Americans today are afraid to invest in Vietnam because of corruption. If not for corruption, Vietnam economy could be 100 times better. It could benefit more poor people. Imagine 80 millions people are controlled by 2 million communists. That’s 2 millions millionaires.
[quote]
4. unfair trade practices still ongoing
[/quote]
Yes I agree. But let’s blame it to Vietnam side. Vietnam dumped catfish and shrimp to US market. That triggered US protests. US government had to impose tariff to protect US industries.
Look at Vietnam trade laws, it’s very unfair. Trade laws in Vietnam invite corruption and aim to benefit communists. Vietnam had once shutdown Honda and Yamaha factory assembly lines because they banned import motorcycle components. Imported goods are taxed heavily. Traders cannot transfer their earning out of Vietnam without paying huge amount of their $$$ on taxes. Tons of rice are exported to set record quota but it affects domestic supply.
[quote]
As to population size:
in the mid-sixties, Vietnam was
14 millions of people in the North
17 millions of people in the South
minus those killed by this US War
[/quote]
It was Uncle Ho war. but US could partly be blamed. Uncle Ho was a blood thirty communist. His fight led to the deathof millions Vietnamese.
War killed people. Beside the killing back and for, US have saved millions Vietnamese. Remember Operation Baby Lift? Hunred of thousand babies were flown out of VN. Remember homeless AmeAsian kids on cities corners? Thousand of them have now been settled in US. And millions of Viet Kieu?
What the hell Vietcong did good after the war? They 've sent more South Vietnamese to die in re-education camps. That's what they're famous for...
[quote]
during the war, rough death counts:
1.0 million military personnel killed (N & S)
0.5 million civilians killed in the North
1.5 million civilians killed in the South
2.0 million crippled
[/quote]
Uncle Ho killed 1.5 million South Vietnamese. That’s correct. But Vietcong had claimed that US bombing in the North had created minimal impact. Damn VC can say anything!
[quote]
after the war (1975 - 1989) :
1.0 million civilians deaths by Agent Orange
1.0 million civilians still affected by Agent Orange
(and you can add those either deported or boat people)
[/quote]
You could careless about boat people , right Si Fu? You are kidding us on Agent Orange, right? No one was living in the jungle where they sprayed this stuff. Nice try, but no money for Viet Cong. Sorry.
[quote]
Byron can probably give official count...
[/quote]
Here you go my bros MOrito byRON . It’s another Google oppotunity for ya...
[quote]
Yeah, Vietnam can still be the "sick man" on lots of non-Vietnamese people's min
[/quote]
...and most Vietnamese live in and out of VN. Only Vietcong and Vietcong lovers don’t see it.
I hope you go back to Vietnam and open your eyes to help poor people. You should not side with the fricken commie to hurt common people. However, I warn you. Vietnam is not a free country like US. You cannot act like Chomsky or Michael Moore criticizing your own government, the Vietcong. If you fight for the people and be jailed by commies, please don’t worry. I’ll ask Amnesty International, US congress and human rights organizations around the glob to help you. I may even send you monthly allowance to your jail cell. Who knows...
In order for VN to be better, first, restore Vietnam's democracy. The government should listen to people, not oppress people when they grieve. The government should allow all political parties to participate in running the country, and eliminate the monopoly and dictatorship of Communist Party.
The government should let people vote to select their representatives. With multi-parties government, corruption within government will be eliminated. Now, we have a government that work for the benefit of the people. If governemt works for people, living standard will be higher, more people will be educated and Vietnam will go back to the pre 1975 civilization, "The Pearl Of The Far East."
After war for about 30 years and sanctions for another 20, there hasn't been much time to rebuild the country. Lets just hope that peace will last long enough for the country to rebuild.
VietNamDNCongHoa,
hahaha you want to stick to me?!!! why not just go home and ask
Daddy, were you a war criminal???
You believe in BBC News, do you? Here it goes...
Just ask your daddy!
Now that the classified documents are declassified, your US friends war veterans change their version, and say
"They, the [ARVN South] Vietnamese did it [the killings of civilians], not us [the US Army]!!!"
Just try Google "lies" + "Vietnam"
http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&...&q=lies+Vietnam
Millions of documents will tell you...
That's why Vietnam is the sick man: yes, the Vietnamese did it... not the US...
That's pretty crude? I've spared you photos of what a whorehouse for "allied forces" Saigon was happily turned into by their Vietnamese friends (those you can easily recognized, those with that yellow flag for freedom! Vietnamese villagers free hunting!)... These photos were taken and collected on their websites as loving souvenirs by the "allied forces" against the Vietnamese people.
fujisan_8,
You want more reasons?
All of you,
You know very well that the US Dollar has dropped a 30% further since last year's spendings again on war...
hahaha you want to stick to me?!!! why not just go home and ask
Daddy, were you a war criminal???
You believe in BBC News, do you? Here it goes...
QUOTE ( [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/716609.stm")
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-...ific/716609.stm[/url] ]Corruption
In 1973 a peace agreement was signed. It left Vietnam still partitioned but with enclaves of communist troops dotted across the south.
Saigon's leader, President Nguyen Van Thieu, may have commanded the world's fourth largest army, but it was riddled with greed and incompetence.
Colonel David Hackworth, the most decorated US combat officer in Vietnam, says many of the South Vietnamese generals he knew were in it for one thing.
"The Americans were so dumb that they were shovelling money in by the wheel barrow and the [Vietnamese officers] were simply grabbing it and opening business after business.
"They were businessmen, not fighting generals," he adds.
It's a harsh judgement, but accurate.
In 1973 a peace agreement was signed. It left Vietnam still partitioned but with enclaves of communist troops dotted across the south.
Saigon's leader, President Nguyen Van Thieu, may have commanded the world's fourth largest army, but it was riddled with greed and incompetence.
Colonel David Hackworth, the most decorated US combat officer in Vietnam, says many of the South Vietnamese generals he knew were in it for one thing.
"The Americans were so dumb that they were shovelling money in by the wheel barrow and the [Vietnamese officers] were simply grabbing it and opening business after business.
"They were businessmen, not fighting generals," he adds.
It's a harsh judgement, but accurate.
Just ask your daddy!
QUOTE
If you have to lie about something, it is wrong.
On his way to Hanoi [...], when asked if he thought the United States owed the people of Vietnam an apology, 25 years after the end of the war, Clinton said, simply, "No, I don't."
[...] To apologize for crimes against the people of Vietnam would be to admit that the stories we tell ourselves about our conduct in the world -- then and now -- are a lie.
To apologize would be to acknowledge that while we claimed to be defending democracy, we were derailing democracy. While we claimed to be defending South Vietnam, we were attacking the people of South Vietnam.
[...] we dropped 6.5 million tons of bombs and 400,000 tons of napalm on the people of Southeast Asia. Saturation bombing of civilian areas, counterterrorism programs and political assassination, routine killings of civilians and 11.2 million gallons of Agent Orange to destroy crops and ground cover -- all were part of the U.S. terror war in Vietnam, as well as Laos and Cambodia.
If Vietnam Was A Noble Cause, Why Were There So Many Lies?
http://www.commondreams.org/views/050200-103.htm
On his way to Hanoi [...], when asked if he thought the United States owed the people of Vietnam an apology, 25 years after the end of the war, Clinton said, simply, "No, I don't."
[...] To apologize for crimes against the people of Vietnam would be to admit that the stories we tell ourselves about our conduct in the world -- then and now -- are a lie.
To apologize would be to acknowledge that while we claimed to be defending democracy, we were derailing democracy. While we claimed to be defending South Vietnam, we were attacking the people of South Vietnam.
[...] we dropped 6.5 million tons of bombs and 400,000 tons of napalm on the people of Southeast Asia. Saturation bombing of civilian areas, counterterrorism programs and political assassination, routine killings of civilians and 11.2 million gallons of Agent Orange to destroy crops and ground cover -- all were part of the U.S. terror war in Vietnam, as well as Laos and Cambodia.
If Vietnam Was A Noble Cause, Why Were There So Many Lies?
http://www.commondreams.org/views/050200-103.htm
Now that the classified documents are declassified, your US friends war veterans change their version, and say
"They, the [ARVN South] Vietnamese did it [the killings of civilians], not us [the US Army]!!!"
Just try Google "lies" + "Vietnam"
http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&...&q=lies+Vietnam
Millions of documents will tell you...
That's why Vietnam is the sick man: yes, the Vietnamese did it... not the US...
QUOTE
Striptease
As the North Vietnamese entered Saigon, the South Vietnamese soldiers leapt out of their uniforms in a mass striptease.
Their combat gear and boots were left strewn across the streets. Three divisions of the South Vietnamese Army around Saigon melted away, the soldiers returning to their villages.
Colonel Hackworth says the North Vietnamese troops were the most motivated soldiers he had ever seen.
"They had lots of fire in their belly. They were well led. They were totally dedicated and they weren't fighting for communism,'' he adds.
"They were fighting for independence much like the Americans in 1776 were fighting against the British. They wanted their country free of any foreign oppression."
As the North Vietnamese entered Saigon, the South Vietnamese soldiers leapt out of their uniforms in a mass striptease.
Their combat gear and boots were left strewn across the streets. Three divisions of the South Vietnamese Army around Saigon melted away, the soldiers returning to their villages.
Colonel Hackworth says the North Vietnamese troops were the most motivated soldiers he had ever seen.
"They had lots of fire in their belly. They were well led. They were totally dedicated and they weren't fighting for communism,'' he adds.
"They were fighting for independence much like the Americans in 1776 were fighting against the British. They wanted their country free of any foreign oppression."
That's pretty crude? I've spared you photos of what a whorehouse for "allied forces" Saigon was happily turned into by their Vietnamese friends (those you can easily recognized, those with that yellow flag for freedom! Vietnamese villagers free hunting!)... These photos were taken and collected on their websites as loving souvenirs by the "allied forces" against the Vietnamese people.
fujisan_8,
You want more reasons?
All of you,
You know very well that the US Dollar has dropped a 30% further since last year's spendings again on war...
If you look at the situation, yes Vietnam is underperforming. But I wouldn't be going as far as calling Vietnam "sick man of Asia". You need to take into account her recent history of the last 100 years or even 30 years. The French colonised us and carted away our natural resources. We then had to fight the French and the Americans for our independence, which hindered our economic progress. Also, when the Americans left in 1973, they left a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam in ruins, and basic infrastructures were damaged or none existent. Additionally, they imposed a trade embargo that lasted until 1994.
You see, we lost all those time while the Koreans, Japanese and Taiwanese were allowed to develop unhindered and even with American economic aid and technical assistance. We had and still have to do it all alone.
Considering how fast and stable we're growing now, I'm not all disappointed.
Yes, without wars the is without doubt Vietnam would have been prosperous. But I'd rather have independence, dignity and pride than prosperity knowing that your country is a puppet of the United States.
We will have our place in the sun, don't worry.
You see, we lost all those time while the Koreans, Japanese and Taiwanese were allowed to develop unhindered and even with American economic aid and technical assistance. We had and still have to do it all alone.
Considering how fast and stable we're growing now, I'm not all disappointed.
Yes, without wars the is without doubt Vietnam would have been prosperous. But I'd rather have independence, dignity and pride than prosperity knowing that your country is a puppet of the United States.
We will have our place in the sun, don't worry.
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ Sep 29 2004, 03:27 PM)
If you look at the situation, yes Vietnam is underperforming. But I wouldn't be going as far as calling Vietnam "sick man of Asia". You need to take into account her recent history of the last 100 years or even 30 years. The French colonised us and carted away our natural resources. We then had to fight the French and the Americans for our independence, which hindered our economic progress. Also, when the Americans left in 1973, they left a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam in ruins, and basic infrastructures were damaged or none existent. Additionally, they imposed a trade embargo that lasted until 1994.
You see, we lost all those time while the Koreans, Japanese and Taiwanese were allowed to develop unhindered and even with American economic aid and technical assistance. We had and still have to do it all alone.
Considering how fast and stable we're growing now, I'm not all disappointed.
Yes, without wars the is without doubt Vietnam would have been prosperous. But I'd rather have independence, dignity and pride than prosperity knowing that your country is a puppet of the United States.
We will have our place in the sun, don't worry.
You see, we lost all those time while the Koreans, Japanese and Taiwanese were allowed to develop unhindered and even with American economic aid and technical assistance. We had and still have to do it all alone.
Considering how fast and stable we're growing now, I'm not all disappointed.
Yes, without wars the is without doubt Vietnam would have been prosperous. But I'd rather have independence, dignity and pride than prosperity knowing that your country is a puppet of the United States.
We will have our place in the sun, don't worry.
Same thing with what happened with China
. Vietnam is going through drastic changes from which I can tell. Its only a matter of time.
QUOTE
Same goes to Vietcong. During Tet offensive, Vietcong systematically killed thousand of South Vietnamese hoping to cripple the South Government.
Don't forget the terrorists (Viet Cong) in South Vietnam who killed people with their indiscriminate bombings of cafe and other public gatherings. Hue Massacre, mass burials in the north, the countless purges, and the execution of political
prisoners that still goes on today.
QUOTE
For a reporter returning to Vietnam 25 years on there's much to admire. The steely sense of self sufficiency, real progress in health care and education.
But the military boldness shown by the north when it swallowed up the south has never been matched by any political audacity.
Even today, the one party state, and its old style communist custodians, is afraid of new ideas.
Beneath the veneer of unified Vietnam the north and south remain two very different places.
But the military boldness shown by the north when it swallowed up the south has never been matched by any political audacity.
Even today, the one party state, and its old style communist custodians, is afraid of new ideas.
Beneath the veneer of unified Vietnam the north and south remain two very different places.
From the same BBC articles used above (except it was not quoted). Since someone is so insistence on taking things out of context and distorting the fact that we're being held back because of the US and South Vietnamese govt and not the corrupt and incompetence communists --> The article actually claims at the end that's it's the Viet Cong's govt fault for not matching its blood thristy "military boldness" with political audiacity to implement reforms because the "old style communist custodians is afraid of new ideas."
QUOTE
Beneath the veneer of unified Vietnam the north and south remain two very different places
This is very telling. Even under the supposedly "inadequete S.V. govt" the South and esspecially Saigon even today remains much more economically vibrant than Hanoi, where the capital of communists Vietnam is. Whatever problems the South Vietnamese govt had, it was still better than the communists govt.
QUOTE
Why do you think the French labeled Vietnam the pearl of the orient?
i thought hong kong is the "pearl of orient"?
QUOTE
We've seen Japan strike it damn rich, South Korea damn rich and to a lesser extent Taiwan.
taiwan is richer than s.korea(GNI per capita: US $12,900 (government statistic, 2002) versus GNI per capita: US $9,930 (World Bank, 2002) )
taiwan
korea
so are singapore and hong kong
QUOTE (ZurichGrrl @ Sep 29 2004, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE
Why do you think the French labeled Vietnam the pearl of the orient?
i thought hong kong is the "pearl of orient"?
that's past.. now HK is pearl of orient
QUOTE (康师傅 @ Sep 29 2004, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE (ZurichGrrl @ Sep 29 2004, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE
Why do you think the French labeled Vietnam the pearl of the orient?
i thought hong kong is the "pearl of orient"?
that's past.. now HK is pearl of orient
it's all about opinions, and who cares what westerner labeled it
QUOTE (康师傅 @ Sep 29 2004, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE (ZurichGrrl @ Sep 29 2004, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE
Why do you think the French labeled Vietnam the pearl of the orient?
i thought hong kong is the "pearl of orient"?
that's past.. now HK is pearl of orient
That's just a label the British gave HK, it doesn't mean anything. Same goes for the French giving the title to Saigon.
QUOTE
taiwan is richer than s.korea(GNI per capita: US $12,900 (government statistic, 2002) versus GNI per capita: US $9,930 (World Bank, 2002) )
taiwan
korea
so are singapore and hong kong
taiwan
korea
so are singapore and hong kong
uh.. korea's gni you put is quite outdated.
gni per capita(u.s. dollars): $12,020 (2003)
gni per capita(international dollars): $17,930 (2003)
total gdp(in millions): $605,331(11th)
i want to put taiwan's current gni on here also but for some reason the world bank does not have taiwan.
gni rank
http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GNIPC.pdf
gdp rank
http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP.pdf
Vietnam has a possitive future. It had an annual growth rate of 7.6% from 1990 to 2003. It is ranked 3rd in terms of annual growth rates just behind China and Ireland.
QUOTE (MiSta MujiGe @ Sep 29 2004, 06:20 PM)
QUOTE
taiwan is richer than s.korea(GNI per capita: US $12,900 (government statistic, 2002) versus GNI per capita: US $9,930 (World Bank, 2002) )
taiwan
korea
so are singapore and hong kong
taiwan
korea
so are singapore and hong kong
uh.. korea's gni you put is quite outdated.
gni per capita(u.s. dollars): $12,020 (2003)
gni per capita(international dollars): $17,930 (2003)
total gdp(in millions): $605,331(11th)
i want to put taiwan's current gni on here also but for some reason the world bank does not have taiwan.
gni rank
http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GNIPC.pdf
gdp rank
http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP.pdf
Its not really about HOW MUCH YOU EARN PER CAPITA, rather how you have to take into consideration about inflation, living standards, etc.
For example, Canada and Australia earn less than Japan but the lifestyle in both the former countries I dare say is a lot more relaxing and luxurious than Japan. In both the former countries, if one doesnt have a degree, he/she doesnt need to beg.
Asian countries just place too much emphasis on the $$$.
QUOTE (Nam Quoc Son Ha @ Sep 29 2004, 05:46 PM)
QUOTE (康师傅 @ Sep 29 2004, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE (ZurichGrrl @ Sep 29 2004, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE
Why do you think the French labeled Vietnam the pearl of the orient?
i thought hong kong is the "pearl of orient"?
that's past.. now HK is pearl of orient
That's just a label the British gave HK, it doesn't mean anything. Same goes for the French giving the title to Saigon.
er.. even american call HK that too.. so is China and other countries
here is profile for taiwan
Taiwan GNI per capita: US $12,900 (government statistic, 2002)
Korea GNI per capita: US $9,930 (World Bank, 2002)
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