France voiced support Monday for Japan's quest for permanent membership on the U.N. Security Council but the European Union as a whole refrained from stating its position clearly. Foreign Minister Yoriko Kawaguchi and French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier agreed on the need to increase the number of both permanent and nonpermanent U.N. Security Council members as part of U.N. reform, Japanese officials said.

But three EU foreign ministers Kawaguchi later met said there are various opinions within the EU about U.N. reform and that it is important to strengthen not only the function of the U.N. Security Council but also the function of the United Nations as a whole, including the tasks of the U.N. General Assembly and the Economic and Social Council, they said.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=9&id=312744

I am surprised the French have agreed to support Japan. I would never have believed a country so racist and arrogant would lend a 'helping hand'. Of course, this does not mean I will look differently at the French.

And yeah, the EU never really had a strong relationship with Japan. It doesn't surprise me - the only Western nation Japan looks with any real interest in is the U.S. Europe is simply a place to make a little extra pocket money: nothing drastically important to bother about.

Japan should not bother with the E.U. There are more important countries to garner support from. First and foremost, Japan should work to heal rifts and promote ties with China (and vice versa). Then India, Russia and, of course, the U.S. should be another top priority. The first two are experiencing rapid economic growth and the U.S. has always had a lot of influence (and "support") over Japan.

Good points as usual musashino.

I read yesterday that we {the UK} have also voiced support for Japan to join as a permanent UN Security Council member.

In fact the only country who didn't want Japan to join is China (Russian opinion is apparantly unclear).

I agree that Japan's argument about its humanitarian work in Iraq & Afghanistan, efforts to curb North Korea's nuclear arms and it's net contribution to the UN itself (second only to the US) are justified.

Ogumo, what do you think about the French?

It has occured to me that there isn't much love between them and the Japanese.

One of their ministers made a despicable remark about Kyoto (while forgetting what a dump Paris is), while Charles de Gaul has been known to have made racist remarks about the Japanese. And there have been many instances where the French have shown quite an ignorant attitude towards the Japanese public in general.

Yet I find it unusual that the French are widely liked and admired in Japan. Why is that so? Is it the 'white-culture superiority' complex, or do the Japanese somehow identify themselves with the French?

The UNSC hardly functions with 5 members, the last thing we need is more members.

Here's my plan:

Merge France, Britain and Germany as one seat (they might get along fine)
USA one seat
Russia one seat
China one seat
Japan and South Korea one seat (this could work)
Africa one seat (they're pretty much one voice on most issues)
Brazil and Argentina one seat (same as Africa)
India and Pakistan one seat (this will never work... LOL)

In addition, anti-Japan sentiment is strong among its neighbors, including Korea and China, which were victims of its imperialistic ambitions. What Japan needs to do before seeking a new U.N. role is to win the respect of its neighbors by repenting the wrongdoings it made in the colonial past and demonstrating its desire to live peacefully with them, instead of repeating the past mistakes. Otherwise, it will continue to face such opposition as came from China.

In its official comment on Japan's bid for a permanent UNSC seat, China correctly said it cannot buy the esteemed status with money alone. The U.N. Security Council is not a corporate board of directors, as pointed out by China, one of its five permanent members.

Regrettably, however, no official comment was forthcoming from South Korea. The South Korean government was making a grave mistake if it was withholding an official response reflecting the public sentiment against Japan's bid just because President Roh Moo-hyun recently made an inappropriate promise to Koizumi not to take issue with Japan's colonial past during his term in office.

I am not fond of the French. They look down on japanese people. To them we are nothing more than little rice eating transistor salesmen.



Indeed. However the french are this way to almost everyone. I can't really say that they are going out of their way for the japanese.



Japanese if anything would identify more with the british then french. France is seen as this exotic and fashionable place. So yes it argueably part of the blind admiration to these european countries.



I think that japan has a strong possibility to get this seat despite what china feels.

Japan is a "Enemy State" according to UN Charter. It also said that the 5 Allied nations who Won WW2 has authority to attack former axis powers that lost WW2 without UN approval.

Plus, The top 5 seats are for 5 nations who Won WW2. Japan LOST WW2. heh.

i thought they have to get unanimous votes in order to get a permanent seat. correct me if i'm wrong.

despite what China feels? We got veto power. Japan isn't getting a seat anytime soon sry pal.

Actually that's correct. I don't know how but I forgot about that rule.

I think that the UNSC needs more members. More permanent members would add some much needed legitimacy.

I think Japan should be allowed to join. The only way that we can progress from WWII is by having such cooperation. Hence why I think Germany, India & Brazil should also join.
I would also like see two permanent seats for Africa to counteract the balance of power.

Ogumo, in reference to your quote "Japanese would identify more with the British than French" you raise a good point. Both are island nations who have arguably punched-above-their weight on the international scene, both have faded imperial aspirations and are to a large degree homogeneous in their populations...

I wonder why you are so sure that China would veto this.
If China veto Japan then it also has to Veto Germany and India or whatever.

The last thing we need is NINE permanent SC members. The UN is a mess as it already is, it is dying at its fundamental roots. Once the novelty wears off, they're going to find out exactly how useless that position is.

you see thats the point. We can't move on from WW2 unless Japan acknowledges the atrocities it commited in WW2. I have no hate toward Japanese ppl just toward their government. They need to be responsible like the Germans. You know how much $$ in reparations Germany had to pay? yet Japan didn't even pay a penny fraction of that. Also do you know that Hitler killed himself and Horohito is still a famed emperor? Its hipocracy. Also Why would China let japan join knowing the past? There are many right wing Japanese that would love to build up their military. Isn't that kinda of against the pacifist ideology? Also you said Japan is doing its part internationally. This is laughable considering the Oil at stake in IRAQ.

So? Why should they remain pacifist?

The terms and restrictions in their constitution and post-war treaties with the Allies are old, outdated, and no longer makes any logical sense to follow. Japan in the present day and in 1945 are not the same. They are the second largest economy in the world and largest cash contributor to the UN, why should they continue to let the Americans tell them what's best for their interests? :genius:




Isn't that what everyone else does? Including America, China, and even the French? Every nation on this Earth take action out of their own interests, so I see no reason why Japan should be singled out for such criticism. :genius:

why should they remain pacifists? Again denial of WW2 actrocities and the invasion of most of Asia. Gimme a break WW2 isn't ancient. Your grandparents are still alive. You want to revive German Nazism? Japanese Rise of the Sun mentality. Sure people should be forgiven but does Japan deserve it? They need to prove themselves *responsible. Not acknowledging or even formally apologizing is an example of not taking the responsible role. For crying out loud, koizumi still visits the shrine which honors war criminals. Right wing Japanese politicians deny the truth about Nanjing. Japanese schoolbooks are teaching their youth that Japan was the victim of WW2 that japan was only trying to help its neighbors. I'm sorry but this is not acceptable. If you are not Chinese then you probably won't understand. People today still remember the past. My family was affected by the Japanese, some were killed. Not saying that the Japanese people is responsible but its government is.

Ah it's like that wé think about france in japan.

Ya, I don't know if nowadays French think as it. But it's not all french who are racist.
besides if the french are racist it's a little more against blacks and Arabs.

But it's true I don't hear or read much things about Japan. But Are French racist ?? ?

I dunno, but me I like japan although your contrie is like our not perfrect.
Ya, each contrie has something to reproach herself.

But maybe you have true... French are racist... And Japan aren't racist ???

You're not the only one to suffer. I am Korean, my father's uncle was crippled from Japanese torture, and my own grandfather was forcibly recruited by the Imperial Army and saw action in Manchuria and cheated death many times. There was generally a lot of hardship and very savage treatment to everyone I know old enough to have lived in those times.

As much as it is sickening for the Japanese to continue taking a backward step in history, the crazed obsession of the Chinese and the downright childish and immature attitude demonstrated by their leaders and the public (like Jiang Zemin walking away fuming from the Japanese PM) isn't really helping to propel things forward either. They have to start using their heads instead of acting out of pure emotions.

I am not discounting the importance of history and the need for Japan to repent their WWII crimes, but China's constant whining and b!tching isn't encouraging the Japanese to come forward either. Korean leaders acted sensibly and got a personal verbal and written apology from Koizumi himself in return. Why can't the Chinese leaders grow up a little and do the same? Open up dialogue, talk about trade and other things, warm up to them a little, and the apology will come sooner or later. Constant criticism only creates bad blood, and makes the Japanese not want to apologize even more.

lol you are such a hypocrite. In order to recieve me must give. We did give. Its called millions of lives. If someone stabbed and raped your mom. Would you be nice to that person and kiss up to that person to recieve an apology? I'm sorry but the world doesn't run that way. Why shouldn't we be upset? We have the right to be upset with Japan. That doesnt mean we b!tch.

Just being realistic here. Either you stick to your pride and sense of justice and never get an apology, or you swallow them and get a bitter reward. It's a $hitty deal, but you gotta make a choice.

so you are saying Koreans don't have pride? You are almost wording it like as if Koreans gave up hope of an honest apology from Japan. You think I want to be mad at the Japanese government? Its a matter of right and wrong, not a matter of having pride or not. Would you have stayed content if Germany never payed reparations for the survivors of the Holocaust? The Chinese is not the enemy in this issue. All they want is justice.

It's not the same. Japanese leaders simply don't understand why the Chinese leaders are getting so personal in this matter. After all, their ancestors who committed the actual crimes are either dead or dying. It doesn't mean they're completely free of the responsibilities, but they simply don't like China's down-and-dirty personal attacks against an administration that took no part in the killing.

That is why there has to be change. The Japanese government has to inform its people of the truth. They have been washing down the facts since the end of WW2. I'm not saying Japanese are bad. I'm saying their system, there government is not taking enough action. Like I said before, history books are being distorted. If this goes on, it can be very damaging in the future. Now I'm sure not everyone in Japan is Clueless, so why not step up to the plate?

The point of being down and dirty. How is the PRC being down and dirty? I can understand prc citizens or individuals but overall I think relations between PRC and the Japanese government are good. They are major trade partners you know.

The Korean government didn't really give up, they simply chose not to talk about it. Japan has long been our biggest trade partner, and we depend a lot more on them than vice versa, and in the eyes of the government, losing big $$$ and risking economic catastrophe is not worth for such a "trivial" thing as history. They kept a lid on it, and one day PM Koizumi gave our President a word of apology in person and a written statement on it, without us even asking for it. Patience pays off.



I'm not disputing that. You have ALL the right to be mad, and to be seeking justice, but the reality of the situation is, it's only going to annoy and discourage the Japanese from apologizing, if you continue bashing them.

I gotta run... I have classes.

I'll post my thoughts later on, cheers.

There are many right wing chinese that are currently building up the chinese military.



America also allowed the emperor to live. If america says he can live did you expect for the japanese to say he must die?



It could mean many things. But hipocracy? Explain.



Of course. However the one that forced this ridiculous ideology doesn't even care about it anymore. So why should we?



Please explain how japan is not doing it's part internationally.



Building a standing army and bringing back a imperialist ideology are two different things. Do not exaggerate.



Explain this.



Japanese school books don't teach specifically "japan was helping it's neighbors". However I must admit one would get that idea.



They sure the hell did b!tch at that soccer game and two days after it ended.



I can definately agree.

Most of S. Korean leaders were Japanese collaborators, so they had no problem with being more "moderate" about the past.

Anyways, I don't really understand why you think it's important that Chinese leaders have to be more "moderate" and be "less childish" in your words. I personally think it's quite fine that relations stay as they are. Not friendly but not an open war. I think in the near future, China will dwarf Japan in comprehensive national power so I don't think it should be a big deal what Japan thinks.

Once Japan settles its issues about Warcrime Atrocites with China, and Korea, THEN it can continue on settling issues INTERNATIONALLY.

Good points Ogumo.

fk650:



"Most"?



It would make China look more friendly in the eyes of the world.



I personally would like to see improvements made from both sides. A war cannot be avoided if relations stay as they are.



I think China will not ignore Japan. I cannot imagine how China can possibly ignore incidents such as the compensation/apology demands; the textbook controversy; the Senkaku/Diaoyu island dispute and Yasukuni shrine.

Made in China:



Japan will do whatever it decides is best for its own interests, whether we like it or not.