I think its over now as the Hmongs are starving.

YES THE WAR IS STILL EXIST....THE PATHIC LAO AND WITH THE COMMUNIST VIETCONG ARE STILL PROSECUTING MANY LAO AND HMONG IN THE MOUNTAIN OF LAOS.....

I think jinglebells would like to see some proof photonicism, why dont you show her/him some proof, and none of those websites individuals create. where you just read up on them

Stop your hateful bashing

Man, are you representing the government of Thailand? Are you like the official spokeman?

Laos and Vietnam should stop persecuting the Hmong! That is just wrong!

^LOLHAHAHAHHAHAAHAH! 2

Umm...you're the most unintelligent, uneducated, ignorant person I've seen on this thing. This is the "Lao Serious Talk" and you come in here with your accusations and threats. First of all, Khoun never said that he supported the genocide. (accusation) He just doesn't believe it exists.

Now me, I don't doubt it's happening. I don't doubt our Laotian government is corrupt and selfish. Their lives are driven by money, and I don't doubt ANY of it. I believe it's happening, and I DON'T agree with it.

But YOU, I don't agree with you! I don't doubt you guys have evidence it's going on but to make your argument stronger, you need to show that evidence in your post. Be more convincing.

And threatening to kill Khoun? Who are you? You disagree with the genocide but you'll kill him? Hyprocrite. Why can't you have a normal argument without bringing up stupid ganster murder crap? If it's what you live for then don't come to this chat.

And yeah, the government is killing your people, because you don't belong in our land. This wouldn't be a problem if you weren't in our mountains in the first place. I've met a lot of your people in my life, and half of you don't claim you or your parents are from Laos. You don't want to claim Laos, and Laos doen't want to claim you. It's their land, and they hold power over you. They'll do whatever they want, right or wrong. Our people are fighting each other because we dispise each other.

I don't agree with the genocide, but think twice before you complain. You guys are awesome at migrating to a new area when someone's government treats you bad. The American governent doesn't seem to give pity, so there's your solution right there.

It's the Lao land. Take an archaelogist there, and they'll dig up LAOTIAN history. Hmongs want the Laotian land, and the Laotians don't to give it to them. The way they handle it is by all means wrong, but are any communist governments just?

My point is, the next time you complain, think about it. You're somewhere where the owners of the land don't feel you belong. Basically...you're fishing for it.

[/quote]

Even though I'm just half hmong I stand up for my people. I DOUBT THAT HMONG PEOPLE WANTED LAOTIONS COUNTRY. I MEAN NONE OF US KNOWS THE TRUTH.
YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN ANYONE INCLUDING MYSELF.

Go and swallow up that 1975 peace accord treaty than we'll be on your side that those hmong just want your focken land and they deserved to be wipe out.

Overload of political involvement on the matters.
And far overload of innocents among the Mhong communities and Loatian communities.
Stop the flaming and basing, merely only small handful of people represent the problem.
Therefore don't extended bigger and worser.
If we are continuing bashing one another, we are not giong to solve the actual problem.

Let find efficent and effective way to promote peace amongs most of us, I am quite sure we are the innocent ones.

the current lao government is not committing genocide against the hmong ethnic, but instead fighting against the remnant forces from the vietnam war era that are still loyal to gen vang pao and the royal lao government in exile. these rebel forces are directly being politically controlled by their hmong and lao american masters that still have dreams of winning a war that cannot be won against the lpdr backed by their brother vietnam. so as long as the chao fa continue to be a rebel force that directly plans to over throw the government the threat will be taken out.

gen vang pao and his war pals know very well the power of camera/media and how to play the psyop game. they will cook up schemes of genocide portraying the hmong to the media as innocent christians that are deliberatly being slaughtered for just their different ethnicity. But the world knows and cannot be fooled. the chao fa should not keep women and children with them if they want war because when the lpdr find them they are shooting to kill. "once again taking out the threat."

the lao people and lao government has treated the hmong better than any other country in history. how can we trust the hmong if they are always destabilizing the country? don't believe all of that propaganda you hear about, it is nothing more than to get your moral and financial support to fight a war that ended in the 70's. gen vang pao is offering hmong americans the oppertunity to buy government postitions for a post war lao country. hmong americans being swindled to make monthly payments for nothing. what is that about? is that not evidence of a direct threat to the lpdr?

life is what you make it. i feel no sympathy for the chao fa and the laotion vang tao rebels. while the rest of the world is moving their country forward and making great economic strides we are still living in the past and setting our country and people back further in the stoneage. gen vanp pao needs to preach unity because without that we cannot move forward.

"dont ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

[quote=eterniteezangel,Oct 10 2005, 08:38 PM]
Where did get that informaton from? Have you ever been to Lao P.D.R. before? If you did not see for yourself, don't beleive and try to pass on the wrong info to other people. That's the definition of ignorant person. If there was a killing in Lao P.D.R., then Lao P.D.R. wouldn't host the AMM meeting.

Thanks,
Khoun

[/quote]
Soo I'm guessing you support the Genocide in Laos right... I mean
we got evidence to prove that your PDR raped and killed 4 Hmong teenage girl
and slaughterd One Hmong teenage boy.

Mind telling me that's a Lie.... I think not... you my friend are the ignorant one.
If I knew you. You probally be dead now.

[/quote]

Umm...you're the most unintelligent, uneducated, ignorant person I've seen on this thing. This is the "Lao Serious Talk" and you come in here with your accusations and threats. First of all, Khoun never said that he supported the genocide. (accusation) He just doesn't believe it exists.

Now me, I don't doubt it's happening. I don't doubt our Laotian government is corrupt and selfish. Their lives are driven by money, and I don't doubt ANY of it. I believe it's happening, and I DON'T agree with it.

But YOU, I don't agree with you! I don't doubt you guys have evidence it's going on but to make your argument stronger, you need to show that evidence in your post. Be more convincing.

And threatening to kill Khoun? Who are you? You disagree with the genocide but you'll kill him? Hyprocrite. Why can't you have a normal argument without bringing up stupid ganster murder crap? If it's what you live for then don't come to this chat.

And yeah, the government is killing your people, because you don't belong in our land. This wouldn't be a problem if you weren't in our mountains in the first place. I've met a lot of your people in my life, and half of you don't claim you or your parents are from Laos. You don't want to claim Laos, and Laos doen't want to claim you. It's their land, and they hold power over you. They'll do whatever they want, right or wrong. Our people are fighting each other because we dispise each other.

I don't agree with the genocide, but think twice before you complain. You guys are awesome at migrating to a new area when someone's government treats you bad. The American governent doesn't seem to give pity, so there's your solution right there.

It's the Lao land. Take an archaelogist there, and they'll dig up LAOTIAN history. Hmongs want the Laotian land, and the Laotians don't to give it to them. The way they handle it is by all means wrong, but are any communist governments just?

My point is, the next time you complain, think about it. You're somewhere where the owners of the land don't feel you belong. Basically...you're fishing for it.

[/quote]


By saying this aren't you ignorant and uneducated yourself. You have to remeber that the Hmong and Laos people live in peace before the war. Not every "Lao" has the same ethnic background. This is a political issue and not individuals hating each other. You can't fight hate with hate.

Do you know what the peace accord is about? Do some research people!

One of my teachers is Hmong and his father was one of the individuals that helped the U.S. during the secret war in Laos. He could go on for days dicussing the atrocities that continue to this day toward the Hmong people. He's talked with women that have been sent to the "reeducation camps" and were raped and beat; photographs displaying dead women and children have been smuggled out, even the U.S. has inquired about the missing Hmong children. I won't even comment on your last statement

do you know what it is? you tell gvp and the rlg that. is the link below not proof of violation too? losers cant be chosers. how many more of these hmongs have to die at the hands GVP and his lunatic cronies! http://www.factfinding.org that is pure bull$hit and propaganda at its lowest form. this is 2006 and people will not be fooled by the crooked rlg/gvp propaganda machine.

the tai people have been living with and around the miao people for thousands of years from china to laos and not have any problems. there is no genocide in laos but just a war with gvp and rlg loyalist rebels/terrorist that want to overthrow the lpdr. if their truly is a genocide of the hmong people by the lpdr then why are all the hmongs not being slaughtered? there are hmongs all around vieng-chan, luang-pa-bang how come not them and only the hmong that are attached to gvp proxy army hidden in the jungles of laos? dont be so stupit. wake up and smell the coffee. the hmongs in the jungles of laos are being exploited by gvp to fight a war that cannot be won, their best bet is to just join the lao country and be good lao citizens. at the end of the day hmongs die in vein and gvp pockets gets fatter. the lpdr will take out these terrorist whether gvp or the rlg(they both work together).


Questionable fundraising aims to exploit Hmongs
ST. PAUL (AP) — Want to be a general in a free Laos? How about a mayor?

Hmong immigrants are being targeted by fundraisers who promise positions in a Laos that may never exist in exchange for payments of hundreds or thousands of dollars, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported on Sunday.

Aggressive fundraising has long been a sore point for the Hmong. But there’s even more concern now because of FBI investigations of influence peddling in St. Paul City Hall and a separate look by the state attorney general at a prominent Hmong fundraising organization.

Some of the fundraising letters bear the signature of General Vang Pao, who led an army of ethnic minority Hmong that battled communist insurgents in Laos during the Vietnam War and is still revered by many Hmong. Many younger, American-born Hmong have less regard for Vang Pao and see the fundraising as excessive.

Several documents in circulation bear the letterhead of the United Lao National Liberation Front, also known as the Neo Hom, which was founded in the United States by exiled Laotian military leaders. Some appeal for money to help kinsmen who are still fighting in the jungles of Laos against that country’s communist government.

A copy of one certificate, provided to the Pioneer Press, is written in the Lao language and promises that the bearer will be governor of a Laotian province. It is dated Jan. 15, 2003, and appears to be signed by Vang Pao, referred to as “prince liberator.’’Other letters include a “National Support Volunteer Form’’ that asks for monthly payments of $100 or another amount of the donor’s choosing.

The newspaper reported that one Twin Cities man said his father obtained a title for him that supposedly endures a ranking position in a new Lao government. Another said his father-in-law bought one for himself, but was dropped after he could no longer make the monthly payments.

It’s not clear how much money the letters are generating, or whether they violate any laws. But they angered one observer.

Fundraisers in the Hmong community have been questioned before. In 1989, there were reports that many Hmong families had paid $100 down and $10 a month to the Neo Hom. Some paid $500 for certificates that would entitle them to return to a future Laos, and others paid hundreds or thousands to be mayors, governors, police chiefs, colonels and generals.


http://www.winona.edu/winonan/s2005/3-2/Hmongs.htm

Some of you Hmong people need to calm down and take a deep breath. Why are you taking out all anger towards the Lao people in this chat room? By doing that you're not going to get any support. I mean, the Lao people came here for the same purpose, you're taking your anger out on the wrong people.

we must all take a look at the BIG picture of what is going on before we come to any "conclusions". take some time to view both sides and reasons.

people calm down.

There is killing still going on but as to exactly know how bad it is... well that's hard. I'm not surprised that people are still being killed. Many Journalist have gone to find out the hmong side of the story ( the ones still in the jungle)
But hmong people in Laos are actually for the most part treated okay. I wouldnt say better... cause I think Thai treat their hmong MUCH better. China's hmong ( forgot the chinese name for them) people seems best off. (doesnt include the illegal ones from laos)
As to the tourist being killed? who knows. It could be the government setting it up or it can actually be hmong rebels. We dont know how shady Lao PDR is being... none of us do.

But to those who dont believe people are still dying...
it's 3 years old but it's still going on since this was writen.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/photoessays/laos/

It's a sad situation and hard to figure out what to do but without international pressure. well I honestly say nothing will happen.
no one knows of it. Of the hmong people in the jungles dying. So it reminds under the radiar.

i hear from people living in Laos that they are treated fine and get along great, they dont even mind if you refer to them as meo.

Yunnie:

Thailand treats its Hmongs much better than Laos treats hers? It seems to me you don't know what you are talking about. Cite me any south-east asian country that has Hmong governors and Hmong representatives in the government as many as in Laos.

The problem in Laos will not be solved until those few Hmongs in the jungles give up fighting against the government of thet country.

I concur, I think Laos treats Hmongs better than Thailand, China, or Vietnam.

i can see that you know little to nothing about the situation in laos and its best that you not speak at all. there's over 300,000 hmongs in laos, all of the hmongs are living fine in laos besides the 7000+ that are taking part in anti-government activities(armed rebellion). what government in the world will tolerate such act?? you tell me? do you expect there not to be any casualties when the rebels are being pursued?

the times magazine photo is pure propaganda, look, the men are armed with weapons?? what the fu-k is that!



finally another lao that gets it! that girl is as dumb as a clam! laos has always treated the hmong better than the other neighboring countries. they're not even given thai citizenship?? she's ignorant...

the lpdr tactic is working well and the hmong rebels have been surrendering. thats all they have to do, give up arms and join the lao society. the war has been over for over 30 years...

i heard of the genocide in laos...i dont know if its true...i just remember when laos were being granted normal trade relations "ntr" by the u.s. there was alot of disagreements by hmongs and laotian requesting the u.s. government not to grant the ntr because of the genocide.

hmongs cant blame the people of laos...blame the government, if there is a genocide there theni disagree with. hmong people are very sincere, generous and brave people, at least the ones i know and i consider them of my peoples. hell they came to u.s like my parents for a better life who am i to judge. lao and hmong can live together in harmony. i will never go back to laos until they are a democratic government. why do they have to be communist?

That $hit is just pure propaganda. Is this the thanks we get from the Hmongs after all we have done for them? We gave them a place to stay in Laos, we gave them citizenship and consider them our fellow brothers and now they want to say all that $hit. No other country in SE Asia have treated the Hmongs better than in Laos. Not in Vietnam, not in Thailand. I don't even think those places let Hmongs become citizens. I'm not saying all Hmongs, just those Hmongs who seem to hate Laotians.

seriously get a full understanding of "genocide" -it doesnt exist in Lao.

...that was 30yrs ago -lpdr won and moved on so should you(MEO)

I think you are confused with the Lao govt. The Hmong lived in peace with the Royal govt. The current one is communist. It's the govt that is doing all the killing. It's not just Hmong but also Lao that sided with the royal family.

Also, mostly likely if your're parents (I'm talking about in general) are immigrents in the US than they are or were against the communist govt. Same goes to the Hmong and Vietnamese.

I'm not for or against the Hmong in the jungle but this subject is making ignorant people hate on each other.

yeah it's true, because during the war most of ethni who live in mountain help to fight against the actual governement... and today it's the payback sad

get out of the jungle, dis-arm, join the pdr and improve the country.

If it was that easy than there wouldn't be any hmong trap in the jungles...

Doesn't seem like there's any Lao person in this chat forum that is intelligent enough to know what goes on in the world these days.

Is it just propaganda, you tell me?

I mean MEO people can be hypocrites. If you guys know that stuff like this is going on and there is some kind of"GENOCIDE" why do your people still go to visit laos. Why are you spending money in laos. Why do you vacation there? it makes no sense arent you afraid of persecution? Dont come to my peoples country then. We have other things to worry about like nationalism, reconstruction,investment,infrastructure development,health care,algricultural, everything a developing country covers. We know Laos is a third world country, yea its poor and people talk down about it but don't forget many of your parents consider themselves lao and we consider them lao too. This is not genocide. YOU GO TO HMONG VILLAGES AND SEE NO ones getting shot at. This is partial propaganda because many of these hmong people try to find an excuse to leave Laos so they can come to America and make money. Then when they make money they are gonna send money back to laos and visit laos like there was no problem.

...

I dont understand why anyone would call it payback.

these ppl are rebels who are fighting against the govenment of a country.

everything single nation on this planet has the right to protect their country from these types of ppl.

i dont think it matter if they are Hmong or any other group of ppl.

the only think that matters is that they are rebels trying to overthrow a standing government.

if these ppl were Vietnamese, Khmer, Chinse, Japanese ethnics in the jungle of Laos trying to overthrow the government, then they to would be hunted down as any government would.

The only Hmong that should be hunting down is General Vang Pao himself, he is behind all this problems. Anyone who is against the government of Lao should be run down like a road kills, it doesn't matter what is your ethnic back grounds. Lao government does not single out ethnic of Hmong alone, look back in the mid 70s most of the people that got killed were the Lao ethnic.

"SOMETIME ITS OK TO KILL 10% JUST TO PROVE THE POINTS TO THE OTHER 90%."

Meo people still visit their relatives in Laos because there's no shooting in the cities. Genocide only occurs in the restricted area where Lao authorities does not allow visitors to venture. Please stop pretending like you don't know a thing.

For using the term meo, I see that you are like the old Khong Lao in the past. It would be an honor to do battle against you if there's ever a war, Lao vs Meo in the future...

You people need to know your own histories. Do you people even know the reason why you are here in the states in the first place?

A country has a right to safeguard it's people and security but to target a group of people whom is in no means a threat to the government nor has anything to do with the past is just wrong. Those people trap in the zone has being running ever since the collapse of the country. It was deliberate and there's no question about it...

Xiengpeuk,

Because most of Lao people sided with the Viet Minh. And you must be kidding about that right? I wonder why didn't Lao rang in the Secret War history? Know your own history buddy.

im a little confused, u just mocked lao ppl for calling hmong ppl Meo, yet yajthaugluv you yourself has called them Meo, 1,2,3,4 times?

again, Genocide is terminating everyone on a certain ethnic groups, the majority of hmong ppl live in the country side, and the overwhelming majority live in peace, we might be talking about 2% of hmong ppl who are still taking up arms against the LPDR. the percentage is just a guess, so the 2% justifies calling this conflict a Genocide?

so how is it Genocide? may i ask, im just curious, must be just a definition thing,

but i dont call ppl with AK-47's in the jungle not a threat to the safety of the ppl roaming the roads that go in and around the mountians, where there have been cases of ambushes of busese and tourist from these rebels,

dont get me wrong, i hope that everyone can just live in peace,

I accept that derogative term as this person does not see or recognize an ethnic that is equal to being man. I refer to my own people as that to serve as a reminder that some Lao people still harbor their hatred for the hmong people as they are the same as us whom fled the same country for the same reason. People that has no respect and recognition for other people does not deserve civility and respect.

It's more of a genocide definition thing as the methods employed to wipe out the people in the zone area are equal and similar to the Auschwitz of WWII. The encirclement, the concentration, the use of chemical weapons and the use of starvation tactics are all consider being equal to genocide. Killing groups of people on a large scale is consider as such including the methods being used.

Ak-47s in the jungle? Is it not a necessity knowing you're being targeted for extermination? Put yourself in their shoes and you will know. If you push they push too, you starve them, they find a way to feed themselves in desperation which explains the ambushes out in the roads. See if these people raid Lao towns and try to take over than yes, they do deserve to be wipe out. But they are a defenceless people who has being on the run because of the policies created during the two parties during the war. The plan was to exact retribution... It's what the communist do. This policy is what force these people in this situation. These people want nothing to do with the Lao government, they just want to be left alone. They are sick and tired of always been on the run. If the Lao government would make some effort in restoring peace and recognize these people that they're not the rebels in the past whom resisted against their revolution. These people will be more than willing to come out and integrate. But that's not the case... Many have surrender only to find their love ones torture and being executed for roles they have no connection with. Not only that but no child was spared as you can see footages of the children out foraging for food... Killed in the most inhumane ways. If peace is what Laos wants, this is not the peace they hope for. They only poison our hearts and minds so we can exact the same barbarism against them, might even fulfill their status quo labeling those people as terrorist when they are not... Using those people as a scapegoat and a cover up. This tactic is well known in the world, it's a tactic to confuse and misled the public, like the Bush Administration linking Iraq to Al Quaida as an excuse to go to war. What if we the hmong people here in the US decides to take matters in their own hands and start bombing their cities, would that be a good thing? If a government doesn't listen, there's always going to be someone who's willing to send them a clear message. After all, terrorism is what they want.

ive talked to some laotians from laos and they have no idea a genocide is going on.



i was also unaware that meo was derogatory, like khmer see the word khamen. i will stop my family and other lao people from using meo if it will help you guys feel better.

Well, what does meo mean in Lao? It is derogatory because Lao people think that hmong people are like cats, meoing all the time...

it is derogatory because meo in a rising tone also mean cat, they dont want to be associated with animals.

I'm Kone Lao u Kone Meo, I dont think youre a f!ckn cat...thats what we call your people it has been that way for a long long time.
and why the certain change of identity?

fu-k commies!

commie better than being f!ck in the @ss but siam everyday man...pai kud d d berng hum.

Change of identity? Perhaps, the word hmong is so hard for your people to pronounce over the many generations that all you can say is meo.

when I first saw "Hmong" I thought it was pronounced Huuh-mong. but its true that Meo is a very old word in Lao/Thai language we use for some Lao Soong. They still use it in Laos. but my parents tell me not to use meo because some hmong in the states would find it offensive. me and my parents just pronounce Hmong as Moeng.

Huh? The word "Meo" is the Lao pronunciation of the Chinese word "Miao". Lao picked it up from the Chinese. The Chinese offically reconizes a group of people known as "Miao". When the Hmongs migrated into Laos around the 18th or 19th century, they were known as "Miao/Meo". And the name stuck ever since.

Miao is a word used by the ignorant who can't pronounce Hmong correctly. So if your ignorant then keep calling us Miao.

Word.

Lao folks been calling the Hmong people Meo for centuries. I understand the Hmongs are offended by it. Lao folks never meant to offend the Hmongs. The Chinese called you guys that, so we just went along with the Chinese.

[quote name='thepimpraja' date='Jun 24 2007, 03:14 AM' post='3022069']
Lao folks been calling the Hmong people Meo for centuries. I understand the Hmongs are offended by it. Lao folks never meant to offend the Hmongs. The Chinese called you guys that,so we just went along with the chinese.


I still can't find why is it so offended ? obviously adopted as Lao word meaning Hmong , no more no less. I'm from the south of Laos and have never seen Hmong in person only read and see pictures at school until arrived at the camp in Thailand. I admit you guys are different but I found somewhat interesting especially the pipe bong. Asides the differences, I always acknowledge that the citizens of Laos are including many ethnicities. I've been told not to called "meo" before even meeting one and I sincerely respected. While in school back in Wa st. I had opportunity to hang out with some Hmongs and my long curiosity got chance... I tried the mighty pipe! almost killed me...
My body family's lived in V.T. for a long time, even he can't understand why "meo" is offended and he refer himself as meo to demand attentions while playing balls. It's sadden me to read some negative comments from Hmong person in respond to the arrested of the general. I do respect individual opinion regards the event but express hatred toward Lao and denial Laos as motherland is unexceptable.

[quote name='thepimpraja' date='Jun 24 2007, 03:14 AM' post='3022069']
Lao folks been calling the Hmong people Meo for centuries. I understand the Hmongs are offended by it. Lao folks never meant to offend the Hmongs. The Chinese called you guys that,so we just went along with the chinese.


I still can't find why is it so offended ? obviously adopted as Lao word meaning Hmong , no more no less. I'm from the south of Laos and have never seen Hmong in person only read and see pictures at school until arrived at the camp in Thailand. I admit you guys are different but I found somewhat interesting especially the pipe bong. Asides the differences, I always acknowledge that the citizens of Laos are including many ethnicities. I've been told not to called "meo" before even meeting one and I sincerely respected. While in school back in Wa st. I had opportunity to hang out with some Hmongs and my long curiosity got chance... I tried the mighty pipe! almost killed me...
My body family's lived in V.T. for a long time, even he can't understand why "meo" is offended and he refer himself as meo to demand attentions while playing balls. It's sadden me to read some negative comments from Hmong person in respond to the arrested of the general. I do respect individual opinion regards the event but express hatred toward Lao and denial Laos as motherland is unexceptable.