I think many people have gone too far in defacing Ho Chi Minh, one of Vietnam's heroes. One member has a picture of him and below it says "I'll piss on your grave."

Doesn't that a little too ignorant in defacing Vietnam's liberator? What do you know about him that you hate so much? Did he kill your family? Do you know him as much as he knows himself? Then the hell did you do that?

He did one thing wrong, and that was bringing communism into Vietnam, but that was the only choice he had.

I have no intention of bringing this into an arguement and debate whether of not he was a good man or not. He could have had a thousand wives and ten thousand sons, but that doesn't matter, it was his personal life. What matters here is that he was the one that liberated Vietnam.

And no, I am not pro-communist if you haven't guessed so. I am just sick and tired of people degrading him when there are people like Richard Nixon, Lt. Carrey (the bastard who was responsible for the massacre of My Lai, Quang Nam), and many others that could be said the same way to Vietnamese.

Ho Chi Minh is even listed as one of the "good" guys in Good vs. Evil men of history. He is even praised by the Americans. He even spoke many languages, French, Russian, English, Chinese, and Vietnamese, and probably other languages.

I do believe that he was responsible for bringing communism into Vietnam, and he might have done something wrong to our country (which is still in doubt and no proofs). However, he did liberate Vietnam through many sources, he pleaded the Americans, the Americans denied him. He was desperate to get rid of the French ASAP, and the only way to do that was through Russia and China where he got his resources from.

In no circumstances did he want any foreigners to rule Vietnam! And in no reasons did he ever bring in foreign troops to fight his own country men. No offense to S. Vietnam loyalists, but that S. Vietnam was in no shape or form a government at all, it was a piece of $hit, with corruption and dictatorship much like N. Vietnam.

We need to liberate those idiots' minds by sending them to a reeducation camp. :genius:

People hate Ho Chi Minh, because he's a hypocrit or at least what the commies made him out to be is totally false from who he really was. He's also had a pretty damn big ego for such a puny man. He faked another name to interview himself in a book and praising himself. I'm sick of seeing all the propagandas about him. He's no hero, if you think saying he wanted to liberate Vietnam from the French, then after WWII invite the French back in is an act of heroism? Or selling out Phan Boi Chau made him a hero? Working for the French himself and led his Vietminhs to murder educated Vietnamese that also work for the French. Misled the uneducated, naive farm peasants in the country to believe follow him, then repeatedly dissappointed them one time after another. Let himself be used as a pawn in a war of the superpowers and made our country into their battlefield and our people be the casualties. He also suck at being a communist leader because he didn't lay any foundation for future commie to follow, all he knows was war war and war.

First: What the heck are you talking about? I've never heard any of those before.

Second: He DID NOT invite the French to come back after World War 2 (I've never heard of this before in my life), and I don't know where you learned this history from and I would like to know where you got this from.

HCM did not invite the French after WW2, he French came back to reclaim their colony. The French didn't come back because they never left! The Japanese invaded Vietnam with ease because the French did not have a huge army there to fight, so they gave up the territory to the Japanese. The Japanese agreed and let the French manistate while the Japanese rule the French in Vietnam.

After the great war, which the French lost and they needed more resources to increase their economy, so they told the Americans "I need to take back my Indochina," the Americans said "Okay." And so the French sent an army to Vietnam and reclaim their old colony.

Meanwhile, HCM defeated the Japanese and declared independence. The French came back and said "I want my colony back," HCM said "fu-k you!" So the battle of Dien Bien Phu started. The French suffered there heavily and even requested the Americans to nuke Vietnam. Thank God president Eisenhower was bright enough not to listen to his secretary of defense the the French loosers.

And you know the rest.

Seriously, only ignorant fools wound try to start $hit and degrade uncle Ho Chi Minh. These Fools learn a bit of real history and not talk out of there asses.

Agreed. Ho Chi Minh is one of modern Vietnam's heroes. We should respect him.

agree.. 101%

HCM did actually invite the French back into Vietnam, but it was what he thought was best for Vietnam at the time.

After WW2 Vietnam was split into 2.
North was occupied by ROC forces.
South was occupied by the British.
The British wanted to give the south back to french so the french will back them internationally as they took their own colonies(burma..) back.
HCM wanted to get the Chinese out of the north so he agreed to get the french back.
You don't want Chiang Kai shek to govern North Vietnam do you?

BTW
1 no body defeated the Japanese in Vietnam they surrendered after atom bombs attacks on Japan.
2 The Americans did not want the French to have its colonies back, USA was advocate of the free world no?
3 America wanted the French to stop communism and when the french failed they steped in and hence Vietnam war.

They went a little far by mummified his body liek Mao, makes him like a fu-king god or at least it appears to be, putting his pictures everywhere even in ancient building etc. a little bit to far, it's disgusting. It's funny how "educated communist officials" talk in a way when they said "Loi bac ho dai/ loi bac ho noi.."

LOlz you obviously believe that was what they are after? Spare me...

DELETE

Derek you insensitive little Viet Gian. I swear, if i ever know where you live your @$$ is mine.

So do you believe that America went to colonize Vietnam or to stop communist forces from conquering the south?

i believe they come for there own selfish desire.

Wow, finally someone who knows hes Viet history.... and it turns out to be a Chineses.. I commend you Mingloyalist

BTW True though , had the Chinese stayed they would still be here today and N . Viet most likey will never regain independence ....

No personal attacks.

Cuong, how can he be a Viet Gian when he claims not to be Viet... just ignore this loser....

^ yeah we shound not even be talking to people like him.

BOOO HOOOO! Go worship uncle hoe some more boy.

It's ho Chi minh

What the hell?

^ dude...wtf stop making fake quotes of me.

You filthy liar. you wrote it yourself, fool! Hey, what can we expect from uncle ho supporters?

blah blah, i never said such things. Seriously stop making up fake quotes.




^^ this w as the quote

you know you did. haha

fu-king commies, go back to vietnam and see what your hero uncle hoe did to the country.
i saw what you wrote cuong you POS

and what did i wrote?

BTW

1) First post for a racist insult like that is BAN FOR LIFE
2) That SN is not aloud here on AF = BAN FOR LIFE a second time.

edit: 3) Derek = FukCommies Double Account = BAN FOR LIFE

huh, commies are so dumb

Your grammar sucks real bad, "and what did i wrote?" should be write.

Racist? Do you even know what that means?
My SN is fine, mr. Commy

Wrote = pass tense of write. Stop embarissing yourself.

LOL

Warning for Derek and Ban for FukCommies. 7 days

Before Anyone else start talking crap about uncle Ho Chi Minh, and start making up bull$hit...plz i have found this little something for you to read and learn first.. Enjoy...

Ho Chi Minh
http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/p.../hochiminh.html

Ho Zhi Ming is a nice name... sounds great..

How could you call a Vietnamese mass murderer a heroe? Not me.


VietNam’s Independence and Ho Chi Minh

The Vietnamese communist has always claimed that Ho Chi Minh was the hero who gained independence for Vietnam from France. Nevertheless, this claim is questionable.

In order to search for the truth, it could be necessary to consider these three important facts:

ONE: World War II had led to the collapse of colonialism.

In Europe, the Nazis invaded most Western European colonial countries - The Netherlands, Belgium, France - and threatened the Great Britain shore.

In Asia, Japanese quickly conquered the Indochinese Peninsula (Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos), invaded Malaysia, Burma, The Philippines, Indonesia, and crushed the Western colonial forces as well.

At the end of World War II, The United States of America defeated Japan and liberated Korea.

TWO: People from these colonies stood up for their independence.

The British had foreseen this movement and restored independence to its colonies. One of them was India even though India had no resistance by force but non-violent struggle.

In Vietnam, the glorious though unsuccessful 1930 Yen-Bai uprising led by the VNQDD and later the execution of the Party leader Nguyen Thai Hoc along with twelve other party members by the French colonists, elevated the aspiration for independence of the Vietnamese people to the highest point as well as the undying animosity never seen previously.

Since this uprising, the end of the French colonialist regime in Vietnam came closer. Few French senior officials such as Generals Le Clerc and De Gaulle seemed to have foreseen this fact.

THREE: The world began to enter the Cold War between the two blocs led by the Soviet Union and the USA. Both sides advocated liberation of colonies to win them over.

The consequence of the facts mentioned above led to the independence of countries in Asia and then Africa. History had shown that in order for a country to gain independence from a foreign country, usually there were war, bloodshed. However, countries like India, Indonesia, the Philippines, Malaysia, etc. easily restored their independence without any major war.

On March 9, 1945; Japanese forces overthrew the French in the Indochinese Peninsula and restored independence to Vietnam. The Japanese government as well as King Bao-Dai declared the independent status of Vietnam to the world. Premier Tran Trong Kim formed the first Vietnamese government. However, this period was very short because the Japanese surrendered to the Allies a few months later on August 13, 1945.

Before Japan surrendered to the USA, Ho Chi Minh worked with OSS (Office of Strategic Services), a US intelligence agency. He built up Viet-Minh forces. After Japan surrendered, Japanese forces were still in control of Indochina. They could have crushed Viet Minh forces easily had Bao Dai and Tran Trong Kim requested them to do so. However, King Bao-Dai agreed to transfer his power to Viet Minh because he thought that Ho Chi Minh was working with the USA, and could guarantee independence for Vietnam. On August 19, 1945, at a spontaneous non-communist meeting in Hanoi, Ho and his men stole the leading role to seize power and on September 2, he delivered his Declaration of Independence.

The irony of this declaration was its repeat of what King Bao-Dai had declared earlier. In the declaration , Ho Chi Minh plagiarized a famous statement from the Declaration of Independence of the USA: "All men are created equal." Under his regime's title "Democratic Republic of Vietnam" is the motto - still remaining today - "Independence - Freedom - Happiness," which was again plagiarized from the Sun Yatsen's "Three-People Doctrine."

People at that time were happy to join meetings after meetings, to march joyfully with drums beating and martial music. It was natural because after 80 years under the French domination, they were eager to enjoy the nation's independence and expected a happy bright future. Many did not realize that later they would be living under a dictatorial regime lasting for more than half a century until now.

In the late 1700's while fighting the Tay Son, Nguyen Anh (King Gia Long) sought for military help from France through a French bishop. Thus King Gia Long has been blamed for bringing enemy home, leading to the French invasion. Ho Chi Minh after in power, signed the March 6, 1946 agreement to allow the French forces coming back to Vietnam.

Ho Chi Minh and his men often said that being ruled by the French is better than by the Chinese. This is more like a fool because later the Chinese army units in Vietnam had to withdraw to reinforce their troops in Manchuria against the Chinese Red Army. Chiang Kai Shek at the Yalta Convention refused to control Vietnam. "They (the Vietnamese) are not Chinese, they always rebel against China."

To show his welcome to the arrival of French Special Envoy Sainteny and French military units coming under the March 6 Agreement, Ho Chi Minh instructed people to display flags. Ho showed to the French that people appreciated their coming back..

Richard Nixon, in No More Vietnam, wrote: "While nationalist groups refused to cooperate with the French, the communist Viet Minh chose to collaborate with the French. Ho signed the so-called March 6 agreement that brought the French army back into Northern Vietnam. His greetings were effused 'I love France and French solders. You are welcome. You are heroes.' Some say Ho compromised with the French to force the Nationalist Chinese to withdraw. But one week earlier, China had pledged to remove its army in a separate agreement with France. As to the real motivation of the communists, Ho's right-hand man, Le Duan, later said it was to 'wipe out the reactionaries.' For the Viet Minh, this included all nationalists."

Ho and the French together massacred hundreds of leaders and thousands of rank-and-file members of various nationalist groups. The French gave the Viet Minh military equipment, troops and even artillery support to carry this out. In July 1946, Ho's forces stormed the headquarters of all the remaining nationalist groups while French armored personnel carriers cordoned off surrounding areas. Most of the few remaining opposition leaders were arrested and later killed. (No More Vietnam, Richard Nixon, page 34, 35)

On December 19, 1946, the War of Resistance against the French forces burst out. The French seized control of several cities. Ho Chi Minh and the resistance forces had to withdraw from those key cities and conducted the guerrilla warfare against the French Expeditionary Army.

If Mao Tse Tung had not taken over China in 1949, Ho Chi Minh would have been responsible for turning Vietnam over to France. Since 1949, communist China armed and trained Viet Minh. This led to the Viet Minh victory at the China-Vietnam Border Battle. Later, it was the Chinese artillery that helped Viet Minh to defeat the French at Dien Bien Phu.

Moreover, it should be noted that a large number of non-communist young men and intellects contributed an important part in the victory over the French. Many were eliminated in the bloody Land Reform in 1953-1956 only because they were sons of the so-called "wicked landlords."

The fact that Ho Chi Minh ruled North Vietnam as well as Bao Dai and Ngo Dinh Diem controlled South Vietnam did not mean that these rulers contributed much to the independence of Vietnam. Among them, Ho Chi Minh was even a betrayal who invited and worked with the enemy to kill his opponents.

Another stupid propaganda. In 1954 the American spent millions of dollars to spread the propaganda that if any Vietnamese still stay in the North, the Viet Minh will eventually slaughter all of them that's why there was an exodus of North Vietnamese to souther Vietnam in that 1954 year.

people only see what they want to see.. It's so obvious how rig this article it.

You are speaking out of you butt cheeks, Had Ho Chi Minh not taken out the french.. So called cochin china Southern VN would be a french colony and we'd still be slaves under the French men ....

* But not you of course cause you're a American FB Vietnamese!

Agree! not to mention being in salve by the US as well.

Certain Vietnamese still want to be a French or American servants. They think that being a white-man servant is worth more than being a Vietnamese.

Thank God they are only a tiny fraction of our population. Otherwise, we would not stand up and drive those chinese, Mongols, French, and American out of Vietnam.

No, you don't understand. If Ho Chi Minh had patience and talked to all parties back then, millions of Vietnamese had not been killed.

Why do you bashed US for war with Iraq? You don't like war, do you? I don't like war either because I've read what HCM did.

HCM started land reformed that killed thousands in the North. His troops went South and killed millions down South. After the war, hundred of thousands Vietnamese died at sea. They died at re-education camps. They died in Central Highland "doi moi". Vietnamese died everywhere because of his ambition to turn Vietnam under communist rule.

"Nhat tuong cong thanh van cot kho"
Have you ever heard that saying? He's very successful of killing Viet.

That's only your opinion. I cound easily make up some bull$hit fact that if he let it live any longer then will murder him and there will be on Vietnam today.


If the US did not Butt there @$$ in during Vietnam war there woundn't be so much trouble and so much killing and there wound be not be so much suffering.




Prove it!

I'll let Viet Cong do the BS. They are better than me.

About HCM, maybe I'll let some of you die from ignorant. Needless to say, it had been proven. Only people like you don't know.

It's great to you that you jump in the bandwagon and being pro-communists. To me I don't think you guys would last 1 week in VN. Don't believe me, go back to Vietnam.

Do you know what happen to the founder of Vietnam Liberation Front or Mat Tran Giai Phong Mien Nam? He's a commie until they kicked him out of VN. Now he's a nationalist. Darn!!!


Betrayed: Truong Nhu Tang

By Chris Peterson

Amid the torrent of publicity surrounding the 10th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War, a former Vietnamese revolutionary leader sits in a small, simply furnished Paris apartment and remembers with bitterness.

Truong Nhu Tang stands out from other refugees who fled their homeland after the fall of Saigon and the communist takeover of South Vietnam in April 1975.

He was a founder of the South Vietnamese National Liberation Front (NLF), known to the Americans as the Viet Cong, and a former minister in the Provisional Revolutionary Government (PRG) which took power after the ỤS.-backed regime fell. It held power until North and South Vietnam were reunified in 1976.

In 1979, disillusioned with events, Tang fled by boat, the only senior revolutionary to do sọ In a rare interview, he discussed his life and the reasons behind his decision to fleẹ

A small, gentle, grey-haired man in his 60s, he told Reuters: "Today, 10 years after we won, I am personally so, so disappointed. I feel so sorry for my people, for my country, in as much as our revolution has been betrayed, and we have been cheated of our liberation."

A book by Tang on his experiences came out in April in the United States and is due to appear in Europe later this year.

Accusing the northern-dominated leadership of being idealogues who want to model the country on the Soviet Union, he said: "Those who act against the interests of the people will be overthrown by the peoplẹ They will be judged by historỵ"

Tang, who as minister of justice in the PRG assumed the same job when Saigon fell, spoke of his bitterness at learning that after years of fighting alongside North Vietnamese army regulars, he and his fellow NLF guerrillas were to be edged out in the subsequent struggle for power.

On May 15, 1975, two weeks after the fall of Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City), Tang and his PRG colleagues were flown south from Hanoi to attend the victory paradẹ

After describing how the serried ranks of North Vietnamese Army regulars marched past them on the reviewing podium under the red flag with the single yellow star of North Vietnam, Tang then told of the small NLF contingent's arrival.

"They came marching down the street, looking unkempt and ragtag after the display that had preceded them. They were marching under the North Vietnamese flag and not our own PRG flag."

Tang said he turned in horror to North Vietnamese Gen. Van Tien Dung, who had masterminded the final thrust on Saigon.

"'Where are our divisions One, Three, Five, Seven and Ninẻ,' I asked him. He smiled and told me the army had already been unified.

"I told him we had not been consulted or informed. He said nothing, but his ironic smile was the first indication I had of what was to come," Tang said.

Tang finally decided to flee in 1979, leaving by boat and ending up in Paris, where he had studied after World War II and met Ho Chi Minh, the revolutionary who became North Vietnam's leader -- a meeting he said was a turning point in his lifẹ

Tang, who stoutly maintains he was a nationalist, a revolutionary, but never a communist, said of Ho Chi Minh: "He always maintained that the south was forever in his heart and that the south was always part of the motherland. He was a political leader who was very human.

"He always knew how to create an intimate family climate with his compatriots."

Ađed Tang: "He is often described as firstly a revolutionary, secondly a patriot and thirdly a communist.

"But there was also Ho Chi Minh the moralist."

Tang said he and his non-communist colleagues in the NLF wanted to establish a form of federation in Vietnam, consisting of North and South Vietnam and two autonomous areas.

"Most of my compatriots' ideas conformed to the realities in Vietnam. But those ideologues from the north wanted to centralize all power with their dogmas," he said.

Tang still maintains that the NLF and the PRG were misunderstood, mainly by the Americans.

"We were not all communists. We were revolutionaries certainly, who wanted the foreign troops out. We were not created by the Hanoi government. But the Americans used the all-embracing perjorative title Viet Cong, which in our language means communist Vietnamesẹ We weren't."

His five brothers did not join him in the movement, but one is in a reeducation camp. The rest have left Vietnam.

"For me, the last straw was the reeducation camps. We had agreed with our northern brothers on a policy of reconciliation . . . My conscience is clear. I gave up everything that could have given me a happy life, I sacrificed it for my people and my countrỵ

"(Vietnamese leaders) Le Duc Tho, Le Duan, they want to copy the Soviet model. In Vietnamese we say they are like fish that once swam in the water. The water is the peoplẹ Now the fish is on dry land and the water passes it bỵ"

It was't propaganda if your family actually witnessed it. You read too many commie literature to know the truth.

If you have relatives in North Vietnam ask about the village trials they had where they executed you for having a little money.



Dude, arguing with commies is worthless. If they been taught in Vietnamese school they had a heavy dose of propaganda. I went through the schools myself and believed many the stuff they're believing now about HCM. Some of them, like Byron have relatives back in Vietnam who are in the Party and are benefiting directly from the system. His father was also a former Viet Cong. They'll learn the truth soon enough if they ever want to look at things objectively.

Look at some of them are arguing don't look at his Ho's personal life because it's not relevance. His personal life is a reflection of his political life. In both he is the scoundrel. The commies won the war so they get to rewrite the history books for young Vietnamese School Children. Sickening, but hopefully the truth will someday come out.

It's funny how Viet-ams here accuse me of using "communist" articles or "hippy" ones when I back up my facts with websites like PBS or History Channel.

But when they argue about their side they use articles from www.fva.org which is obvously a Viet-Am propaganda site, yet they accuse me of using communist propaganda when all my articles come from American corporations. lol

For some reason www.fva.org and other Viet-Am propaganda websites are true, while my so called "communist" ones are false. We all know people behind websites like www.fva.org have an agenda and want to make a power grab in Vietnam and will make up any story to try to make a power grab.

Well b!tch, we are now Chinese dogs, and one of the poorest country in Asia.

As Byron put it

"Russia takes land from China
China takes land from Vietnam
Therefore Vietnam takes land from Cambodia and Laos".

As if Vietminh didn't spread propaganda about Vietnamese oppression in the south. Northern Vietnamese were surprised how advanced Saigon was.

Granted that you get your facts from some American source, when you are searching for your facts you do it in a very selective matter. Even when that is the case, the conclusion you draw from some of these articles goes beyond what they actually say for example like your claim that Ho is some unselfish, caring old man. Unselfish, caring old man don't organize war and persecutions of his people. It's called distortion and I hope people read the article in context before they reach conclusions.



If you put that spin on it, it would make him look like a hero. Now consider that nationalist forces also fought the French for independence. Ho Viet Minh wiped them out afterwards; that makes him treacherous. Also consider that Ho after breaking one chain placed another chain over the Vietnamese people, the irons of communism. That's his crime. If he was a true "hero" he would have said no to colonialism and no to communism.

Ho Chi Minh is a very controversial figure. Unlike our other national heroes or villains who were defined as black and white, Ho Chi Minh is rather a shade of grey.

Yes he did invite the French back to Vietnam, see it whatever you like but I would rather live under the French than the Chinese. At least the French gave Vietnam many things, unlike the Chinese who would take, take and take.

Also, he should be credited for unifying the country. Had there been no US puppet Diem, it would have been a peaceful unification of the Mother Land. And had there been US support to oust the French afterward, there would have been no Communism in Vietnam in the first place, let alone Diem.

The story about Ho Chi Minh betraying national Hero Phan Boi Chau I do not know much about, can someone clarify this issue?

People assume to soon.Do your math before settling of to it.Ho Chi Minh indeed introduces Communist mainstream into Vietname.One of the reason why is that the French who already settling their colonization in our country's.For that we Vietnamese put up a 100 year long resistances.Mobilizing our stragetic into position as we prepare to head on with the French.Ho Chi Minh was responsible for us Vietnamese to be free from the French tyrany.Second he linked up with Soviet Union to esblaished a joint effort because of our separation during the incidents.There communist offerd us Vietnamese a sense of liberation.According to Ho Chi Minh ideas for communist is that after North Vietname defeat the American.Is that all civillian of Vietname is granted a large amount of money to build and recontruct our the newly unite Vietname.Due to corruption in the communist principle.Therefore our country come to what it is today.

dude at lease provide a links or some evidents so we can judge if the source is reasonsbl a believable, but even with out evidents i can see so many bull$hit stuff in your article.