I’m interested to know the differences between North, Central and South Vietnamese. If there’s something you know, let me know!!!

I remember way back in Vietnam when I was watching TV, these are how we adressing family members (please tell me if these are outdated..)
North: Bố, Thầy, Mẹ
Central: Ba, Má
South (probably from Miền Tây..): Tía, U
N: Cậu, cô
S: Con

When you meet someone you don’t know, and if that’s an older man, northerners refer them as chú, and southerners, cậu. I’m thinking southerners love their moms more xP.

Accents:
North: Ối dzời ơi
Central..
Anyway, we already know about this part xP

I don’t know, I’m really lazy when it comes to pronouncing Vietnamese.. lol.. when I talk to my families, I usally say the shorter forms.. đây nè = i nò or nè or nò, phải không = phọng, vậy = dị, I can only think of these for now. Are there any words you sound really different from writing, and shortened too? I'm curious xD

I call my parents Ba and Mẹ.

typical centraler

Which region call dad as "cha" ?


Quớ trời đất ơi ! cớ chi rứa !

me too

I call mine ông Ba and bà Má :P

Cha usually go with mẹ, so I guess it's northern?
Cha is what used in literature.


Which do you use rẽ, cua or quẹo? for turn (left/right)?

i use ba ma. i think chu is for like on ur dads side and cau on ur moms side, uncle i mean, and for aunt, its about the same except o(all) and nhi(yi). If its someone older that u dont know then u say chao bac(BAC).

EDIT: i use queo... for turn, queo trai , or queo phai lol.
which do you use?
North:dza vang... or vang
Central:ya phai.... or phai
South: ya phai... or phai

On a good day, I use "quẹo"
as in: "quẹo trái đi ông anh"

On a bad day, it's "cua"
as in: "con bà mi, cua qua bên phải cho tao! cà chớn!"

rẽ ? hmmm...
as in:

me: "chú làm ơn quẹo qua bên đó dùng đi chú!?"
taxi driver: hả ?
me: "chú làm ơn quẹo phải!?"
taxi driver: Hả ?
me: "làm ơn cua qua bên đó dùng đi !?"
taxi driver: HẢ ?
me: "RẼ qua bên đó!!?"
taxi driver: OK!

vậy ông taxi driver này là người nào rứa ta ?

i use bo me. hehe but if someone ask for ba ma, then ill just reply with ba ma. but deep down inside im heheh jk .

I usually say "trời wơi"

I call my parents Ba, Má

bác is your dad's older brother and chú is your dad's younger brother, cậu is your mom's brothers.. what do you mean o and nhi?

I normally say quẹo phải, cua trái.


không phải nam cũng không phải miền trung :P
I heard that cua is a French influenced word?


lol


omg! You are from Bình Định, my mom said that too, it's not really "ơi" it's more like trầu wâu.. ?

I wonder if Binh Dinh girls can actually kick butts and know martial arts...

Oooops, July_Rain is here, lthv22, you want to try it out? LOL.

hehehe Dai_Viet, I am not a fighter, I am a lover
Actually my martial art style is the art of fighting without fighting.
I will sit there doing nothing so you'll be bored to death! .....muahaahaha!!!

Okie, just for fun, let us play this e-fighting or e-martial art.

lthv22: ra quyền cước sàng tới định thủ ở hạ quan!
định thủ: lui ra mấy bước để tránh khỏi cú đá độc đáo song long ảo ảnh cước!
lthv22: bậc ngược lại, trống ra cú cùi chỏ lên càm định thủ
định thủ: ngã bậc ra! *trợi mắt*
lthv22: sau đó phát tiếm thêm mấy cú liên hoàng cước rồi theo tiếp song long phi hổ cước (hình như là dạy đó)
định thủ: ngã bậc xuống đất một cái *Bam*
lthv22: nấm đầu định thủ, rồi hỏi, "mầy là ai !?"
định thủ: trong lúc hồi hợp rồi nói, "Dai_Viet đây chứ ai!"
lthv22: *lấy kiếng đen xuống* nói: "à, thì ra là ông bạn hả ?, mất dịch, không nói sớm cho tao hay! tao nguy hiễm lắm mày ơi!"


J/K dude !!!

south : du. ma' may
north : dit me may

It's not good of u to post it.

ba me for me and my dad is a centraler

but i know southerners who use cha for father. my father told me cha me is the most correct term.

i call me pops bobo!! hey bobo!!! and momma is memurs, me murs!!!

Good topic, Hy.

I think for the South, only the countryside people say "Tía" and "U" (but I never personally heard "U" before). I think most of the Southerners refer to their parents as "Ba Mẹ"; or "Ba Má"; and some refer to their father as "Cha". I am from the South, and I refer to my parents as "Ba Mẹ"; but both of my parents called their parents "Ba Má", which may be more traditional, and used more by people in the countryside. My mother says the titles usually depend on our parents and how they taught us to address them since we were born.

hmm, That's interesting, Hy- do you actually say "phọng" instead of "phải không", and "i nò" for "đây nè"? I've never heard of those shortcuts being used in speech before. But I do usually say "hông" instead of không.

Aside from titles for addressing our parents, I believe there are also differences in how people address their spouses among the 3 regions. But please help me out on this, cause I'm not quite sure.

In the..

North: Mẹ/ Bố nó (as in my child's mom or dad)
Central: O for wife, not sure about husband
South: -Bậu, I think is wife.. what's husband?
-Mình, is used for wife and husband

Nowadays, I think most people say Anh/ Em.

^ I'm sure there are more, but I forgot them now.

Also, in the Trung (esp. Hue) dialect, I heard that "Me" (no accent mark- instead of "Mẹ"), is used for mother; and "O" is used for cô (aunt).

-July Rain- Ah, that's real interesting- I didn't know that in the Bình Ðịnh dialect, you say "trời wơi" for "trời ơi"- it sounds cute actually.

It seems that no one could truly claim to know about the spectaculars of Vietnam without having heard of the famous Bình Ðịnh Martial Arts. It has been highly acclaimed among the world of martial arts; and was practiced by the Trung sisters and many of the Vietnam warriors during foreign defense in Vietnam history. Binh Dinh is an awesome place- there is a saying in Vietnam that "the Binh Dinh girls fight with style". And I think it's true- when my dad was fighting in the VN war, he spent a great deal of time in the Binh Dinh frontier. Some of the things he noted about the place was that almost every girl there had some skill in martial arts, which was impressive.


I think all the accents are pleasant and cute in their own ways. Diversity is nice and having a country with diversity is something that makes its culture even more interesting. I think it wouldn't be the same if all of us spoke with the same accent; there wouldn't be the diversity of beautiful songs, music, cultural practices, and food, from all three regions. You can name more. I find the folksongs of each region to be at the heart and soul of Vietnam; without them, Vietnam would not be complete in Her cultures. Who could love Vietnam without also loving the folksongs, like Qua Cầu Gió Bay, or Em Ði Chùa Hương, of the North; Thương Về Miền Trung, or Mưa Trên Phố Huế, of the Central; and Còn Thương Rau Ðắng Mọc Sau Hè, or Em Ði Trên Cỏ Non, folksongs of the South, to name a few. These are songs particularly about our birthplace, and the home which we have grown to love, but together, they make the spirit and culture of Vietnam whole. We cannot sing about our hometown while separating it from Vietnam- they are one.

I think, perhaps, naturally we are inclined to favor what is most familiar to us- and usually that is our place of origin, where our parents are from, and what we have been brought up with. Therefore, it is natural that we may feel closer to our own region, and perhaps prefer our own accent, songs, and customs over others. However, I don't believe that this means we cannot also appreciate the diversity found in other regions of Vietnam. There certainly is beauty in every culture; and if within the culture lies an intricate mixture of subcultures, then there are still more wonders, more things for us to learn.

I agree that in each region, there are certain dialects that are more pleasing to the ears, while some are less pleasing. However, this is really a matter of personal opinion. To me, I can only say that they are each pleasant in their own ways.

I'm from the south and I refer to my parents as "cha" and "me".

I am waiting!
Dai_Viet or lthv22, whoever win this round will be my competitor in the final round. This is the official competition for the title "Minh Chủ Võ Lâm". :genius:

Be well-prepared because I'm gonna use my 2 great techniques of BinhDinh martial art Hoàng Long Quyến Địa (yellow dragon sweeping the sand) and Tiên Đả Song Quyền (forward and strike with both fists). I will defeat my opponent in the turn of a hand, will see. (j/k)

Now come and get me

Darn! I'll let lthv22 take challenge you. He beats me in every competition, poetry, history, and so on... now it's martial art.

lthv22, be my guess on taking July_Rain's challenge.

Uhm...it's a tradition. Back to the time of TaySon rebellion, there was Admiral Bui Thi Xuan, a female Commander-in chief of Tay Son Dynasty, very well known for both her beauty and talent. In the battle, she could use two swords at the same time and ride an elephant to command troops. She've beheaded a Siam general and together with other TaySon generals, she defeated the Siam troop in the battle of Rach Gam-Xoai Mut. Many of her soldiers were female too. Since then, the martial arts school in Binh Dinh had taught as a large Vo Binh Dinh for people and soldiers, including female to protect the country from the strong neighbor invasions.



Well said Thy

Cai mui=cai muong.

Lúc làm biếng thì dùng :P

Hy không rành.. bây giờ đâu cũng em và anh hết..

Different dialects are so much more fun!! with misunderstanding and stuff, hilarious!

You're still my #1

Làm ơn bỏ thêm vài cái dấu đi SPNV! Hy tưởng là cái muỗng gọi là cái thìa

Hình như đèo(N) là đưa(S).. nghĩa là quá giang đó...

well when i was back in saigon we alway think that were the best and alway make fun of everyone else(mostly the north)

Awwww... thanks Hy.

hehehe July_Rain's so cute. Yeah! Let the battle begin- it would be fun to watch, guys. hehe


Thanks for the info, J_R. Wow, that's very admirable, to have a female leader be so beautiful and talented, and who knew how to put her talents into good use. We are thankful to the great warriors of Vietnam, and especially of Binh Dinh, for their courage and love, so that we may keep our independence and culture until today.

You sound like you have had some background in martial arts, J_R. So did you also have practiced Vo Binh Dinh may I ask? If so, then since what age, may I ask; and do you still practice? =)

did north accent, and the way they speak used to be like the south....
because maybe the south migrated away, but kept the old old accent and stuff, but north stayed at the same spot and continue to change the accent and stuff.

That's an interesting question, Tam Ca. I also wonder how we came to speak with different accents since ancient times. But I had always thought it was something we were born with- the Northern/Central/or Southern accent (I don't call it dialect because it's not really a different dialect- we all can understand one another well)- and all three accents have always been the same as it is today, with maybe only a slight variance, with time.
About the migration to the south- I am not sure of what you are referring to. But I thought the oldest "dialect" was the Northern, since the literature and words are more ancient and complex than the Southern, which seems to use more simple and modern language.. Would anyone be able to say more about the history and evolution of our language?

dude. your theory seems backward. take the american for example. they moved away to america and their accent changed a little bit from the english people as time passed.

staying at the same spot doesnt mean they wont change you know.... but it can...
i'm just saying what if it did....
some people who migrate away from the older people sometimes keep the more older traditions and stuff.

o yea.. im also wondering how central came to be.... did people get lazy of raising their tone all the time and started using easier lower tone accent lol, because central accent you dont put as much POWER into ur accent like north and south.

If you look at Muong language,
Yang in Muong means gold, which is correspond to Vang in Northern Vietnamese, and yang in southern Vietnamese

north and south write vang the same the south just said it with a y instead

So are you saying that many words in Southern Vietnamese are closer to the ancient words of the Muong language, therefore, the Southern dialect is the more ancient one? But what is Muong Language? Could you elaborate and put in the accents also?

But whether or not the Southern dialect resembles the ancient language more, does not really say how the accents came about. It could be something inherent; like a group of people adopted a certain dialect because they were born with that tongue. For example, the Northern people may have chosen to say "Vàng" instead of "Yàng" because it is easier for them to pronounce.

They didn't technically choose, languages evolve. The Quoc Ngu script was based on Northern Vietnamese in the 17th-18th century, therefore it retains the 18th century pronunciation of Northern Vietnamese people. For 2 centuries, Hanoi dialect has changed dramatically such as the lost of "r", and transformation of simplication of y,r,gi to *z or sometimes *sz. Ever wonder why the *f sounds are written in "ph", because Northern Vietnamese actually said *p+h in that time, similar to modern Greek *ph, but it evolves to f. If the ph was pronounced as *f , then why didn't they use the F which does occur in Latin-Portugese script.

Northern Vietnamese is also obviously have more chinese influences as in word usages, such as the replacement of "hoa" to "bông" (rarely Northern people use bông, however the bông word was written in Truyện Kiều. Another one is hổ vs. cọp. Northern Vietnamese only use hổ.

Also in 10th to 16th century, the "tr" word was pronounced as "bl" as in "blời ơi" instead of "trời ơi". This is still recorded in chunom script.

What influenced this transformation though?

Transformations you mentioned:

* y, r, gi sounds to Z or SZ sounds
- change is in phonetics, but in written language, it has not transformed.

* "f" & "ph"
-before, only the Northerners say the "ph" sound; now everyone says the "f" sound.
-But I heard, before, "ph" used to be written as "f" instead-- ?



This is what I meant by Northern Vietnamese having more ancient words. Could you tell me, would the Muong Language you were referring to be a type of Chinese language or something?

It's interesting to see how the Vietnamese language evolved, but you have confused me on which one you think is more ancient. To me, it seems like it is something we cannot say with certainty because there are old and new conventions in both the Northern and Southern dialects.

For example,
* the transformation from y,r,gi to z -- this being a transformation says that the "z" sound is the more modern?
* and the change from the ph sound to f sound -- this is a transformation toward the Southern pronunciation, which is the more modern then?

I see the Vietameses language evolving as people adopt new conventions in pronouncing words, and adopt new words; and this evolution is influenced by what? -Perhaps by other cultures which have influenced Vietnam, such as the Chinese and the French. The language, word usage, and sounding conventions of the Vietnames language today, is a result of a mixture of external (foreign) and internal influences- the environment. After one puts it into use many times, it becomes a convention, then a dialect. But who is to say which dialect is the original one, and which one evolved from it. It seems that all languages and their dialects evolved in one way or another, according to what the culture was being exposed to.

But if as a country we were exposed to the same foreign influences, then why does one region choose this convention, while the other region chooses another? Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that our habits used in speaking go back to which dialect suits our tongue best- it's easier for us to sound- more familiar to us- so we are naturally inclined to adopt that convention?

Southern Vietnamese retains the old word usages, while Northern Vietnamese keep replace it with Han-Viet words.

Muong language is the closest language to Viet, it's the only other language that in the Vietic group excluded Vietnamese, its counting systems and basic words are the same in Vietnamese.

The Quocngu hasn't "evolved", it's been like that for 3 centuries, that's why the pronounciation of it is VERY different from Northern Vietnamese even though it was based on Northern Vietnamese.

I agree with you the rest. Northern Vietnamese has a lot of Chinese influences compared to Southern Vietnamese. However, Southern Vietnamese has a lot of Cambodian influences, and Central Vietnamese is influenced by Cham(?).

Also I don't think our language is influenced by French.

...
Anyway, I just want to get this clarified:

What would the old language be called? So you mean that the Southern dialect today is older because it has not evolved as much as the Northern dialect?




You mean that the Viet language didn't borrow as many words from French. But we know that our Quoc Ngu alphabet was a significant convention of the French, right?

Just an interesting fact, in Viet, "su" means coin or money, as in ,"Mình không còn một su."

Well, did you know that su is a French word?

Also, a side note is that the French had a strong influence on Vietnamese culture as well; in changing some of our views on the role of women in society to be more liberal, our love for beauty, romance, and some Vietnamese cuisines (ie. French bread) were also influenced by the French.

I don't like writing long stuff, that's why I always tried to write to the point and concise but I guess I'm really a bad writer.

To answer your question:


Vietnamese , it's just that through time Vietnamese has evolved. Some researchers even think our language use to be full polysyllabic, instead of disyllabic. Also,southern Vietnamese doesn't neccesarily retain the "old" Viet, however, it's less influenced by Chinese than the North.

French did influence in word usages such as "xichlo", "fo-mat" but it didn't influence Vietnamese as in the way we talked. The French didn't change the role of Vietnamese women. In fact, if you compare French and Vietnamese women in history, Vietnamese women are way more liberal than French.

Also, I don't get what you mean by "Our love for beauty and romance".

...
Also, about the love of beauty, romance, and cuisines- these are living standards which have been shown to have changed in the city after French domination. People in cities, like Ha Noi and Sai Gon, began to focus more on luxury, fashion, cuisines; they liked to go party and get drunk, gamble- living a hedonistic lifestyle was then becoming a tradition. An essay called, "Quà Hà Nội", I think, portrays the many different types of foods sold in the markets and streets of the city, and the exotic means of entertainment becoming more popular among the city people. And it also shows that this was how many of both men and women earned their living- by ba'n rong (selling food by going from place to place).

There are positives and negatives in the French influence- many people became poor and lost their jobs and status because of the transformation in language- from chu nom to chu quoc ngu. Even those who were educated- ong do nho- professors- became useless under the new writing system- some resorted to taking drugs due to depression, and their family sunk into worse condition. This often forced the daughter to sacrifice her own body to make a living and support her family. However, in this society, people also became more liberal and began to reject some of the traditional views. I agree that women may have played an important role in society throughout Vietnamese history, and we had always had a more liberal view toward women, but it seems that after French influence, Vietnamese women made a bigger step toward achieving independence- in matters of marriage and occupation, for example. They could remarry, and more women began to go beyond the domestic chores, to work in the market place instead.

Hehehehe. so do you really know Vo Binh Dinh? please allow me to be your disciple i've been searching for someone to teach me the ways of Binh Dinh martial arts.

I've started at 14, learning its philosophy and theory at the beginning. My master is also my dad's best friend. The main purpose of practicing this is to keep myself healthy and retain the tradition. I don't practice as frequent as before as I get older because I have less time for it.



hmm....really?


Whoa, hi there, haven't seen you awhile, how's everything? Hey are you practicing Karate? cuz I remember you've mentioned it before...I might wrong. Vo Binh Dinh have many styles, even empty-hand form or weapon form. I mostly do weapon form, sword and short stick. My brother is practicing Karate.

Hm...it's nice to learn abit about north.... man before it though Vietnam only consist of North and South...central is just empty land.

Hi, yeah everythings going okay. how about you? oh i'm practicing kung fu. ah so you practiced Vo Binh Dinh since you were 14 . thats great! you do weapons forms mostly huh? i like practicing with weapons. its fun. i've always wanted to learn a Vietnamese martial art. i saw a book one time about Vo Binh Dinh but i didnt get to buy it.. hmm.. but i guess it would be better to learn from somebody instead anyways.

delete

The older people said it depends on the water you drink! Well, a lot of central people are farmers/fishers so maybe they work too hard so they are tired and just make everything easier to say...


I believe women could remarry in the Le dynasty. French used Le's law for women in VN. Hopefully it's clear


Mi`Chi'nh (B) ; Bo^.t Ngo.t (S)

Did you know that O*'t Hie^~m (Hue^') is O*'t Sim ? :P
O*'t Se? is o*'t nho? and o*'t su*`ng is o*'t to

This year 2004, thousands of North Vietnamese students moved to the South because they didn't satisfy requirements of Northern universities. The requirement for universities in Saigon is much lower

I guess that tells us something huh?

No, it means that the North is too poor to build more unis with higher capacity so they could only afford to take the best students.

I'm all happy because those Northerners will be Southernized and one day contribute to the prosperity of Saigon