Hi!

Do Indonesians, particularly the Javanese, Sundanese, Sumatrans, Dayaks, Madurese, Sasak, Timorese, Ambonese, etc, consider themselves part of the "Malay race"? Or do you rather want to be called as "Austronesian race", as most Filipinos now want. (Austronesian race encompasses the brown-skinned inhabitants of Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, and all of the Pacific Islanders).

Uhm, Betawi people are Javanese or Sundanese?

betawi is a separate ethnic group from Javanese or Sundanese

We do consider ourselves as a part of a bigger race that speaks Austronesian languages and dialects, which encompasses Taiwan, Malay Peninsula, Madagascar, Indonesian Arhipelago, Philippines Archipelago, and some islands in the Pacific.

However, we consider "Malay" as only the name of an ethnicity in that big family, in the same position as Batak, Ifugao, Dayak, Sundanese, Javanese, etc. So for us, Malay people are the ethnicity people who live in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei, and some Indonesian provinces on eastern Sumatra coast and West Kalimantan. So when we are talking about ethnicities in Indonesia, we will say there are Javanese, Sundanese, Buginese, various Dayak ethnicities, various Batak ethnicities, Banjarese, Malay, etc.

In fact, Malay people are only a minority in Indonesia (3,4%). It's one of the reason why we adopt Riau Malay language as the base of our national language, because if it was the language of the majority (that'd be Javanese, 41,7% of total population), it would cause problems and dissatisfactions.

So until there is another agreeable new name for the race (like Tai-Kadai, or Mon-Khmer), I agree with calling it "Asutronesian race"

^ Malay language was chosen as the national language of Indonesia also because in this region, people from Malaysia, Singapore, were speaking Malay language. So this can help with people from Indonesia to communicate easily and improve business opportunities with Singaporeans, Malaysians, Brunei-ans.

How i wish there is a language called, Bahasa Astronesia..

Betawi are natives of Indonesia?? Some guidebooks say that Betawi people are "descendants of laborers brought in by the Dutch from various parts of Southeast Asia", while some say that they are descendants of mixed Chinese, mainland Southeast Asian, Javanese, and Sundanese people...

Filipinos still call themselves Malays. I bet that most have never heard of the term "Austronesian"

And what does Malay race include?


Absolute crap. At the time Malay Riau language was chosen as Indonesian national language, Malaysia and Singapore were not around yet --had not been dreamed of yet, even. It was when Malay states in Malay Peninsula was still divided between those "advised" by British Residents and not, and your Singapore was governed as one (of four) part of a British crown colony, without a single idea of a nation let alone a national language.
As for improving business opportunities, everybody knows most of those Malaysians and Singaporeans talking about real, big time business opportunities would rather talk in their ancestral language --not Malay-- anyway, and so only Indonesians of similar descent who are still able to speak that language may enjoy any advantage (thus fluency in Indonesian or any Malay languages or creoles doesn't count).

Is there 'Malay race' ?? See :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_race. It is merely political concept now, not anthropological one anymore. Anthropologically, the Malays (in the sense that people who live in southern part of Indochina and the archipelago) are of mixture in origins. The so called mulatos or mestizos in Latin America. We should stop thinking 'race' as political concept or to be applied in political discourse. It is easily manipulated.

^^In Malaysia I know for sure it's a political concept, but so what? They can have it as that but we, too, can give it other meanings. As if they hold the copyright for "Malay" (maybe they do, considering what they did to us recently ). IMHO, political concept can always be redefined, and neutral term can always be politicized. Someday we might wake up and find that "Austronesian race" is already politically loaded.
Anyways, the thread starter differentiates between "Malay race" and "Austronesian race" but giving explanation only for the latter, so I'd like to know what the meaning of the former to him, esp. because he's not Malaysian.

^ I dunno what Malay means to others, but for Filipinos it's like a racial term that includes most of the population of the Philippines. It's basically the brown-skinned ppl. Filipinos also recognize that Indonesians and Malaysians are also part of the "Malay race."

Native Filipino = Malay = Brown

hence the term

Filipino Malay

Thank you. What's the difference again? Anyone?

Malays are the brown-skinned ppl who inhabit the Malay Archipelago. Austronesian is a wider group of ppl that encompasses Taiwanese Aborigines, people of the Malay Archipelago, Pacific Islands, and Madagascar. They all speak Austronesian languages.

There's no telling what Betawi is because I don't think they were acknowledged as an ethnicity before the 19th century. For sure, they are a mix of ethnicities. Before, the natives of Jakarta was the Sundanese (Jakarta's old name is Sunda Kelapa). You can still find remnants of Sundanese culture in Betawi's, such as Betawi's Yapong which stems from Sundanese Jaipong.

Anyway, you all know where I stand on this one.

Original Script Of Fei Xin's Xin Cha Shen Lan (Description Of The Starry Raft)





Fei Xin's description of Malacca



Fei Xin (Chinese: ??) was the Ming dynasty admiral Zheng He's translator. In his Description of the Starry Raft (1436), early Malacca was included.

He noted that Malacca people which was the Malays had "their skin resembled black lacquer, but there were some white-skinned people among them who are of ethnic Tang. Men and women appeared in mallet-like chignon hair style, simple and kind lifestyle, they fish at rivers and at sea. The coastal village was inhabited by very few peoples and was not ruled by any neighboring kingdoms. The only produce of Malacca was tin, from a river. Tins obtained from river were fired into tin block (konwn as Tin ingot) where each weigh 1.4 jin. Malacca paid annual 40 golds to Siam as tax..

The thread's focus becomes blurred. Let us back from the beginning. TS asked about Malay race. So, we talk about race. An anthropological concept. We should not confuse this with political charge. Simply race, physical and genetical. Of course, people of the southern archipelago have darker skin, curlier hair and different physical features than northern chinese, for instance. This happened due to movement of people through the archipelago.

First came the ancestor of australian aborigines and the papuans through mainland SEA. We may find them in a "pure" condition in inner part of Malaysia, the Negritos, people of Andaman, New Guinea, and Australia. They left some cave drawing in Borneo which showed similarity and tradition with the australian Aborigines and some Melanesian tribes. This supposed to be started 35000 years ago. Remember that at that time Sumatra, Java and Borneo (and may be Palawan) still attached to mainland Asia.

And then came the ancestor of Austronesian people from Formosa around 12 000 years ago. The experts hypothesised that these people came from mainland China, and they related to the Tai-Kadai (Austro-Asiatic) speaking people who now live in southern Cina and most part of Indochina. The movement is to south, to the Philippines. From this, second wave separated, to east and to south. To east they met with certain Melanesian, intermarriage, hence language and some 'different' physical features than western Austronesian. This continued to Hawaii, Rapanui and NZ (Aotearoa). To south, to Borneo and Celebes.

From Celebes there was 3rd movement to the east, resulting in people of Moluccas, West Papua (again, intermating with the Melanesian) and eastern Nusa Tenggara. From Borneo there were settlements already, but then 4th wave to south and west, inhabiting Sumatra, Java, Malayan peninsula. Here, they met with their "old cousins", the Austro-Asiatic. After the Indian influence came (supposed to be 1st century BC) the movement tended to stop. Some groups from Borneo, however, left west until reaching Madagascar. In Sumatra, Malayan Peninsula and Java we can trace some features contributed from Indian people (Caucasoids). Not to mention the Chinese who came earlier and intermating with the locals.

So, what is Malay race? A group of people with mixture origin deserve to be called 'race'? Just because we use malay as lingua-franca made us belong to the same race ?

The confusion also arose with the 'Austronesian race'. I would prefer called them 'Austronesian(-speaking) people, instead of Austronesian race. The term Austronesia in the beginning was used as a linguistic concept. Yes, now there are some people use this as cultural and geological term. But 'Austronesian race' is certainly invalid. Someone who starts to politizing 'Austronesian race' has the parallel motive like Hitler with his 'Aryan race'.

After all, why we still bother to differ ourselves based on physical appearance? As an Indonesian, I found that the question basically irrelevant to Indonesia. We realised that we are physically different, but we almost never think about from what race I am, you are, he is or they are. Indonesians tend to accept interethnical marriage openly now.

So is the concept of "Malay" artificially forged by the neo-nationalists in Malaysia???

Would a "Javanese" or "Papuan" or "Orang asli" consider themselves as "Malay"? And vice versa, would a "Malay" consider themselves as "Javanese" or "Papuan" or "Orang asli"?

What strikes me about this topic is that one can say "Chinese" or "Turkic" peoples and we know clearly and have no quarrels about who constitutes the Chinese or Turkic peoples. But when it comes to the Malay peoples, it seems that there is alot of confusion and quarrels due to the ethnic differences.

Ok, a source of clarification from Wiki (probably written by a malay) seems to confirm my suspicion that the term "Malay" is a neo-nationalistic movement to redefine the Malaysian Malay's identity:




All of that above seems like the work of neo-nationalists. It's very narrow view without discussing the Indonesian point of view whatsoever on the concept of Malay identity.

Seems to me like the neo-nationalists are trying to reconstruct the Malay identity with effect from 15th century onwards where the local indigeneous cultures began to experience the effects of islamization. Prior to the 15th century, they seem to have no interest whatsover on acknowledging the Hindu/Buddhist influences on their civilization whereas such ancient influences are still acknowledged by Indonesian school of thoughts... see this article of Indonesian Philosophy which lists the school of thoughts that have influenced the Indonesian identity (Ethnic, Chinese, Indian, Islamic, Western, Christian).


In Malaysia, there's a total whitewash on the other school of thoughts, the only dominant school of thought allowed to influence the discourse of the Malay identity seem to be just the Islamic school.. what do u think of this observation? It seems to me that Indonesia has wider capacity to absorb influences on their national identity and accept racial and ethnic differences in their midst, whereas Malaysia has difficulties doing the same due to a narrow vision of history or perhaps an existential fear of 'extinction of the Malays'. I read a pantun yesterday that had been sung in the early days of colonial independence which bemoans the fact that the Malays are being trampled like grass by the other races.

I think many people have nvr even heard of the term Astronesian.

To tell you the truth, I couldn't care less what Malaysians want to call their people. So they got their own definition, and we have our own. I began to get irritated when they claim things that are originated in Indonesia as their own, in the name of "Malay race", because all of us are "Malay race" to their definition, then everything owned by an ethnicity of "Malay race" could be claimed by other ethnicity of "Malay race".

What I don't understand is, why do they have to do that? Don;t they have any pride in their Malay heritage? Malay ethnicity in Indonesia will proudly exhibit their pantun, zapin, mak yong etc when asked to display their heritage. But it seems to me that the Malays in Malaysia don't feel that their own heritage is enough. Malaysian artist took moves from Balinese dance and shamelessly brought it to international event.

This is really shameful because not only the Balinese got nothing to do with the Malay (unlike the Javanese, as there are a lot of Malaysians of Javanese ancestry), it's also an irony considering Malay Malaysian despised the Balinese, calling them idol-worshipers and other ugly things.

The term "Malay Race" wheather is it correct or not, is common people way to be identify with Austronesian race.
But since Malaysia used the name "Malay" in their country name, it seems that they holds "copyright" of everything identified as "Malay".
That sentiment and notions is not shared and agreed by Indonesia.

Coz, you all have known that in Indonesia the word "Malay" or "Melayu" refer to ethnic group (suku), not race. Just a part, a member of larger family of ethnicities that formed modern Indonesia.

Soo I don't identify myself as Malay, coz my ethnics identity is Javanese-Sundanese.

Why do Indonesian origin people resides in Malaysia don't mind to be considered "Malay" eventough they were Minang, Aceh, Bugis, or Javanese ancestry which is not Malay in Indonesian senses...?
Simple, coz they try to adapt and fit in.
Remember the Minang proverb "Dimana bumi dipijak, disitu langit dijunjung?", and moreover they enjoy "bumiputra" status, why bother to turn down this advantage?

About racial identity, we do consider that majority of us is part of larger Austronesian race, (yet some Indonesian has melanesian ancestry like papuans, and molluccans that some consider as part Austronesian, part Melanesian).
Then again Austronesian race is diverse, intermarried with other race/ethnics (Chinese, Indian, Arabian, Melanesian Papuan, etc) could take place, thus add complexity of race definition in Indonesia.

To sum it up, yes we consider ourselfs as part of Austronesian race (some people name it "Malay race", which I think not completely correct identification), but not all of us readily and willingly to identify ourself as Malay.

These are two interesting articles I found in Malaysia Today in the last two days:

Contesting Malayness
Re-contesting Malayness: ... (read the comments too, the author of the first article answers the author of the second article)

@ Maja: I do not agree with you. "Malay race" does not exist or totally incorrect translation. When we (as common people) talk in Indonesian/Malay, what comes out actually "orang Melayu" (Indonesia) or "bangsa Melayu" (Malaysia). And these translate to Malay people or nation, but not race. Race goes to "ras" in Indonesian, it is used as if you are talking about horses, dogs or cats. Human as "animal". Be careful using this word, because we have to learn from the past that some crazy people played with this word to gain their political ambition. Encyclopaedia Brittanica, in their macropaedia, have downplayed their discussion on this topic due its irrelevancy to the modern living (after WWII), which I think very wise decision.

And, "Austronesian race" again? *LOL. I wonder, why people always eager to talk about things that never exist.

However, about "try to adapt and fit in" I agree with you.

Another note: if I am not wrong, in Indonesian there is word "Malaya" to mention the region in the peninsula. So, "Semenanjung Malaya", "penduduk Malaya". This word is used to reduce the confusion with word "Melayu".

^ Yeah.... racial classification itself is still uncertain
I think and red before...., the main groups are:
Caucasian (european, arab, jew, persian, northern indian)
Negroid (african)
Mongoloid (chinese, japanese korean, thai, khmer, burmese, phillippines, indonesian, native american?)

Indonesian belongs to the branch of Mongoloid, while to begin with, the name Austronesian itself is used to clasify language branch, not race.....

Guess most of Indonesian (not all) are part of Mongoloid in racial sense.

I found Mr Bin Puteh's article hilarious, and frankly very typical of malay chauvinism.

So Mr Chick's beef is that the definition of "Malay" is therefore simply a collection of peoples who speak a similar type language. And this is what Mr Bin Puteh simply had to say in his own profound malay logic :

Just because we did not exist as Malay in the past it doesn't mean that we cannot be so now?

The same with religion just because our ancient ancestors were Hindus or Buddhists then, it doesn't mean that we cannot be Muslims now and be proud of it?

There are many people who are converting to Islam as we debate on this issue and we have to respect their decision to be Muslims.

There is a limit to any historical and anthropological experiment and adventure, and there are many lifeless facts that one can get into the debate, most of which are not relevant and totally unnecessary unless if one wants to conduct a research purely to ridicule.

Why find faults with the Malays? The same logic can also be said of the other races. How on earth could a group of people remain the same without evolving with the times and accepting new influences of all types?

When we say the Indians speak Indian and the Chinese speak Chinese, what do we mean? Nothing. There are not Indian or Chinese languages, just Tamil, Malayam, Telugu, Hindi and Mandarin, Cantonese, Hokkien and so on and so forth. In fact, Cantonese is also not a language of a certain people but those who live in Canton or Guanzhou.

In fact all of us should be called WOMBIES -- because that's all of us were from -- the Wombs!

How come they make themselves such laughing stocks???? Wombies!!!!

Let me add this tanga: Why in Malaysia, the javanese, the buginese, the madurese,( + boyanese), and so on, called Malay, when it is not applicable to the Dayaks ? Racially, they are the same.

Actually, if they grouped the Tamils, Telugus, and so on as Indian, and the Cantonese and so on as Chinese, they should call the javanese and co. as Indonesian! What's the difference between the malay of Indonesian origin (which came during colonial time) and the Indonesian workers not (the so called 'Indon') ? Nothing. Just lapse of time. Their concept of Malayness (or Malay race??) is political, which is a dangerous adventure. This will not finish until the debate about "Malaysia nationality" concluded.

The questions left unanswered. So, let me try to add some information.

First question: I can not answer. I leave it to fellow Malaysians. But, the name 'Melayu' (as 'Malay') already used in Srivijaya era to mention a place and the language they used.

2nd q: In Indonesia, they won't. West Indonesians sometimes use "perut Melayu" to mention that they do not eat if they do not eat rice. That is colloquial. In Indonesia, Melayu is an ethnic group, distinct from Sundanese for instance, which also variable inside.

3rd q: About Chinese and Turkic, both are linguistic term, and especially Turkic, the speakers are multiracial. Malay as linguistic term posesses no confusion, so too Malay people. Actually, Malaysia inherits the problem applied by the British colonialist, when they grouped the citizens based on 'race' or origin. Too bad, the nationalists seemed to continue this policy. Quarrels come when the concept of 'Malay' ('Melayu') used to define a "race" or nation and involving religion. Quarrels come because it is defined improperly.

That's because they think they will benefit from the political favours in Malaysia that favours the bumiputeras, that's why they don't mind being labelled as Malays. Whereas, Dayaks have been persecuted economically for donkey years, so they would resist the Malaynization label.

In fact, when I think about it, even as there are things like globalization, americanization, arabization, sinicization going on in this world, this Malaynization is an attempt by the elites in Malaysia to resist other forces of -ization going on in their society.

I believe such forces are created to entrench the power of one group to overlord over the other. Like how the chinese used to sinicize their invaders. Some chinese chauvinists would claim its because the chinese culture is superior and advanced, but i think it's likely cuz the invaders need to control the chinese ministers and warlords.




Yep, i think it's a dangerous manoevre, cuz I reckon the young folks in Malaysia nowadays with their education and exposure abroad no longer can accept the old fuedalistic system of bumiputera favouritism, and the old guards in Malaysia in trying to maintain the status quo and grip on power not just physically but ideologically, have to create this new Malay identity to re-establish their legitimacy in the eyes of the young. I doubt if the Malaysian nationality debate will be concluded when there are such high stakes at play for the Malay ultra nationalists who so fear their own demise in the corridors of power.

How can they be helped to get over their paranoia??





Can u tell me which chronicle mentioned Melayu??



I wouldn't blame it on the British colonialists when we can see so damn clearly that the Malay ultra nationalists are playing with this racial game to stoke the fire of nationalism and ideology that juz on race alone, they should be entitled to perpetual privileges and rights. They are trying to sell this to their young voters.

Many progressive and intellectual Malay youths know that the time has now come for them to throw such "mental crutches" away and stand on their own two feet because these mental crutches have made them feel that they are hopelessly destined for mediocrity in the economic world.

Many overseas Malay students are jeered by others around the world when they talk about economics. So they shut up about how their country has this positive discrimination policy for decades that they can't seem to get rid of. Of course, some will argue that economic equality has not been achieved for all Malays to this day and that only a fraction of the elites have benefited from this. Whilst I don't begrudge the positive discrimination policies over the past decades, I disagree completely on the continuation of the privilege politics and policies because i think a broad swathe of Malay middle classes have been successfully created from the positive discrimination and the time is possibly ripe for the middle class to push their government to engender a more competitive ideology that will benefit the economic survival of their offsprings in the decades to come.

It is quite strange how when it comes to money, the Chinese have been slammed as unscrupulous but you will notice that the Malays can debase their own abilities just to get the handouts and freebies that their government throws out. I have seen that in African states, it's not an uncommon trait in humans.

Frankly, I think all this circular debate about Malayness is due to the rising of China and K-pop and their creeping influence in the fabric of our economic and social life. The Malays are fearful of their ability to compete.

Perhaps they are looking for safety in numbers with their brothers across the Straits in Indonesia? To encompass them as Malays in a kind of numbers game? But they seem to be failing sorely to win over converts as can be seen with the recent spate of quarrels over heritage songs and migrant treatments.

The most quoted is of course the chronicle written by I Tsing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching_%28monk%29. You may read this also: http://users.skynet.be/network.indonesia/ni4001c3.htm. Some Chinese chronicles on that era mentioned also about a place/kingdom called mo-lo-yeu (or similar to it, it was written in chinese characters, you know). Pls refer to English and Indonesian wikipedia about Srivijaya as an introduction. An inscription of Padangroco, dated 1208 Caka (or 1286 ME) mentioned "people of Bhumi Malayu" (Malay land), which most archeologists believe to be in nowadays Jambi. EFEO Journal has some articles on Srivijaya/Melayu too.

Kingdom of Dharmasraya was sometimes called Kingdom of (Jambi) Malay too. Notice, however, the naming was not inclusive since in Singhasari era, there was an attack conducted to "conquer Malay" (Pamalayu expedition) by a Javanese king. We in Indonesia retain the concept til now.

Anybody wants to add?

Austronesian aye? Mmmm. That's just a Latin-derived ('auster') western term meaning 'south', actually. You might as well call them Australian, as far as etymology is concerned. Wellll, everyone has their own preferences.

I bet you didn't ask the Sumatrans about that, did you?

I just enquired with my Sumatran friend from Medan, who said that Sumatrans r largely either Malays or Bataks, who r ethnically proto-Malays.

Incidentally, he also told me that Patih Gajah Mada, the famed patih (prime minister) of Majapahit was actually a Sumatran Malay from Pagar Ruyung. That's why he had a Malay name, rather than a Javanese name.

Don't forget that Jambi/Melayu, under king Dharmasraya, defeated n conquered Palembang in 1088 AD, thereby becoming the new leader/master of Srivijaya. N then Jambi/Melayu stayed on in control as the lead kingdom of Srivijaya until 1288. That's 2 solid centuries, 200 years.

pertanyaan mudah koq jawabannya kesono kesini...


Indonesia consider dirinya sendiri sebagai MULTI RACE titik.
kalo udah titik tidak boleh di ganggu gugat.

So you agree that the Bataks are not a part of this "Melayu" race, right? Even the Muslim ones?

The thing is, dreamy, you don't know nothing. We Indonesians are held our own distinct identity very highly. The Minangkabau and the Acehnese acknowledge Malay as their relatives, but they prefer to be called as Acehnese or Minangkabau or Padang. Or do you forget that I am the one who interact daily with these people, and not you? You can be sure that my Minangkabau friend is angry at how Malaysians claim "rendang" as their own, 'cos the Minangkabau believes that it's their stuff and not the Malays'.

Even Gayo people who are very-very closely related to the Acehnese refuse to be called as "Acehnese", even though their culture is very similar, their religion is the same, and they live in the same province. That's how we Indonesian think about our identity.

What?? are you serious?? how dare you dude!! most filipinos are insulted when called malays,,we prefer austronesians and that's what basically our racial stock plus also other influences,, but we just want to be filipinos above all else regardless of regardless xD

wow... now i know just why someone in Indonesia wanna 'buluh runcingkan' Malaysian.

i am Malaysian citizen, Malay race (south east peninsular ethnic ; Pattani, Kelantan, Terengganu). here is my view on thos topic as a Malaysian :

1. in Malaysia we do consider all native people such as Org asli, Melayu, Bajau, kadazan, Jawa, Batak, Minangkabau, Iban, Bugis, sulu etc as BANGSA MELAYU.

2. Why, because of our glorious history - i'll get back to it later (not Malaysia, but us - native people of South East Asia either u'r Proto Malay @ Deutro Malay, doestnt matter, as long as ur native)

3. Hundreds years ago, everyone is free to go to whenever they want. there is no immigration department, there is no specific border. Our kings intermarriage each others to tighten our blood ties as well as bond between Malay City States (eg: King of Melaka + Pasai, Brunei + Temasik, Srivijaya + Singhasari, Champa/Kembayat Negara + Kelantan, Terengganu + Pattani, Johor-Riau + Bugis, Funan + Chenla, Lancang + Kedah Tua etc.

4. There were hundreds Malay City states ever exists in SEA. why malay, why not Java or bugis or sulu etc language..yes BAHASA MELAYU...and what make this certain language, Bahasa Melayu so important..the answer is The Maritime Empire of SRIVIJAYA.. Srivijaya among others manage to band various Malay City States under it's wings in the name of Srivijaya Federation. just to name a few, Langkasuka (southern malay penansular up to Burmese coastline &on along thai costal today), (northern borneo & southern Filip area), the whole Indonesia islands, Malay Penansular, part of Champa (vietnam) & Funan (chambodia) & even few part in India continent. Others states which not under it's wing ties a bond with it by marriage such as Lancang (loas). This federation was existed not thru wars but rather maritime advantage. every part country (malay city states) had their own unique culture but Srivijaya made em' mingle and everything starting feel like home, everywhere. Even later Majapahit Kingdom which is known as Javanese Empire using Bahasa Melayu as its trading and royal language.

5. we can't deny that, BAHASA MELAYU used to be lingua-franca of SEA. im not goin to eloborate on this, u may refer to Chinese, Arabic & Indian old teks book, ancient stone inscriptions found in Jawa, Sumatra, Malay Peninsular, Borneo, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnan, Filip, etc..all over SEA. also u might wanna read about Henry The Black (Awang Hitam), native people who help European Invaders reaching out to SEA people, and travelling the globe!! (i believe Malay Race was natural born with Oceonic Instint, seafarer, even Perahu Fisherman know a things or two which European & westerners cant never know without the help of technology.. if u read well, u'll find that arabs, indian & chinese voyager note, traders before 13th century never know how to travel thru Champa Sea (South China Sea), they dont have the knowledge as well as technology and had to rent Malay Ship to bought them over from Africa (Egypt), Middle east, India - china..while us, Malay Race already reaching Madagascar, Japan & Hawai'i..see what language they used.. yes, we Malaysian also had our own native language & dialect, which slightly different with mainstream Bahasa Melayu, but point is Bahasa Melayu is the Mother of all.

6. and among other is culture & new settlement. fyi, mostly people in northern malay peninsular mostly a mixture blood of local & Melayu Champa, Melayu Langkasuka + sumatran & java whilst southern was a mixture of local + java + sumatran + java. they brought with em their own culture toi this new settlement.. that is why we considered batik, kuda pendek etc is own culture as well. indeed, we're not that different..dont be fool by the names & border colonial gave to us!!!

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No, actually Fil am Graham was correct and you are wrong? Are you really a Filipino? a Fil am perhaps. Almost ALL Filipinos believed they belong to the Brown race or Lahing kayumanggi or the Malay race. In fact, the national hero, the pride of the Malay race, pemaGAT Jose Rizal claimed the indigenous people of the Philippines are the Malayan Filipinos. All textbooks taught in schools indoctrinated us the concept of the Malay race or the MALAYAN migrations. Though I disagree of course in the concept of the Malay race. For I believe there is only a SINGLE HUMAN race. So, Malay race is only a sub subrace from the subrace Asian Mongoloid genotype and phenotype from the single Human race. I am talking about the concept of race and not about the ethnic Melayu from Malaysia of course.

It's only here in Asia finest where I hear such as that of the threadstarter who btw claimed(or posing?) to be a Fil-Chinese, that Filipinos now prefer to belong to the Austronesian race. Obviously, most Filipinos don't give a damn about those things.

In fact, most Filipinos have never heard of the term Austronesian except for a very few minority who took some collegiate courses with linguistics subject but more as a major LANGUAGE group and not RACE.

In the Philippines btw, Malay or Malayo has four meanings:
FREE, consciousness or thought, the Malay race and far.

I also don't subscribe to the the linguistic theory of bellwood and blust with their Taiwan Origin of Austronesians. Karafet claimed majority of Indonesians are of Paleolithic origins O2 from mainland Southeast Asia Sundaland subcontinent to be exact when sea levels were low. Solheim and Oppenheimer proposed Insular Southeast Asia(Sundaland) origin of the Austronesians. Neolithic Austronesians seems to originate in the Philippines proper as per the newest mitochondrial studies and not Taiwan as the latter has absent precursor phylogenetic genotype to the genetic Polynesian motiff, THE MARKER FOR THE AUSTRONESIAN EXPANSION.

In the Philippines, the OLDEST HISTORICAL DOCUMENT, LAGUNA COPPERPLATE INSCRIPTION, was written in Kavi script in the MIXED OLD MALAY, TAGALOG, Sanskrit AND PERHAPS OLD JAVANESE TOO. This was written circa 10th century AD, when Srivijaya was at its peak. It tells about the SENAPATI OF TONDO(ADMIRAL OR COMMANDER IN CHIEF) giving judgement of reprieve of debt to the children of a certain Namwaran. Also mentioned with some attendance from some witnesses like the ruler from far away MEDANG who proxied for the ruler of GOLD RICH Diwata(now in Butuan, Mindanao). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_Copperplate_Inscription

Some of our historians also claimed alliances with Majapahit too as attested by the intermarriage between Majapahit ruler Angka Vijaya/Widjaya(Soledan) with Dayang Sasaban of the Kingdom of Sapa(Kingdom of Lusung or Luzon or also called Selurung by the Bruneians or Saludung to the ancient Indonesians as to the Majapahit Nagarakertagama document). Their son Prince Balagtas in turn married the daughter of the Sultan Bokeiah Nakhoda Raggam of Brunei. All these accdg to the (quasi?) historical document written by Pansonum aka Don Fernando Malang Balagtas, the former LAKANDULA OR RULER OF TONDO, the grandson of Prince Balagtas. Pansonum was usurped by Sutan Bokieahs' grandson Raja Ache or Raja Matanda in favor of his brother Raja Banau christened Don Carlos LACANDOLA as the last Lakandula or ruler of Tondo prior to the coming of the Spaniards. The last ruler of Manila prior to the SPANISH COLONIZATION, Raja Soliman(Sulayman) was their nephew.

hi all, who cares what race. the only colour i worry about is the colour of money and how much i have. no im not selfish and greedy, i just do not go around giving a rat butt about what i am. btw whats with all the spam on this site. fire the mods haha

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