History of Malaysia is only a small part of history of Nusantara .... But, I really don't like the attitude of our governmrnt to claim that all heritages from Nusantara are ours because we have nothing as new "nation" ...

I also don't like the attitude of our government that already "manipulated" our history in our text book .......

WAYANG KULIT @ WOYAE KULEIK



EXPLORING WOYAE KULEIK : From a Lifeless Piece of Hide



Making a Shadow Puppet..





















Credit

http://raykinzoku.fotopages.com

Modern Wayang Kulit





A BILLBOARD IN KOTA BHARU : Humor and Wayang Kulit :
( Photoshopped reading a newspaper is " Pok Dogo ", a comical character in the Wayang Kulit, the Court Jester )





Credit

http://raykinzoku.fotopages.com

Credit

http://raykinzoku.fotopages.com

no wayang is not from java. it is from some Western countries..

Aku mau nonton wayang, filem lakonan Adam Sandler.. the wayang is fully aircon, comfortable seats and in English, not in Javanese.

Shows how ignorant you are. We never claim Bahasa Indonesia as a Javanese dialect. Most of Indonesians are Javanese, but we adopt Riau Malay as our national language to cater all minorities rights

Marah lak Si Bhas nih....

bro...no matter what we say to all the indonesian forumers....its always not good enuf for them. Let it be lar bro

And I admire your "vast and depth" of Islamic knowledge by picking the name dragonaga as your name....

dragon or naga does not exist in "pure" Islamic traditions.
Dragon is known early in pagan Babylonian-Sumerian mythology Tiamat dragon. Dragon also flourished in Chinese tradition.
Naga is Indian origin name for earth giant serpents.

I suggest change it to Sabili (the way), Shaif (sword), Abduljihaad (servant of struggle) or any Islamic themed name, its suited your personality and personal religious view better....




I heard that Japan did plea Taliban not to destroy Bamiyan Buddha,
they even offered to cut to pieces and move this giant Buddha statue to Japan if Afghanistan didn't want it anymore. Still Taliban destroy Bamiyan Buddha.... its their narrowminded perception of fanatical distorted view of Islam that leads to this cultural tragedy. If Islam really encourage this relic destructions, so Egyptian should destroy pyramids, sphinx, temple of Amon at Thebes, and bomb Cairo Egyptian Museum. Iran too must destroy Persepolis and the gate of all nations since it contains human and animal figures.
Medical studies must not use any scale model of human body and organs since it awfully resemble humans. Monuments to commomerate heroes too should be destroyed...

Then humanity, culture, progress, art, and technology,
will suffer under narrowminded distorted intollerance backward minded interpretation of Islam.



Soo..., if Lembah Bujang site was as big and glorious as Borobudur, Angkor, and Prambanan;
contains loads of graceful and beautiful statue of hindu gods, apsaras, godesses and buddhas, then you may destroy it....?
Luckily Lembah Bujang is not contains human images.
Thanks God modern Indonesia is not a srict distorted theocracy state based on certain religious dogma.
I'm muslim, but I'm Javanese too, I would cry and angry if someone bombed Borobudur.

Goodluck for your puritant intolerance view of Islam....
My personal view of my Islam is "Rahman and Rahiim,
Islam as Rahmatan lil Alamiin, blessing for the universe..... not the intolerance reign of terror.
So I tend to discard any unfriendly, fierce, intolerance interpretation of Islam that claim by some fellow muslim as "true" way of Islam.



Pure Islamic way of life.... And what would that be...?
Is it just like Taliban's interpretation of Islam...?
Wow.. goodluck for you to following glorious Taliban's way.....

Yes Maja, I really think this is the future of Malaysia if such narrow mindedness persist. Geographically, a tropical and lush country, but culturally: a vast desert.

Oh yeah about Wayang thing. Can we fairly conclude that Malaysia too have their own Wayang tradition....?

But it will be different case if Malaysia claim that Wayang Kulit art is belong to them, or further..... claiming originated from Malaysia.....
Javanese will strongly opposed this claim....

Judging from the image, Malaysian Wayang Kulit seems to have Mainland SEAsia influence (either Siam or Champa) as well as Java.

Here's the article of Wayang Kulit from all malaysia info:

QUOTE

These statement pretty much describe Malaysian reluctancy to acknowledge Javanese origin of Wayang Kulit. Javanese develop and preserve Wayang Kulit tradition far older than any other known people who practice this form of art. Also develop it into complex form of art recognize by UNESCO :



Still "ngeyel" (in case you don't know, its means 'stubborn' in Javanese)...?

thanks for the long reply to my posting.....i'm very appreciate it......I also admire your dedication in searching for information....wah ,my nick also can be an argument for u...... I chose that nick because it's sound interesting because it's combination of two words that derived the same thing that is dragon or naga....... no need to take so deep about the origin of the words, just make it simple, 'dragon' or 'naga' in this modern world means mythical reptile able to breathe out fire or the words 'dragon' or 'naga' can be used to reflect something or someone which is fierce.....

but once again it doesn't mean that i'm a mythical reptile or fierce man when i used this word as my nickname....but i just used this word because it's sound nice and unique..... nothing to do with its where the word came from or its origin....

I'm also a half javanese and half minang if according to my descendant...... but my greatgrandfathers and greatgrandmothers had been migrated to Singapore and Malay Peninsula .....and now I am Malaysian who is Muslim and Malay in race....... and we Malaysians "Malay" are happy with this way to be known as Malay eventhough we came from various ethnicity....

We have to admit that Islam in Indonesia and Malaysia has some or certain differences in thoughts or way of life...... I don't want to argue so deep about this....I know you would agree with these differences......

Anyway, not everythings about Taliban are negative.....why don't you take a positive side.....you're Muslims right....so don't get carried away with the westerners propaganda to make Islam looks bad.......

p/s one more thing, janganlah mengutamakan adat lebih daripada suruhan agama Islam...... Islam always come first in our life as a Muslim...I know there are certains 'adat' in nusantara world that against Islamic way of life.......so we have to willing to release it from our life .....OK......

never try to preserve anything that against Islam for the sake of history or tradition....we have to remember that everything in this world will eventually destroy one day......

good analogue....





Even Malay Malaysian have Indonesian ancestry.....
Who knows... maybe those "Indon" maids and illegal workers despised and exploitated by RELA within several generations in the future will become future Malaysian ancestors.




I'm so into pluralism and against forced intolerant uniformist.
Can we cherished difference and diversity as richness and God's blessing, instead of demonize it...?




Yes I'm muslim. I don't carried away by anti-Islam propaganda, it was fellow puritant extreemist muslim themself who "dance in the beat of enemy's drum" and negative publication by blowing themself and people around them, that make us the rest of muslim look bad.



That's your view.
Muslim can do many other more useful things for the greater good of Ummah rather than busy categorizing what is not Islam, and what is Islam, and busy demonize and condemn things.

During Caliphate era, Islam reach it's glory not by shut itself from the world and retire in comfort zone "small shell" of dogmatic law.
But by embracing the world, open to many previous ciivilizations and non-Arabic/Islamic elements and influence. Ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian art chemistry, Persian art, architecture and spiritualism, Indian mathematics, Greeks philosophy. Then mold it and devine it as Islamic great civilization.

Since highschool I've started to think and expand my view beyond strict Islamic box. Thinking also in humanity, kindness, cultural and scientific POV, not solely rely on certain religious dogma.

I was an activist in Remaja Masjid during highschool. Attends some khutbah, listening tausiyah from my murrobbi. Then something strike me and make me wonder: Why some of my fellow muslim often "hate" non muslims, and even fellow muslims who has different view from them?
Love to demonize things, labeled many things "un-Islamic" "jahili" whatsoeva. Where's Rahman and Rahiim.....?
Monopolize God as solely theirs, any other interpretations and views belong to hell....? Is God really that wrathful...?
That not Islam I know.

I've found my Islam and it is the true nature of benevolent and blessing love of God. Not the narrowminded intolerant reign of terror.





This fatalistic view of "everything will destroyed one day" is contra productive....
Why bother to work, learn, build civilization, if eventually it will be destroyed.
Did Islam and God just come to bring destruction....?
This notions almost the same as: "why bother to live if we will die,"
"why bother to eat if eventually we will hungry later....?"

In the end, only kindness matter.

Excuses me.....legal prostitution you say....

while in malaysia, prostitution is done in close doors, indonesia is done in OPEN. I am writing from Batam Indonesia where prostitution is like a way of LIFE here....beat that

You true color is now showing.
Thats a much different view than what you said earlier about the Taliban destroying the Buddha state simply because IT WAS NOT BEING USED.
So its not about the statue not being used but mainly because of RELIGIOUS FANATICISM.
Really no better than other religious fanatics from different religions throughout history.

Really? So why not burn the Koran or the oldest Koran, why not destroy The Dome of the Rock the Atypical Mosque, why not destroy the foot print relics of Muhammid, Old door of Holy Kaba etc. (sarcasm)
Like you say they will eventually be destroy one day right! (sarcasm)

It is called the dooms day you idiot!!
Kiamat la ngok

"...you idiot!!"
(That would be called name calling and troll behavior thank you)

If you actually read the ENTIRE context of what dragonaga said in his earlier posts he's trying to justify the destruction of the Buddha statue and other relics (& preserving traditions). MAN MADE destruction, not by nature or by supernatural gods. It has nothing to do with dooms day.

Please refrain from name-calling or I'll beat you.

wait wait, if u guys say wayang from malaysia, which part is wayang from? as far as i know kelantanese dont invented wayang kulit. actually wayang is like our current wayang cinema, we play the "movie" movie from thai & jawa and also we also play story from local history. wayang kulit is more like gsc or tgv nowadays. we must admit it from jawa culture, after all most of malaysian malay is a javanese b4 we create our own "Malay". learn malaysian study in uni guys? our ancestors are javanese. but wait dont claim everything is from indonesia since the previous javanese kingdom center is located in ur country now. if u want to say its from javanese culture i can accept it bcoz its the truth but if u want to say its 100% from indo i cannot accept it. one more as a general info, since we did discuss about cham in this thread, kelantan/terengganu have more the "real" champ people than cambodia, if u go make a research most of cham people migrate to kelantan n terengganu after khmer attack previous cham empire and they lost on the battle. dont u feel weird that cham people in this time only about 500k-1m people only? how come the great empire of cham only got that amount of people? its because most of them already become malaysian malay together with javanese, bugis, bla bla bla.

p/s: pardon my grammar( lazy to recheck my sentences ).

Very much a serious chat topic.
Moving again. --->

Kelantanese Malays Wayangs are distinct & different from Javanese Wayangs like night & day.

The Kelantanese Wayangs evolved from Siamese Wayangs, as seen from inter-cultural assimilation that binds Southern Thai & Malayan East Coast states such as Kelantan & Terengganu.

Thus, aside from the extinct Wayang Jawa that no longer played in Malaysia, we can safely say, Kelantan's Wayangs are definitely of Malaysian culture.

Indonesians can do the same with their Wayangs too, as if we care!

IMO, there always ONLY one person who create all this wayang things... Be it Javanese or anyone I don't care..

It should be noted that there are different POV of what is "Malay" between Indonesian and Malaysian. For Malaysians, "Malay" is a common term to call Austronesian people, which span the area from Southern China, Taiwan, to the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Oceania. While for us Indonesians, "Malay/Melayu" is just one of the hundreds of ethnicities in Indonesia, along with Javanese, Sundanese, Minangkabau, Batak, Bugis, etc.

While your government politicized and created the term "Malay" as a common term to all "bumiputeras", we in Indonesia are well aware of our own heritages, all of us are very territorial and ethnocentric (to say the extreme). From our younger days, we know that Baju teluk belanga is a Melayu thing, Koteka is Papuan, Barong is Balinese, and Batik and Wayang are Javanese.

Because of this, no Malay in Indonesia would ever consider wayang (be it wayang kulit, golek, etc) as their heritage. They are proud of their own heritage, such as Zapin, Songket, Pantun, etc. Malay Malaysian act of claiming the heritage of other than Malay from Indonesia (Javanese, Ambonese, etc) brought them shame. There are a lot of postings from Malay Indonesians regarding the case of argument between Indonesia and Malaysia on the internet.

Maybe if we want to paly a blame game we should blame the people who introduced wayang kulit to us. J/K. Maybe they didn't know what mess they bring to Indonesian and Malaysian people.

Emm, I see the problem arise when Malaysia started promoting wayang kulit as their culturul heritege. Even in Malaysia some people said we should stop it because it again Islam and the other half said that it's our culture and we should appreciate it. After this some group will called wayang kulit be banned because it Indonesians thingy. And same goes to satay, batik, silat...etc.

p.s: For me life goes on.

The ignorant Indonesian politicians will continuing politicised the issue without doing proper research.

Given they depends heavily towards populist type support, expect many more of those dastardly Indo politicos antics in the future ...

I think this issues will stand as it is until they found another issues.

As it has been said by my Indonesian compatriots, my Malaysian friends. We don't paint our country with rosy colors. We are all well aware of the problems within our country. Yes, we do know that there are many politicians who brought this case on for their personal agenda. But even without their help, we would still hate parties who claim our heritage as their own.

PAWAGAM

Malay word coined by P.Ramlee for 'motion picture theater'. 'Pawagam' is short for 'Panggung Wayang Gambar'.

^What's that supposed to mean? Is it supposed to prove anything? How old is the the motion picture industry, compare to our wayang which is centuries old (and we have prove of that in our old records)? Just because Indonesians use the word "bioskop", doesn't mean that it was originally ours In other words, adopting the word (which was brought by a an Acehnese descent who was born in modern age) doesn't prove anything about the origin

We only claimed 'shared' cultural heritage as regard to hundred of years of assimilation.

Get this straight, your political leaders failed to promote the richly deserved Indonesian wayangs to the world, hell, I'm willing to bet, even local Indos too!

Your leaders failed to utilise the uniqueness of your wayang cultures to benefit local Indo population at large. They failed to create a national awareness amongst Indos regarding the economic & social importance in preserving & promoting local Indo cultures to benefit the nation.

In ONE SENTENCE ..... FAILED!

Yeah... yeah... yeah...
Another "Old songs".
Thats why your country need to create BUMIPUTRA concept to protect all lazy malaysian who cannot compete the mighty chinese and indian.
Whatever you say, it couldn't change the fact that wayang is originated from indonesia not malaysia as admitted by the world and officially written at UNESCO.

Be it as it may, our failure doesn't mean that you can't claim it as yours as you wish. If a poor neighbor of yours fail to promote her beautiful craft, you still don't have the right to take it away from her and showing it off to the whole neighbors and claim it as yours!

What's this got to do with the topic at hand? You've to be a troll, don't cha ... I've dealth with your kind before ...

That's Indo wayang. Yet your Govt. inability to promote Indo wayang as a heritage product to the world says a lot about lackaisaidal attitude in preserving the national heritage.

Wayang Kulit Kelantan is of Malaysian identity. You don't like the fact, tough .... & go home to cry yourself a river.

May I remind you that your government use what you called as "Indo wayang" in your tourism page?

Wayang kulit, Barongan etc were originated and belong to some races in Indonesia. I totally agreed with that fact. Those races/communities not only present in Indonesia but also in Malaysia and Singapore. They existence of them were long before the form of modern Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia. Some of those races migrated to Peninsular and Singapore before the form of modern Indonesia in 1945. The culture can cross the world without the border. One culture of the society that arrives at one place can change to adapt the local environment and geographical grounds. A culture can adapt another culture to form another culture. The language element is good example of culture. The culture particularly language is dynamic, it keeps changing and influence by other culture. Bahasa Malaysia has borrowed a lot from foreign language, and also samething to Bahasa Indonesia, English, Spain etc for example many terms in science and mathematic were most terms were taken from Latin and Greek. English also borrowed a lot from other language. Is Malaysia and Indonesia stole the culture because of this language as it is also apart of culture elements?

About Rasa Sanyange song, it was believed created by Ambonese man, the late Paulus Pea that born in 1907. Later Rasa Sayange song was recorded by PT Lokananta, Solo, Indonesia on August 15, 1962 on gramophone disc. This is first known of this song recording. The Rasa Sayange is also popular and sung by among the Portuguese in Malaysia, and is a favorite during festivals at the Portuguese settlement in Ujong Pasir I Melaka. The word "nona" in the lyrics of the Rasa Sayange song in Portuguese means a young lady or an unmarried woman.

The issue - Why Malaysia uses it to promote their tourism?. Well Malaysia always only has the attention to give a message that, Malaysia is formed by many ethnics and races, and that’s all. The message of Tourism Malaysia is NOT to claim the Barongan, Wayang Kulit etc are exclusive ownership of Malaysia. I know my fellow Indonesia will quote from a minister of Malaysia, but that is he responds due to arisen issue from different source.

The question - Should Malaysia tells to world that Barongan, Wayang Kulit, Rasa Sayang etc are originated from Indonesia? Well since Indonesians want to do so, I would like to encourage to Malaysian government to consider it in the name of ‘Semangat Asean’’. But my personal feeling is not important at all, because the world know that they were originated from Indonesia and already declared by UNESCO. Just like Chinese, Indian and Portuguese traditional dancing that has been promoted by Malaysia Tourism, the audiences know that it from China, India and Portugal. So I think, there is no need to tell the world. The audiences are not stupid. And of course Chinese and India tradition had influence Malay culture and lifestyle in Malaysia. That is reality of modern Malaysian culture today – is about Chinese, Indian, Malayu, Iban, Kadazan, Dusun, Asli and many others. Not only that, the image of Malaysia today is also formed by western culture. For example, symphony orchestra concert and modern theater. These western arts were also have been used to promote Malaysia. It is also an effort to recognize other ethnics/races existence of Malaysia.

Our lifestyle (all of us in Asia, America or Europe) wherever we live influenced by many tradition practices and cultures around the world. The language we use, the clothes we wear, how we eat, the objects around us such as spoon, plate, shoe, jean, skirt, blazer suit etc. Have we questioned our selves which country that own those elements in our lifestyles? These are all apart of our culture. Again, are we stealing the culture if we use those elements? The lifestyle is also major element of culture instead of traditional practices. And the Barongan, wayang kulit, rasa sayang song is apart of culture elements of country. Who have created these customs? Malaysia? Indonesia? Srivijaya Empayar? Or the ethnic/race – Javanese? Sundanese? Ambones? Remember these tradition practices have been in existence before the form of modern Indonesia and Malaysia.

So in my opinion, to be precise and fair, those disputed tradition practices do not belong to Malaysia or perhaps also not to Indonesia, or any country. But it is exclusively belong to the particular ethnic/race it selves, and they can bring their culture to anywhere, to any country across the border in the world to practices it. As you know, Malaysia uses Chinese, Indian, Portuguese and many other ethnic race traditions to promote their tourism as apart as Malaysian culture. But there were never complaint or objection from the people and government of China, India and Portugal.

so stupid! this dispute has gone too long and it benefits us nothing, but hatred. what a waste

.

Wow you guess alot....
and baseless too..... neat..

OK, I think you agree that this "stupid traditions" has Javanese Indonesian origin. Coz Malaysian are too smart to believe and uphold this nonsense.
Strangely this "stories of nonsense for uneducated person and stupid" is part of Malaysian tourism board promotion....

I see common average Malaysian people like you didn't appreciate art and culture, busy tried to transform your country to be a middleeastern state. Busy defining what Islamic and Malay and what is not. While on the other hand Malaysian tourism board bust their butt and spend money to "create image" of high and rich culture of Malaysia in their promotion to build soo called Malaysian cultural identity, including featuring art and culture that belongs to their neighbour.

I think the people and the government of China, India and Portugal are smart and matured enough. They proud their culture been shared and be part of other countries culture too. That is why they never complaint.

I think a few years back, there were moon cake festival in KL. The moon cake with different tastes from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam etc have been displayed. Malaysia has moon cake with special local taste, flavored with Pandan leaf. That is only one example.

MONDAY, DECEMBER 3, 2007
No More Barongan, Endang Dances At Malaysian Tourism Promotion Activities

Cultural performances originating from Indonesia, such as the "Barongan" and "Endang" dances, are to be shelved from Malaysian tourism promotion activities due to the controversy raised by cultural activists from the republic.

Tourism Minister Datuk Seri Tengku Adnan Tengku Mansor said today the decision was taken to ease the controversy while the matter was sorted out by the Culture, Arts and Heritage Ministry with the Indonesian Ministry of Culture and Tourism.

"The (barongan) dance thrives in Johor. If we look at history, our forefathers who migrated here had brought the culture and way of life from Indonesia to be part of our culture.

"In the old days, there were no boundaries between Malaysia and Indonesia, no passports, and not even an immigration system," he told reporters after opening a mass circumcision programme at the Putrajaya Hospital, here.

His announcement came in the wake of a demonstration by Reog Ponorogo (Barongan in Malaysia) activists outside the Malaysian Embassy in Indonesia recently, disparaging Malaysia for what it claimed was promoting the dance as part of the Malaysian culture.

Of late, the Indonesian media has also been critical of Malaysian songs and dances performed at official functions and over television which it claimed belonged to the republic. - Tourism Indonesia

They have Tourism Indonesia programme next year. Is this a copy of Tourism Malaysia. Oop sorry just a joke.

.

Solo means single in Malaysian language

.

What is so fun on arguing from where did the Wayang Kulit play come? Why don't Wayang Kulit fans just sharing the facts about their version of Wayang Kulit? Culture can be varied and transformed everywhere in the world.

I am a Kedahan Malay, I have Thai ancestry from Ligor which is now known as Nakorn Si Thammarat (Negara Sri Dharmaraja). Yes I admit that there is Malay with Javanese ancestry especially in southern states of Malaysia such as Johor and Selangor but I do not have any Javanese ancestry, the generalization may hurt our feeling because we strongly treat that the same way Indonesian do not like to be Malayanized. My family speak in two languages at home which is Kedahan Malay and Southern Thai. I have no relatives in Sumatera or any Java Island.

Wayang Kulit in Kedah is based from Nang Thalung and popular back then in 60's, Siamese Tuk Dalang did came to Kedah and performing Wayang Kulit in Siamese. In Kubang Pasu district of Kedah, Wayang Kulit is popularized today by Pak Majid. He inherits the skill in playing Wayang Kulit from his father who learned it from a Siamese Tuk Dalang. Today Wayang Kulit in Kedah serves as humorous way of entertaining the people, the plot and themes of the Wayang Kulit performance revolves around villagers daily life with certain messages being conveyed in humorous and comical way. In Kelantan, the plot and themes may be traditional based from old prose and legends or myths. Kelantanese and Kedahan still watching Wayang Kulit although Kelantan banned Wayang Kulit just to show on how proud Kelantanese and Kedahan over traditional culture beside our devotion to Islam. Some elements of Wayang Kulit have to be changed or removed because we do not want our creed toward Allah being deflected but we still maintaining the traditional cultures, it is just they move in correspond to each other.

There is no Islamic State in this world today, so do Malaysia is not an Islamic Country, it is just in the name given like Indonesian being called their country with the largest muslim population while the people is not Islamic at all or Abangan. Kedah, Perlis, Satun, Songkhla, Reman, Yala, Kelantan, Terengganu, Patani, Nakorn Si Thammarat and Northern Perak in Malaysia and Thailand were parts of Langkasuka Kingdom, these places were governed by their own kings who acted as the governers in their area during ancient time. It happened to flourish in the 2nd Century AD and achieve it its glorious development in 4th century AD. I consider myself as a Kedahan the same way Javanese consider themselves according to the land they came from. The same goes to Kelantanese, Patanese, and others. The claim that all of the people are originated from Java is ridiculous but the claim that there are people with Javanese ancestry like Mr. Rais Yatim can be accepted. The ancient historical development in Java Land is not the same as ours, as far as I learned in history classes, ancient history started in Java back then in 1st century AD together with the arrival of Haji Saka. Langkasuka in which is my ancient kingdom started as early as 1st century AD too. Our king's coronation ceremony never use Gamelan, but Nobat and Nafiri.

The Kedah kingship lineage began from a Hindu king whose name Sri Maharaja Derbar Raja 1, this one is written in Palace Record which Tarikh Salasilah Negeri Kedah. The first religion arrived in Kedah and Langkasuka shore in the western part is Hinduism or Brahmanism, not Buddhism. Buddhism accepted as the religion of subjects in 4th century AD. While in Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa suggest that Merong Mahawangsa who began as the king in Kedah and establishing Langkasuka. Sriwijaya kingdom attacked Langkasuka in 7th century, it is written Hikayat Patani written in Jawi script by Patani Palace scribe, Syeikh Daud Al-Fathoni. It means that we have our own history and ancient kingdom. Why everyone loves to be inclusive? Why don't we just appreciate the difference? God created us to know each other and to make friend, not to argue over or fighting with each other.

Indonesian may claim and defend that Barongan, Kuda Kepang, Gamelan or Batik Jawa as Javanese, they really are obvious Javanese. Kelantanese have their style of Batik and it is different from Javanese one. Not all Malays' states in Malaysia are practicing that kind of cultural things. We in Kedah have Jikey, Menora, Ramwong, Mek Mulung, Awang Batil, to name fews. Some of them are Siamese in spirit like Ramwong and some of them are shared together with the South Thais like Menora, while Mek Mulung, Jikey and Awang Batil are originally ours in Kedah and Perlis. For Wayang Kulit, let us say that it is shared, and if it is in fact originated from Java Land so let it be. We in Malaysia have our own style, Java Land have their own style. We do not have Puppet Wayang style in Malaysia, it is only in Java.

Don't over generalize all devout muslims as ignorants like they never read history or trying to erase the ancient past history. I am one among devout muslims yet I never leave traditional culture, I am aware of the history of other ancient kingdoms in Thailand and Cambodia too beside learning the history of Java Land and Sumatera at school although I do not see any relevance for northern Malay to learn Javanese History because we never related to Javanese at the first hand, maybe Majapahit Javanese attacked muslim Malay small kingdoms in Malayan Peninsula, but that is in 14th century.

Javanese are proud of their Javanese things, we Kedahan and Kelantanese too are proud of our religion, culture, language, and history. Please try not to include us into Javanese superiority, you hurt our feeling.

I just filther un-Islamic things in traditional cultural practice, I believe many muslims in Malaysia are trying to do so, maintaining their culture without leaving their obedience toward Allah and prophet (pbuh).

^Haven't you realised yet......all we want is recognition of whats ours...
We're not aboriginals who share everything.....

We never deny that Wayang Kulit is from Java Land. People from Java might be landing in Malayan Peninsula shore in ancient time, of course they practice their culture in the place where they had landed, we can't expect Javanese to practice Chinese culture don't you, and do you expect that Javanese do not have feet to explore other places?

They are Javanese Wayang play called Wayang Purwa in Malaysia, we realize that, why should we say that the Wayang is Indonesian's? I suppose that Indonesia was established in 19th century don't you? Wayang Purwa is originated from Java Land and practiced by Javanese in Malaysia since ancient time, of course some their young generations had became Malaysia's citizen today. I suppose that they too do not wan't to be known as Malay since they are not Malay. The recognition would be reliable if Indonesia name being changed to Java Land, would anyone in Indonesia agree with that name? Why don't Indonesian try to organize tourism promotion and trying to explain about Wayang Kulit in depth beside marketing it abroad. People today are not blind.

We never and can't say that tarian Dayak of Kalimantan is originated from Kuala Lumpur, that would be crazy. The Wayang Kulit play in Kelantan is called Wayang Gelek, it is originated from South Thailand or Patani. It is played by Tuk Dalang in Kelantanese and not Javanese. It is not denied that Javanese introduced Wayang Kulit to other SEA people including the Cambodian. Wayang Kulit in Kedah is called Nang Talung (หนังตะลุง), originated from Southern Thai, to be particular from Trang and Ligor. It is played by Tuk Dalang in Siamese and Kedahan. These Wayang Kulit had evolved to be distinct style apart of Javanese one. I do not either agree too when Malaysian tourism had introduced Wayang Purwa in the advertisement, they should put Wayang Gelek in it.

What about the recognition to India as the source of Ramayana and Mahabharata in Javanese literature? Didn't Javanese too cultivating the works originated from India? Chandi Borobudur too was build by the Shailendras who are the descents of Sriwijaya, it is a Sumateran base kingdom who were accepting Indian culture in the matter of building the Chandi. Try giving recognition to India in the tourism advertisments with the highlight when you introduce about Kekawin in Javanese. Would you say that the idea that had evolved to be distinct things is your own? It is correct to claim about the idea, but the distinct thing is not the same with the thing that come from the original place because it was modified according to local way.

Anyway, what is so humiliating being an Orang Asli (the aborigine), we evolve from them, they are human too and who knows they maybe are civilized more than us in the assumption of being a way too civilized. Javanese may say that World began from Java but according to historians World civilization began from Mesopotamia, it corresponds with the Bibles and Quranic verses in muslim belief world-wide.

Gunungjerai, if you say that the Javanese introduced wayang kulit to the Chams, then it's indeed Javanese origin.... And to the Javanese of Indonesia, we Javanese of Malaysia has every right to claim wayang as ours too. since we are Javanese also

If the Indo govt disapprove of Malaysian claims, I guess Saudi Arabia will sue Libya n Algeria for stealing their culture too

Topik kiye kok wes melaku suwi banget. Tutup whae lah....