If I spoke to a miao people of china, "hey u are hmong but not chinese", what he/she feels?

Happy that you acknowledge their people and culture as not someone that gets bullied by the mainstream. how abc feel if white call him "you are not american"? that happens all the time. hmong are proud and don't want to link to china. We are our own.

First miao and the other chinese enthic keep on intermarry with each other and I think we would become more and more similiar to each other.
Second whether hmong like to relate to china or not, it is ur own choice, no one wants and can to force u to link urselves to china or not. But Miao is chinese people. They are part of China. I think if I told my hmong friend "hey u are not chinese u are hmong" she would be angry at me.

Funny....This thread started with the word Chinese.
If you don't want to be related to something, first you stop talking about it.
and stop relating yourselves to the Miao/Hmong people in China. Even though they keep the most of Miao/Hmong's traditional culture and overwhelmingly maintain the largest Miao/Hmong population in the world.
then I'm very sure you can live as 100% Hmong-American, Hmong-French, Hmong-Canadian, Hmong-Australian...or whatever you like to be. right?

I don't really know why the OP decided to post this here and just leave but yeah....Nobody ever thought we were Chinese. It should be directed to Non-Asians and not to Hmong.

Taking into account of context, of course Hmongs are not Chinese. They are NOT from China but SE Asia.

Chinese is a nationality... not an ethnicity

-edit

The Hmong came from Yunnan province China. I do not classify them as South East Asians for that is not where they were originally from. The Hmong like some have mentioned previously in other current posts, are but a small branch/group from the whole Miao minority in China.
For centuries, the Miao have not only mixed with the Hans, but some other minority groups as well. This is a good reason why today Hmong (counting only those who reside outside china) are mistaken for other races because of their appearances.

I registered on this site just to reply to this post.

I am Shezu by blood. Shezu is related to the Mien branch of the Hmong-Mien family (or, in Pinyin, the Yao branch of the Miao-Yao family).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/She_people
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/nationality/she/

Because of my blood origin, I've always been curious about the Hmong people.

Amongst the She, Mien, and Hmong people, the Hmong people are probably the least sinicised. The She people, on the other hand, are thoroughly sinicised. Only about 1000 She people speak Ho Ne (or Huonie in Pinyin). Everyone else (around 700,000) speak Chinese.

The traditional religion of the She people, like the Yao people, is based on Daoism and shamanism. The most distinctive aspect of She culture is the elaborate traditional headresses She women used to wear.

In my family, there's little left of She culture. Our last name point to our She origin, and we know that we have She blood. Other than that, we're basically Han Chinese. In fact, my family had produced several generations of prominent Chinese nationalists. (I know of several other She families which had produced Chinese nationalists.)

Another thing, I never eat dog meat. The She ancestor, Pan Hu, was a dog, and so eating dogs is forbidden.

Personally, I identify with Zhonghua, the Chinese cultural ideal. I am satisfied that Teochiu culture and Hakka culture both have strong She components. I'm also satisfied that these days Chiyou, along with both Yandi and Huangdi, is considered an ancestor of Zhonghua.

I consider myself Chinese. I'm non-Han, I'm of She ancestry, but I'm Chinese. When westerners ask me what I am, I always say Chinese. When other Chinese people ask me where I'm from, then I tell them that I'm She by ancestry.

This is just a personal perspective. I understand why many Hmong people outside of China don't consider themselves Chinese.

where people come from? don't say Hmong come from where and Chinese come from where.

"Archaeological evidence suggests that the earliest hominids in China date from 250,000 to 2.24 million years ago"

its obvious people have been in china for a lot longer then chinese/hmong/viet etc

spare us the sob story and quit trying to stir nationalistic feelings.

have you been to China? the term "Chinese" refers to nationality, not an ethnic label.
China has many minorities who are happy and living their lives peacefully.

i have a few Hmong friends whom i grew up with in China and still kept in contact with after my family moved.

We're not Chinese. We're not Han, so we're not ethnic "Chinese". We have been out of China before there was a China so we can't claim to be Chinese nationals either. It only makes sense. Only the Miao in China today can claim to be Chinese by nationality.

First I would like to apologize if I say anything wrong.

I like to browse Hmong section from time to time.
Happened to read this.

I think Hmong people are Chinese, because the ancestral homeland is in China, and also China contains the reservoir of the most Hmong people.

Of course, I am not referring to citizenship / country identity.
I am referring to cultural and heritage identity.

So even if your grandchildren in the future is born in some country (x y or z) they will forever be Chinese.

First I want to clarify that being Chinese doesn't equal to being member of Han group.

The Han group's homeland is in China, so that makes them Chinese. The Hmong group, or whatever X Y Z group's homeland which is in China, makes them Chinese.

In my understanding Hmong people are Chinese because their ancestral root and reservoir is in China. So the cultural identity is Chinese. Not Han Chinese but Hmong Chinese, and this is culturally speaking, not from citizenship point of view.

good point. I actually don't have an irrational reaction when someone may think that I (as a hmong person) is chinese. I positively think that's a very recognizable way of making a relation in some way, also an acknowledgment on that person's part. I can respect that. it is clearly logical that's what hmongs are (in your take, chinese) pertaining to origins and not to overstate or understate the term chinese either.

I have to agree regarding the relationship between Hmong/Miao people and Wuyue Han Chinese people. The Modern Wu Chinese language, spoken in the Wuyue part of Jiangnan, has a strong Hmong/Miao substrate, and the local culture has more aspects of Hmong-Mien, Tai-Kadai and Baiyue culture than other Hua/Han cultures (even today!).

As for Viet people, I disagree. Viets are more closely related to Khmers than Yue people. There's been a study debunking the 'Kinh Vietnamese are Yue' theory. The notion of the Kinh ethnic group (ancestors of modern Viets) did not enter Chinese records until the early 6th century, the Lac Viet/Luo Yue were assimilated into the Han or already extinct by then. Plus, the Yue was an umbrella term for southern 'barbarian' indigenous peoples of southern China.

Hmong certainly aren't Han exactly, they may have shared some common ancestry in the past. So I believe that they are Chinese in that they've played a role in Chinese history.

There is no such kind of things or a group people called Wuyue.
Talk about local culture. Very obviously u have never been to Jiangnan before.


Yue is not an enthic concept, but a group of people or in another word Yue equal to SEAs.


The concept of chinese first appearred in Zhou dynasty. And all human being share the same ancestors.

Talk about stereotyping here. It's more of a linguistic umbrella term used by linguists. And you generalize too much. And I wouldn't divulge how often I visited Jiangnan.
Of course all Min-speaking peoples are not a group by themselves. A Teochew would seethe in rage if he were to be called a Hokkien, even though they both share the same ancestors.


The fact of the matter is, the Kinh people/Jing people were never Yue. Yue is a term to refer to indigenous peoples in southern china, not southeast Asia. But the scientists' definition of Yue is Tai-Kradai people.


True, but the concept of ethnicity isn't as clear cut as you think. And people often split into or join up into ethnic groups or 'rough cultural groupings'. It just happens that way.

Sure you don't see things as I would, but I'm more of guy who searches into academic journals for some good stuff on the latest researching trends. I'm sure that you are contradicting yourself, how can you claim that people are 'different' from one another not to be the same when you claim that all people share the same ancestors?

He's making a desperate move even at the expense of contradicting himself.

It's literally a paradox here. I don't think he even understands English, to be honest here. Just to prove what? That he's right and I'm wrong, in which the only cost is being a hypocrite? (I'd think that he's using a dictionary to translate what I'm saying here.)

Hmong live in the mountainous regions of Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Burma. They are one of the sub-groups of the Miao tribe in southern part of China. So there are some Hmongs who hold Chinese passports.

wow for somebody from Africa you sure know alot about the history of hmongs in China

Well, He's interested in Asian culture and probably is a living encyclopedia.

wala there is no rocket science here. World is a global village. So do you mean that Africans are not entitled to knowing all these??

i agree with you. miaos definitely are chinese, and they regard themselves as so. but hmong people here were probably born and raised in america and their parents came from cambodia, vietnam. therefore they are often mixed, no longer as pure as the miaos in china. they are not full chinese. at best they can claim to be part chinese.

What is "full chinese" ??

I dont think so.

Very few inter-racial / inter-ethnic marriages actually take place.

The majority of them are not mixed.

But the reason why "some" of them seem to reject it and become confused, is because they are not aware of the history properly, and you see there are some who have strange and weird ideas and even think they are SEA people (falsely) like a couple of members here.

But we are according through nationality.

Its absolutely wrong to say that Hmong are not chinese. People have intermarried and also there are a big number of Hmongs in China mountainious regions of southern China.

We are aware of our histotry. Of course, almost every SEA nationality/ethnicity came from China and so you can't use heritage and origin to define a group.

We are SEAsians that's because our parents are from SEA (Laos, Vietnam, Thailand); and their parents had been living there before them too.

Just look at the Chinese Thai in Thailand. They identify themselve as Thai instead of Han. Therefore, they are also part of the SEA Thai identity. Same thing here, we're the

descendents of a group that've been in laos for at least 3 generations and that makes us SEA. One cannot claim to be an American if one was never in America. >__<

It is absolutely wrong to say not all Hmong are Chinese. It should just be acknowledged that all Hmong ancestry goes back to China.

china buffet

lol... seriously i do think we are part of china so we have to also be chinese. chinese doesn't mean Han. Chinese are a unifed of 56 different ethinicities. duh!!

here is a video to show the people who didn't know this here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUrLAFXAB3k...feature=related

this is alittle off topic too but Vietnam too is multicutural and is made up of different ethnicities and here is the video for all that who does not know or just wants to see here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9cFlqIZt3I...feature=related

After all these years, I've finally come to grasp that we are Chinese. We are Mongoloid facial features. Our origins are Northern China. We are just an ethnic minority of the greater chinese people. Kinda how Germany/Europe used to have hundreds of principalities during the middle ages. But I guess staunch Hmong nationalism is due for. But unless we have a country we are still considered Chinese. I don't feel bad if so many Hmong stars out there claim to be something else, like Brenda Song etc..


Stop the hatin' Chinese people or to be more exact the Hans. When you truly understand the other 50-some minority groups in China and other groups who are farther, like Japanese or Filipino, you realize we are the same race, Humans.

damn this thread is old but here's my two cents, hmong americans r of hmong lineage from laos we've been there for hundreds of years producing many generations yes we have mix people in our ethnicity but not a big population of that, the reason we don't recognize ourselves as chinese is because we identify our hmong groups as direct lineage of hmong lao because all hmong in different regions and countries r slightly different in accents, dialects, language, customs, clothings, traditions and influences, even in laos we have maybe over 10 different subgroups of hmongs and we recognize ourselves uniquely different from other hmongs be it hmongs from burma, china, vietnam, thailand, cambodia or wherever we r all the same but we acknowledge our subgroups, we may have originated from china but that's like saying were all africans

true, the Hmongs from SEA have a whole different identity they are well established in SEA society down in Laos, Vietnam, Burma, etc,

since there has been lots of mixing with other groups , most of the Hmong originating from Laos are in a different category

so r u miao chines?

I agree, our status as nationals is that we're related to Hmong of Lao and Thailand's national minorities... but as far as the Africa-China comparison, that's a bit far off haha. We haven't even been in SE Asia for 500 years. Our elders may have forgotten but historical accounts from China, SE Asia and Westerners say barely 300 years, even 200 years. Many words in our language are still partially Mandarin and that language only started spreading around to certain parts of China in the past 800 years or so. I recall recently seeing Yang Geli's performance. He's a Miao(Phoj) performer from Guizhou and they said that he picked up our dialect so quickly (2 months) because some words we had were similar to their dialect but the majority was that we a lot of Mandarin....so we can still feel a belonging to China too. I would assume even Chinese who know their history of ethnic minorities would not disagree. Some of us have elders that can still recall seeing and knowing their first ancestors that arrived from China. We're directly related to the Hmong of Wenshan in Yunnan or as we call it "Paj Tawg Lag".

But yeah, as nationals...we're not Chinese...we're not even Zhong Guo Ren lol.

delete

i feel being related to chinese is totally out of question even for our ethnic group being related to the han chinese we still have such a uniquely different look and culture but yes i exaggerated the african part but seriously we never recognize ourselves to even be their culture, but like i said nationally and ethnically we feel better lumped with lao then chines because really though hmong lao marked our own lifestyle that totally sets us apart from other miao groups we set ourselves and pres eve ourselves as sumthing uniquely our own, yet still hmong but not chinese

the USA has only been around for a little over 200 years [1776 - 2011] 235 years to be exact and look at how much has changed in such a short time

most Americans cant even trace back their roots or dont really have any connection with where they originally came from either, too much mixing and migration, lots of changes in the last 200 years, most blacks that have African ancestory dont have any idea who or what tribe they are from, people of Africa dont even consider black americans as "Africans"

I'm just saying our ancestral lands are inside what is today China. As far as relating to other cultures, we can kinda relate to Laos/Thais because of our elders' birthplace..but I don't think too many Hmong realize how close we are still connected to those in China as well..not to mention the influence of our time in China that is still with us..in our language, mindset and culture. 200 years of our history is in SE Asia, 4000+ years of our history in in what is today China.



Yeap, so we're trying not to forget where we come from while we still can remember

Who said we're Chinese? LOL..
If you're talking about nationality, yes, those living in China would be Chinese.

Since my parents are from Laos, I'm considered Laotion, Hmong-Lao-American to be exact!

But.. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Hmong have some Han in them.

Despite whatever should you think today,
Not necessarily direct against every individual as of today, the Miao people, AKA, one of the dongyi tribes before Qin dynasty and the Hans are related by blood that come along with Qiang/Yi/Tibetan/even Bamar

Our ancestors came up from SEA and went up to today's NW of China that's about 20000-40000 years ago and then spread out onto various directions
It's scientifically/genetically/academically proven.

The differences in looks are the result of amalgamation of natives, however, Miao/Qiang/Tibetan/Yi in China look almost perfect Han. So peace, bro, 兄弟合心,其利断金

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