This is what we get for cooperating to find their soldiers. I knew we should have just given them one body at a time but nooooo everyone at that time said to trust the U.S and play nice with them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0...4328959,00.html

I say it's about time that the US is putting some pressure on the VC regime. I don't like my tax money goes into helping those corrupted commies stay in power.

My favourite part.



fu-king unbelivable. lol Yes they might cancel the money that was supposed to get rid of the land mines from the war THEY STARTED.

lol the U.S is like the fu-king mafia here. They basically go in and beat you up, and then you have to listen to them or else they won't pay for the hospital bills to treat the injuries you just suffered from.

Hhahaah, yea sooo funny, Have you guys seen F 911? .. Damn Yankee

If I know the Vietnamese government they'll just find some trick to get around this. Probably pretend to show that their prisoners are free or something.

But the US's condition for withholding aid is to improve human rights. Isn't that something the communist government should be doing anyway?? Gee, how awful the US is for demanding the govt treat its people better.

Seriously, some of you guys need to start separating yourselves from the Vietnamese govt. Your loyalty should not lie with your government, it should lie with your PEOPLE. If this sanction results in more personal rights for the people, then it's a victory for Viet Nam.

Start thinking of the bigger picture!

Now why does that sound so familiar?

i know that it bull$hit that we got to listing to the US.
but look on the good side if we become a democracy our economy is gonna go up with mean our people will have a better life plus the war between the red flag(the people in the vietnam gov.) and the yellow flag(vietnamese in other country) will be over and we all can have more right, better life and we all be united under one goal, to make a better future for all of us to live in.

Byron, you're a moron. Plain and simple.

this is typical yankee pig behaviour. fu-k the americans. all viets should hate america.

I hope the communist government gives in... it'll be better for the people (more aid and human rights).



its people like these who would love to put Saddam Hussein back in power

Nicely said.

Not like they're making us to do something awful to our people, they asked us to treat our citizens better. Find one thing wrong with that? It was told by an American, so it's bad?

I say more human right for Vietnam, and if Vietnam want better relation with the U.S., which it should, then they better do a better job to reduce corruption, no one going to invest in your country if it's full of corruptions.

Warning Given For Flaming Byron.

Ah well it's about time the US and other donors put some sort of pressure on the regime to clean up their act and improve freedom and human rights.

lol I wouldn't mind if they did treat their people better, but I know they won't, and they'll either just accept this sanction just to maintain more power, or they'll find some way around it, so in the end it's really just a hassle that will just slow the economic development of Vietnam.

It's a pity that the Viet Government does not have the power to call for a World's General Boycott of USA (anyway, there's an unofficial but actual moral boycott for the next 30 years). Throw them the stingy $10m for Aids in the face.

Other nations help more, really help (no commercial thinking), and permanently, without making such a fuss.

Pretending good will, paying (?) one cheap publicity, and talk forever?
(one small sum, plus all cameras, focus, same unchanging Hollywood techniques)

Vừa đánh trống vừa ăn cướp
Vừa giết người vừa cướp của, vừa giựt tiền vừa làm đạo đức giả.

USA is the one Bloodiest (proper sens) example of "Democracy" and "Moralists" of the World.
Boring and despising. Shame of Humanity.

There are things money will never buy.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/index.html
1. The USA is the world's biggest giver...
2. ... and the stingiest
The USA is only the worlds' biggest givern because it is rich. In terms of generosity and altruism, the USA is the most stingy and self-interested giver in the developed world:
"[Americans] are regularly told by politicians and the media, that America is the world's most generous nation. This is one of the most conventional pieces of 'knowledgable ignorance'. According to the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the US gave between $6 and $15 billion in foreign aid in the period between 1995 and 1999. In absolute terms, Japan gives more than the US, between $9 and $15 billion in the same period. But the absolute figures are less significant than the proportion of gross domestic product (GDP, or national wealth) that a country devotes to foreign aid. On that league table, the US ranks twenty-second of the 22 most developed nations. As former President Jimmy Carter commented: 'We are the stingiest nation of all'. Denmark is top of the table, giving 1.01% of GDP, while the US manages just 0.1%. The United Nations has long established the target of 0.7% GDP for development assistance, although only four countries actually achieve this: Denmark, 1.01%; Norway, 0.91%; the Netherlands, 0.79%; Sweden, 0.7%. Apart from being the least generous nation, the US is highly selective in who receives its aid. Over 50% of its aid budget is spent on middle-income countries in the Middle East, with Israel being the recipient of the largest single share"
"Why do people hate America?" by Ziauddin Sardar and Merryl Wyn Davies, 2002. p79
Not only that, but according to one source cited by Sarder & Davies, 80% of that aid itself actually goes to American companies in those foreign countries.

Probably, all the stingy "Aids" go to warfare.

I wonder if Bush or Kerry will exerise their veto power..? *hmm

Yup..
Have you heard the news where officials would sell drugs publicly :o

WTF!! In what parallel universe did the US start the Vietnam War? This decision was made by the “Evil US” in the hopes that by threatening fewer funds the Communist government would give in and treat the Vietnamese people better!! What is so wrong with that?

Open your eyes!
:genius: :genius: :genius:

Yes yes yes, you're right the U.S didn't start the Vietnam War. Vietnam started it by launching attacks and bombing Pearl Harbour right???

Yet another reason to hate the US. :genius:

I'm so glad I don't live in the U.S.

Haha, yes, me too.

Pearl Harbor?????

What in the world is wrong with you!?

Can you post intelligently?

You do know I was being sarcastic right? Ok tell me how did North Vietnam start the Vietnam War then?

By invading a liberated south Vietnam years before the US ever set foot there with military forces.

lol no. Vietminh defeated the French in hopes of making ALL of Vietnam independant, well the Geneva conventions splitted the country in 2.

Where all those who followed the Vietminh were to go up North and all those who followed the French would go South.

There were supposed to be elections to vote for which government should rule ove a unified Vietnam.

But the U.S didn't agree to those elections afterwards and put a U.S puppet into power for South Vietnam.

MOST Vietnamese supported the Vietminh and the U.S knew that if elections were gonna happen then they the Vietminh would probably win.

So if anything the U.S started it by lying about the elections, and if the elections were allowed to take place then there would be no Vietnam War.

U.S and Diem both knew they would lose the vote if the Vietnamese people were allowed to Vote.

How's that for democracy, U.S style?

Uhm there are also a lot of people who joined Vietminh to defeat the French also came back to the South, such as one of the most famous Vietnamese songwriter: Pham Duy. There were also waves of highly-educated Northerners who moved to Saigon in 1945 and 1954. Many of them also joined South Vietnam goverment, like Nguyen Cao Ky... but I hate him though.

I don’t think you and I will come to a concession on that issue any time soon. So as not to waist your time and my time lets just be adults…agree to disagree…and drop the subject.

I can agree though that during the French occupation the US made some stupid errors in not supporting Uncle Ho in his revolution. If we had supported him from the beginning he would not of had to turn to Communist Russia for assistance and the US urgency to stop the domino effect would never have had to take place.

No matter what YOUR interpretation of the events are, Vietnam would be far better off now if the U.S. succeeded in fending off the North. Your arguments contain nothing but weak assumptions. Fact: United States succeeded in fending off North Korea, and now look at South Korea; they're a world economic power. What about Japan? What did U.S. intervention lead to? Where are the Honda, Sony, Hitachi corporations of Vietnam?? The country of Vietnam and Korea are classic examples of what could have happened, and what is happening. End of discussion.

Yes Japan and South Korea are doing very well, American troops going all rampant and raping school girls in the bases.

While Japanese and South Koreans getting killed in Iraq because they have to support their ally or master the U.S.A.

Hey Vietnam is poor right now but at least there is a chance it will be very prosperous and surpass most other SEA countries in economic wealth by 2020 and you know what they did it on their own.

Vietnam may be a $hit hole but at least it's OUR $hit hole and it doesn't belong to the U.S or anything.

ECONOMIES CAN BE REBUILT BUT NATIONAL PRIDE AND KNOWING THAT A VIETNAMESE IS THE ONE RUNNING VIETNAM IS MORE PRECIOUS.

YEARS FROM NOW VIETNAMESE PARENTS WILL TELL THEIR KIDS HOW THEY WERE THE ONLY COUNTRY TO DEFEAT THE U.S AND OTHER TALES OF VIETAMESE MILITARY HISTORY. CAN MONEY BUY THAT?

Vietnam is getting rich and when it does(I hope) it will be by our own efforts, not American ones.

SO YOUR WILLING TO SACRIFICE NATIONAL PRIDE AND HONOR JUST FOR A FEW MEASLY BUCKS IN ADVANCE RATHER THAN WAITING A FEW YEARS AND GETTING THE MONEY ON YOUR OWN AND HAVING NATIONAL PRIDE AND HONOR?

LOOK AT ALL THOSE AMERICAN GENERALS WHO SAY THE NVA ARE ONE OF THE MOST TOUGHEST OPPONENTS THEY HAVE EVER FOUGHT. OR THE INSPIRATION WE HAVE GIVEN TO OTHER 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BEEN OPPRESSED THAT IF THEY GIVE IT THEIR ALL THERE IS A HOPE THEY MIGHT OVERCOME THE ODDS AND DEFEAT A TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCE OPPRESSOR.

SCREW YOUR MONEY, I SPIT ON IT. WHAT GOOD IS MONEY? HOW LONG WILL IT LAST FOR? WHEN YOUR DEAD WILL YOU GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MONEY? BUT HONOR LASTS FOR GENERATIONS TO COME.

LONG LIVE VIETNAM!!!

In "a few years" as you said, we have to stoop to the place where parents would sell their children into Cambodian brothels, living in very unhealthy neighborhoods, children joining gangs, seeing officials getting rich by rip-off poor citizens, people knowing more about Chinese history than Vietnamese due to over-exposure of Chinese dramas and movies, people who yearn every moments to get out of the country.

Of course there are a lot of Vietnamese who are proud of their heritage, but there are also tons of Vietnamese teenagers who ARE NOT AT ALL proud of their cultures and histories.

National pride can also be rebuilt like South Korean people proud of their economy and culture, even though their history was as much tragic as Vietnam.

Compare nationalism now between a Vietnamese living in Vietnam and a South Korean living in South Korea. Who do you think will have more?

It's not just the USA who made Vietnam poor, the big part was also about the communist goverment who recently just realize that they need to reform their government by copied exactly what China did in the 70-80s.

Parents that would sell their kids like that were bad in the first place. Even if I had no money period I would never stoop that low.

Such a typical response. It's obvious that you're so high strung on VIETNAM, that you're too blind to realize that we live in a world economy now. It's that very mindset that Vietnam is still a third world country now, almost 30 years after the end of the war. They've only recently started making money by realizing that they can't go at it alone, something they should have and could have done decades ago if they had not put their big egos ahead of their own country. Opportunities foregone and lost forever only to play catch up now.

Well maybe because you haven't lived a life like that.

'a frog in a well cannot speak of the sea’

Dude there are some things people would not do no matter how bad things got. If it did then most people in Vietnam would be pimping their children right now.

Again, you speak from assumption.

I really think you need a trip to Vietnam before saying anything about life and what kind of people there are. :genius:

Dude are you 100% sure Vietnam would be like Japan or South Korea? Hell Vietnam might end like the Phillipines for all we know. You can't use What Ifs as a justification for your arguments.

Agreed. He and people like him are blind patriots who cares more bout their corrupt govt. than their people. He also doesn't know how to correctly intrepret the article.

It said that the 40 million in aid will be capped, which means that the US will still give 40 millions but will not increase the amount of aid until Vietnam improves on human rights. The US is trying to put pressure on Vietnam to change for the better. This is somehow bad?
Commies never change.

1. The Vietminh was not a communist organization, they didn't want to get of the French to install a communist government, it was just Ho and his followers.

2. If the Ho's North regime was so great and popular, why did a lot of Northerner migrate south in 1954 when the country was officially divided?

3. No one knows the outcome if the election did occurred.

I agree with you that parents that sell their kids aren't good to begin with. They are uneducated and have little morality and ethic, but that's because the government didn't provide them with enough education. The gov't pocketed all the money, or they spent it on propagandas to glorify their wonderful leader and party.

You are always so proud that we defeated the Americans. But look what happened after we defeated the Americans. And look at those countries that didn't defeat the Americans (Japan, Germany). While Germany and Japan enjoy having amongst the best economy in the world, what has Vietnam got, what has North Korea got?

There's nothing to be proud of about the Vietnam War. It wasn't a war to keep out invaders, it was a war between two brothers choosing which superpower to follow. The one that made the wrong decision won, and now we all have to pay for it together.

There are a few cases of U.S. soldiers' misconducts in Korea and Japan. They rape a few girls and you compared that to Vietnam, where hundreds of girls have to be shipping and raped by foreigners? Man, at time like this I rather share my piece of $hit with someone else and work together, than to keep the piece of $hit all to myself.

Incorrect. There are more than "a few" cases of rape by these americans in japan. Even more cases of violence and destruction of public property. Get it right next time.

Tell me what's the number then, if it's not "few."

Of rapes? From 2002 I would say 100 or more. Not including other crimes against the japanese people. Just rape.

Me too. I'm very glad you don't live in the US.



What's the number for Japanese on Japanese crimes? Probably like thousands. Whenever you have people mingling there's going to be bad apples. Your guess that like 100 or more rape cases occur is soooo accurate. Please, show some data and a credible source before you start spewing out numbers.

You all hate us because you can't be us

Calm down y'all !!!

You guys are playing game theory with the zero sum outcome tug-of-war. But in actuality, there are pros and cons to every outcome.

If
A) If the US & South Vietnam was able to fend off the North Vietnam,
will we be the likes of South Korea or Japan ? if we are, then
PROS:
- democracy for the south (only)
- better economy/wealth/etc..? (South only)
?? what about democracy for the north, and what about the wealth
(aren't the north people and south people are all Vietnamese ?)

CONS:
- a divided Vietnam just like Korean (what happen to those blood of our
ancestors that shed over the span of thousands of years to keep Vietnam
united and independence). Look at the North Korean and South Korean.
There are essentially two different countries that separate by DMZ, political
ideology, etc... that is technically two different countries!? yes ? no?
- Vietnam will be paying $$$ for the US military present just like the South
Korean and Japan. It's no free picnic!!

B) North Vietnam won as is. The unified Vietnam under the current regime
PROS:
- unified Vietnam
- proud
CONS:
- oppressive regime
- poor


... the list can go on either way (too tire to digress) ...too many 'what ifs'
...what about the future??

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And SORRY I could not travel both ...

So basically that road is already taken. You cannot go back to the road NOT taken. You can only try to make the best out of it!!!

Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

So the question now is: Damn it! what the hell do you guys want ???

Lighten up guys!!

^ I agree

It's a sad sad day for any parent to even have the slightest hint of this thought, despite circumstances

Japanese crimes against japanese? Or are you playing the wwtwo card again? If thats the case the war has been over for fifty years and it is now america that is the bad guy. Now as for japanese commiting crimes against each other that is a domestic issue. Not a foreigne power coming into your country and commiting these acts. Actually it was not a simple guess. I saw statistic previously.

i agreed

it possible to learn from the past but unnessery to live in it

so y r we fighting each other we all viet. if we fight, there would only be died vietnamese around (more blood=more hatry=separation)