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swingdoctor
QUOTE(Protoculture @ Jun 11 2007, 10:58 PM) [snapback]2998557[/snapback]
That is state definition. Even PAS challenged that, saying Islam is not exclusive to Malays only, but other races too. (I agreed with PAS on this)

But then, that's a leftover legacy from colonial era. Something even the current Administration never bothered to change.

Sigh ....

The constitution does not say that only Malays can be Muslim. Neither as far as I can find, does the constitution say that Malays can't be of another religion.
Protoculture
QUOTE
Neither as far as I can find, does the constitution say that Malays can't be of another religion.


Do your research bub ... From Article 160 (2):

"Malay" means a person who professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language, conforms to Malay custom "

Eat your heart out ...



swingdoctor
QUOTE(Protoculture @ Sep 2 2007, 08:26 AM) [snapback]3181659[/snapback]
Do your research bub ... From Article 160 (2):

"Malay" means a person who professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language, conforms to Malay custom "

Eat your heart out ...

No this is defining of who a "Malay" person is in the constitution. So if a Malay person changes his/her religion, they won't be granted the special priveliges of a "Malay" person protected under the constitution, but it won't change their ethnicity, it can't.

From a legal point of view, a "Malay" person needs to be defined otherwise anyone can call themselves a "Malay".
Protoculture
QUOTE(swingdoctor @ Sep 2 2007, 06:25 PM) [snapback]3182465[/snapback]
No this is defining of who a "Malay" person is in the constitution. So if a Malay person changes his/her religion, they won't be granted the special priveliges of a "Malay" person protected under the constitution, but it won't change their ethnicity, it can't.

From a legal point of view, a "Malay" person needs to be defined otherwise anyone can call themselves a "Malay".


Yes, it won't change their real ethnicity, but within the Constitution context, they actually did lose the title Malay.

These Malay sucker apostates will be the ones complaining losing their entitled Bumiputra rights, as if we givva fart to 'em ...
swingdoctor
QUOTE(Protoculture @ Sep 2 2007, 11:41 PM) [snapback]3183286[/snapback]
Yes, it won't change their real ethnicity, but within the Constitution context, they actually did lose the title Malay.

These Malay sucker apostates will be the ones complaining losing their entitled Bumiputra rights, as if we givva fart to 'em ...

Yes but they may see thir right to practice the religion of their choice as being more important then their Bumiputera status.

As long as I've known you, you come across as someone very staunch in your belief of Islam. Hypothetically if I said to you, Protoculture that you can either practice Isam or preserve your Bumi status, which would you choose? Your religion I would expect, as would most people. Choice of religion to most people is more important then materialistic things.
kimyee73
QUOTE(Protoculture @ Sep 2 2007, 09:26 PM) [snapback]3181659[/snapback]
Do your research bub ... From Article 160 (2):

"Malay" means a person who professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language, conforms to Malay custom "

Eat your heart out ...

Looks like anyone can be a Malay, even for a Chinese. Just need to convert to Islam, speaks Malay language and practice Malay custom. You would call them Chinese-Malay biggthumpup.gif . It is kind of dilute the meaning for being a Malay though.
Betong
^ There is no such thing for Chinese Malays or anything right now. All those practice have been demolished.
kimyee73
QUOTE(Betong @ Sep 6 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]3190148[/snapback]
^ There is no such thing for Chinese Malays or anything right now. All those practice have been demolished.

You meant previously there was Chinese-Malay and now there wasn't any or you meant there is double standard when it involved Chinese? I'm just expanding on what was posted by Protoculture in another thread, I quoted below. If you can have Indian, Yemeni or Turkish lineage as Malay, why not a Chinese that has gone thru the same assimilation process?

QUOTE(Protoculture @ Sep 4 2007, 12:06 PM) [snapback]3185492[/snapback]
Because simply:

"Malaysian citizen who professes to be a Muslim, habitually speaks the Malay language, adheres to Malay customs"

In case you may forget, Tun Dr. Mahathir Muhammad is of Muslim Mamak lineage, his dad is a Muslim Malabari Indian, while his mom a Malay.

One more thing, our Minister od Foreign Affairs, Syed Hamid Albar is of Yemeni Arab-Malay lineage, & he is considered a Malay.

Ohhh, the founding father of UMNO, Datuk Onn Jaafar, is of Turkish-Malay lineage.

One more thing, Muslim Mamak & Muslim Arab-Malay descendants in Malaysia are already assimilated into Malay culture.

Remember, Islam & Malay in Malaysia is inseparable. It is a single identity.

That's why there's the phrase, "Masuk Islam = Masuk Melayu".

Its cultural thing is Malaysia.

Protoculture
QUOTE
As long as I've known you, you come across as someone very staunch in your belief of Islam. Hypothetically if I said to you, Protoculture that you can either practice Isam or preserve your Bumi status, which would you choose? Your religion I would expect, as would most people. Choice of religion to most people is more important then materialistic things.


Well, there you are wrong. Both the religion & Bumi status are important to me. Because, I grow up as a Muslim, within Malay culture & identity.

Of course, at the end I'd choose Islam, but I won't ditch my Malay culture values. Simple reason, thanks to 600 years of systematic assimilation, Malay cultures are abounds with Islamic values.

A Malay Adat (Tradition) is crafted from Islamic Adhab. As such, to separate such things in my own personal experience, simply abhorrable.
Protoculture
QUOTE
Looks like anyone can be a Malay, even for a Chinese. Just need to convert to Islam, speaks Malay language and practice Malay custom. You would call them Chinese-Malay . It is kind of dilute the meaning for being a Malay though


A Chinese / Indian / Iban / Kadazan kids raised in Muslim-Malay household & grow up as a Muslim & relatively within Malay culture, will become naturalised & assimilated Malays.

These cases happens quite a lot in 1960s to mid 1980s. These cases happens when poor non-Malays had to give up their kids to malay families because of poverty. The kid will grow as Muslim & of course, become assimilated Malay in the process.
Protoculture
QUOTE
^ There is no such thing for Chinese Malays or anything right now. All those practice have been demolished.


Yes there is. We called them as 'politically-correct' term 'adopted / assimilated' Malays .... or Malays in short.

Of course, nowadays, the new crop of Sino-Malay will be known as half-Bumi status.
Protoculture
QUOTE
If you can have Indian, Yemeni or Turkish lineage as Malay, why not a Chinese that has gone thru the same assimilation process?


BTW, Pak Lah's has Sino-Malay lineage .... while his late deceased wife, Datin Sri Endon of Japanese Malay lineage.

Muslim Malays in Malaysia are practically quite diluted now ....
swingdoctor
QUOTE(Protoculture @ Sep 6 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]3191128[/snapback]
Well, there you are wrong. Both the religion & Bumi status are important to me. Because, I grow up as a Muslim, within Malay culture & identity.

Of course, at the end I'd choose Islam, but I won't ditch my Malay culture values. Simple reason, thanks to 600 years of systematic assimilation, Malay cultures are abounds with Islamic values.

A Malay Adat (Tradition) is crafted from Islamic Adhab. As such, to separate such things in my own personal experience, simply abhorrable.

Well be thankful then that you have not been put in a position to choose, but your Bumis status has nothing to do with your culture. Even if you theoratically convert to another religion and the constitution no longer recognises you as a Bumi, you will still inherently and ethinically be Malay. No matter what the constitution or the law recognises you as, they cannot change the fact that you will always be ethnically Malay, no matter what religion you practice or which country you live in.

There are other religions besides Islam whose practitioners are just as passionate about their religion. In terms of Malay culture being abound with Islamic values, Malay culture and Islam aren't unique in this situation. Alot of western cuture is also religious based. But like you there are people who are willing to give up material benefits for the right to practice the religion of their choice. You need to understand that as there are Muslims who are very passionate about Islam there are also practioners of other faiths who are just as passionate about thier religions.
MutiaraTimur
QUOTE(Malay_guy @ May 30 2007, 01:17 PM) [snapback]2972746[/snapback]
for thousand times, i agree that people of different races should receive equal treatment in this country. but in religious matter, We will not tolerate the expansion of religions other then Islam. the followers may practice their religion freely, and they may adopt their own court of law iin the case that doesn't involve muslims.

How could a freedom of religion correspond with the technological achievement? You look back in history, Muslims have a remakable achievement in the field of science and technology and they are far more notoriously islamic then what you have in malaysia today. the problem is with you western "free thinkers" is that when you close, you close everythings without exception. and when you open, you open everythings. this correspond with the medieval europe when knowledge other then what the church teach is forbidden (close everything) and when westerners reach the age of enlightment, they adopt free thinking, to much if i may say (open everything). in Islam, we regulate which door to open and which door to close. we do not forbid knowledge, instead we encourage it. but we don't tolerate any god other then Allah.

If there's a problem in malaysian achievement, it's the peoples fault, not Islam. Islam has proven itself to be a religion of progress. that's why we have a word Algebra, Alchemy, alembic and so on. It is Islam who change the Arabs froman uncivilized nomadic tribe into one of the greatest civilization in history. and i may say it was Islam in Andalusia and Sicily that pull Europe out of the dark age and into the era of great civilization, not christian.


Wake up my Muslim friends! I am here as a Kefir to wake up you all Muslim that remind you the glory of Islamic has been pass. The world always changing on day by day and you all Muslims are still but-of-date minded. You know why the Communism Ideology in China still can survive in the globalization? Compare the other communism country always fail? The Communism Ideology in China always keeps in up-date by time to time. Most in the public articles, I noticed that the Muslims worried of the Jewish and America to destroy their civilization. The Muslims still blur! In the fact, the Muslims should worry the Muslim on self. The Muslim on self will destroy the Islamic! May be like Maya Civilization? The Jewish and America no needed to do anything and they just watching, because what? Again the same answer, the Muslims on self are destroying their own faith!
fargowin
Isn't a shame to call it Islamic when the entire Umno regime is corrupted to the core and acts with impunity as though there is no God.

I would say Kelantan is more Islamic than the entire Umno regime.

This Umno regime violates every single injunction of God.
coolooc
The erosion of Umno leadership credibility has become more apparent after the two historic rallies by Bersih and Hindraf. The impact of these two mammoth peaceful rallies by the Malaysian public, despite draconian and barbaric threats by the Umno-regulated police force, clearly indicates the progressive degeneration of Umno and its effeminate coalition member parties.

Shocked and dumbfounded, the arrogant Umno leaders whose minds are obscured by political egocentrism, did not know what struck them. It is just the beginning. Justice and fairness cannot be contained by mortal power forever.

These are the definite signs of Umno impending fall and decline. Umno is not challenged by Malaysians alone. The entire fair-minded and civilised world has joined in to expose its political crimes committed in the guise of democracy. The power of truth is fast devastating Umno and its coalition partners.

We thank God for letting this happen. Umno's heydays are numbered. It is getting weaker and becoming more of a parasite than a respected political party with genuine dignity. At last, the road map for the corrupt Umno's final collapse has been charted. The people, propelled by the power of truth, has finally decided to rid the nation of a party that has forsaken its duty to safeguard the interests of the people.

May God bless the people of Malaysia for their great spirit in upholding truth, justice and fairness. Let us Malaysians, irrespective of race or creed, bring greatness to our beloved nation.
Protoculture
QUOTE
Wake up my Muslim friends! I am here as a Kefir to wake up you all Muslim that remind you the glory of Islamic has been pass. The world always changing on day by day and you all Muslims are still but-of-date minded. You know why the Communism Ideology in China still can survive in the globalization? Compare the other communism country always fail? The Communism Ideology in China always keeps in up-date by time to time. Most in the public articles, I noticed that the Muslims worried of the Jewish and America to destroy their civilization. The Muslims still blur! In the fact, the Muslims should worry the Muslim on self. The Muslim on self will destroy the Islamic! May be like Maya Civilization? The Jewish and America no needed to do anything and they just watching, because what? Again the same answer, the Muslims on self are destroying their own faith!


Claiming yourself as Infidel .... odd ....

Th Muslims as an Ummah have yet to unite, because we're so diverse, politically, socially, culturally, its almost an impossible task, but achievable. However, given poverty, 3rd world mentality & illiteracy that still plagued other Muslim nations, one cannot always be optimistic.

The PRC commies ain't Commie anymore. Only the Cubans are. PRC Commie nowadays flouted Mao & Karl Marx ideologies. The PRC Commies today are nothing more that capitalists opportunist with fascistic leanings.
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