[quote name='bandung' date='May 23 2007, 12:50 PM' post='2961794']
who cares where malays are from. african, india, china, europe, america? maybe all maybe none. what matters is how we're going to make malaysia and indonesia better places to live work and more prosperous and also make malays a more sucessful race. not where they're from. no wonder malaysia/indonesia is so behind other countries. Can malaysia make its own weapons? no. can malaysia produce world class athletes, artists? no. how many malay ringits to the pounds ? 6.75. is malaysia winning steel manufacturing contracts in vietnam? no india is. Is malaysia receiving the spill from chinas economic succes? no vietnam is. these are all more important questions and need some serious brainstroming. something needs to be done before we end up just another phillipines.

If the Jews didn't care where they came from (their origins), then the world wouldn't be burdened with the Arab-Israeli conflict ... there wouldn't be 4 Arab-Israeli Wars (1948, 1956, 1967, 1973) .. the Americans wouldn't be in Iraq and Afghanistan.. there wouldn't now be an American-European Holy Crusade against Islam and the Muslims under the pretext of "fighting terrorism"..... heaping untold sufferings and miseries on millions of Palestinians, Iraqis and Afghans. But the Jews took their origins seriously, drove the Palestinians out of Palestine who must now look for their origins elsewhere, and created Israel.... and the world has never been the same ever since. My point: some people go to war over their origins and where they came from. Of course, I am not asking Malays to go to war over their origins ..

But I think Pattiasina's thread "Origin of the Malay Race" is interesting... it's not boring! For all we care, the title of this thread could have been "Origins of Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich"! Or worse, it could have been the "Origins of Britney Spears Maternal Great-great Grandparents". Or worst ... "Origins of Humuhumunukunukuapua'a"!!!!

I still wondering how Jewish end up in Egypt during the Pharoah era?? Did they told us that they're origin from present day Palestine??

Hahaha "Origin of Britneys Spears". Maybe we make that one

Yeah right, just "like Philippines". So, when will your country finally be the greatest country in the region? But joking aside, I think this is an insult. Don't you know, foreigners think of Manila (see Yahoo! Travel threads) as being way more modern than Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, and even Singapore? I've seen Kuala Lumpur and you've got some decent buildings and clean environment, bu ti still think that Manila's way more cosmopolitan and modern. In fact, it is one of the largest metropolises in the world - the 24th largest (not yet includding suburbs), whereas Malaysia's KL didn't even reached the 50th. Aside from that, the Philippines has three metropolises, where as Malaysia technically has only one. And besides, the Philippines have the most beautiful people in the region anyway, and are the best English-speakers and practicioners of the American culture.

just a couple of quick questions. how are the minorities such as indians/chinese treated by the malays? are they a menace? & are they immigrating in droves?

"Islamic Epigrafi-The King Of Ayuthia Dynasty Kedah Pasai Ma Gangga Nagara"


Ramathibodi I
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Ramathibodi I (b. 1314, d. 1369) was the first king of the kingdom Ayutthaya (now part of Thailand), reigning from 1351 to 1369. He was known as Prince U Thong before he ascended to the throne on March 4, 1351. A native of Chiang Saen (now in Chiang Rai Province) he claimed descent from Khun Borom and propagated Theravada Buddhism as the state religion.
Scholar Charnvit Kasetsiri hypothesized that U Thong might have actually been born to a Chinese merchant family operating in the area of Phetburi. At least one royal chronicle identifies U Thong as the son of one Chodüksethi, apparently a leader of the Chinese merchant community.

New information from Kedah, Malaysia clearly state Rama Tibodi I by his Muslim name of Sultan Mad Zafar Syah III ruler of the Siamese Kedah Pasai Ma, probably part of the Ayuthaya Empire or by its Muslim name. Records in Iran state that he has in his royal court a Muslim scholar known as Sheikh Ahmad Qomi. He is the son-in-law of Chinese Siamese Muslim King descendent by the name of Nayuan (Bee Father). A golden coin with his name inscribe on it has been found in the island of Langkawi and is now kept in the Kedah State Museum.
During his reign he built Ton Sun Khlong Tue Mosque in Bangkok which still stand today. Apart from that France still have records in the form of a map of 21 Mosque built in Ayuithia during his reign and drawn by Shari Nao. The Mosques however were destroyed during the invasion by Sukhotai of Myanmar. Meanwhile local villages in Kedah people still speak Siam daily, a language spoken by their former King. The Siam (Muslim) language is different from the Thai language although they are very similar.

Apart from the above information, various tomb of Ayuthia Kings such as Rama Tibodi II is located in Kubang Pasu Kedah. The tombstone is inlaid with Ayyuthians decorative motives, shape as per alphabet 't'. The tomb of Rama Tibodis II son, Khun Woran Wang Ser is also located in Alor Setar, Kedah. His decsendent lives in Kedah and carries the title Nai Long before their given names.



Ramathibodi's position was likely secured by political marriage and family ties. He was married to a daughter of the ruling family of Suphanburi, and may have also married into an alliance with the rulers of Lopburi- it was likely the king of Lopburi that he was initially chosen to succeed. He appointed both his brother-in-law and son to positions of leadership in Suphanburi and Lopburi, respectively, and established his own capital in the new city of Ayutthaya. Ramathabodi's reign bound together the Khmer rulers of Lopburi, the Tai in the west, and the Chinese and Malaysian merchants who inhabited the coastal areas.

Ramathibodi's death sparked a conflict over succession; initially, his son Ramesuan became ruler of Ayutthaya, but Ramesuan later abdicated in favor of Ramathibodi's brother-in-law, Borommaracha. Some sources indicate that the abdication occurred peacefully, while others indicate that Ramesuan's abdication followed a bloody civil war.

Sources


Wyatt, David K., Thailand: A Short History, New Haven (Yale University), 2003. ISBN 0-300-08475-7
Associate Professor Srisak Vallipodom, Sheikh Ahmad Qomi and the History of Siam, Cultural Center of the Islamic City, Republic of Iran, Bangkok 1995, page 209
Assoc Professor Plubplung Kongchana, "The Persians in Ayutthaya", Director, Institiute of Asia Pacific Studies, Srinakharinwirot University.
Tuanku Nai Long Kassim ibni Almarhum Tunku Nai Long Ahmad, "Islamic Epigrafi-The King of Ayuthia Dynasty Kedah Pasai Ma Gangga Nagara"

history about malay in wikipedia mostly wrong. and not accurate

Don't ever think that it's an insult to Philipines. It's a fact. ok. Actually according to history, Philippines was just like the Spain. These two countries were ever influenced by Islam. And the local Filipinos are actually of Malay decent. On that time or era, the people in these two countries were majority Muslim. But, all of this had been changed by the influence of the European Christian colonization. The Tagalog is the mixture of Malay and Spanish that's why there are still Malay words in this language. Same to the African American in the US nowadays where their ancestors were Muslim before they were forced brought to America to be slaves.

However, Malays in Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore and Indonesia are fortunately to survive their faith in Islam despite were being ruled by the Portugeuse, Dutch and British for over than 400 years.

ocrapdm, maybe you are a Filipino I guess from your statement that you was trying to defend Philipines from the "insult" statement (from your view but I still think that's not an insult but it's a fact). From your statements, you are looking from a view of quantity. Yes, I know there are many cosmopolitan in Philipines in terms of population. In Malaysia there are only 2 metropolitans cities that is KL and Johor Bahru because only these 2 cities have population over than 1 millions. Across Malaysia there is only 24 millions population compare to Philipines almost 90 millions in population. Don't ever forget that Indonesia has many metropolis compare to Philippines. The number of metropolis is not the benchmark of a progressive country. There are many other things to count into like the percentage of poverty in a metropolis. So, what to be proud of if the poverty is so many in a metropolis. ok...no offence ok...we are talking fact right here....no insultation....ok.

So that's why Philippines have many cosmopolitans. Quantity doesn't mean nothing, quality that 's we are looking for. Like you said, people in Philippines are the best English speaker in this region, so it's one of the Filipinos' advantage but like I always thought people always get confused, they always think that if you're excellence in English than you are excellence in everything. Stop thinking like this ok. Just look at Japan, many of the Japanese are not influenced in English even their ministers are not influenced in English, but look where they are now. There are one of the most advanced county in the world and they did it without having their people to be well-English speakers citizen. Sad to hear that you're proud that Filipino are practicioners of the American culture. Don't ever forget your root culture, ok.

the Philippines have the most beautiful people in the region anyway--> what this statement got to do with these debating. Don't make naive assumption by saying that having most beautiful people so the nation is also the most progressive country. Beautiful is a subjective matter. Any country we could see beautiful people. Anyway, I 'm not denying that Filipino people are beautiful especially the mix breed.

ok...that's all for now. tq

So weird, Is it true ?
How can a Chinese, Indian, Kadazan can ever become a Malay and vice versa ?
What is the advantage to be a malay in malaysia ?

^ Yes it true !!! If we know what "Malay or Melayu" in Malaysia means, that really not a problem. For me I still thinking "Melayu" its not specific race like Jawa, Bugis or Aceh. That why they spread around Sumatera, Peninsular Malaysia and Kalimantan.

FYI, nothing you gain if you become a Malay. You will not become Superman if you become a Malay in Malaysia.

lol this made me laugh. lucky you guys

I read this article at Utusan Melayu today (http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2007&dt=0611&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Sastera&pg=sa_02.htm).

Can you assist me to explain the meaning of this sentence:

... budaya dan proses berfikir Nusantara .... is it the same with budaya dan proses berfikir melayu ? What is this ?

In indonesia, Nusantara is the other name of our country (refer to our country as archipelago......)

It may seem weird to you .. that's because 'Malay/Melayu' means different things in different countries, as I wrote earlier on. ... different in Indonesia, different in Philippines or in Brunei or in Timor Leste. Pride in being Malay varies accross these countries .. some probably do not want to be associated with Malayness, some give lip service to Malayness, others staunchly think they are Malays. Indonesians, for instance, call themselves 'bangsa Indonesia', not 'bangsa Melayu'.

And in Malaysia ... yes, it's easier to be Malays .. as long as you're Muslim. Also, in Malaysia, we lump all Muslim Malay ethnic groups as Malays ... Malays, Javanese, Boyans, Bugis, Banjars, Minagkabaus, etc .. you name it. And the thing is that everybody is happy with this Malay label, in fact they are proud to be Malays..

In the beginning, this generalized Malay concept takes root only in Malaysia Barat (West Malaysia) but now the concept has spread to Malaysia Timur (East Malaysia), especially in Sabah after UMNO's entry there ... now Muslim Sabahans have willingly accept the label 'Malay' when in the past a Bajau was a Bajau, a Bisaya a Bisaya, etc ... now they are all Malays in official documents. I think Sarawak too will be 'Malaynized' if UMNO gets there..

What do Malays gain in Malaysia ... well they have certain special priviliges ... some priviliges are written, some probably are not written but understood to be so..

Some written priviliges: the Malay Sultans remain as an institution, the language of the Malays, Bahasa Melayu get to be the national language .. the religion of the Malays, Islam, is the official religion, the Syariah Courts remain supreme in Islamic matters ... the Dasar Ekonomi Baru (New Economic Policy) accord certain economic priviliges to Malays... the Amanah Saham Nasional (ASB) is open only to Malays/Bumiputras ...

Unwritten rules .. I think the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia will always be Malays .. politically, Malays will always be predominant .. but no law says non-Malays can't be in these positions. The milatry and police is dominated by Malays .. not a written rule ..

But I think we Malays deserve these "priviliges" in the face of a large non-Malay minority that already controls the economy... we have the right to safeguard our interests, every indigeneous society in any country would do the same .. ask the Fijians, ask the Jews of Israel .. but at least we're not .. and we will not be ..... treating our non-Malays like the indigeneous Fijians do to their ethnic Indians or the Jews of Israel to their Arabs..... Malays of Malaysia are very pragmatic and liberal .. we are very accomodating... we willingly share political and economic power with non-Malays .. we are very peaceful country despite being extremely heterogeneous, unlike some homogeneous contries like Iraq and Lebanon where they kill each other because they belong to different Islamic sects ... you know .... Shiites, Sunnis, Druzes, etc, fight each other despite all being Arabs and Muslim ... or the Catholics fight the Protestants in Ireland despite they being English-speaking Caucasians..

Increasing intermariages between West and East Malaysians, between Malays of various Malay ethnic groups (Malay, Javanese, Bugis, etc) is making the concept of 'Malay' even stronger in Malaysia ... nobody defines themselves in terms of Malay, Javanese, Bugis, etc .... it's completely redundant for a Malay to think of himself as a Bajau or a Suluk or a Javanese, etc ... Malays are even intermarrying with non-Malays .. with Chinese, Indians, Mat Sallehs (Caucasians), Arabs, etc .. and with a large influx of foreigners in Malaysia (Indonesians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Indians, Africans, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, etc) .. chances are there will be more intermarriages .. but be sure you're Muslim .. and you'll always be Malay!!

And believe it or not .. even foreigners are intermarrying each other in Malaysia!! You know ... like Indonesian women marrying Indian men ... or Filipino women marrying African men ... all in Malaysia .. Malaysia Boleh!! A melting pot ...

And I myself is of varied blood ... Malay and Mandailing on my mother's side .... Malay-Javanese-Indian-Arab on my father's side .. do I feel funny? Nope! I feel 'MALAY'!!!! I only speak Malay (as a mother tongue) ans English (as an acquired language)...

It seems there is so much interest about 'Malay' ... that's good... as I said earlier... this thread rocks ..

No problem Firdausi! I will assist you! As I said earlier ... 'Malay' means different things in different racially Malay countries..

Now ... even 'Nusantara' means different things in Malaysia and Indonesia.

In Malaysia, 'Nusantara' means the 'Malay World' or 'Alam Melayu' .. so in Malaysia it means the geographic area that covers Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Malay Southern Thailand ,... and I think even the Philiipines and Timor Leste. 'Nusantara' in Malaysia is largely a culture term ... refers to the racially Malay peoples who share many Malay cultural traits ... even genetic traits..

We are actually the descendant of ancient Sumerians, but most Malays now are muds. I've read this somewhere, but could not find the link. Try Google it up.

Huh?

That's far-fetched hyperbole.

At most, Malays are part of larger Austronesian ethnic group.

Sumerians? I don't think so.. no academic discussions thus far that have suggested Sumeria as a geographic origin of the Malays. Perhaps you confused between SUMERIA and SUMATRA!! Plenty of connections between Malays and SUMATRA ... but SUMERIA ... ah ah ... I better check the Code of Hammurabi to ascertain that!!

It has been well accepted that Malays originate from somewhere in China. The traditional Malay migration theory says that Malays originate from Yunnan which is now a part of modern China. Even the Yunnan theory has two versions: Yunnan-down-the Malay Peninsula theory and Yunnan-down the-Mekong theory. Another theory says that Malays originate from Taiwan under the "Taiwan-down-the-Philippines" theory.

According to the Yunnan-down-the Malay Peninsula theory, early Malays, also called Proto Malays ('Proto' means 'First') arrived in Peninsular Malaysia between 35,000 t0 10,000 years ago during the Mesolithic Age. When they arrived the Negritoes were already living in Peninsular Malaysia. The Proto Malays pushed the Negritoes into hills and mountains in the interior. The Negritoes were thought to come to Peninsular Malaysia from Africa under the "Out of Africa " theory between 60,000 to 35,000 years ago. The Negritoes also reach the Philippines. A second wave of Malays, called Deutero Malays ('Deutero' means 'second') arrived in Peninsular Malaysia between 10,000 to 5,000 years ago. The Deutero Malays later spread from Malay Peninsular to the Malay Archipelago (Indonesia, Philippines, East Timor, Brunei) and the Pacific.

Today the Deutero Malays have evolved racially into modern Malays that make up the majority populations of Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Timor Leste, Philippines and Malagasy. Modern Malays of Southeast Asia have also intermarried in recent times with Arabs, Indian, Chinese, Spanish, other Europeans, etc.

The Negritoes have evolved into the Semang Orang Asli group of Peninsular Malaysia. The Semang is further divided ethnically into the Kintak, Kensiu, Lanoh, Jahai, Mandriq and Batiq tribes who are found mostly in northern Peninsular Malaysia states like Kedah and Perak. In Philippines, the Negritoes brecome the Aeta tribe. The Proto Malays of Peninsular Malaysia have evolved into the Orang Asli tribes of Temuan, Semelai, Jakun, Kanaq, Kuala, Seletar, Temiar, Semai, Semoq Beri, Jahut, Mah Meri and Che Wong.

Another Yunnan Malay migration theory stipulates that the Malays, both Proto and Deutero, migrated from Yunnan down the mighty Mekong River to Southeast Asia and elsewhere. Some of them settled in Indo-China to build up empires that include Funan and Chanpa. From Indo-China, they sailed to Peninsular Malaysia and elsewhere into Southeast Asia and the Pacific.

Whatever routes from Yunnan that they took, Malays later evolved into two major groups: Malayo and Polynesians. The 'Malayo' group is basically racially Malay that today comprises Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Timor Leste, Brunei and Malagasy. Those that reach the Pacific islands become Polynesians .. but today they are both still called Malayo-Polynesians.

Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orang_Asli
http://asiarecipe.com/phihistory.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Malaysia
http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/malays.htm

Cham-Malay relation
Malay & Cham languages.
Malay & Cham languages.

The similarity of the Cambodian Cham language and the Malay language can be found in names of places such as Kampong Cham, Kambujadesa, Kampong Chhnang, etc and Sejarah Melayu clearly mentioned a Cham community in Parameswara's Malacca around 1400s. Cham is related to the Malayo-Polynesian languages of Malaysia, Indonesia, Madagascar and the Philippines. In mid 1400s, when Cham was heavily defeated by the Vietnamese, some 120,000 were killed and in the 1600s the Champa king converted to Islam. In 1700s the last Champa Muslim king Pô Chien gathered his people and migrated south to Cambodia while those along the coastline migrated to the nearest peninsula state Terengganu, approximately 500km or less by boat, and Kelantan. Malaysian constitution recognises the Cham rights to Malaysian citizenship and their Bumiputra status. Read Cham people. Now that the history is interlinked, there is a possibility that Parameswara's family were Cham refugees who fled to Palembang before he fled to Tumasik and finally to Malacca. Interestingly, one of the last Kings of Angkor of the Khmer Empire had the name Paramesvarapada.

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Malaysia

The "Taiwan-Philippines" Malay migration theory says that the Malays originate from the Austronesian ancestors who hailed from Taiwan. From Taiwan, the Malays migrated to Luzon in the Philippines between 5000 to 6000 BCE. From the Philippines, over a period of a thousand years, the Malays migrated to Sulawesi, the Moluccas (now eastern Indonesia) and northern Borneo (now eastern Malaysia and Brunei).

In the Moluccas, they were set to evolve into western and eastern stocks. Those that sailed eastwards from the Moluccas reached Melanesia, Micronesia and the Pacific between 1200 to 500 BCE, and became Polynesian of the Pacific islands (Tonga, Fiji, Kiribati, Hawaii, Samoa, etc). The Polynesians are the eastern stock of the Malayo-Polynesian race.

Those that sailed westwards reached Sumatra, Java, Lesser Sunda Islands, western and southern Borneo (now Indonesia) and the Malay Peninsula (now West Malaysia and South Thailand)by 500 BCE. The Malays (Malayo) are the western stock of the Malayo-Polynesian race.

In Taiwan, where they originated from, the Malays still have relatives in the form of 9 Taiwan Austronesian-origin aboriginal tribes: the Yami, the Paiwan, the Puyuma, the Rukai, the Tsou, the Bunun, the Ami, the Atayal and the Saisiyat.

Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_people
http://www.sinica.edu.tw/tit/culture/0795_...esOfTaiwan.html

It's been interesting to read such free-flowing comments on an all "Malaysian" free for all. While we are on the subject, how many of you have read the book entitled "Contesting Malayness"? Written by a Professor of National University of Singapore. Cost S$32 (about). It reflects the Anthropologists views that there is no such race as the "Malays" to begin with. If we follow the original migration of the Southern Chinese of 6,000yrs ago, they moved into Taiwan, (now the Alisan), then into the Phillipines (now the Aeta) and moved into Borneo (4,500yrs ago) (Dayak). They also split into Sulawesi and progressed into Jawa, and Sumatera. The final migration was to the Malayan Peninsular 3,000yrs ago. A sub-group from Borneo also moved to Champa in Vietnam at 4,500yrs ago.

Interestingly, the Champa deviant group moved back to present day Kelantan. There are also traces of the Dong Song and HoaBinh migration from Vietnam and Cambodia. To confuse the issue, there was also the Southern Thai migration, from what we know as Pattani today. (see also "Early Kingdoms of the Indonesian Archipelago and the Malay Peninsular")

Of course, we also have the Minangkabau's which come from the descendants of Alexander the Great and a West Indian Princess. (Sejarah Melayu page 1-3)


So the million Dollar Question... Is there really a race called the "Malays"? All anthropologists DO NOT SEEM TO THINK SO.


Neither do the "Malays" who live on the West Coast of Johor. They'd rather be called Javanese. What about the west coast Kedah inhabitants who prefer to be known as "Achenese"? or the Ibans who simply want to be known as IBANS. Try calling a Kelabit a "Malay" and see what response you get... you’ll be so glad that their Head-Hunting days are over.

In an article in the Star, dated: Dec 3rd 2006

available for on-line viewing at:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...4&sec=focus

An excerp is reproduced here below:

"The Malays – taken as an aggregation of people of different ethnic backgrounds but who speak the same language or family of languages and share common cultural and traditional ties – are essentially a new race, compared to the Chinese, Indians and the Arabs with their long histories of quests and conquests.

The Malay nation, therefore, covers people of various ethnic stock, including Javanese, Bugis, Bawean, Achehnese, Thai, orang asli, the indigenous people of Sabah and Sarawak and descendants of Indian Muslims who had married local women.

Beneath these variations, however, there is a common steely core that is bent on changing the Malay persona from its perceived lethargic character to one that is brave, bold and ready to take on the world. "


The definition of “Malay” is therefore simply a collection of people's who speak a similar type language. With what is meant by a similar type language does not mean that the words are similar. Linguists call this the "Lego-type" language, where words are added on to the root word to make meaning and give tenses and such. Somehow, the Indonesians disagree with this classification and insist on being called "Indonesians" even though the majority of "Malays" have their roots in parts of Indonesia? They refuse to be called "Malay"…. Anyhow you may define it.

The writer failed to identify (probably didn't know), that the "Malay" definition also includes, the Champa, Dong Song, HoabinHian, The Taiwanese Alisan and the Philippino Aetas. He also did not identify that the "Orang Asli" are (for lack of a better term) ex-Africans. If you try to call any one of our East Malaysian brothers an "Orang Asli", they WILL BEAT YOU UP! I had to repeat this because almost all West Malaysians make the same mistake when we cross the South China Sea. Worse, somehow, they feel even more insulted when you call them “Malay”. Somehow, “kurang ajar” is uttered below their breath as if “Malay” was a really bad word for them. I’m still trying to figure this one out.

Watch “Malays in Africa”; a Museum Negara produced DVD. Also, the “Champa Malays” by the same.

With this classification, they MUST also include the Phillipinos, the Papua New Guineans, the Australian Aboroginies, as well as the Polynesian Aboroginies. These are of the Australo Melanesians who migrated out of Africa 60,000yrs ago.

Getting interesting? Read on...

"Malay" should also include the Taiwanese singer "Ah Mei" who is Alisan as her tribe are the anscestors of the "Malays". And finally, you will need to define the Southern Chinese (Southern Province) as Malay also, since they are from the same stock 6,000yrs ago.

Try calling the Bugis a "Malay". Interestingly, the Bugis, who predominantly live on Sulawesi are not even Indonesians. Neither do they fall into the same group as the migrating Southern Chinese of 6,000yrs ago nor the Australo Melanesian group from Africa.

Ready for this?

The Bugis are the cross-breed between the Chinese and the Arabs. (FYI, a runaway Ming Dynasty official whom Cheng Ho was sent to hunt down) Interestingly, the Bugis were career Pirates in the Johor-Riau Island areas. Now the nephew of Daeng Kemboja was appointed the First Sultan of Selangor. That makes the entire Selangor Sultanate part Arab, part Chinese! Try talking to the Bugis Museum curator near Kukup in Johor. Kukup is located near the most south-western tip of Johor. (Due south of Pontian Kechil)

Let's not even get into the Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Kasturi, Hang Lekiu, and Hang Lekir, who shared the same family last name as the other super famous "Hang" family member... Hang Li Poh. And who was she? the princess of a Ming Dynasty Emperor who was sent to marry the Sultan of Malacca. Won't that make the entire Malacca Sultanate downline "Baba" ? Since the older son of the collapsed Malaccan Sultanate got killed in Johor, (the current Sultanate is the downline of the then, Bendahara) the only other son became the Sultan of Perak. Do we see any Chinese-ness in Raja Azlan? Is he the descendant of Hang Li Poh?

Next question. If the Baba’s are part Malay, why have they been marginalized by NOT BEING BUMIPUTERA? Which part of “Malay” are they not? Whatever the answer, why then are the Portugese of Malacca BUMIPUTERA? Did they not come 100yrs AFTER the arrival of the first Baba’s? Parameswara founded Malacca in 1411. The Portugese came in 1511, and the Dutch in the 1600’s. Strangely, the Baba’s were in fact once classified a Bumiputera, but a decided that they were strangely “declassified” in the 1960’s. WHY?

The Sultan of Kelantan had similar roots to the Pattani Kingdom making him of Thai origin. And what is this "coffee table book" by the Sultan of Perlis claiming to be the direct descendant of the prophet Muhammed? Somehow we see Prof Khoo Khay Khim’s signature name on the book. I’ll pay good money to own a copy of it myself. Anyone has a spare?

So, how many of you have met with orang Asli’s? the more northern you go, the more African they look. Why are they called Negrito’s? It is a Spanish word, from which directly transalates “mini Negros”. The more southern you go, the more “Indonesian” they look. And the ones who live at Cameron Highlands kinda look 50-50. You can see the Batek at Taman Negara, who really look like Eddie Murphy to a certain degree. Or the Negritos who live at the Thai border near Temenggor Lake (north Perak). The Mah Meri in Carrie Island look almost like the Jakuns in Endau Rompin. Half African, half Indonesian.

By definition, (this is super eye-opening) there was a Hindu Malay Empire in Kedah. Yes, I said right… The Malays were Hindu. It was, by the old name Langkasuka. Today known as Lembah Bujang. This Hindu Malay Empire was 2,000yrs old. Pre-dating Borrobudor AND Angkor Watt. Who came about around 500-600yrs later. Lembah Bujang was THE mighty trading empire, and its biggest influence was by the Indians who were here to help start it. By definition, this should make the Indians BUMIPUTERAS too since they were here 2,000yrs ago! Why are they marginalized?

Of the 3 books listed, "Contesting Malayness" (about S$32 for soft cover) is "banned” in Malaysia; you will need to "smuggle" it into Malaysia; for very obvious reasons.... or read it in Singapore if you don’t feel like breaking the law.

The other, "Kingdoms of the Indonesian Archipelago, and the Malay Peninsular" (about RM84) are openly sold at all leading bookshops; Kinokuniya, MPH, Borders, Popular, Times, etc. You should be able to find a fair bit of what I’ve been quoting in this book too, but mind you, it is very heavy reading material, and you will struggle through the initial 200+ pages. It is extremely technical in nature. Maybe that’s why it wasn’t banned (yet)…coz our authorities couldn’t make head or tail of it? (FYI, if I wasn’t doing research for my film, I wouldn’t have read it in its entirety)

While the "Sejarah Melayu" (about RM 35) is available at the University Malaya bookshop. I have both the English and Royal Malay version published by MBRAS.

Incidentally, the Professor (Author) was invited to speak on this very subject about 2 yrs ago, in KL, invited by the MBRAS. You can imagine the "chaos" this seminar created......

There were actually many sources for these findings. Any older Philippino Museum Journal also carries these migration stories. This migration is also on display at the Philippines National Museum in Luzon. However, they end with the Aeta, and only briefly mention that the migration continued to Indonesia and Malaysia, but fully acknowledge that all Philippinos came from Taiwan. And before Taiwan, China. There is another book (part of a series) called the "Archipelago Series" endorsed by Tun Mahatir and Marina Mohammad, which states the very same thing right at the introduction on page one. “… that the Malays migrated out of Southern China some 6,000yrs ago…”. I believe it is called the “Pre-History of Malaysia” Hard Cover, about RM99 found in (mostly) MPH. They also carry “Pre-History of Indonesia” by the same authors for the same price.

It is most interesting to note that our Museum officials invented brand new unheard-of terms such as "Proto-Malay" and "Deutero-Malay", to replace the accepted Scientific Term, Australo-Melanesians (African descent) and Austronesians (Chinese Descent, or Mongoloid to be precise) in keeping in line with creating this new “Malay” term.. They also created the new term called the Melayu-Polynesian. (Which Melayu exists in the Polynesian Islands?) Maybe they were just trying to be “Patriotic” and “Nationalistic”… who knows…? After all, we also invented the term, “Malaysian Time”. While the rest of the world calls it “Tardy” and “Late”. It’s quite an embarrassment actually…. Singaporeans crossing the border are asked to set their watches back by about 100yrs, to adjust to “Malaysian Time”…

In a nutshell, the British Colonial Masters, who, for lack of a better description, needed a “blanket” category for ease of classification, used the term “Malay”.

The only other logical explanation, which I have heard, was that “Malaya” came as a derivative of “Himalaya”, where at Langkasuka, or Lembah Bujang today was where the Indians were describing the locals as “Malai” which means “Hill People” in Tamil. This made perfect sense as the focal point at that time was at Gunung Jerai, and the entire Peninsular had a “Mountain Range” “Banjaran Titiwangsa”, as we call it.

The Mandarin and Cantonese accurately maintain the accurate pronunciation of “Malai Ren” and “Malai Yun” respectively till this very day. Where “ren” and “yun” both mean “peoples”.

Interestingly, “Kadar” and “Kidara”, Hindi and Sanskrit words accurately describe “Kedah” of today. They both mean “fertile Land for Rice cultivation. Again, a name given by the Indians 2,000yrs ago during the “Golden Hindu Era” for a duration of 1,500yrs.

It was during the “Golden Hindu Era” that the new term which the Hindu Malay leaders also adopted the titles, “Sultan” and “Raja”. The Malay Royalty were Hindu at that time, as all of Southeast Asia was under strong Indian influence, including Borrobudor, and Angkor Watt. Bali today still practices devout Hindu Beliefs. The snake amulet worn by the Sultans of today, The Royal Dias, and even the “Pelamin” for weddings are tell-tale signs of these strong Indian influences. So, it was NOT Parameswara who was the first Sultan in Malaya. Sultanage existed approximately 1,500years before he set foot on the Peninsular during the "Golden Hindu Era" of Malaysia. And they were all Hindu.

“PreHistory of Malaysia” also talks about the “Lost Kingdom” of the “Chi-Tu” where the local Malay Kingdom were Buddhists. The rest of the “Malays” were Animistic Pagans.

But you may say, "Sejarah Melayu" calls it "Melayu"? Yes, it does. Read it again; is it trying to describe the 200-odd population hamlet near Palembang by the name "Melayu"?(Google Earth will show this village).

By that same definition, then, the Achehnese should be considered a “race”. So should the Bugis and the Bataks, to be fair. Orang Acheh, Orang Bugis, Orang Laut, Orang Melayu now mean the same… descriptions of ethnic tribes, at best. And since the “Malays” of today are not all descendants of the “Melayu” kampung in Jambi (if I remember correctly), the term Melayu has been wrongly termed. From day one. Maybe this is why the Johoreans still call themselves either Bugis, or Javanese until today. So do the Achehnese on the West coast of Kedah & Perlis and the Kelantanese insist that they came from Champa, Vietnam.

Morover, the fact that the first 3 pages claiming that "Melayu" comes from Alexander the Great and the West Indian Princess doesn't help. More importantly, it was written in 1623. By then, the Indians had been calling the locals “Malai” for 1,500 yrs already. So the name stuck….

And with the Sejarah Melayu (The Malay Annals in page 1-3) naming the grandson of Iskandar Zulkarnain, and the West Indian Princess forming the Minangkabau. Whenever a Malay is asked about it, he usually says it is "Karut" (bull$hit), but all Malayan based historians insist on using Sejarah Melayu as THE main reference book for which "Malay" history is based upon. The only other books are “Misa Melayu”, "Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa", and “Hikayat Hang Tuah” which is of another long and sometimes “heated” discussion.

I find this strange.

I also find, that it is strange that the "Chitti's" (Indian+Malay) of Malacca are categorized as Bumiputera, while their Baba brothers are not. Why? Both existed during the Parameswara days. Which part of the “Malay” side of the Baba’s is not good enough for Bumiputera classification? Re-instate them. They used to be Bumiputera pre 1960’s anyway.

Instead of "Malay", I believe that "Maphilindo" (circa 1963) would have been the closest in accurately trying to describe the Malays. However, going by that definition, it should most accurately be "MaphilindoThaiChinDiaVietWanGreekCamfrica". And it is because of this; even our University Malaya Anthropology professors cannot look at you in the eye and truthfully say that the word "Malay" technically and accurately defines a race.

This is most unfortunate.

So, in a nutshell, the “Malays” (anthropologists will disagree with this “race” definition) are TRULY ASIA !!! For once the Tourism Ministry got it right….

We should stop calling this country “Tanah Melayu” instead call it, “Tanah Truly Asia”

You must understand now, why I was "tickled pink" when I found out that the Visit Malaysia slogan for 2007 was "Truly Asia". They are so correct... (even though they missed out Greece and Africa)

BTW, the name UMNO should be changed to UTANO the new official acronym for “United Truly Asia National Organization” . After all, they started out as a Bugis club in Johor anyway….

I told you all that I hate race classifications…. This is so depressing. Even more depressing is that the "malays" are not even a race; not since day one.


“Truly Asia Boleh”

Another blatant non-Malay attempt to wipe off Malays from the face of this planet, especially the Malaysian Malays... so we are told UMNO must be changed to UTANO because Malays don't exist. So we are told "Tanah Melayu" must be changed to "Truly Asia" because Malays do not exist.

Some non-Malays will stop at nothing to steal Malaysia from the Malays by coming up with this sick, morbid idea that Malays do not exist based on some distorted versions of the definitions of "Malays". They want to break and divide the Malaysian Malays by insisting that they do not exist in Malaysia .. so we're being told that what exist are Javanese, Bugis, Acehnese, etc, etc ... but Malays do not exist.

We're being told by this extremist baltant idea that the name of the country must not be MALAYsia but "TRULY ASIA" because Malays do not exist and a country can't be named after a non-existent entity..

We are being told that even Indonesians hate being called MALAYS ... a lie! Yes, Indonesians called themselved bangsa Indonesia ... but to date no Indonesians have denied that they belong to "RUMPUN MELAYU". Indonesians always refer to Malaysia as "NEGERI SERUMPUN" ... Indonesians have always referred to themselves and to Malaysians as "RUMPUN MELAYU" although they will never call themselves Bangsa Melayu.

Even Filipinos proudly call themselves MALAYS racially although they are proud to also call themselves FILI{INOS as a nationality

To the Malays of Malaysia: Some people try to steal our country from us by renaming MALAYsia "TRULY ASIA"


"Truly Asia"? What a farce!!

Malays exist now. They existed before for thousand of years. And they will exist for the next thousands of years unless Allah Himself decides otherwise. No attempt to wipe us from this planet will succeed. Not in a thousand years.

We have our langusge, the BAHASA MELAYU. There's a proverb, Bahasa menunjukkan Bangsa. Where there is a Bahasa, there is definitely a Bangsa. And BANGSA MELAYU exist. Will always exist.

TAK AKAN MELAYU HILANG DI DUNIA ... says HANG TUAH

WE EXIST and our country is MALAYsia.

Dang michaelchick, what a first posting that was! Keep on posting yeah.
I bought my copy of The Kingdoms of the Indonesian Archipelago and Malay Peninusula from Kinokuniya KLCC. It's one of my favourites.

This is how the Malays were made:

God was like baking, right. First batch was underdone, too white. Second batch was overdone, too dark. Third batch just nice, and these cooked dough was the forefathers of the Malay peeps.

And they still need help aka tongkat....what a shame

Wow that was a good read. Salamat mga kapatid.

I don't think Tagalog is a mixture of "Malay" and Spanish. One reason why there are similarities is because they belong to the same family. Saying that Tagalog is mixed with Malay is like saying that Micronesian languages is mixed with Malay. Jesus.

This is my knowledge soo far about the name Melayu/Malay and it's origin

At first.., this race has no name to identify themself..... they're just a bunch of tribes that share common ancestor, spreading and sprawling throughout Southeast Asian mainland and archipelago.

The name Melayu is first mentioned as the name of kingdom, Malayupura in Jambi, Sumatra.

It was first mentioned in Chinese annals, that Buddhist monk from China on his way to India has visited the kingdom of Srivijaya, and then visit Srivijaya northern neighbour kingdom, Malayupura. So it's just the name of place in Sumatra originated from 7th century Malayupura kingdom in Jambi, Sumatra. When he on the way returning to China he discovered that Malayupura had been raided and absorbed to become a vassal kingdom of Srivijaya. However the language of Malayupura called bahasa Melayu survive, adopted, modified, and evolved by Srivijaya. The spread of bahasa Melayu as coastal port's Lingua Franca in archipelago probably due to 500 years of Srivijaya domination.

The word Melayu then used to identify Malaccan strait coastal people with similar culture; the port Sultanate of Malaka and the Riau-Johor Sultanates are undoubtedly called themself Melayu people. Coastal Borneo states are also Melayu sultanates. But other places has already developed their own identities, social unity, refined culture, far earlier since the dawn of history and didn't identify themself as Melayu, ex: Javanese, Sundanese, Balinese, Madurese, Minangkabau, Bugis, Makassar, Minahasan, Batak, Acehnese, etc. In this ethnical senses (as most Indonesian felt) Melayu only valid for Malay of coastal Sumatran and Borneo, Creole Batavian (Jakartans), and Malay of the Malay peninsula.

Later antrophological science felt the need for a unity to identify this distinct race in Southeast Asia (as counterpart of yellow east asian and caucasoid Indian and Arabian). Widely accepted to be called Austronesian.
Since Bretons study this things and they has colonize present day Malaysia-Singapore-Brunei, they simply identify this race as "Malay". That's the origin of Malay ini racial senses. We Indonesian widely accepted the notion of us as part of "rumpun Melayu" the Malay Austronesian race in broader sense, but not accepted to be called "suku Melayu". Malay in ethnical senses, since most of us are not suku Melayu.

Melayu means ran away in Javanese, majority of Indonesian are Javanese, that's why we don't name our country as Melayunesia....., since this name could means that the country only formed by suku Melayu in coastal Sumatra and Borneo. We also don't called our country "Javanesia" although majority are Javanese ethnicities. Since the already established notions and strong identification with the island of Java. We called our country Indonesia (it's even in greek.....; indos-nesos), since it was considered the "neutral scientific geographic name" to identify the strings of archipelago close to (lies east from) India. Also the closest name to our former name; The Netherland Indies or "Indies" as Europeans called our archipelago. We use our national language Bahasa Indonesia, the modified form of Bahasa Melayu, not Javanese (the majority) just for "practical" reasons. Bahasa Melayu is already spreading and functioning Lingua Franca since Srivijaya era. Soo there's lots of compromize among various ethnics during the formation of Indonesia.

In Malay peninsula during British colonialism there's large influx of Chinese and Indian to Malay peninsula, resulting the Malay alarmed to become minority in their own land. The face-to-face confrontation with other foreign races (Indian and Chinese), resulted in deeply rooted senses of Malayness as a single race, together with their distinct treats (Malay must be Sunni Islam, etc although their ancestor are Hindu-Buddhist). This Malay in ethnical sense (suku) has moved further and wider to racial senses (ras). I think that's the origin of Malay acquired racial senses in Malaysia.

In the Phillippines, after centuries of Spanish and American occupation and colonialism, the Nationalist of Phillippines felt the need to identify themself, to create awareness and unity among diverse Phillippines tribes and ethnics. The closest of their kin is their cousins; Malay of northern Borneo. Also there's developing notions in Malay peninsula identifying Malay as a race. So then there's lots of socio anthropological writings among Phillippines about this Malay-race thesis, so The Phillippines accepted the notions that they are part of larger family of Malay Austronesians.

change the name from Philippines to Malaya?

http://www.gov.ph/FORUM/thread.asp?rootID=...D=18&page=2

No... Malaya is the name of Malay Peninsula.....


Hmm..., come to think of it,
The Islands strings that lies north of us probably better to be named not based to honor Phillip, a long ago dead Spanish King.....
But it's the historical fact that lead the course to present name of The Phillippines.
Maybe Phillippines should be renamed.... but I don't know....
it's the Phillippines peoples call, not us, we're just their cousin neighbours....

im proud to be a malay!! BROWN POWER!!!!!!!!!

Malay is rich with history and culture. We are so unique. Most of us are proud of being Malay but there are some who arent.
They should be.

We, Malays from Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand, must be united and do our race proud by achieving something great.

"...Indonesians have always referred to themselves and to Malaysians as "RUMPUN MELAYU" although they will never call themselves Bangsa Melayu..."
MC: Thank you for helping tp clear up the issue. Rumpun, Puak, Kaum, Orang and Bangsa. If you define each one correctly, you will attain the precise knowledge which I was trying to impart. Malaysia calls it "Bangsa Melayu" not "Bangsa Malaysia". Please send this to them for re-classification.

MC: By strict definition you can only be called "Orang Melayu" if, and only if you are descendants of Kampung Melayu near Jambi, Palembang, Sumatera.

"...Even Filipinos proudly call themselves MALAYS racially although they are proud to also call themselves FILIPINOS as a nationality..."
MC: Again you have hit the nail on the head for me. Bravo!!! You are now undertanding this. Malaysian Immigration REFUSES to acknowledge that anyone from the Phillipines can fill out "Malay" under the race category. They MUST fill it as "Phillipino". Pleae forward your grouses to the Malaysian Immigration as well.

The origins of the Malay race as covered by the BBC documentary "The Incredible Human Journey":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpS1f9i8VPA