Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Vietnam Miracle May Be Near End
Asia Finest Discussion Forum > Asian Culture > Vietnamese Chat
Byron
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm...ubsection=world

QUOTE
Michael Richardson: Vietnam miracle may be near end

05.07.2004
COMMENT
HANOI - The Vietnamese capital is humming with economic activity.

In a country still run by a communist party, the signs of private enterprise and increasing disposable income are on open display in shops, restaurants and on billboards advertising the latest motorbikes, cars, mobile phones and television sets.

This growth helps to explain why Vietnam has done remarkably well in reducing deprivation. Almost a third of the total population of 80 million was lifted out of poverty in less than a decade, with the proportion of those living below the poverty line falling from 58 per cent in 1993 to 29 per cent in 2002.

The World Bank describes this as "one of the greatest success stories in economic development". Only China, Ireland and a few countries recovering from civil war or economic havoc have seen faster growth of GDP per capita than Vietnam in recent years.

Indonesia, too, did well in raising living standards in the 1980s. What were the keys? Clearly the political complexion of the government wasn't one of them. Ireland is a democracy while Vietnam, China and Indonesia had authoritarian regimes for all or much of the time that poverty fell fastest.

The Asian trio also had weak legal systems, only partly open markets and dubious human rights records. Yet under Bush Administration guidelines, United States foreign aid is to go mainly to poor nations that support human rights, have strong systems of law and open markets.

On June 23 President George W. Bush announced that Vietnam would become the 15th nation to benefit from the US emergency plan for Aids relief. Announced last year, the plan commits America to spend US$15 billion ($23 billion) over five years to combat HIV-Aids around the world.

When asked why Vietnam had been chosen, instead of democratic India, a senior US official replied: "Vietnam is the place where we believe we can address our money and our attention and really make the greatest impact.

"One other factor we considered was the degree of commitment that existed in Vietnam today, where it is spending about US$36 ($56) a person infected with Aids, as compared to India, that's spending about US$6 ($9) a person."

Two factors in raising living standards were common to Ireland, Vietnam, China and Indonesia: sustained rapid economic growth and governance that worked to alleviate poverty.

In Vietnam, for example, the economy expanded by an average of 6 per cent each year between 1993 and 2002, despite the East Asian financial crisis.

The household measure of poverty in Vietnam is based on a per capita income of US$128 ($198) a year, enough for a person to consume 2100 calories of food a day and have US$36 ($56) left over for other essentials such as clothes and housing.

By another, perhaps more realistic, guideline - purchasing power parity, which measures what a dollar actually buys in different countries - the poverty rate in Vietnam fell to 11 per cent of the population in 2003, from 51 per cent in 1990.

Vietnamese and foreign officials attribute Vietnam's success in cutting poverty to a combination of factors. They came into play after the Government made the strategic decision in the late 1980s to relax the command economy and open the market.

Early gains in alleviating poverty were linked to the national distribution of agricultural land to rural households.

In a country where most people were farmers, this land reform was an incentive to increase farm production even though it did not include the right of freehold land ownership.

By the late 1990s, job creation by a burgeoning private sector and increased integration of agriculture in the market economy, as farmers produced more for sale than subsistence, were the driving forces behind reducing poverty.

Other factors included the commitment of Vietnam's governing Communist Party to improve the lot of the poor, an administration able to deliver services such as primary education, healthcare and electricity down to village level, high literacy rates and a relatively low birth rate.

The rate of population increase in Vietnam is 1.8 per cent. In developing countries that have rates of population increase of well over 2 per cent a year, such as the Philippines, Pakistan, Cambodia, Laos, Nepal and Papua New Guinea, it is more difficult to raise living standards even when growth picks up.

The Vietnamese Government says that more than nine out of 10 adults are literate, more than 80 per cent of all preschool children are in kindergarten and 91 per cent of older children attend primary schools. Lower secondary school enrolment is reported to be 62 per cent.

Vietnam's high literacy rate helps to reduce poverty, by making it easier for young people to find jobs.

Will this egalitarian success story continue? A World Bank projection of Vietnam's household poverty rate puts it at 21 per cent by 2010, down by 8 per cent from 2002.

But the Government may be in danger of losing its pro-poor focus. "While the pro-poor nature of economic growth in Vietnam over the last decade provides good reason to be optimistic, there are also clear signs that development is becoming less inclusive," the World Bank warns in this year's Vietnam Development Report.

Vietnam's programme to alleviate poverty has been less successful in remote areas than in urban centres, and among ethnic minorities, who make up about 13 per cent of the population and have a higher than average birth rate.

Official corruption and abuse of power at all levels is common. As business leaders in Vietnam become more influential in politics and government, there is a growing risk of crony capitalism emerging - as it did in Indonesia and other East Asian countries.

The Vietnamese Government is wary of freeing the economy completely to spark competitive growth, partly because it fears worsening inequality, but also because it wants to maintain its grip on economic power.

Government spending accounts for almost a fifth of Vietnam's GDP. There are nearly 5000 state-owned firms, which get priority in loans and land from from the State.

As a result, unpaid credits have accumulated to a level that some foreign economists are now warning could cripple the state-dominated banking system.
Byron
Anyone here think Vietnam's economy will end soon like the author of the article above says?
Nam Quoc Son Ha
Where did he say that? And why would Vietnamese economy end soon?
Byron
Read below.

Summary

-Government might become too cocky and use the money to boost other aspects instead of focusing on reducing poverty.

-Government is too corrupt and may not allow enough economic freedoms for business to prosper.

-unpaid credit may cripple bank system.

QUOTE
Will this egalitarian success story continue? A World Bank projection of Vietnam's household poverty rate puts it at 21 per cent by 2010, down by 8 per cent from 2002.

But the Government may be in danger of losing its pro-poor focus. "While the pro-poor nature of economic growth in Vietnam over the last decade provides good reason to be optimistic, there are also clear signs that development is becoming less inclusive," the World Bank warns in this year's Vietnam Development Report.

Vietnam's programme to alleviate poverty has been less successful in remote areas than in urban centres, and among ethnic minorities, who make up about 13 per cent of the population and have a higher than average birth rate.

Official corruption and abuse of power at all levels is common. As business leaders in Vietnam become more influential in politics and government, there is a growing risk of crony capitalism emerging - as it did in Indonesia and other East Asian countries.

The Vietnamese Government is wary of freeing the economy completely to spark competitive growth, partly because it fears worsening inequality, but also because it wants to maintain its grip on economic power.

Government spending accounts for almost a fifth of Vietnam's GDP. There are nearly 5000 state-owned firms, which get priority in loans and land from from the State.

As a result, unpaid credits have accumulated to a level that some foreign economists are now warning could cripple the state-dominated banking system.
Nam Quoc Son Ha
Yes they will be a problem but they can be fixed.

QUOTE
Government might become too cocky and use the money to boost other aspects instead of focusing on reducing poverty.


Well let's hope they won't. Using money to boost other aspects, such as infrastructure and public facilities is not necessarily a bad thing.

QUOTE
Government is too corrupt and may not allow enough economic freedoms for business to prosper.


I believe the government is reforming, the pace and the determination is uncertain.

QUOTE
unpaid credit may cripple bank system.


Could be a problem there. However, the worst scenario is a recession
Johannjs
QUOTE
Michael Richardson: Vietnam miracle may be near

Will this egalitarian success story continue? A World Bank projection of Vietnam's household poverty rate puts it at 21 per cent by 2010, down by 8 per cent from 2002.

But the Government may be in danger of losing its pro-poor focus. "While the pro-poor nature of economic growth in Vietnam over the last decade provides good reason to be optimistic, there are also clear signs that development is becoming less inclusive," the World Bank warns in this year's Vietnam Development Report.

Vietnam's programme to alleviate poverty has been less successful in remote areas than in urban centres, and among ethnic minorities, who make up about 13 per cent of the population and have a higher than average birth rate.

Official corruption and abuse of power at all levels is common. As business leaders in Vietnam become more influential in politics and government, there is a growing risk of crony capitalism emerging - as it did in Indonesia and other East Asian countries.

The Vietnamese Government is wary of freeing the economy completely to spark competitive growth, partly because it fears worsening inequality, but also because it wants to maintain its grip on economic power.

Government spending accounts for almost a fifth of Vietnam's GDP. There are nearly 5000 state-owned firms, which get priority in loans and land from from the State.

As a result, unpaid credits have accumulated to a level that some foreign economists are now warning could cripple the state-dominated banking system.

Michael Richardson is not Greenspan! "his" analysis is based only on a warning by the World Bank towards 2010 on could-be conditions. He's contradictory, and eventually has gone completely off-track with his last mention about unpaid credits. Until 2003 Vietnam has used only less than 50% of all ODA (Official Development Assistance fundings) disbursements...

This is his first "analysis" he made for the Asia-Pacific zone. Not a good start.

You're always worrying about something, aren't you!?
Nam Quoc Son Ha
Well Byron is the perenial pessimist. icon_rolleyes.gif
Johannjs
For the period 1993-2003 Vietnam could have boosted more on infrastructure, but Vietnam was cautious not to go too fast and possibly get out of control. Banks politics are also changing right now. Things will be clearer by end of 2004.
Made in China
Because Vietnam is Communist.

Note: I am from Hong Kong.
Byron
QUOTE (Made in China @ Jul 5 2004, 08:35 PM)
Because Vietnam is Communist.

Note: I am from Hong Kong.

Hong Kong is now part of the PRC and the PRC are communist. lol
Nam Quoc Son Ha
QUOTE (Made in China @ Jul 5 2004, 08:35 PM)
Because Vietnam is Communist.

Note: I am from Hong Kong.

And China isn't? Another Chinese BS trash talking.

QUOTE
For the period 1993-2003 Vietnam could have boosted more on infrastructure, but Vietnam was cautious not to go too fast and possibly get out of control. Banks politics are also changing right now. Things will be clearer by end of 2004.


I agree with you.

And you Made In China kid, don't talk economics when you know jack $hit. I'm not studying Commerce at uni for no reason you know.
Made in China
How did PRC get in this?

I am from Hong Kong . . . Capitalist, Far cry from Communist PRC.

Somehow, everything you say have to bash PRC.

I just simply noted Vietnam was Communist, I didn't bash.
Nam Quoc Son Ha
QUOTE (Made in China @ Jul 5 2004, 08:38 PM)
How did PRC get in this?

I am from Hong Kong . . . Capitalist, Far cry from Communist PRC.

Somehow, everything you say have to bash PRC.

I just simply noted Vietnam was Communist, I didn't bash.

And you blame Communism for the problem? Do you have any knowledge regarding history and politics? confused.gif
Made in China
heh, Why are you offended when I say "Vietnam is Communist"

Somehow, you must turn that harmless comment (which is TRUE) into a China bashing. icon_rolleyes.gif
Nam Quoc Son Ha
QUOTE (Made in China @ Jul 5 2004, 08:45 PM)
heh, Why are you offended when I say "Vietnam is Communist"

Somehow, you must turn that harmless comment (which is TRUE) into a China bashing. icon_rolleyes.gif

No I'm not offended. I'm trying to reform your belief about Communism.

Look at India, Indonesia and so many other "Democratic" states. They're as messy as hell.

The point is Democracy can just be as bad as Communism.
Johannjs
Vietnam is "communist". With more freedom of speech (but no one in the country is looking for conflict). As seen from Hong Kong, more revolutionary, it's not easy to conceive?

Vietnam is above all a smaller country, easier to steer. It's also exporting food... to China. Strange, hey? No urgent problems.
Made in China
No Communist state every truly succeeded, Soviets collasped, Cuba and North Korea are still stuck in "Cold War" era, while China and Vietnam's are not growing at its full potential capacity.

If Vietnam were Capitalist, then Vietnam should beyound par Thailand, which has over double Vietnam GDP and 3 times the GDP per capita ($7,400 vs. $2,500)

Vietnam can grow much faster if it wasn't under a Communist state, Vietnam can expect to go beyound THailand, and Malaysia to become Economic powerhouse in SEA.
Nam Quoc Son Ha
QUOTE (Made in China @ Jul 5 2004, 09:01 PM)
No Communist state every truly succeeded, Soviets collasped, Cuba and North Korea are still stuck in "Cold War" era, while China and Vietnam's are not growing at its full potential capacity.

If Vietnam were Capitalist, then Vietnam should beyound par Thailand, which has over double Vietnam GDP and 3 times the GDP per capita ($7,400 vs. $2,500)

Vietnam can grow much faster if it wasn't under a Communist state, Vietnam can expect to go beyound THailand, and Malaysia to become Economic powerhouse in SEA.

Yes I agree that Communist states dont succeed. But hadn't for the imperialism of the French and the Americans, Vietnam wouldn't have been a Communist state in the first place. Ho Chi Minh asked for American assistance, they rejected him and instead aided the French. He had no option but to turn to China and Russia.

Vietnam could have been successful with Communism in idealogy but Capitalism inpractice like the current situation.

Don't expect too much from Vietnam for the moment. Remember that Vietnam was ravaged by war and colonialism for 150 years and just recently had embargoes against it lifted in 1994. Give Vietnam another 20 years and I believe Vietnam will surpass Thailand and the minnow Malaysia.
blank book
@Made In China


You should have backed up your "Because Vietnam is communist" statement with what you just said, instead of just posting a one liner like that.
Johannjs
Thailand vs Vietnam is no viable comparison.

In short:
  • Thailand is a prostitute (sorry, no offence! that's an easy-to-understand image). Vietnam was victorious and set as an example for many oppressed countries, like Algeria, Cuba, etc... No need to go back in time now, anyway.
  • Vietnam's problem of image as a communist-led country will take a little time to change. It's not easy to reform the Vietnamese Communist Party because it has a big brother which is communist at its door...
  • US + GB military and Vietnam military forces are now working together in the fight against global terrorism.
  • In the early 50's, the US were prepared to take over Vietnam, long before French troops were defeated at Dien Bien Phu.
  • In the early 60's, France was opposed to US War in Vietnam. It even supported the struggle of small countries for their independence. In order to understand the change in French politics during the Cold War, you can read this:

    A short history of Franco-US discord
Bchung
QUOTE (Made in China @ Jul 5 2004, 09:01 PM)
No Communist state every truly succeeded, Soviets collasped, Cuba and North Korea are still stuck in  "Cold War" era, while China and Vietnam's are not growing at its full potential capacity.

If Vietnam were Capitalist, then Vietnam should beyound par Thailand, which has over double Vietnam GDP and 3 times the GDP per capita ($7,400 vs. $2,500)

Vietnam can grow much faster if it wasn't under a Communist state, Vietnam can expect to go beyound THailand, and Malaysia to become Economic powerhouse in SEA.

naive.

IF vietnam and CHINA does grow on its full capacity it could be easy, at the same time the risk of not able to catch up in other areas, and not able to control it (that leads it to get out ot hand) also increases.

taking step by step to secceed its better than being a dumb @$$, that just charge charge charge chaarge. . Better be safe the sorry.

Communism will not work, simply its just a fairy tale. Same with democracy, democracy was designed, to stop their gov't from doing things their people disagree, which also failed. One recent example would be the brits, and many more who supported america in G war 2. England had 70% of people opposed to the war, and yet did it change anything?

so far the only thing i see that is working is captialism. maybe if communism drop its anti captialist idealogy(which they are doing now) and mix with captialism it will work?

I think another problem with vietnam, is that its used to be quite dependent on USSR (correct me if i am wrong) if this is the case, when USSR started to fall, vietnam followed it.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.